UnrealXylo Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 It's the main hub area for the game, there's always fun chat happening but nothing is really happening overall movement-wise.. it could be really great for the community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdast Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 This is an unequivocal hard NO from me. 1) This would expand exponentially the ability to grief RP-ers with a lot of noise, flashing lights, etc. 2) People would intentionally be annoying around banks and vendors. If SWTOR wanted to create a separate level on the fleet which was meant exclusively for dueling, I'd be fine with that because I would never go there. It would also mean that anyone on that level is there to duel. Fleet is annoying enough as it is, particularly with General Chat, which I always turn off. Why add to its annoyance? Dasty 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 3 hours ago, UnrealXylo said: it could be really great for the community Mostly because it would finally convince the "don't want to duel" folks (like, say a certain @SteveTheCynic that you might have heard of) to *finally* go into Preferences and check *on* "Auto Ignore Duels". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addictress Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) I have been thinking of this a lot. I think having specific areas where duels are allowed would work. I wouldn't even say a separate level. Maybe certain zones of the cantina or specific zones of certain halls would help prevent griefing around vaults and merchant areas while still spicing up the atmosphere of the overall fleet. Edited August 17, 2023 by Addictress 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 18 hours ago, Jdast said: This is an unequivocal hard NO from me. 1) This would expand exponentially the ability to grief RP-ers with a lot of noise, flashing lights, etc. 2) People would intentionally be annoying around banks and vendors. If SWTOR wanted to create a separate level on the fleet which was meant exclusively for dueling, I'd be fine with that because I would never go there. It would also mean that anyone on that level is there to duel. Fleet is annoying enough as it is, particularly with General Chat, which I always turn off. Why add to its annoyance? Dasty Lol. This is a ridiculous response. The game barely has any '1v1' aspects to it, and the fleet is the only global place for everyone to talk and socialize together, if the servers could handle it then it should certainly be an option for players to duel each other, idk how it would 'annoy' someone seeing players dueling, the duels could always be set to have lower effects for 3rd party & just quieter sound effects when inside of fleet, that could be sorted easily & its much better than players just idling, standing still like npcs. Fleet could have much more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Addictress said: I have been thinking of this a lot. I think having specific areas where duels are allowed would work. I wouldn't even say a separate level. Maybe certain zones of the cantina or specific zones of certain halls would help prevent griefing around vaults and merchant areas while still spicing up the atmosphere of the overall fleet. I've been thinking about this, and it would have to take into account that the cantina (downstairs inside the inner ring) is a questing area - there are still missions down there (at least a specific point in the Prelude To Revan sequence, and a point where you meet the reporter dude during one of the parts in or just after Ossus), and it wouldn't be cool to disrupt people's cutscenes there(1). If we're seeking an area on Fleet to hold duels that's only lightly used, what about behind the stage in the Cartel Bazaar, or the personal starship ring? (1) That might just mean "finally fix the leaky-into cutscenes bug"... 1 hour ago, UnrealXylo said: idk how it would 'annoy' someone seeing players dueling, the duels could always be set to have lower effects for 3rd party It's not just the effects, but players duelling are still clickable-on, and nobody wants that bouncing in and out when trying to interact with a vendor.(2)(3) In any event, what's annoying is not seeing them over there, but them doing it right in my face, whether I'm trying to interact with a vendor or not, and whether or not there are visible effects. (2) That might just be an indication that duelling players should only be clickable-on by the other participant in the duel. (3) More generally, any interactable object: vendors, storage kiosks, appearance kiosk, modification tables, lore objects, mission terminals, lift buttons, mission-giver NPCs, mailboxes, ability and crew skill trainers, etc. On the other hand, if duelling players disappeared from the world into a mini-instance for the duration of the duel, so their duel was *completely* invisible to the rest of the players in the area, sure, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdast Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, UnrealXylo said: Lol. This is a ridiculous response. The game barely has any '1v1' aspects to it, and the fleet is the only global place for everyone to talk and socialize together, if the servers could handle it then it should certainly be an option for players to duel each other, idk how it would 'annoy' someone seeing players dueling, the duels could always be set to have lower effects for 3rd party & just quieter sound effects when inside of fleet, that could be sorted easily & its much better than players just idling, standing still like npcs. Fleet could have much more to it. You expect Broadsword / SWTOR to devote resources to recoding the sound and visual effects of dozens of abilities (if not more) for the sole purpose of allowing players to duel on fleet? G'luck with that! More broadly, all three who responded to this thread (myself, Cynical Steve, and Addictress) have proposed permutations to accommodate your desire to duel on fleet (i.e., we're trying to help you). I proposed a separate level; Cynical Steve proposed transporting you to a "mini-instance"; and Addictress proposed having certain sections of the fleet available for dueling. Cynical Steve and I are proposing close to the functional equivalent, though with my solution of a dedicated fleet level you wouldn't have to spam duel requests -- you would know all players on that level were there to duel. The issue with the proposed solution of Addictress is twofold: 1) it would be difficult to demarcate the boundaries -- does someone auto-forfeit if they move out of the zone?; and 2) the fleet is chock full of close cramped corridors and vendors are prevalent throughout so