Powertech's new Stealth Scan is broken

[ecstazypop]

As the title suggests, the pt new stealth scan is broken... The accuracy debuff is just eliminating all competition in this game...

People playing tripple pt for this reason and not only... In pvp it makes all the cleave classes unplayable, and even some ranged classes.

An accuracy debuff that stays on the ground for 15 seconds should not be allowed.

I would rather suggest this utility to be available only to a specific spec, not to all.

[Beyrahl]

It was reported a month ago now I think that it was stacking with itself, it's on their radar... hopefully. 
I think the tradeoff of losing range is generally not a bad choice for the arena but less so useful in 8v8 outside of stacking it. If you face it simply start out ranging them, part of the reason power techs are so good at the moment at least AP, is the fact they have a 15-meter range with talent. In order to take a scan they give up a GCD in rotation - which is important, they also give up their extended range. A lot of other specs sort of play and have played this way for a long time, simply walk away from the haze, flame sweep, slam, etc. 
It stacking is an issue, if it didn't I think it's reasonable and a strong option in tight spaces.

Ultimately removing the accuracy debuff altogether would be the easiest option and I think that's totally fine. The ability would go back to being pretty much dead, which right now it's only a niche use due to its stacking. 

[DougTheNoob]

Theres always a problem with AP-PT. Same with operatives. They seem to be unable to balance these classes. They always give em something obnoxious. Hope one day they can finaly fix the class balance problem.

[omeru]

Who could predict adding 15 sec 20% accuracy debuff with a 20 sec cd can break pvp. I had a voidstar with multiple pts on both sides and tank and healer combo and noone died, it was so boring it was my last queue for the day maybe last one for the week.

[septru]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1885911686?t=00h28m05s

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by septru

[krackcommando]

your laugh is a higher pitch than biggs. 😄

so is it only good when he's in the scan or if you hit him with it does it last wherever he goes? (why don't I just look it up? because you're fat and lazy. fair.)

[septru]

2 hours ago, krackcommando said:

your laugh is a higher pitch than biggs. 😄

so is it only good when he's in the scan or if you hit him with it does it last wherever he goes? (why don't I just look it up? because you're fat and lazy. fair.)

I didn't realize how loud my mic was until half way through the stream. 

 

I have no clue how the utility works. I don't play this game enough to really care. I've been told it is a 15% accuracy debuff to white damage for the duration of the time they are in it.  But @Beyrahl would know much more than I. 

[Beyrahl]

lol. I don't know this because I read it all the time but rather photographic memory. IIRC.
-20% accuracy debuff for 15s? if they're in it. This works like a weaker diversion, when stacked it's much worse as it seems to count as its own debuff. Any more than 2 of them it's instantly stronger than a diversion and with its low cooldown and the fact IIRC scales with alacrity it's on around 18s CD, leaving around 3-8s? of downtime. Quite incredible, in the arena, it's definitely more impactful as I said but in 8v8 unless it's OPG / Controlling an area it's not as good. 
Stackings the issue and if it's fixed that's great, if it's flat-out removed, that's great. 
Accuracy/rng has no place in pvp imo. 

[septru]

6 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

This works like a weaker diversion, when stacked it's much worse as it seems to count as its own debuff.

How do you know it stacks? Iirc there is no other accuracy debuff in the game with a stacking mechanic. 

[krackcommando]

optimal troll comp: engi + pyro, PT tank. merc heal. can anything top this?

edit: against white dmg specs ofc.

Edited August 4, 2023 by krackcommando

[Beyrahl]

59 minutes ago, septru said:

How do you know it stacks? Iirc there is no other accuracy debuff in the game with a stacking mechanic. 

