Coming 7.4 GTN changes on the PTS

[JakRoanin]

2 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

Both are things that people worked to get in game.  BS removing them/deleting them amount to the same thing fundamentally.  Technically they can do it because they own the game but the loss of players would shut the game down, more than likely.   I know personally, I would never be able to trust them to not do it again.  You obviously don’t understand most of the playerbase so I’m assuming that you would have no problem if they did wipe all your characters and money.  The majority of the playerbase would not stand for that.   

 

1 hour ago, DreadzKaiser said:

 

it's the maximum number you can post for, thus has the highest progressive tax hit while still being nice round numbers so it's easy to work with

 

the numbers themselves don't matter, it's the logic behind the math. replace 3billion with 1 million if it's easier

 

1 hour ago, casirabit said:

To you, they are two different things, but for some, they are not the same things.  They should never remove something that was gotten correctly, whether it is a character or credits.

Okay, 1. Would I like them wiping my measly 10 PC's? No, but if they did it so the game could get better, I could remake them happily.

2. I agree that if I post a dye for 100K and get less than 75% yes, I'd get mad. But the tax rate isn't so high it won't give us any profit. Especially if they revive crafting somehow.

3. No they shouldn't remove things gotten correctly! I agree. However, to call anything other than the rarest items in this game worth even close to 1 Bil is ludicrous. The GTN has been nothing but Wolves of Wall Street for years! And the rage in this thread is the epitome of plain unreasonable greed.   

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Do you really need 3 bil? Come on why is this such a huge deal in the numbers you all are throwing around? When you talk about anything over ten million you all sound ridiculous it's not real money!

3 billion is pocket change these days. I made 4 billion selling dyes over the weekend. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

3 billion is pocket change these days. I made 4 billion selling dyes over the weekend. 

That's my point, the fact that 3 billion is considered 'pocket change' is why these changes are good! IDK if you made that much from a special retired schematic or something but Crafted Dyes really shouldn't be worth that much. It's not right.

[Darcmoon]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

 

 

Okay, 1. Would I like them wiping my measly 10 PC's? No, but if they did it so the game could get better, I could remake them happily.

2. I agree that if I post a dye for 100K and get less than 75% yes, I'd get mad. But the tax rate isn't so high it won't give us any profit. Especially if they revive crafting somehow.

3. No they shouldn't remove things gotten correctly! I agree. However, to call anything other than the rarest items in this game worth even close to 1 Bil is ludicrous. The GTN has been nothing but Wolves of Wall Street for years! And the rage in this thread is the epitome of plain unreasonable greed.   

1. If they wiped my characters or credits I would quit.  It wouldn’t matter if it was so the game could get better.  I’m willing to bet the majority of players would agree with me. 
 

2. I kinda doubt they will revive crafting.  Don’t get me wrong, I’d be happy if they do. They launched 7.0 without updating it and said it would come later.  We are still waiting on it and other things they promised. 
 

3. what something is worth changes depending on the person.  This is true in real life and in the game.  Calling the ‘rage’ in the thread greed is like me saying anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot.  You are applying a motive to people that can’t be backed up. (Just to be clear, I don’t think anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot.  I was using it as an example.)

[TrixxieTriss]

10 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

That's my point, the fact that 3 billion is considered 'pocket change' is why these changes are good! IDK if you made that much from a special retired schematic or something but Crafted Dyes really shouldn't be worth that much. It's not right.

I never said they were worth that much. And how do you know they were only “crafted” dyes? I could have sold CM dyes too. 

The problem with your idea is when you start taking away people’s credits, large amounts of players will leave the game. Its not something any sane dev or producer should consider risk doing with a game that is mostly financially supported by Barbie type players who spend real cash doing so.  

I’m not sure how many more times you have to be told by just about every player posting, that taking players credits like you’re suggesting would shutter the game in months as everyone abandons it. So can you please drop it?

As far as 3 Billion being pocket change, it’s already happened & there is nothing to be done about it. That’s what happens when you let runaway hyper inflation continue for years. I tried warning BioWare 4 years ago that it would happen if they didn’t address it.  

