Ok, last whine post for now; swear.

[wombatjake]

Simple solution to fixing the LIE the devs told players regarding how dual classing would work:

1.) Divide force and tech users as it is. 
2.) Each has 4 base skills 
   A) Tech would have a grenade for knockdown/knock back, a cable that all bounty hunters and I would assume most saavy tech warriors would have to pull enemies to them and use also as a hold skill at a certain range, like within 3 feet, and a leap-to-enemy skill of course. 

   B) Force users would have push, pull, leap, and throw saber. These are basic things literally force sensitive babies can do. Im so tired of this. It has been 12 years and you haven't come up with a solution  or even lore explaining why force users are so inept. And letting us use push and pull in cutscenes but not all classes get it in game is ludicrous.

And again, enough with your weapon restrictions. The animations are all there for any tech to use any gun and still use the same "ammo" that class uses coming out of a different class' gun. Why wont you do things like this? This game is a bloated mess in a good way. There is no "balance" and the lore is all over the place. Just let us freakin play like ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in. Imagine actually thinking you can take on an entire army with a pistol but you're a smuggler by trade. Stop this madness. Your designs make no sense. 

[Darcmoon]

20 minutes ago, wombatjake said:

Simple solution to fixing the LIE the devs told players regarding how dual classing would work:

1.) Divide force and tech users as it is. 
2.) Each has 4 base skills 
   A) Tech would have a grenade for knockdown/knock back, a cable that all bounty hunters and I would assume most saavy tech warriors would have to pull enemies to them and use also as a hold skill at a certain range, like within 3 feet, and a leap-to-enemy skill of course. 

   B) Force users would have push, pull, leap, and throw saber. These are basic things literally force sensitive babies can do. Im so tired of this. It has been 12 years and you haven't come up with a solution  or even lore explaining why force users are so inept. And letting us use push and pull in cutscenes but not all classes get it in game is ludicrous.

And again, enough with your weapon restrictions. The animations are all there for any tech to use any gun and still use the same "ammo" that class uses coming out of a different class' gun. Why wont you do things like this? This game is a bloated mess in a good way. There is no "balance" and the lore is all over the place. Just let us freakin play like ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in. Imagine actually thinking you can take on an entire army with a pistol but you're a smuggler by trade. Stop this madness. Your designs make no sense. 

They never lied about how the combat styles would work.  Players took the information and started interpreting it to be what they wanted to happen. 

[jedimasterjac]

1 hour ago, wombatjake said:

Simple solution to fixing the LIE the devs told players regarding how dual classing would work:

How many times do we have to tell you they didn’t lie? The system is EXACTLY how they announced and described it. 

[Ardrossan]

3 hours ago, wombatjake said:

And again, enough with your weapon restrictions. The animations are all there for any tech to use any gun and still use the same "ammo" that class uses coming out of a different class' gun. 

Actually no the animations aren't all there. If you're a tech class in cut scenes you always use a default blaster pistol regardless of what your actual weapon is. This has been the case since launch. iirc they tried to fix this at one point and for literal years we had characters holding empty hands instead, and this bug still happens sometimes. That should tell you that they can't just flip a button and make your idea work.

 

3 hours ago, wombatjake said:

There is no "balance" and the lore is all over the place. Just let us freakin play like ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in. Imagine actually thinking you can take on an entire army with a pistol but you're a smuggler by trade. Stop this madness. Your designs make no sense. 

Speaking of making no sense. I'm guessing it's "yadda yadda my smuggler doesn't smuggle anything"? Don't overthink why the classes are the way they are, bioware certainly didn't  

[eabevella]

BW could have learned some better writing skill but they didn't lie about combat styles.

They also cleared up the confusion before 7.0. At least if people read what they posted.

[farren_whyde]

16 hours ago, wombatjake said:

Simple solution to fixing the LIE the devs told players regarding how dual classing would work:

1.) Divide force and tech users as it is. 
2.) Each has 4 base skills 
   A) Tech would have a grenade for knockdown/knock back, a cable that all bounty hunters and I would assume most saavy tech warriors would have to pull enemies to them and use also as a hold skill at a certain range, like within 3 feet, and a leap-to-enemy skill of course. 

   B) Force users would have push, pull, leap, and throw saber. These are basic things literally force sensitive babies can do. Im so tired of this. It has been 12 years and you haven't come up with a solution  or even lore explaining why force users are so inept. And letting us use push and pull in cutscenes but not all classes get it in game is ludicrous.

