Every time I see black bars silent conversation I want to quit

[eabevella]

1 hour ago, Stradlin said:

 

There's  absolutely nothing in vanilla content so tight that cramming in few more class stories would be somehow difficult or game breaking.  When it comes to SWTOR and its main storylines, game was build to be extremely modular and instanced. From POV of game mechanics, class stories are 100 voice acted bits of dialogue in 100 instanced, isolated  rooms.  Complimented  by 100 trivial fights against mobs, bosses in 100 other instanced rooms. If we assume they'd add only one class with  familiar male/female VA options, that'd amount to hiring six more voice actors for player char alone. Throw in all the minor parts of all the  NPCs, companions and so on.  Costly and difficult. Certainly much more so than making  tiny, instanced  rooms is.

There's no need to make new zones, new planets, new textures  or anything like that. Or even new rooms. Ofc new class story would only  naturally end up morphed in zones that are already there. Hutt Gangster -class would easily go from start to finish by visiting planets that have been present in  game for 10+ years.

 

Dififculty of class stories being what it is, there is no combat mechanics of mobs/bosses of any kind to consider. When it comes to actual gameplay outside of dialogue, no fight in SWTOR vanilla storylines is truly memorable, so they're free of hurdles such as figuring out what this sith lord or that would actually do during combat. They stand there and swing their blade til they die 20 seconds later is what they do.

 

 

 

 

I guess coding is so easy nowadays you can hire AI to do it. /s

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

52 minutes ago, eabevella said:

I guess coding is so easy nowadays you can hire AI to do it. /s

I'd think at this point technology has advanced to such a state where you wouldn't even need to hire living breathing voice actors, I can't imagine they couldn't digitally create voices.

I mean you got A.I. Voices on computers like Amazon Alexa and they even made a male version of the voice.

So, I don't know why Bioware couldn't just go that route. It's probably not even all that expensive these days (relatively speaking of course).

I mean, I'm far from an expert on computer programming or digital designing and game creation, so I could be off here.

Edited May 31, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Stradlin]

49 minutes ago, eabevella said:

I guess coding is so easy nowadays you can hire AI to do it. /s

Yeah, people actually are literally doing that now.amazingly enough. Or rather, a.i is used to supplement and inspire the human. It is mindblowing!

Anyway, the difficult and time consuming  coding bits happened when they were creating the tools and game engine. Building a new  room with those now finished tools is closer to player decorating an  SH, rather than some crazy elite hacking the matrix-scene.

[eabevella]

10 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I'd think at this point technology has advanced to such a state where you wouldn't even need to hire living breathing voice actors, I can't imagine they couldn't digitally create voices.

I mean you got A.I. Voices on computers like Amazon Alexa and they even made a male version of the voice.

So, I don't know why Bioware couldn't just go that route. It's probably not even all that expensive these days (relatively speaking of course).

I mean, I'm far from an expert on computer programming or digital designing and game creation, so I could be off here.

You can do AI voices but they are subpar to actual voice actors acting. There's no comparison.

That said, they could use AI generated voices for GS companion or event NPCs if it means I can suffer their non-basic noise less.

10 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Yeah, people actually are literally doing that now.amazingly enough. Or rather, a.i is used to supplement and inspire the human. It is mindblowing!

Anyway, the difficult and time consuming  coding bits happened when they were creating the tools and game engine. Building a new  room with those now finished tools is closer to player decorating an  SH, rather than some crazy elite hacking the matrix-scene.

Yeah, I bet AI can tackle the monstrosity that is the vanilla content coding. It's just "making new rooms", after all.

But who knows, maybe an AI won't magically break EV when they put some dialogue trees into their new Belsavis class story.

[Stradlin]

4 hours ago, eabevella said:

You can do AI voices but they are subpar to actual voice actors acting. There's no comparison.

That said, they could use AI generated voices for GS companion or event NPCs if it means I can suffer their non-basic noise less.

Yeah, I bet AI can tackle the monstrosity that is the vanilla content coding. It's just "making new rooms", after all.

But who knows, maybe an AI won't magically break EV when they put some dialogue trees into their new Belsavis class story.

