The Dev's need to Address PVP in the Upcoming Livestream

[SentinalMasterWW]

PVP in its current state is an unbalanced broken mode. Through Faults of Neglect, the Dev's have killed off a vast majority of the Playerbase.

There are so many issues plaguing this mode right now, that is driving players off. 

The dev's cannot sit on PVP and pretend everything is fine, they need to say something about PVP in the Livestream they have planned. 

PVP Seasons in its Current State Does not Work, and Will not Keep players Interested in PVP 

Here are the Common Issues/Complaints I hear/see about in PVP.

Map Rotation: Players who Q for PVP are getting stuck in the same game mode over and over again. The common one of course is huttball, While there are those who enjoy it. I don't like getting thrown into a huttball match multiple times in a row. If the Dev's can program something that tracks your last game mode played and makes it so your next PVP Pop is not the same mode as the previous match that would help a lot. So for Example, Beat a Quesh huttball, than next time you Q, you are guarantied a mode that is not Huttball.   

Class Balancing: Madness Sorc is the obvious culprit, in its Current State Madness is way to Overtuned, and is a favorite spec for class Stacking. Nowadays its pretty Common to See 3 to maybe 5 Sorcs/Sages on the other team Running Madness. Madness needs to get nerfed in a major way, ever since 7.0 Dropped all it has received is buff after Buff. Its commonly Theorized that Sorcs/Sages are as broken as they are cause its one of the Dev's Favorite Classes. 

I'm just going to Quote @Faltun on why Madness is so broken 

Quote

- Better passive DMG reduction better than any dps specs in the game as a ranged
- Best self heals, most of them built into DMG abilities, or dosent respect GCD, so these self heals come without losing DPS, but if these enormous self heals are not enough they can always go los and use absorb bubble or casting some heals without a cd.
- One of the best mobility
- 2 combat resets, phase walk, big bubble

- Superb control, 5 sec aoe root on 20 sec cd, hard stun on 50 sec cd with new talent, which is reduced by alacrity aka even with the use of polarity shift so its even less than 50 secs. 2 sec root on single target every 9 seconds with minor dps loss.
- One of the best if not the best offensive cd... polarity shift for 15 seconds, which gives 50% speed bonus, some sick alacrity boost 20% i think, make you immune to interrupts, and with the sorc implant 20% bonus dmg to all force dmg. The fun thing in all of this, its cd is short, because with the other basic sorc implant its cd is reduced by the use of force sprint, which you use on cd....

I dont even mention the support\utility part... with pull, bubble, instant hot and castable off heals to help your teammates in a close arena match which is totally unmatched by any other dps specs...

If you want To see how Bad Sorc Spam is nowadays, Here is a Vid Showcassing just how bad it is, and how much of a nightmare it can be fighting Madness Sorcs, Especially for those playing Snipers/Slingers. 

Skank Tanks: Now I really only hear about this regarding Jugs/Guardians, and it is true. The Dev's tried nerfing the DMG but only by like 10%. If they really wanted to Nerf the spec, Nerf the Passive that makes you do more DMG to taunted targets from 50% to 10%. I don't play Guardian/Jug tanks too often, I mainly role PT/VG Tank, but if anyone has more to offer please post. 

Matchmaking/Team Balance: The current Q generally tries to match premades against other premades first, than does premade vs solo should it take too long. However, the Current Q matches Newbie players to Veteran players. Too often in PVP are matches way too one sided, with one side Dominating the other team. The Current System needs to be refined, There will be some matches that are yes, one team is clearly better, but the System needs to match both teams with both good and bad players.