And again, enough with your weapon restrictions. The animations are all there for any tech to use any gun and still use the same "ammo" that class uses coming out of a different class' gun. Why wont you do things like this? This game is a bloated mess in a good way. There is no "balance" and the lore is all over the place. Just let us freakin play like ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in. Imagine actually thinking you can take on an entire army with a pistol but you're a smuggler by trade. Stop this madness. Your designs make no sense. 

Reading your post, you're getting your idea of what 'Star Wars' is and what the game 'SWTOR' is completely entwined and messed-up.

And none of this is 'lore'. It's a decade-old game which had defined styles and stories - and it came out before Disney wiped the slate. You seem really entrenched in your beliefs of what is realistic in-game. Well, it's a game. It doesn't have to strictly abide by 'lore' and 'canon' - it has to be fun, entertaining and accessible. Suspend your disbelief?

BW never lied about combat styles.

You're new here, aren't you?

[jedimasterjac]

2 minutes ago, farren_whyde said:

Reading your post, you're getting your idea of what 'Star Wars' is and what the game 'SWTOR' is completely entwined and messed-up.

People have been doing this for years. I don’t understand why so many people can’t accept that this game just isn’t going to be - and never was going to be - Galaxies or some sandbox mmo or whatever other pet project. 

[farren_whyde]

1 minute ago, jedimasterjac said:

People have been doing this for years. I don’t understand why so many people can’t accept that this game just isn’t going to be - and never was going to be - Galaxies or some sandbox mmo or whatever other pet project. 

Yeah... I know. Funny how they never seem to learn 'detachment' if lore is so important to them...

[Toraak]

18 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

They never lied about how the combat styles would work.  Players took the information and started interpreting it to be what they wanted to happen. 

This is 100% correct. I watched the Livestream 10 times, and the inaccuracies the players were claiming BW said about Combat style were nuts. We got exactly what BW told us we'd get.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

23 hours ago, wombatjake said:

Simple solution to fixing the LIE the devs told players regarding how dual classing would work:

The only people telling lies about what the DEVs told players about 'dual classing' is you. Apparently, you think this game is D&D, it isn't. You don't even know what dual classing means. Dual classing means you have experience (levels) in multiple classes and at a certain point you are able to use abilities from both classes simultaneously, which you can't ever do in this game. You are one or the other, and you totally forget how to do everything you could when you switch back and forth. You have access to only one classes abilities at a time. They have never said it would anything other than that.

 

23 hours ago, wombatjake said:

And again, enough with your weapon restrictions.

I do agree with you here, I think there should be an easing of weapon restrictions. There still should be some weapon restrictions though. I.E.  A marauder could a double-bladed Lightsaber or a regular saber, okay fine, that makes sense. Or, a Trooper can use a blaster rifle, an auto canon, or a blaster. (Vanguards can already use a vibro-knife).

 

23 hours ago, wombatjake said:

There is no "balance" and the lore is all over the place. Just let us freakin play like ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in.

Okay, enough of this nonsense. This game is not real Star Wars. It's never been real Star Wars, it will never be real Star Wars. When Lucas owned Star Wars, these games were never a part of the Canon, he did not consider them legitimate, he said, they were just games. Don't take my word for it, here's something's he said.

 

"George Lucas says there has never been any war between the Jedi and the Sith in his Star Wars Canon" - An excerpt from StarWars.com‘s oral history of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace:

Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.”  Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2000 years ago.  Each Sith has an apprentice, but the problem was, each Sith Lord got to be  powerful. And the Sith Lords would try to kill each other because they all  wanted to be the most powerful. So in the end they killed each other off, and  there wasn’t anything left.

"But anyway, there’s a whole matrix of backstory that has never really come out. It’s really just history that I gathered up along the way. It’s all based on backstories that I’d written setting up what the Jedi were, setting up what the Sith were, setting up what the Empire was, setting up what the Republic was, and how it all fit together I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part."

George Lucas’ vision of the galaxy’s ancient times is clearly different from the Expanded Universe. Many wars between Jedi and Sith in the Old Republic era were told in games, books and comics.'

https://naboonews.wordpress.com/2019/05/25/george-lucas-says-there-has-never-been-any-war-between-the-jedi-and-the-sith-in-his-canon/

...

George Lucas on the Sith and the Rule of Two in The Star Wars Archives, Eps I-III 1999-2005

"The Rule of Two"

George Lucas: "There was never a war between the Jedi and the Sith Lords. The Sith Lords were in control for a long time. And what happens when you have a world full of Sith Lords? They start killing each other to see who's going to be the top Sith Lord. They don't vote;they just kill. It's like a medieval feudal system.