People in EU had complained about it, but I suppose that's no surprise. I reported it back when it came out as an oversight and it was actually sent to the dev team, so if it does still stack - which I never tried you'd have to do a few different things. First, you have to see if your accuracy is actually impacted on the fly or if it's just debuffed, then stack another scan on top of it, if it's not showing as anything on debuff or accuracy values you have to look externally at a parse and test hit rate. 
(I would hope they did something about it, though I don't know personally as they don't cover most bugs in patches.)
Still, nonetheless, class stacking and stacking the same ability is still incredibly impactful. As would stacking all sorcerer DPS in 8v8s. 
As a side note, walking out of it is incredibly easy depending on the specs being played, favoring melee a lot more it does effect the player for at least a gcd or two while leaving, though I don't think it's worth it for a DPS but definitely a viable option for tank - outside of stacking it. As you do give up a gcd every 18s.

Edit - It does have its own debuff, all you have to see is if you see it twice on someone. It does have a different name depending on your faction also so that may be cause for it stacking together. Can't help test because I currently have 1k MS and its unbearable to try and play anything rn. 

 

57 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

edit: against white dmg specs ofc.

As for this, it works against both damage types, not just white damage. If you want white damage to suffer there are a ton of other ways, like grit teeth, throwing arm, and generally predation or evasion. Ultimately if I wanted to suffer playing MM/Carn I would dread going against lethality, Throwing arm immortal, another mara - they could even run grit teeth if they ever take damage to increase defense chance uptime, and the healer less so matters because of the damage loss and how much weaker you are than they are when it comes to stacking. A sniper wouldn't get away with much of anything with being nearly perma obfuscated by saber throw, let alone have any good targets outside of healer that will likely have guard anyway.
Not that I think either side of those compositions would be fun, I think one would enjoy it much less than the other.  

Edited August 4, 2023 by Beyrahl

[krackcommando]

13 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

As for this, it works against both damage types, not just white damage. If you want white damage to suffer there are a ton of other ways, like grit teeth, throwing arm, and generally predation or evasion. Ultimately if I wanted to suffer playing MM/Carn I would dread going against lethality, Throwing arm immortal, another mara - they could even run grit teeth if they ever take damage to increase defense chance uptime, and the healer less so matters because of the damage loss and how much weaker you are than they are when it comes to stacking. A sniper wouldn't get away with much of anything with being nearly perma obfuscated by saber throw, let alone have any good targets outside of healer that will likely have guard anyway.
Not that I think either side of those compositions would be fun, I think one would enjoy it much less than the other.  

pure troll though. oil slick. taunt stun. perma probe. perma acc debuff. kolto cloud on cd. and just to really piss off that one guy you really wanna see lose his mind: enet. 😄

Edited August 4, 2023 by krackcommando

[Beyrahl]

17 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

taunt stun.

This being gone is the main reason PvP has been more enjoyable for me. 

[DougTheNoob]

3 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

This being gone is the main reason PvP has been more enjoyable for me. 

Its a start for sure. Now they need to add roots and slows,or at least roots to the white bar system.

[Beyrahl]

1 hour ago, DougTheNoob said:

Its a start for sure. Now they need to add roots and slows,or at least roots to the white bar system.

I doubt we'd see it but I would love something that'd give DR for abusive abilities when stacked. Like Creeping terror root, chain lightning root, Force crush slow.. etc rotational abilities specifically. I am also a believer of no root really needs to be 5 seconds 4 is plenty and would be noticed. I did a lot of videos actually regarding issues and QoL for "PvP revamp ideas" all for not though... 

This is one where I specifically covered Resolve/Class stacking. Though I have 4 other videos like it, I am glad I did them because I had a lot of these ideas because I love the game's PvP. 

[merovejec]

Yup another OP thing the Devs let through

[Xerekfell]

I like at how the devs nerfed Force Bound in 6.0 from debuffing weapon/tech acc to just tech. Now they added back pre-nerf Force Bound with a 20 sec CD in the form of Terminator Droid combined with Stealth Scan. BioWare Balancing and Intelligence at its finest.