For the Rest I am just going to Quote @Beyrahl from his Post of things that could change for the better 

Quote

• No bolster for augments. Purple aug 14x 144 Endurance, 144 Power, 108 secondary = 2,016 Endurance, 2,016 Power, and 1,512 secondary.  5,544 total stats, gold augments are even more than this with 6,608 total stats. This immediately puts anyone that's not already geared at a large disadvantage. Augments are also extremely expensive for fresh players - not being augmented is a big deal.
• The gearing system is still needlessly complicated, no matter how it's explained the average new player does get confused. This often leads to unoptimized stats as a lot of people don't want to bother with a system they don't understand. Hence, the augments issue is amplified. 
• Secondary stat pools are low, meaning it's very easy to do very little to no damage with unoptimized stats it's more important than ever to at least attempt to have a reasonable critical rate. Surprise this further amplifies the importance of the previous point of failures.
• Dead talents - "Play your way" There are dead talents on every single spec ingame currently and some rather unforgiving selections, even more so on some of the weaker specs at the moment. It's very easy to forego something as important as trauma regulators as an inexperienced PvPer making you die at least 2x more than you probably would with them. This further makes the previous issues more of an issue too, they all compound together. 
• Class buffs - While some may think it's not as important it definitely is and it's a compounding factor, who would have guessed? Class buffs add raw power to your character, 5% Endurance, 5% critical, 10% elemental DR, and so on, those being the more important ones but don't get me wrong every buff is important and they all stack together with previous issues. A lot of new players won't have every buff available and even after the last time they "fixed" the issue, it's still a large issue. Even if you have all story done there are times you may be missing one, without a way to reapply them it's another stacking disadvantage. 
• Lack of a competitive mode.
• Lack of tutorials and a general lack of direction in some maps. OPG is a prime example, most roam the map aimlessly and only want to fight the king of the hill style - which this map could be incredible for if the map wasn't so big and random. While other times you may play objectively and never have to move / fight anyone for the whole entire game. It's not a healthy design and gives players false expectations as to what PvP is like.  

 

There have been multiple posts since 7.3 and the supposed PVP Rework on just how bad PVP is currently. The Dev's have shown little initiative in fixing/Addressing these issues. Even for PVP Seasons since its first inception, they have not asked for Feedback, Every Season I do it myself, because the Dev's dont care about feedback for PVP, its an after thought mode to them. 

The most the Dev's will probably do this Upcoming Stream is just showcase Season 4 Armor and the Deco's and thats it. No Refinement no QOL stuff, just the generic filler for Space Barbie. 

[Lord_Malganus]

 Until an algorithm is coded that actually works with groups and solo'ers in the same Q, trying to improve PvP is a total waste of development time.

 

[krackcommando]

6 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Map Rotation: Players who Q for PVP are getting stuck in the same game mode over and over again. The common one of course is huttball, While there are those who enjoy it.

understandable frustration, but the way the system seems to work is that you get 2-3 of the same map type, and then the next type and the next, and then back again to the first.

I would be interested to learn if this "rotation" is shared by 80s, mids, and lows, or one roto for each queue. but I think you have to be terribly unlucky to get...honestly...more than 2 in a row, but certainly more than 3.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

I am on disability and live alone, and I don't understand how those of you with full-time jobs and families manage to complete it each season, much less when you have the Galactic Seasons on top of it.

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, AbsolutGrndZero said:

I am on disability and live alone, and I don't understand how those of you with full-time jobs and families manage to complete it each season, much less when you have the Galactic Seasons on top of it.

I see you're on Harbinger, which I have no experience on. But on Starforge, I get home from work on a Tuesday ~6pm and complete at least one weekly for arenas and WZs (usually 2 and 1) before I log off at 11 or midnight. I'm not just queuing straight through. I'm watching TV, doing research online, etc.

as I said, I don't know what the situation is on your server, but I see similar complaints from players on SF, and I just smh. really. these are bad players. I'm what you might call a "competent pug." I'm not going to blow anyone out of the water, but I can do basic things that (and I'm not exaggerating here) 80%-90% of the population cannot seem to do.

you don't need to do three weeklies in one week. iunno what ppl are trying to do here. but if you cannot complete the weeklies (at least two of them) in one week, then the problem is in the mirror. at least on SF. I just cannot fathom being unable to complete the arena and WZ weeklies with 6 hours of game time (spread out however you like; i do it in a night).