    There may have been thousands or millions of them and eventually, after 100 or 150 years, they killed everyone except for two. And the more powerful of the two decided, "You're my apprentice, I'm your master, I will pass on my knowledge to you and keep the dark side of the Force alive." But he would keep a close eye on his apprentice.

    But the arrangement never worked because the apprentice was constantly trying to recruit another person so that the two of them together could be more powerful than their master - they could kill him and take over. Likewise, the master is also looking for another apprentice, so that he could keep the first apprentice in line. The Rule of Two ensures that if there's more than two, they'll kill each other until there are two left."

~ George Lucas

The Star Wars Archives Eps I-III 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan

https://ibb.co/yRLmLHB
 

...

Moraband, as seen in "Sacrifice"

"Sacrifice" features the first appearance of Moraband, the homeworld of the Sith, in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. During story development, George Lucas decided that he preferred the name "Moraband" over the previously used "Korriban", and thus the planet is referred to as such in the episode. 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sacrifice

..

“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."

~ George Lucas Interview, Cinescape Magazine, 2002
 

..

"But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”

  ~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, Oct. 2nd 2012
 

..

 

"What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate."

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator for Lucas Licensing, SYFY WIRE Fandom Files #13 Interview,Jan.2018

https://ibb.co/r2SvbBP

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-star-wars-authors-work-with-lucasfilm-and-earn-creative-control

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fandom-files/star-wars-lucasfilms-top-1ghtoZ6lQ8r/

..

Pablo Hidalgo on Lucas's thoughts on some of the game and books material.

"One of the odd things we have to live with is even though George okayed the mention of great ancient battles between Jedi and Sith in the (unfinished) Utapau arc of Clone Wars, he never loved the Expanded Universe ideas of such battles. He said as much a few years ago:"

"Everybody said, 'Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.' - Well, that never happened. That was just made up by fans or somebody."

https://ibb.co/0y7KwGt

..

“Kyber crystals are clear.  They’re not like, oh, here’s a blue one.  I know that’s been in some games, but as George described it, that’s not how it works.  Because then anyone could have found them easily and they’re very difficult to find.  That’s why Ilum is an ice cave–you can’t tell the ice from the crystals if you’re an average person.  So there’s the Force kind of protecting itself as nature tends to from time to time.”  

~ Dave Filoni, “Ahsoka’s Untold Tales” panel, SWCE 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS4sclln5J4

..

"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it."

Dave Filoni interview on 'The Star Wars show' [41.40 mark]- 

https://youtu.be/hcNXPNXOv2A?t=2500

.......

"While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."

~ Lucasfilm, 2014
 

 

.......

There's 100s more quotes. So please, with the 'lore' and 'Star Wars characters'. This game is Star Wars-Esque, but it ain't Star Wars. It makes a mockery of George Lucas's Star Wars. It's okay to like it, its okay to love it, there are no right or wrong opinions and if the stories and 'game lore' are important to you or anyone else, okay, that's fine, but they ain't doin anything different than they've always been and I am far from the only person here who's been playing the game for 10+ years. There's a reason why you see people on the boards always sighting 'head-canon'. That's because that's the only canon you've ever been able to get in this game. 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  As a life long, hardcore, old school Star Wars fan, I don't have opinions about Star Wars. I just have George Lucas and I'm definitely taking his word for it.

If others don't share my views, that's their right and they're free to do so.

And as one of the other posters so eloquently stated, it's just a game, take it for what it's worth. Its just about entertainment and having some fun. 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[SteveTheCynic]

2 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

The only people telling lies about what the DEVs told players about 'dual classing' is you.

Nah.  wombat is far from the first to rail about how BioWare lied about stuff to do with combat styles, but wombat is just as wrong about it as the others were.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Nah.  wombat is far from the first to rail about how BioWare lied about stuff to do with combat styles, but wombat is just as wrong about it as the others were.

As usual, you're quite right. Now that you mention it, I have seen other's express that view (and got shot down just like this guy). 

Don't you ever get tired of being right all the time? =p

Edited May 12, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Bigfallenstar]

6 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

The only people telling lies about what the DEVs told players about 'dual classing' is you. Apparently, you think this game is D&D, it isn't. You don't even know what dual classing means. Dual classing means you have experience (levels) in multiple classes and at a certain point you are able to use abilities from both classes simultaneously, which you can't ever do in this game. You are one or the other, and you totally forget how to do everything you could when you switch back and forth. You have access to only one classes abilities at a time. They have never said it would anything other than that.