 

I'm not sure why you think it is so difficult or time consuming  to add an instanced room to this  vanilla planet or that. We speak of them using tools and editors created over 10 years back. Entirely new planets with new  biomes,new tilesets,all that? That'd be different. 

I'm unironically certain AI could easily tackle the cody bits of adding a single instanced room. It is not difficult or time consuming for devs. Filling that room with actual  content and talky parts and story bits? Thats the costly and complicated  part...due to writers, voice actors.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Stradlin

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

4 hours ago, Stradlin said:

I'm unironically certain AI could easily tackle the cody bits of adding a single instanced room. It is not difficult or time consuming for them. Filling that room with content and talky parts and story bits? Thats the costly and complicated  part...due to writers, voice actors.

Ya know the funny thing is they could have plenty of voice actors who would do it totally for free if they asked members of the game if they wanted to do one of the voices in game.

I can't imagine there wouldn't be a lot of us who wouldn't jump at the chance to voice act some part for the game even if we didn't get paid for it! 🙋‍♂️

[Stradlin]

15 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Ya know the funny thing is they could have plenty of voice actors who would do it totally for free if they asked members of the game if they wanted to do one of the voices in game.

I can't imagine there wouldn't be a lot of us who wouldn't jump at the chance to voice act some part for the game even if we didn't get paid for it! 🙋‍♂️

They could, but for some reason or another something like that is never done. Some of it is prolly logistics. It'd be so difficult to get an identical quality recording out of everybody willing.  How'd you do it? Haul them all to Austin? How many willing to do it for free are good enough to qualify? I wonder if some legal red tape or risk factors are involved, stuff  that'd keep EA lawyers worried about such initiatives. It def isn't a bad idea, I just assume there are good reasons why (afaik) no major game published  by a major studio has done this to any larger degree. Mostly I assume it is a talent issue. It'd def be exciting for anyone dreaming of a career in VA.

A.I keeps getting mentioned in sarcastic context here....It is utterly insane how rapidly it has advanced within last year or so. You already have somewhat credible A.I made imitations of US Presidents, for example. Notion of A.I being able to save TOR's VA isn't far off. Just that there doubtless are some massive, massive legal issues here too. There's no change in hell Jennifer Hale and co will ever just let A.I to fill in for them, with their voice.Their entire union would go to strtike over this, and will likely gatekeep a.i as much as they can.

Beyond that, A.I been perfectly able to tackle stuff like "droid voices" for a long time now. Elite Dangerous has used A.I to act as their in game news reader for like half a decade for example. She does ok. It is so strange to me how  the Season 3 pleasure bot isn't A.I voiced English, instead of that lame low effort beeblaabooblaa language. AI is surely better at acting droids than human actors are:p

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Stradlin

[Shayddow]

Adding a new class wouldn't only be the companions of said class. It would also involve every mission- planet, exploratory, etc mission/ etc and adding dialogue for said mission if applicable, what influence for old conversations that haven't been revisited since 2012.

Although they HAVE deleted some dialogue (HK-51) from missions, they've never ADDED anything since the game started to vanilla planet dialogue.

[Stradlin]

2 hours ago, Shayddow said:

Adding a new class wouldn't only be the companions of said class. It would also involve every mission- planet, exploratory, etc mission/ etc and adding dialogue for said mission if applicable, what influence for old conversations that haven't been revisited since 2012.

Although they HAVE deleted some dialogue (HK-51) from missions, they've never ADDED anything since the game started to vanilla planet dialogue.

 

If they ever were to add a new class story(I'm sure they never will, this is all  just idle speculation surely) they'd prolly get far by simply recycling the talky bits of others classes....When it comes to planetary missions etc. Its not like NPCs say that much of anything original or class specific during random missions anyway.   In general, if they added another class story,  surely they'd NOT stick with same old boring trajectory of Hutta->Fleet->DK->Balmorra-NS->etc etc etc..right? Thanks to level synch, they could mix it up a great deal. They could have class that starts from Mek-Sha, then after brief visits to Rishi  and NS, get  send them to do some terrorism on Zakuul, then off to Hutta and  Coruscant..and so on. It could/should be a story taking place on entirely different timeline vs vanilla  class stories.

