Ship Type Limit Per Team

[NeverSuffer]

I believe that each team should only have so many slots of certain ship types to make sure that the match actually happens in a sensible way. So many matches literally EVERY SINGLE player on a team will go Gunship- anyone NOT playing a Gunship just gets executed if they try to play the match. In these matches you end up with both sides playing gunship or people who don't play gunship just feeding. It should be something like this-

Gunship Team Limit: 2
Bomber Team Limit: 2
Scout Team Limit: Unlimited
Fighter Team Limit: Unlimited

Maybe there should be a limit difference between larger player counts and smaller counts but you get the idea- I'm suggesting the concept not nailing down every detail. And yes I know this mode gets ignored and this won't likely be looked at but I still love Sniper Wars- I MEAN GSF. 

This setup will also help the mode feel like an actual Star Wars game. Remember in the battle of Yavin when all of the Sniper ships flew out? No? Remember the battle of Naboo when all of the Sniper ships flew out? No? Remember the battle of Scarif... the snipers? Not that either? How about at Endor! Oh yeah when all the Sniper Ships.... dang none there either. Lore wise mass snipers is silly... gameplay wise the mass snipers is laughable and incredibly boring- I hate being forced into a gunship. 

[DakhathKilrathi]

This isn't a new discussion, but because I hate myself I'm going to rehash my position on it. But summarized. 

GSF is not a flight sim. GSF is an arcade shooter in space. Arcade shooters have snipers. If you don't want to play one, you do not have to. If the number is limited per team, bad players might take up slots and refuse to swap. That would be bad. 

GSF lets you swap ships to deal with what you're seeing. That is good. 

Meta doesn't favor gunships against a competent player and/or team outside of a couple of maps, and even then. They crumple quickly under pressure in the missile meta. 

It seems like this might be a struggle for you since you feel forced into a gunship. Allow me to offer a suggestion: 
 

Quote

When facing a gunship line, watch your cooldowns and approach.

This is really only a TDM tactic, but it's not hard to counter. Don't, under any circumstances, charge a gunship line from the front. Plan your route, grab powerups on your way, and circle around behind the gunship line. Save your cooldowns until you're in the fight, and know your escape route ahead of time.

By doing it this way, you force the gunships on the enemy team to move, or you kill them. Even if you can't kill them, you made them stop shooting, and that's a contribution. If this doesn't work, look at team compositions. If your team doesn't have a decent gunship, consider filling the role.

Gunships serve a purpose just like every other ship type. You suggested limiting bombers too for some reason but then only complained about gunships so I'm a little confused there. 

Anyway. Yeah. Gunships fine. GSF not flight sim. The more gunships there are, the more free targets for me to blow up in TDM, so I'm always happy to see more. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by DakhathKilrathi

[Ramalina]

20 hours ago, NeverSuffer said:

 literally EVERY SINGLE player on a team will go Gunship-

It's been at least six years since I've seen that, and that was on a community organized theme night.

 

But yes, wild exaggeration aside, it can be really rough to fly against 4 or 5 decent gunships, or even just one truly top notch gunship, if you don't know what you're doing.

So learn what to do, by reading guides, asking questions, checking out Despon's GSF School youtube channel, and then of course . . .  practicing.

[NeverSuffer]

3 hours ago, Ramalina said:

It's been at least six years since I've seen that, and that was on a community organized theme night.

 

But yes, wild exaggeration aside, it can be really rough to fly against 4 or 5 decent gunships, or even just one truly top notch gunship, if you don't know what you're doing.

So learn what to do, by reading guides, asking questions, checking out Despon's GSF School youtube channel, and then of course . . .  practicing.

This happened in a few matches last night and people kept dropping from my team in frustration- I don't actually have an issue with killing gunships and I do decent in GSF. Just had a 17K 4D match tonight with a balanced match (in terms of ship assortment)- fighter can be certainly be OP too. The reason I feel limits would help is to reduce the effectiveness of tactics that make the game not play the way it should. For example- I have a screenshot of an arena where I was healing and all 3 of my teamies were also healers. The match was a total joke and did not play the way an arena should with nobody going below like 75-80% HP until acid. What I am suggesting is stacking gunships or bombers is sort of the same thing- it's frustrating and the game doesn't play out well. The match turns into a stand off, a turtle war, or a one-sided slaughter. 

 

20 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

Gunships serve a purpose just like every other ship type. You suggested limiting bombers too for some reason but then only complained about gunships so I'm a little confused there. 

I totally agree-  I was a little frustrated when I wrote the original post after a few matches and stacking gunships felt a little abusive; the games were just so dumb because it turned into both teams sitting way back and just sniping anyone who wanted to do anything else. I had a match tonight where 5 of the enemy team were gunships and we tried to coordinate pushing them out but it was just a lost cause. Anytime anyone tried to maneuver to kill one you just get sniped by the other 4. There are other things that need some work like getting 1 shot by a gunship and THEN seeing it charge up the shot that killed you but I doubt it's really a priority in 2023. 

 

[catsi]

Im with Riia on this one theres way too many problems with limiting ship types to 1-2 a match. not the least of which is who gets to fly them

 

what priority do you assign? first come first serve? number of matches flown across legacy or account? what do you do when one player only has a gunship or bomber on their bar because they love that ship type but only have a few 100 matches under their belt?