[JakRoanin]

No, I'm not saying people who disagree with me is an idiot. But I'll call it greed. I craft dyes whenever I need a fast infusion of credits. They're really the only things worth the time. But my practice is to go *at least* a couple of thousand below the cheapest because I want people who don't have 160+Million (me at this time) to have a shot at looking their best. What people are discussing here is greed. Nobody needs 4 billion credits to enjoy all the pretties.

 

[JakRoanin]

3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I never said they were worth that much. And how do you know they were only “crafted” dyes? I could have sold CM dyes too. 

The problem with your idea is when you start taking away people’s credits, large amounts of players will leave the game. Its not something any sane dev or producer should consider risk doing with a game that is mostly financially supported by Barbie type players who spend real cash doing so.  

I’m not sure how many more times you have to be told by just about every player posting, that taking players credits like you’re suggesting would shutter the game in months as everyone abandons it. So can you please drop it?

As far as 3 Billion being pocket change, it’s already happened & there is nothing to be done about it. That’s what happens when you let runaway hyper inflation continue for years. I tried warning BioWare 4 years ago that it would happen if they didn’t address it.  

I never said they should wipe out the credits in this thread. I said that years ago. I am saying these taxes are GOOD!

[TrixxieTriss]

7 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

No, I'm not saying people who disagree with me is an idiot. But I'll call it greed. I craft dyes whenever I need a fast infusion of credits. They're really the only things worth the time. But my practice is to go *at least* a couple of thousand below the cheapest because I want people who don't have 160+Million (me at this time) to have a shot at looking their best. What people are discussing here is greed. Nobody needs 4 billion credits to enjoy all the pretties.

 

Why are you undercutting anyone at all? Why can’t you just list it at the lowest current price or even the highest?
Let the market decide the price people pay instead of undercutting people.

People only undercut to snake someone else’s sales. And people doing it by large amounts like you, only do that to appeal to people looking for a bargain. If you have to undercut, then be man enough to just do it by 1 credits instead of driving everyone else’s profit margins down. 

Lastly, you’re not being altruistic offering cheaper dyes. If people want cheap dyes, then they can just as easily craft them themselves. You don’t have to supply them cheap just because they’re too lazy to do the work.

[JakRoanin]

Maybe I don't have to provide cheaper anything but I want to for people who are F2P and focused on other aspects of the game like OPS or your own beloved PvP. Why bother to have a market at all if everyone crafts everything for themselves. It's called being nice!

I also don't mind paying to give stuff away!

Edited November 8, 2023 by JakRoanin

[Darcmoon]

11 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

No, I'm not saying people who disagree with me is an idiot. But I'll call it greed. I craft dyes whenever I need a fast infusion of credits. They're really the only things worth the time. But my practice is to go *at least* a couple of thousand below the cheapest because I want people who don't have 160+Million (me at this time) to have a shot at looking their best. What people are discussing here is greed. Nobody needs 4 billion credits to enjoy all the pretties.

 

I never said you were calling them idiots.  Reread what I posted.  Both @TrixxieTriss and I have argued that the non refundable fees are bad. You could call that rage.  I was accused of panicking at one point.  It’s not greed and it wasn’t/isn’t panicking.  That’s assuming that you know exactly why someone is against some or all of this revamp. 

[JakRoanin]

I wasn't referring to you or TrixxieTriss at all. I'm sorry if you thought I was. I wasn't referring to any one specific post here. However, it is a lot of rage, and I still say that the people so angry are driven by greed.

[DWho]

30 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Why are you undercutting anyone at all?

Because lots of things are way overpriced on the GTN and the people buying up everyone else's stuff and relisting are gouging. Undercutting by 1 credit is a d*** move. At least have the courage to undercut by as much as you can afford, otherwise you are just feeding the problem.

[JakRoanin]

Also, if I want to make something cheaper 1 credit isn't it! 

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, DWho said:

Because lots of things are way overpriced on the GTN and the people buying up everyone else's stuff and relisting are gouging. Undercutting by 1 credit is a d*** move. At least have the courage to undercut by as much as you can afford, otherwise you are just feeding the problem.

Undercutting at all is a d*** move unless an item is so ridiculously over priced that it won’t sell at that price. But that’s not what he said he did.

He said his practice was to undercut prices by at least a few thousand. Which is really no different to making it 1 credit to be the cheapest.