 

A.I VA was mentioned earlier..

It is utterly mindblowing what A.I can already do, when it comes to spoken dialogue. I mean, look at this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCjosz1vOA&ab_channel=ESO

Ofc,it still remains a somewhat robotic  voice and all for now ..but to think you can talk with her in real time like this, with NPC literally generating the dialogue as you speak? it is insane. It is also able to imitate the voice of the original voice actors of Skyrim. 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Stradlin

[Shayddow]

Watched the video, pretty amazing. However, I wouldn't necessarily want to voice my characters in my own voice.

I have an array of different characters, some of them male, some of them female, and some might have deeper voices, some might have an accent, some might have higher voices.  I can imagine them in many forms.  That was more the advantage of KOTOR, with the "black bars" of conversation. You had to use your imagination to fully appreciate the dialogue.  This applied even more so for earlier games I played that were text only (such as Dragonrealms - from Simutronics, the people that wrote the hero engine that SWTOR is built on). So it was like the difference between an old radio show and television. People had to use their imaginations. Which isn't a bad thing.

 That said, I'm not sure what I think of present and future technology displacing voice actors and others. On one hand, I fear what AI will mean to people's employment, on the other hand - when automobiles and trains were invented, it put a lot of people out of work (blacksmiths, stables, etc.), but it opened up other positions. I think the upcoming technological innovations will be nothing short of a new "industrial revolution" to all the changes to society it will precipitate. So yes, it will revolutionize the gaming industry among others.

[Shayddow]

On the other hand, we aren't quite there yet. I just asked CHATPC for a good combat rotation for a Sith Sorcerer and it referred me to VULKK or SWTORISTA.  🙂

So we humans haven't been replaced.  Yet.

[SteveTheCynic]

7 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Its not like NPCs say that much of anything original or class specific during random missions anyway.

No, none of them greet your Jedi as "Master Jedi" or your Sith as "My Lord"  or your Trooper as Sergeant/Lieutenant/Captain/Major, not ever.

That's all it takes for it to seem at least a little ridiculous.  Let's suppose there's a new origin, Republic Senator (this was something that someone suggested).  How will people react when their Senator is greeted as "Master Jedi" or "Lieutenant" or "Captain" instead of "Senator"?

[Stradlin]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

No, none of them greet your Jedi as "Master Jedi" or your Sith as "My Lord"  or your Trooper as Sergeant/Lieutenant/Captain/Major, not ever.

That's all it takes for it to seem at least a little ridiculous.  Let's suppose there's a new origin, Republic Senator (this was something that someone suggested).  How will people react when their Senator is greeted as "Master Jedi" or "Lieutenant" or "Captain" instead of "Senator"?

 

Just for the sake of this argument, let's pretend they are actually giving serious consideration to adding a brand new class story.  Everything is more or less set. They have good writers booked,  main VA talent within their reach, and a decent pile of supporting cast to act as companions, NPCs and so on. Things are ready to go!! However, they realize several 12 year old planetary missions won't have NPCs saying  "senator" at the start of their mission log dialogue. Hm, clearly it best to abandon the idea for a new class story? Time to go home folks!

 

At any rate..if they were making a new class story, it'd not be the same old Ord Mantell-Coruscant->Taris-> etc trail, right? They'd surely  do something bit more innovative and drastic than that, right?(imagine that Padme and Anakin meme.jpg  here)  Surely they'd go bit further outside of the box than that. I mean, it'd be a rare opportunity to recognize time, at least technically, has passed  in the game world.  It'd be an opportunity to allow players a taste of  post-KOTFE/KOTET era narratives around the galaxy. No way would origins of that new class begin at the start of vanilla timelines. New class starter zone would perhaps be some slum in Zakuul, where the PC is busy doing sabotage or whatever, set somewhere between KOTFE and KOTET. Turn off all the old world NPC exploration missions and such by default, throw only newly written dialogue that touches current events of post KOTFE world upon this imaginary new class.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Stradlin

[Darcmoon]

4 hours ago, Stradlin said:

 

Just for the sake of this argument, let's pretend they are actually giving serious consideration to adding a brand new class story.  Everything is more or less set. They have good writers booked,  main VA talent within their reach, and a decent pile of supporting cast to act as companions, NPCs and so on. Things are ready to go!! However, they realize several 12 year old planetary missions won't have NPCs saying  "senator" at the start of their mission log dialogue. Hm, clearly it best to abandon the idea for a new class story? Time to go home folks!