establishing where on the main level of the fleet would be difficult. Perhaps the other ships on the fleet with wider open spaces would work. And perhaps Cynical Steve's idea of a certain area in the Cartel Bazaar would work, but you would have to clearly demarcate boundaries and it couldn't accommodate more than a few duels. Regardless, your proposal is DOA. Broadsword and SWTOR are not going to recode abilities which would apply only if dueling. And, frankly, we're just going to agree to disagree on whether or not I should or would find it annoying for griefers to jump around like jackrabbits spamming even muted abilities while I try to interact with a vendor, bank, etc. Time will tell if your proposal gains traction. I wish you the best of luck. Dasty Edited August 17, 2023 by Jdast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 I'm sure they could literally just make it to where the players could just be force ghosts that wouldn't interrupt any vendors/anything on the fleet when their players are dueling... (like making the players untargetable when dueling in fleet) To be fair an arena on the fleet where maybe only 1v1's you can signup to duel an opponent and everybody else could freely watch could also be cool & fix the issues that you suggest, I don't think boundaries would be an issue if it had its own dedicated small room to it, maybe make the arena size tripple the length as force push so you can avoid being knocked out There's just a lack of '1v1' dueling in this game and its a shame because 1v1's are where the most fun is at, but since there are so many planets there isn't really a main area/arena for dueling, with any 'global' chat... but it just has so much potential.. It's not 'dead on arrival' at all, this is what the fourm is about, discussing things Devs pls I beg ❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 I'm sure they could literally just make it to where the players could just be force ghosts that wouldn't interrupt any vendors/anything on the fleet when their players are dueling... (like making the players untargetable when dueling in fleet) To be fair an arena on the fleet where maybe only 1v1's you can signup to duel an opponent and everybody else could freely watch could also be cool & fix the issues that you suggest, I don't think boundaries would be an issue if it had its own dedicated small room to it, maybe make the arena size tripple the length as force push so you can avoid being knocked out There's just a lack of '1v1' dueling in this game and its a shame because 1v1's are where the most fun is at, but since there are so many planets there isn't really a main area/arena for dueling, with any 'global' chat... but it just has so much potential.. It's not 'dead on arrival' at all, this is what the fourm is about, discussing things For example, due to the global chat only being on fleet and not every planet, if I was in fleet and was having some banter with someone and I wanted to duel them, I'd have to arrange to go to a planet to the meetup to then duel (and anyone else who would want to watch or join would also have to switch planet) and then make sure they're also in the right instance, to then quick travel to some taxi place to duel. Imo, this is really complicated for someone to have some 'friendly duel banter', I mean, we have to grind really hard for the PvP gear and stuff so why not be able to use it properly in a 1v1 without all these complicated steps? Devs pls I beg ❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaMist Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I'd love an idea of dueling arena on the fleet, ideally connected to the main ring or most would never visit. It should have a section for the observers to watch the duel. It would also be fun to get an option, once you step into "audience" circle, to get temp abilities to throw either flowers or tomatoes at the duelists (and perhaps there could be achievements attached for receiving a certain number of flowers/tomatoes). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 If you want to duel, leave the fleet, problem solved. There are multiple reasons why this has never been implemented and never will be, EAWare made the correct decision. Nothing wrong in asking and bringing awareness to it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_Little_Dragon Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Is it all of fleet where you can't duel or only main fleet? If it's just a matter of going to the gav daragon to duel, then that's much simpler to moving to another planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 4 hours ago, UnrealXylo said: because 1v1's are where the most fun is at That opinion is far from universal. For example, you think it's the best thing, whereas I'm not a big fan of PvP in general, but even less of a fan of 1v1, so it lurks well down the list, just above GSF. 4 hours ago, UnrealXylo said: It's not 'dead on arrival' at all In the sense that people have been proposing things to "improve" duelling for years, and exactly none of those things have been implemented, except for an automatic obstacle to duelling(1), the suggestion is highly likely to get *no* action from the studio. In that way, it very much is DOA, or very close to it. (1) Yes, that's right, the "Auto Ignore Duels" toggle was not introduced to the game until six or seven years after the game launched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Pirana said: If you want to duel, leave the fleet, problem solved. But that's the problem, because of the way it is, there is literally 0 duel scene, when there could and should be. Have you ever tried to get randoms on planets to duel you? It's not easy as most people there are doing quests and aren't "idling" and up for dueling as others may be who are idling on the fleet. 