He’s not doing it to make things cheaper for people, he does it to make sure his items sell. My point was, if you are going to undercut (which I don’t usually support) is to make it 1 credit so it doesn’t drive everyone’s profit into the ground. They’ll still be the cheapest & people who don’t want to support undercutters will just buy the other items without the undercutting driving prices down too much.

But it wont really matter going forward because the devs are building in incentives for everyone to undercut or risk losing credits for just listing something & because the GTN will default to only showing the cheapest items. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Spikanor]

6 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Maybe I don't have to provide cheaper anything but I want to for people who are F2P and focused on other aspects of the game like OPS or your own beloved PvP.

you know F2P status players have the worst of the worst restrictions there are right in this game.

a F2P status player cant never run ops since thats one of the restrictions there cant do since only sub status players can do it so on that point you are wrong.

and for PVP there never ever have a chance at all since there are fighting against lvl 80 other players with there max gear vs lvl 60 what is the max level a F2P player can get so thats a big diffrends all and since there never can reach higher at all since thats also one of the restrictions this game has for F2P status players so PVP is something there also not going to like.

[Toraak]

4 hours ago, Spikanor said:

you know F2P status players have the worst of the worst restrictions there are right in this game.

a F2P status player cant never run ops since thats one of the restrictions there cant do since only sub status players can do it so on that point you are wrong.

and for PVP there never ever have a chance at all since there are fighting against lvl 80 other players with there max gear vs lvl 60 what is the max level a F2P player can get so thats a big diffrends all and since there never can reach higher at all since thats also one of the restrictions this game has for F2P status players so PVP is something there also not going to like.

A true F2P account can't fight against level 80's in PvP, because they can't get to level 80 without being preferred. The bracket they would max out with would be Midbies which would put them fighting a level 79 maximum. This is the same as everyone else that is in that bracket.

[JakRoanin]

First of all, paying over 100,000 for a crafted dye is ridiculous! But I know undercutting that much is toxic so I don't do it. Second, sometimes my items don't sell so, there goes that theory. Third, its fake money!

[Spikanor]

29 minutes ago, Toraak said:

A true F2P account can't fight against level 80's in PvP, because they can't get to level 80 without being preferred. The bracket they would max out with would be Midbies which would put them fighting a level 79 maximum. This is the same as everyone else that is in that bracket.

never know that there was a system like that in the first place.

i think you mean become sub and not preferred. since only sub players get the new max level increase and not the F2P or preferred status players. the only way preferred players can reach lvl 80 is if there have become sub all after the last expension that means the 7.0 in this case.

still the point is clear that supporting the F2P players what he suggest is the worst thing to do since there are a lot of restrictions there need to deal with and i see then not going to chance that at all to make it easyer for that group of players.

[Toraak]

24 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

never know that there was a system like that in the first place.

i think you mean become sub and not preferred. since only sub players get the new max level increase and not the F2P or preferred status players. the only way preferred players can reach lvl 80 is if there have become sub all after the last expension that means the 7.0 in this case.

still the point is clear that supporting the F2P players what he suggest is the worst thing to do since there are a lot of restrictions there need to deal with and i see then not going to chance that at all to make it easyer for that group of players.

Incorrect. While subbing and later canceling your sub will make you preferred, so will spending $5 from buying CC's.  

 

A preferred player (which is one that spends any $ on the game whether sub or CC purchase) may be able to hit 80 if they subscribed, may be able to do level 80 wz's only if they subscribed when the level cap was 80.

 

A true F2P account has a level cap to it. I'm not sure exactly what the current cap is, however it's 65-70ish. So any true F2P account can not enter a warzone that has any level 80's in it because the PvP bracket won't allow for it.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Toraak

[DreadzKaiser]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

First of all, paying over 100,000 for a crafted dye is ridiculous! But I know undercutting that much is toxic so I don't do it. Second, sometimes my items don't sell so, there goes that theory. Third, its fake money!