[Samcuu]

On 10/2/2023 at 3:36 PM, krackcommando said:

you're on Harbinger, which I have no experience on. But on Starforge

Harbinger was a west coast pvp server that doesn't exist anymore. It was merged into satele shan. 

On the topic I only play like a couple nights every few weeks, and I've been finished with the season for several weeks now. Issue is my main activity is pvp so I'll spend 90% of that time in matches. I'll do galactic seasons too but I only do the easy 8 point solo ones, I don't spend time waiting around for groups to form on the 12 point objectives. Galactic seasons runs for like 4 months or more it's extremely easy to get there so when the pvp season is on focus on that more because you don't have as much time. It's probably hard for a casual pvper to finish the season especially if u don't have that much fun pvping, my viewpoint is coming from a place where I would pvp all day even if seasons didn't exist. 

[Lord_Malganus]

5 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

 my viewpoint is coming from a place where I would pvp all day even if seasons didn't exist. 

Ah, those were the days!

[Samcuu]

13 minutes ago, Lord_Malganus said:

Ah, those were the days!

Lol they are dying but not over yet. I'll be on next week to pvp when the pvp season is done 😁👍

[krackcommando]

4 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Harbinger was a west coast pvp server that doesn't exist anymore. It was merged into satele shan

yeah. in my mind i had already translated that to ss. 😄

[Prapcaster]

They probably won't even address it at all. What's most likely gonna happen is anyone who says pvp will get timed out or banned for the stream. It'll be another R4 incident. 

[CadeStive]

27 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

They probably won't even address it at all. What's most likely gonna happen is anyone who says pvp will get timed out or banned for the stream. It'll be another R4 incident. 

LMAO you beat me to it. It would be great to have effective communication with them in some shape or form even with PVP. But for the past several years It's been a little bit to almost nothing. 

[JowyyKazza]

Would it be nice if the devs went into great detail about a pvp overhaul? Sure. However I imagine at this point, as it’s been mentioned often on these forums, pvp is a side note and unlikely to receive much in the way of major changes. 
 

I would love some more balancing, a bolster that actually bolsters, especially those with very low sub 300k health , better matchmaking, more map variety, or at least better odds that if you just played a queshball, you don’t immediately get another huttball variant. A lot of what the op speaks about is correct, change is needed, but how long will the people who still pvp regularly wait for it. 

[Jdast]

14 hours ago, Prapcaster said:

They probably won't even address it at all. What's most likely gonna happen is anyone who says pvp will get timed out or banned for the stream. It'll be another R4 incident. 

And this is precisely the reason why the stream should not be live. This is not a personal attack on you or the PvP community. In the past, Team SWTOR presents an agenda at the beginning of not just what they "intend" but what they "will" cover in a particular stream. I have never since I returned in Dec. 2016 after a 3-year break seen them deviate from that agenda -- it is that tightly scripted and controlled.

Which begs the question: Why have it be a livestream at all? If it is not going to be interactive then all it is does is create animosity amongst the particular group which feels neglected. As you correctly observe, the R4 stream did not go well. Jackie (or someone) was monitoring the stream constantly smashing the ban button. Some of that was completely legitimate, but some players just joined the stream, asked about R4 one time, and immediately got banned. Obviously, that left a bad taste in the mouths of many players to the point where Bioware issued a rare semi-apology afterwards.

Broadsword / SWTOR knows what is going to be in 7.4. and what they will cover in the livestream. Jackie made clear that the next livestream is going to cover "7.4 proper" -- which is a pretty clear indication they are not going to address issues outside of the narrow confines of that patch. They will not deviate.

I have no idea if there will be PvP updates in 7.4. If so, I assume they will be covered in the livestream (and should be). If there are not going to be any, however, then it is not just futile, but counterproductive to let the chatroom be spammed by a bunch of: "What about PvP?" questions. They are not going to answer them and making the stream live creates only the false illusion that it is interactive.