[krackcommando]

5 hours ago, Xerekfell said:

I like at how the devs nerfed Force Bound in 6.0 from debuffing weapon/tech acc to just tech. Now they added back pre-nerf Force Bound with a 20 sec CD in the form of Terminator Droid combined with Stealth Scan. BioWare Balancing and Intelligence at its finest.

the more changes are made to core/signature abilities, the less I like pruning. and I was/am a huge proponent of pruning...specifically the seven thousand DCDs that every class has to run around without support from their tank(s) and healer(s).

that said, the end result of pruning was (predictably, I suppose) broken (i.e., devastating to some classes while comparatively meaningless to others). some of the pruning was just petty. like...stealth scan is a signature ability of troopers. one could argue that it was never really powerful, but it had its uses. in fact, I learned how to use it to great effect over the years on both ACs. it was never going to stop someone from opening on you, but holy hell! in 7.x, mercs are slow af, and then they have to pay an ability choice tax just to get the chance to guess where the stealthy went on his attempt to run away and recharge. WTH?

but then they spice it up with all sorts of buffs. like, "hey. you have to pay for SS, but now look at all the neat things it can do." I look at it and think, "this sounds like the IRS telling me they're doing me a favor by allowing me to reclaim the money I 'overpaid' them in the form of a tax rebate." it was my money in the first place!

it's even worse with force shroud. I'm surprised I didn't have to select trauma stabilizers just to get reactive shield.

oh. and thanks for changing the SS bundle to include DR while stunned. wait. what? there's a 5s difference between the active time of the scan and when I can deploy a new one? doesn't that kinda make it useless to a stealth with half a brain (or any opponent really)? I can't deploy SS while stunned. so...thanks?

[Xerekfell]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:57 PM, krackcommando said:

the more changes are made to core/signature abilities, the less I like pruning. and I was/am a huge proponent of pruning...specifically the seven thousand DCDs that every class has to run around without support from their tank(s) and healer(s).

that said, the end result of pruning was (predictably, I suppose) broken (i.e., devastating to some classes while comparatively meaningless to others). some of the pruning was just petty. like...stealth scan is a signature ability of troopers. one could argue that it was never really powerful, but it had its uses. in fact, I learned how to use it to great effect over the years on both ACs. it was never going to stop someone from opening on you, but holy hell! in 7.x, mercs are slow af, and then they have to pay an ability choice tax just to get the chance to guess where the stealthy went on his attempt to run away and recharge. WTH?

but then they spice it up with all sorts of buffs. like, "hey. you have to pay for SS, but now look at all the neat things it can do." I look at it and think, "this sounds like the IRS telling me they're doing me a favor by allowing me to reclaim the money I 'overpaid' them in the form of a tax rebate." it was my money in the first place!

it's even worse with force shroud. I'm surprised I didn't have to select trauma stabilizers just to get reactive shield.

oh. and thanks for changing the SS bundle to include DR while stunned. wait. what? there's a 5s difference between the active time of the scan and when I can deploy a new one? doesn't that kinda make it useless to a stealth with half a brain (or any opponent really)? I can't deploy SS while stunned. so...thanks?

At least they nerfed Crushing Blow dmg increase taunt util. Oh wait, you can just get the 10% melee dmg bonus from Victor and essentially have it back to 50%. 

[Beyrahl]

10% is too insignificant. Even without taking the taunt damage increase node, the class is still doing well.

1 hour ago, Xerekfell said:

At least they nerfed Crushing Blow dmg increase taunt util. Oh wait, you can just get the 10% melee dmg bonus from Victor and essentially have it back to 50%. 

I would be more concerned with the 25% reduced damage on stun sorcerers getting.
Quick tl;dr.
 

Quote

A quick explanation of why this is bad and how it used to work and likely will work if re-added into the game. -25% Reduced damage works separately from other damage reduction in the game, it'll take 25% off of your damage before anything like Damage reduction & taunts, amplifying the power of this talent & ability. Making it one of the best abilities in the game when used well shutting down a specific player even further with ease. For example, using this with high alacrity on Lightning/Telekinetics which is easy to achieve, and throwing in polarity you hit around a 30-something-second CD. Hard stuns scale with alacrity and the reduction is flat, so the alacrity reduction counts from 50s CD. Now when this is stacked which is already incredibly oppressive when this class is stacked it'll be yet another reason why players will complain sorcerers are OP.