100,000 is basically 0

I sell craftable dyes for 1,000,000. 

they are hard to sell at that price because people undercut that market so hard that it can drive down to the 300,000 range pretty easily, but they eventually sell for 1 mil. I could get more consistent sales by dropping price, but I stick at 1 mil because I know they eventually will sell at that.

not gonna be able to do this in 7.4

1 mil is basically 0 to a lot of players too

[Spikanor]

32 minutes ago, Toraak said:

A true F2P account has a level cap to it. I'm not sure exactly what the current cap is, however it's 65-70ish.

nope a true F2P account has a level cap from 60 still since if you look on the main page you see what is free to play and what is sub only contant.

here is link: https://www.swtor.com/free

there storyline limit for a F2P account is shadow of raven and it also tells the level cap is 60 so notting has been chance at all for a really long time with that.

if you buy cartal coins for the first time on a F2P you become preferred status with the same restrictions as a F2P account in most case like story and level cap will still be lvl 60 and shadow of raven story.

if you buy sub for the first time and drop later back to preferred status you keep the level cap from the last time there increase it so thats lvl 80 and the story contant will then also be from the last time i think it was 7.3 that the last story contant has been dropt if there drop from sub status to preferred status.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Spikanor

[Toraak]

18 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

nope a true F2P account has a level cap from 60 still since if you look on the main page you see what is free to play and what is sub only contant.

here is link: https://www.swtor.com/free

there storyline limit for a F2P account is shadow of raven and it also tells the level cap is 60 so notting has been chance at all for a really long time with that.

if you buy cartal coins for the first time on a F2P you become preferred status with the same restrictions as a F2P account in most case like story and level cap will still be lvl 60 and shadow of raven story.

if you buy sub for the first time and drop later back to preferred status you keep the level cap from the last time there increase it so thats lvl 80 and the story contant will then also be from the last time i think it was 7.3 that the last story contant has been dropt if there drop from sub status to preferred status.

Again Nothing here isn't what I said. I did say I forgot what the level cap was, so the range I put was a little higher. As for your comment about buying a sub, and unsubscribing later while keeping the level they had when subscribed I already covered that when I said some Preferred my be able to do level 80 PvP. Only those that subscribed for 1 month when 80 was level cap. Someone that bought Cartel coins instead of subscribing however does not get the level increase so not all Preferred are able to do level 80 PvP.

 

Regardless my point was a F2P account can not go into a level 80 warzone, and Level 80's can't go into the middle PvP bracket. Nothing you said in your last post says I was wrong whatsoever.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Toraak

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

First of all, paying over 100,000 for a crafted dye is ridiculous! But I know undercutting that much is toxic so I don't do it. Second, sometimes my items don't sell so, there goes that theory. Third, its fake money!

The overwhelming amount of dye types are selling well above 100,000 due to inflation. Only some secondary & primary coloured dyes are selling below 100,000. The average crafted dye price in my sales spreadsheet is 437,000. That’s including every crafted dye type up to 1 million credits.
Sales over 1 million are vanity sales from whales or inexperienced traders, so I didn’t include them in my averaging. 

[Spikanor]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Again Nothing here isn't what I said. I did say I forgot what the level cap was, so the range I put was a little higher. As for your comment about buying a sub, and unsubscribing later while keeping the level they had when subscribed I already covered that when I said some Preferred my be able to do level 80 PvP. Only those that subscribed for 1 month when 80 was level cap. Someone that bought Cartel coins instead of subscribing however does not get the level increase so not all Preferred are able to do level 80 PvP.

 

Regardless my point was a F2P account can not go into a level 80 warzone, and Level 80's can't go into the middle PvP bracket. Nothing you said in your last post says I was wrong whatsoever.

in the end his idea to help the F2P account players with this like make things cheaper is the worst thing you can do in the end since there have the worst restrictions at all in this game so that there can play PVP or ops has no use at all what he is doing.

[JakRoanin]

4 hours ago, DreadzKaiser said:

100,000 is basically 0

I sell craftable dyes for 1,000,000. 

they are hard to sell at that price because people undercut that market so hard that it can drive down to the 300,000 range pretty easily, but they eventually sell for 1 mil. I could get more consistent sales by dropping price, but I stick at 1 mil because I know they eventually will sell at that.

not gonna be able to do this in 7.4

1 mil is basically 0 to a lot of players too

I said I don't undercut that much. But 7.4 is a great thing for people who aren't billionaires!