It's fine for the OP to push for PvP to be addressed in the upcoming livestream, even understandable, but 7.4 is already set. I'm not saying PvP-ers don't have legitimate concerns, but having Jackie smash the ban button for an hour will annoy all parties concerned. I assume this will also apply to players spamming that chatroom with: "Will there be story content after 7.4?" That is the only question I am interested in and I doubt it will be addressed except in the most vague, cryptic and generic way -- if even that.

Dasty

Edited October 5, 2023 by Jdast
I said Broadstar originally, not Broadsword. Doh!

[krackcommando]

31 minutes ago, Jdast said:

having Jackie smash the ban button for an hour will annoy all parties concerned.

I can't be bothered to sit through the drivel of these Biosword live streams (as you said, it's just planned PR nonsense). but I'm all-in for the anarchy that you want to avoid. let them feel some of the frustration, as it were....

[Prapcaster]

5 hours ago, krackcommando said:

I can't be bothered to sit through the drivel of these Biosword live streams (as you said, it's just planned PR nonsense). but I'm all-in for the anarchy that you want to avoid. let them feel some of the frustration, as it were....

It was pretty funny to see all the content creators get mad at them for it then swtorista like the good lapdog she is said more content was coming

Edited October 5, 2023 by Prapcaster

[Whykara]

I have the feeling that 7.4 is either gonna be really great or a huge disappointment. No inbetween.

[krackcommando]

11 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

It was pretty funny to see all the content creators get mad at them for it then swtorista like the good lapdog she is said more content was coming

she is her own thing. I tried watching her stuff half a dozen times. once or twice just from google hits when I wanted to find out what was new as a returning player. her content delivery is soooo slow and drawn out, I gave up on every single one of her videos that I ever tried to watch. it's quite literally like listening to an elementary teacher explain things to the special ed kid. and the content is actually an absence of content like showing you where the esc key is located on a keyboard.

tbf, I usually stop trying to listen to cease too b/c I can't hear him. 😄

Edited October 5, 2023 by krackcommando

[psycoq]

On 10/3/2023 at 4:04 PM, Samcuu said:

Harbinger was a west coast pvp server that doesn't exist anymore. It was merged into satele shan. 

On the topic I only play like a couple nights every few weeks, and I've been finished with the season for several weeks now. Issue is my main activity is pvp so I'll spend 90% of that time in matches. I'll do galactic seasons too but I only do the easy 8 point solo ones, I don't spend time waiting around for groups to form on the 12 point objectives. Galactic seasons runs for like 4 months or more it's extremely easy to get there so when the pvp season is on focus on that more because you don't have as much time. It's probably hard for a casual pvper to finish the season especially if u don't have that much fun pvping, my viewpoint is coming from a place where I would pvp all day even if seasons didn't exist. 

that's the only reason someone should pvp. they need to get rid of those trash rewards so we get less afkers. pvp for pvp's sake = more pvpers, less afkers/throwers.

[Samcuu]

6 minutes ago, psycoq said:

that's the only reason someone should pvp. they need to get rid of those trash rewards so we get less afkers. pvp for pvp's sake = more pvpers, less afkers/throwers.

I dont mind that they gave us some decent armor sets and decos ect for pvping. But yeah it brought a lot of ppl into wzs/arenas that don't wanna be there, which is an issue for both sides. Wish there was a better solution but idek what u do that this point. 

[psycoq]

12 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

I dont mind that they gave us some decent armor sets and decos ect for pvping. But yeah it brought a lot of ppl into wzs/arenas that don't wanna be there, which is an issue for both sides. Wish there was a better solution but idek what u do that this point. 

*etc

 

i couldn't care less, it's all just useless trash that's not doing anything functionally - except motivating umpteen-million bots to queue and throw/afk.