 

At any rate..if they were making a new class story, it'd not be the same old Ord Mantell-Coruscant->Taris-> etc trail, right? They'd surely  do something bit more innovative and drastic than that, right?(imagine that Padme and Anakin meme.jpg  here)  Surely they'd go bit further outside of the box than that. I mean, it'd be a rare opportunity to recognize time, at least technically, has passed  in the game world.  It'd be an opportunity to allow players a taste of  post-KOTFE/KOTET era narratives around the galaxy. No way would origins of that new class begin at the start of vanilla timelines. New class starter zone would perhaps be some slum in Zakuul, where the PC is busy doing sabotage or whatever, set somewhere between KOTFE and KOTET. Turn off all the old world NPC exploration missions and such by default, throw only newly written dialogue that touches current events of post KOTFE world upon this imaginary new class.

 

If the NPCs are calling the senator by one of the other titles or talking about actions they haven’t done then players will complain.   They would need to get those VA back to redo extra lines.  I’m sorry to say, your idea that they wouldn’t do the exact same planetary leveling trail is probably wrong.  Those planets are already primed for it.  They have shown that bolstering up doesn’t always work the best if the planet even has it.  Additionally, if the senator doesn’t go through the standard setup for leveling, how are they going to be able to get or do the weekly quests?   Ziost dailies, as an example, require you to go thru the story before they open up.  Starting the senator’s timeline after the start of KOTFE would mean that there was no reason to ever go to Ziost story wise. Taris and Balmora both flip ownership depending on how far into the game you are.  

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

14 hours ago, Stradlin said:

A.I VA was mentioned earlier..

It is utterly mindblowing what A.I can already do, when it comes to spoken dialogue. I mean, look at this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCjosz1vOA&ab_channel=ESO

Ofc,it still remains a somewhat robotic  voice and all for now ..but to think you can talk with her in real time like this, with NPC literally generating the dialogue as you speak? it is insane. It is also able to imitate the voice of the original voice actors of Skyrim. 

I don't think it'll take very long until they can get the A.I. voices indistinguishable from the real thing.

I'd be surprised if the military and higher echelons of government didn't already have that working for them but it's just classified.

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, Darcmoon said:

Those planets are already primed for it.  They have shown that bolstering up doesn’t always work the best if the planet even has it.  Additionally, if the senator doesn’t go through the standard setup for leveling, how are they going to be able to get or do the weekly quests?   Ziost dailies, as an example, require you to go thru the story before they open up.  Starting the senator’s timeline after the start of KOTFE would mean that there was no reason to ever go to Ziost story wise. Taris and Balmora both flip ownership depending on how far into the game you are.  

I guess it is kinda questionable if there's any point to really discuss these things, I assume nobody here actually believes we're ever gonna get another class story. But hey!

Why wouldn't this imaginary new class have a  reason to go pay Ziost a visit? All it takes is some writing. It turns out Sith Lord carrying a suitcase stuffed full of Mcuffins died there, way back when Emperor did his thing.  ImaginaryNewClass needs to go there to see if the suitcase  can be still located among the ashes.  

If we imagine there is a new class with new class story NPCs, writers would have all the freedom in the world to make all of the old planets CurrentYear within the boundaries of this class story. This impression of CurrentYear would break if the players willingly choose to walk out of these boundaries, choosing to do some old planetary missions instead of their class story. Internal logic and timeline and such of the world wouldn't survive that..but its not like it has ever really held together: Go visit Taris on your post KOTFE Jedi Knight and your char will be welcomed by Saresh even today.

 

It'd do the game much good to give everybody new, updated planetary mission chains on all the old planets. Mission series that'd unlock once the character has completed KOTET or something. Stuff that'd help establish how the said planets are doing  now, in post KOTET world. Safe to say this isn't gonna happen either. It gets awkward when 10 years+++ of in-game time has passed, we've seen occupation by and collapse of a huge less than eternal empire, ...and no trace of it present in vanilla world. 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Stradlin

[Darcmoon]

23 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

I guess it is kinda questionable if there's any point to really discuss these things, I assume nobody here actually believes we're ever gonna get another class story. But hey!