 

things get messy enough as it is without a lockout of that type. the ability of a couple good players getting into a gunship t challenge a gunship wall in gunship chess is sorely needed sometimes and to have to beg some poor new player to SD so you can jump on one would really be a serious mess for the game

 

the best bet is to help people learn how to confront gunships and how and when to take cover so they dont become targets dyring a round of  gynship chess

[NeverSuffer]

8 hours ago, catsi said:

what priority do you assign? first come first serve? number of matches flown across legacy or account? what do you do when one player only has a gunship or bomber on their bar because they love that ship type but only have a few 100 matches under their belt?

It would probably require a little work to set it up but I don't think it would be radical; it could be an interface overhaul where slot 1 is always scout, 2 is always fighter, 3 is always bomber, and 4 is always gunship- doesn't have to be exactly this. Many class based games are like this- if someone else picks Blackwidow in Overwatch I am not also able to play Blackwidow. I'm really just throwing my opinion out there- I love GSF even with the nonsense that happens sometimes.

[SoyElSenado]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:13 AM, DakhathKilrathi said:

GSF lets you swap ships to deal with what you're seeing. That is good. 

Yeah this. Changing your ship choices once you see what the enemy team is doing/is strong at is one of the most fun things about gsf. 
 

On 11/30/2023 at 5:13 AM, DakhathKilrathi said:

If the number is limited per team, bad players might take up slots and refuse to swap. That would be bad. 

Another issue with this is newer/less experienced gsf players will 100% experience toxicity when they are just trying to learn a particular ship but are holding one of the slots from a “good” player. Especially if the team is losing, everyone will gang up and pressure the person to give the gunship/strike fighter/whatever up to the better player.

[sharpenedstick]

While there are a lot of valid GSF complaints, this one is just a L2P issue.

Now, L2P is not an insult here. One of the great things about GSF is that it's a game where skill matters, which means that players can grow in the game if they put in the time. This is not necessarily true in a lot of other MMO content. And even though GSF has a strong physical dexterity component, it's entirely possible to contribute even if that isn't something you're good at. A well played support bomber can be a huge boon to a team, and requires little-to-no twitch skills.

That being said, I wouldn't be sad at all if they removed the damage boost from TDM games. I refuse to use it myself, and I don't see a ton of value in having it in the game.

Edited December 5, 2023 by sharpenedstick

[RaithHarth]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:51 AM, NeverSuffer said:

I believe that each team should only have so many slots of certain ship types to make sure that the match actually happens in a sensible way. So many matches literally EVERY SINGLE player on a team will go Gunship- anyone NOT playing a Gunship just gets executed if they try to play the match. In these matches you end up with both sides playing gunship or people who don't play gunship just feeding. It should be something like this-

Gunship Team Limit: 2
Bomber Team Limit: 2
Scout Team Limit: Unlimited
Fighter Team Limit: Unlimited

Maybe there should be a limit difference between larger player counts and smaller counts but you get the idea- I'm suggesting the concept not nailing down every detail. And yes I know this mode gets ignored and this won't likely be looked at but I still love Sniper Wars- I MEAN GSF. 

This setup will also help the mode feel like an actual Star Wars game. Remember in the battle of Yavin when all of the Sniper ships flew out? No? Remember the battle of Naboo when all of the Sniper ships flew out? No? Remember the battle of Scarif... the snipers? Not that either? How about at Endor! Oh yeah when all the Sniper Ships.... dang none there either. Lore wise mass snipers is silly... gameplay wise the mass snipers is laughable and incredibly boring- I hate being forced into a gunship. 

I agree with this, also the opposition camping in our spawn area isn't really helping matters either. Didn't our warships used to fire on them if they got too close? Whatever happened to that?

[DakhathKilrathi]

2 hours ago, RaithHarth said:

I agree with this, also the opposition camping in our spawn area isn't really helping matters either. Didn't our warships used to fire on them if they got too close? Whatever happened to that?

It changed a decade ago. That was true in TDM for exactly one full patch when GSF left early access. Teams abused it by getting an early lead then hiding near their cap ships. Removing it was a good and necessary change. That was also the same patch where they added a third spawn point. Turns out you can get around spawn camping by picking the one not being swarmed. Check your map! 

[RaithHarth]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:08 AM, DakhathKilrathi said:

It changed a decade ago. That was true in TDM for exactly one full patch when GSF left early access. Teams abused it by getting an early lead then hiding near their cap ships. Removing it was a good and necessary change. That was also the same patch where they added a third spawn point. Turns out you can get around spawn camping by picking the one not being swarmed. Check your map! 

I was getting attacked right after I respawned, how exactly is this making the game better?

[DakhathKilrathi]

5 hours ago, RaithHarth said:

I was getting attacked right after I respawned, how exactly is this making the game better?

You know you can choose one of the other spawn points, right? 

It makes the game better because it was being abused when it was a thing. Domination games still have it because you can't abuse it to win in that game mode, but in TDM the other team is the objective. What teams would do is get a lead and then sit on their capital ships where it was impossible for most players to get to them and wait out the clock instead of playing. Do you really think that's preferable? 

At least with spawn camping you can pick a different spawn point. There was nothing you could reliably do about teams hiding at spawn, which is why they changed it.

Edited December 30, 2023 by DakhathKilrathi