1 hour ago, LD_Little_Dragon said: Is it all of fleet where you can't duel or only main fleet? If it's just a matter of going to the gav daragon to duel, then that's much simpler to moving to another planet. Sadly it's all of the fleet 40 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said: That opinion is far from universal. No but I've talked to many people ingame who share a similar opinion as me, so it is a wanted feature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, UnrealXylo said: But that's the problem, because of the way it is, there is literally 0 duel scene, when there could and should be. Have you ever tried to get randoms on planets to duel you? It's not easy as most people there are doing quests and aren't "idling" and up for dueling as others may be who are idling on the fleet. Sadly it's all of the fleet No but I've talked to many people ingame who share a similar opinion as me, so it is a wanted feature That's your problem, not the problem. Allowing duels on the fleet would do far more damage than it's worth. If you're able to looks at things objectively and not from a personal viewpoint, you know exactly why they're not allowed on the fleet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Pirana said: That's your problem, not the problem. No, that's exactly "the" problem I'm writing about. Multiple people have expressed the same view as me, over years, so it's not a personal point of view, it's a community-wide point of view. Anyway I don't care for your opinion in one single bit, I'm making a suggestion to devs, I don't care what you have to say to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 59 minutes ago, UnrealXylo said: No, that's exactly "the" problem I'm writing about. Multiple people have expressed the same view as me, over years, so it's not a personal point of view, It *is* a personal point of view. 59 minutes ago, UnrealXylo said: it's a community-wide point of view. But it's one that's shared with "multiple people". That, however, does not make it "community-wide", i.e. shared by more or less the whole community. 59 minutes ago, UnrealXylo said: Anyway I don't care for your opinion in one single bit, I'm making a suggestion to devs, I don't care what you have to say to me. You *should* care what other people say about it - you certainly care that ==> those people *share* your opinion (or you wouldn't have cited their existence). You should bear in mind that there is some level of dissent about the value of duelling in the first place, and some level of dissent about, assuming it has value, whether it should be allowed on the Fleet. Blinding yourself to dissenting opinions on the subject will not help you make a convincing case to the people whose opinion actually *matters* - the people at the studio who decide what features should be implemented and when. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 so yeah ignore what those keyboard warriors are saying, didn't read whatever he said ^ lol so yeah Devs hope you can do me a massive solid and let us duel in the fleet, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdast Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) What is really frustrating about this thread is most of us are trying to help you. We offered you solutions, most of which you ignored. We tried to help you. We presented alternatives. So far, you seem to agree with mine of a dedicated level. /shrug Let's wait and see if BS/SWTOR agrees with you. Don't hold your breath. Dasty Edited August 18, 2023 by Jdast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealXylo Posted August 18, 2023 Author Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) Solution? How are you going to solve this problem? By complaining about my suggestion? I did listen to you, I even agreed that the dueling arena would be a good idea. My post was to the devs, then you're all commenting how this idea would not be "accepted" or that it's not a desired feature (when it is) "that's your problem, not the problem" - nah you're right I don't care about ignorant, unhelpful comments, I'm not ignoring solutions at all, however, I'm not bothered if you leave or not lmao, bye Edited August 18, 2023 by UnrealXylo sry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathiosLorano Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) Yeah good luck with this suggestion. Broadsword and the SWTOR devs will not add dueling on the fleet. It will disrupt RP. You can always go to DK/Coruscant/Korriban/Tython. Perhaps a dueling tournament in Outlaw Den on Tatooine. I would love to see more world PvP. Perhaps it will come dunno. But good luck with this. Edited August 18, 2023 by KathiosLorano 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 Outlaw's Den is a good idea. Legacy level 2 perk that costs a measly 50k, instant trasport there and can port back to the fleet. What this really boils down to is grandstanding, similiar to the people that are desirous of attention on the fleet, so they stand atop the GTN or any other notable object to garner the aformentioned. Plenty of places to duel in the game, the fleet is wanted for a reason. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathiosLorano Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 29 minutes ago, Pirana said: Outlaw's Den is a good idea. Legacy level 2 perk that costs a measly 50k, instant trasport there and can port back to the fleet. What this really boils down to is grandstanding, similiar to the people that are desirous of attention on the fleet, so they stand atop the GTN or any other notable object to garner the aformentioned. Plenty of places to duel in the game, the fleet is wanted for a reason. Would be nice if Outlaw’s Den was used more. I’d be on board if someone came up with an event that uses that location for world PvP or dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 5 hours ago, UnrealXylo said: My post was to the devs, You put it in a public forum, so you left it open for the public to discuss. 5 hours ago, UnrealXylo said: then you're all commenting how this idea would not be "accepted" or that it's not a desired feature (when it is) Tsk. Nobody said it was not desired by at least someone. What we said was that it is not desired by *us*, the folks commenting here. @Jdast and I both said that *we* don't like it, not that the great mass of people out there don't want it. (The fact that I don't recall a similar request in the past(1) - to remove the "no duelling" status of Fleet - does suggest that people aren't really very enthusiastic about the idea, neither for nor against.) Observation: probably the reason there's no duelling on the Fleet is because it counts as "sanctuary", allowing immediate logouts without the "this area is unsafe, are you sure" prompt. Experiment: it would be interesting to see if duelling is allowed in the Nar Shaddaa Promenade area, which is another "sanctuary". (1) I've been reading the forums since 2013, so it might have gotten lost in the noise, but that indicates that it's not a common request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, KathiosLorano said: Would be nice if Outlaw’s Den was used more. I’d be on board if someone came up with an event that uses that location for world PvP or dueling. Are you volunteering to run that sort of event? After all, Outlaw's Den is available for free-for-all world PvP in the PvP instance even now. All it requires is an organiser. Duelling can definitely happen in Outlaw's Den, even in the PvE instance(s). All it requires is an organiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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