Why wouldn't this imaginary new class have a  reason to go pay Ziost a visit? All it takes is some writing. It turns out Sith Lord carrying a suitcase stuffed full of Mcuffins died there, way back when Emperor did his thing.  ImaginaryNewClass needs to go there to see if the suitcase  can be still located among the ashes.  

If we imagine there is a new class with new class story NPCs, writers would have all the freedom in the world to make all of the old planets CurrentYear within the boundaries of this class story. This impression of CurrentYear would break if the players willingly choose to walk out of these boundaries, choosing to do some old planetary missions instead of their class story. Internal logic and timeline and such of the world wouldn't survive that..but its not like it has ever really held together: Go visit Taris on your post KOTFE Jedi Knight and your char will be welcomed by Saresh even today.

 

It'd do the game much good to give everybody new, updated planetary mission chains on all the old planets. Mission series that'd unlock once the character has completed KOTET or something. Stuff that'd help establish how the said planets are doing  now, in post KOTET world. Safe to say this isn't gonna happen either. It gets awkward when 10 years+++ of in-game time has passed, we've seen occupation by and collapse of a huge less than eternal empire, ...and no trace of it present in vanilla world. 

 

I’m not saying they may not want to visit Ziost but how would the writers do it and how would it be done mechanicaly?   Right now it requires the player to do the regular story line to open up the dailies.  Would they just flag all the new characters of that class(es) as finished?  If so, what choices did they (or realistically the Main protagonist at the time) make?  Would this lock players out of doing the regular story which may cause complaints. 
 

What faction would origin X be?   If it is either Pub or Imp then they need to introduce origin Y to the other faction.  If they somehow, and considering they haven’t ever let our toons actually switch sides I doubt this, make it where you can choose which faction you join at what point does that happen and in what manner?   You obviously aren’t going to be the outlander and most players aren’t going to want to be just someone in the alliance.  Would they be locked out of doing some of the content from the current game?

 

Ill admit that while I would like new classes, new combat styles would probably be better.   Additionally, I don’t think the amount of resources they would need to put in to the new class(es) would be worth the relative lack of advancement that our current toons would get.  I think others would agree on that.   The decision to go to origin stories and combat styles for 7.0 was nice but I’m still not sure it was worth it since the amount of story we got was pitiful.  

[Aries_cz]

On 5/29/2023 at 5:48 PM, SteveTheCynic said:

Whatever the original motivation was, I'd note that:

• The KOTOR style dialogues include the ability to have far more than just three choices in a dialogue point.  The most I've seen is one point in Qyzen Fess's recruitment alert, I think the reputation turn-in dialogue, which offers 17 different choices.
• They said something about a homage to KOTOR when they announced it back just before 4.0 launched.

The "its homage to KOTOR, seriously, guys" always sounded (at least to me, after experiencing it in game) very much like your typical management/marketing bollocks to try to paint the situation better than it is.

I think it is pretty clear they needed to save cash on "side stories", so they did. Later on, they got hit by the VA strike of 16/17, so it got applied to more content.

 

But, TBH, I don't really care about having 5 ways to "say" yes, 5 ways to "say" no, and 7 to "say" "no, but actually yes". I would much rather take 3 voiced lines, one for each. I will fully admit to getting spoiled in that regard by Mass Effect in 2008 (and, technically speaking, the "wheel" could have up to 6 options at once (or 5 + [investigate])

[GeneralGyro]

the system has been out for 70% of the games life. crazy, i know.

[Aries_cz]

3 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

I’m not saying they may not want to visit Ziost but how would the writers do it and how would it be done mechanicaly?   Right now it requires the player to do the regular story line to open up the dailies.  Would they just flag all the new characters of that class(es) as finished?  If so, what choices did they (or realistically the Main protagonist at the time) make?  Would this lock players out of doing the regular story which may cause complaints. 
 

What faction would origin X be?   If it is either Pub or Imp then they need to introduce origin Y to the other faction.  If they somehow, and considering they haven’t ever let our toons actually switch sides I doubt this, make it where you can choose which faction you join at what point does that happen and in what manner?   You obviously aren’t going to be the outlander and most players aren’t going to want to be just someone in the alliance.  Would they be locked out of doing some of the content from the current game?

 

Ill admit that while I would like new classes, new combat styles would probably be better.   Additionally, I don’t think the amount of resources they would need to put in to the new class(es) would be worth the relative lack of advancement that our current toons would get.  I think others would agree on that.   The decision to go to origin stories and combat styles for 7.0 was nice but I’m still not sure it was worth it since the amount of story we got was pitiful.  

TBH, probably the easiest way out for new class origin would be something like "Zakuulan Exile", aping something like what WoW did with Undead Knights (skip the "story until now")

You were participating in the early raids led by Arcann/Thexan, either as a knight (for Force classes) or soldier (for tech classes) and somehow become pretty distinguished. But then you got captured by Imperials with great disgrace (shamefur dispray), and Marr brought you as an informant on his hunt for Vitiate.

KOTFE+ story rolls on as usual, and at Chapter 9, you pick a faction.

 

Though that would be a bit pointless I assume...

[Kurinana]

1 hour ago, Aries_cz said:

But, TBH, I don't really care about having 5 ways to "say" yes, 5 ways to "say" no, and 7 to "say" "no, but actually yes". I would much rather take 3 voiced lines, one for each. I will fully admit to getting spoiled in that regard by Mass Effect in 2008 (and, technically speaking, the "wheel" could have up to 6 options at once (or 5 + [investigate])

This is my problem with it. I don't mind the KOTOR style dialogue when it's needed: Like recruiting companions during KOTFE or giving Reputation to seasons companion.


Having just 3 options where each is different weight to it (whether Dark / Light, Flirt, Refuse, Kill, etc). Having 8 options to get to the same result feels pointless. I'd much rather had shorter dialogues but voiced by our character, then long converations with so many options that you have to scroll down and eventually start skipping what the NPC says as it's just boring. If I want to know their whole backstory I'll read a codex about it or something.

I have no nostalgia for KOTOR games, I was little child when that game was new. And I played it only recently. And I like its style, it makes KOTOR be KOTOR. But SWTOR is not KOTOR. I know SWTOR mainly exists due to KOTOR, but KOTOR should stay KOTOR and SWTOR should stay SWTOR.  We already did get stuff to honor KOTOR games; various mentions, NPCs, mount, and clothing. (btw, did you notice that swtor gets less and less stuff fully voiced, while WoW keeps getting more and more content voiced?)


Having shorter dialogues with less options feels better than 10 options with detailed backstory of somebody I first met and I'll never see again.  And yes, I'm for using AI for droids and maybe aliens. I wouldn't even mind if we talked more often with aliens (just not the same aliens over and over - where are Evocii, Ongree, Neimoidan, Klatoonian, Arcona, Abissin, Ishi Tib, Gran, etc.) if they'd record new voice lines for them. Using same 3 or 4 voice lines for most of the aliens for the last 11 years feels like crime.




Btw, this might be just something I think is cool, but How cool would it be if swtor brought fans to record new voice lines for aliens and droids. I know people complain when the voice acting isn't great, but would it really matter that much with aliens or random background characters?  I mean... don't we live in a world where some people do sound weird? Would it be too weird to meet an alien who sounds sick or its voice is just all over the place. I wouldn't mind meeting an alien whose voice intonation changes - I believe it would give them more depth and uniqueness. And I know that aliens usually speak Huttese, but do we really need all the aliens to use the same 4 voice lines?

[Darcmoon]

1 hour ago, Aries_cz said:

TBH, probably the easiest way out for new class origin would be something like "Zakuulan Exile", aping something like what WoW did with Undead Knights (skip the "story until now")

You were participating in the early raids led by Arcann/Thexan, either as a knight (for Force classes) or soldier (for tech classes) and somehow become pretty distinguished. But then you got captured by Imperials with great disgrace (shamefur dispray), and Marr brought you as an informant on his hunt for Vitiate.

KOTFE+ story rolls on as usual, and at Chapter 9, you pick a faction.

 

Though that would be a bit pointless I assume...

The point I was trying to partially make is that one of the reasons I assume they haven’t given us the ability to switch factions is due to all the internal flags that would need to be changed from Imp -> Pub or vice versa.  I would guess that it would be roughly as difficult for them to have to suddenly flag the appropriate things when you chose which faction to be. Now, they could make you choose the faction before you even make the toon, like they do with the current origins but then there will be a lot of players complaining again.  

[Balameb]

4 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

I’m not saying they may not want to visit Ziost but how would the writers do it and how would it be done mechanicaly?   Right now it requires the player to do the regular story line to open up the dailies.  Would they just flag all the new characters of that class(es) as finished?  If so, what choices did they (or realistically the Main protagonist at the time) make?  Would this lock players out of doing the regular story which may cause complaints.

It is not required if you skip content. When skiping to Kotfe/Kotet, iokath or Ossus; Ziost is marked as completed. You can't replay the story part and you get the Daily area available. As for 'choices' i think in ziost were all irrelevant to the end result, i don't remember it being referenced after it is done.

BTW, all of SOR is maked as completed(and you get Yavin as well). Makeb story is still available for some odd reason, witch makes no sense to me as i think to remember the introduction depicts your companions that you loose when starting kotfe 🤷‍♂️

[Stradlin]

4 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

I’m not saying they may not want to visit Ziost but how would the writers do it and how would it be done mechanicaly?   Right now it requires the player to do the regular story line to open up the dailies. 

What faction would origin X be?   If it is either Pub or Imp then they need to introduce origin Y to the other faction.  If they somehow, and considering they haven’t ever let our toons actually switch sides I doubt this, make it where you can choose which faction you join at what point does that happen and in what manner?   You obviously aren’t going to be the outlander and most players aren’t going to want to be just someone in the alliance.  Would they be locked out of doing some of the content from the current game?

 

I'm pretty certain there isn't any kind of difficulty involved in this. Any even half serious game  worth its salt  makes sure it'll be very easy and simple for devs to move players around in any and all places imaginable. Moving player characters around the world as needed just can not be difficult or time consuming to do, from pov of development and developers. Client and devs don't have to worry about permissions or authorizations or mission completions like players do. There already are various terminals and tokens available in-game that autocomplete some more or less precise part of the game via mouseclick.

 

 

If we are going to get just one imaginary class, then surely it'd be neutral. Ie perhaps said class could move freely among both factions. For sake of mechanics, maybe have em " pledge" for either major faction due to group finder and other queue pools. Unsure if even that is necessary though?  Letting players choose the faction would be much less of a headache to balance and sort out surely though,.

 

I personally think it'd  be extremely refreshing to be somebody besides The Outlander for once. It is pretty silly and tiresome how the benevolent jedi master, psycho sith warrior, selfish smuggler and havoc squadron major are all happily running  the same organization.
 

 

I don't get all this talk about senators:p Obv starfighter pilot is the only real option for a new class!

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Stradlin

[Darcmoon]

47 minutes ago, Balameb said:

It is not required if you skip content. When skiping to Kotfe/Kotet, iokath or Ossus; Ziost is marked as completed. You can't replay the story part and you get the Daily area available. As for 'choices' i think in ziost were all irrelevant to the end result, i don't remember it being referenced after it is done.

BTW, all of SOR is maked as completed(and you get Yavin as well). Makeb story is still available for some odd reason, witch makes no sense to me as i think to remember the introduction depicts your companions that you loose when starting kotfe 🤷‍♂️

By required I meant that the game believes you finished the Ziost story line.   Using a boost or just jumping ahead to KOTFE or after has the game mark you as finishing that story.  For the hypothetical new origin story, Ziost and any other similar areas would need that flag. I brought up how that would be done.   What if someone wanted to be able to do Rishi, Yavin IV, and Ziost with those new toons?  I don’t know how much trouble it would be for an ‘outside’ character, for them to correctly flag what needs to be. 
 

I do agree that Makeb is wierd in that it is exempt from the expansions that are considered complete when jumping ahead.