 

I do agree with you here, I think there should be an easing of weapon restrictions. There still should be some weapon restrictions though. I.E.  A marauder could a double-bladed Lightsaber or a regular saber, okay fine, that makes sense. Or, a Trooper can use a blaster rifle, an auto canon, or a blaster. (Vanguards can already use a vibro-knife).

 

Okay, enough of this nonsense. This game is not real Star Wars. It's never been real Star Wars, it will never be real Star Wars. When Lucas owned Star Wars, these games were never a part of the Canon, he did not consider them legitimate, he said, they were just games. Don't take my word for it, here's something's he said.

 

"George Lucas says there has never been any war between the Jedi and the Sith in his Star Wars Canon" - An excerpt from StarWars.com‘s oral history of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace:

Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.”  Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2000 years ago.  Each Sith has an apprentice, but the problem was, each Sith Lord got to be  powerful. And the Sith Lords would try to kill each other because they all  wanted to be the most powerful. So in the end they killed each other off, and  there wasn’t anything left.

"But anyway, there’s a whole matrix of backstory that has never really come out. It’s really just history that I gathered up along the way. It’s all based on backstories that I’d written setting up what the Jedi were, setting up what the Sith were, setting up what the Empire was, setting up what the Republic was, and how it all fit together I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part."

George Lucas’ vision of the galaxy’s ancient times is clearly different from the Expanded Universe. Many wars between Jedi and Sith in the Old Republic era were told in games, books and comics.'

https://naboonews.wordpress.com/2019/05/25/george-lucas-says-there-has-never-been-any-war-between-the-jedi-and-the-sith-in-his-canon/

...

George Lucas on the Sith and the Rule of Two in The Star Wars Archives, Eps I-III 1999-2005

"The Rule of Two"

George Lucas: "There was never a war between the Jedi and the Sith Lords. The Sith Lords were in control for a long time. And what happens when you have a world full of Sith Lords? They start killing each other to see who's going to be the top Sith Lord. They don't vote;they just kill. It's like a medieval feudal system.

    There may have been thousands or millions of them and eventually, after 100 or 150 years, they killed everyone except for two. And the more powerful of the two decided, "You're my apprentice, I'm your master, I will pass on my knowledge to you and keep the dark side of the Force alive." But he would keep a close eye on his apprentice.

    But the arrangement never worked because the apprentice was constantly trying to recruit another person so that the two of them together could be more powerful than their master - they could kill him and take over. Likewise, the master is also looking for another apprentice, so that he could keep the first apprentice in line. The Rule of Two ensures that if there's more than two, they'll kill each other until there are two left."

~ George Lucas

The Star Wars Archives Eps I-III 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan

https://ibb.co/yRLmLHB
 

...

Moraband, as seen in "Sacrifice"

"Sacrifice" features the first appearance of Moraband, the homeworld of the Sith, in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. During story development, George Lucas decided that he preferred the name "Moraband" over the previously used "Korriban", and thus the planet is referred to as such in the episode. 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sacrifice

..

“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."

~ George Lucas Interview, Cinescape Magazine, 2002
 

..

"But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”

  ~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, Oct. 2nd 2012
 

..

 

"What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate."

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator for Lucas Licensing, SYFY WIRE Fandom Files #13 Interview,Jan.2018

https://ibb.co/r2SvbBP

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-star-wars-authors-work-with-lucasfilm-and-earn-creative-control

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fandom-files/star-wars-lucasfilms-top-1ghtoZ6lQ8r/

..

Pablo Hidalgo on Lucas's thoughts on some of the game and books material.

"One of the odd things we have to live with is even though George okayed the mention of great ancient battles between Jedi and Sith in the (unfinished) Utapau arc of Clone Wars, he never loved the Expanded Universe ideas of such battles. He said as much a few years ago:"

"Everybody said, 'Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.' - Well, that never happened. That was just made up by fans or somebody."

https://ibb.co/0y7KwGt

..

“Kyber crystals are clear.  They’re not like, oh, here’s a blue one.  I know that’s been in some games, but as George described it, that’s not how it works.  Because then anyone could have found them easily and they’re very difficult to find.  That’s why Ilum is an ice cave–you can’t tell the ice from the crystals if you’re an average person.  So there’s the Force kind of protecting itself as nature tends to from time to time.”  

~ Dave Filoni, “Ahsoka’s Untold Tales” panel, SWCE 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS4sclln5J4

..

"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it."

Dave Filoni interview on 'The Star Wars show' [41.40 mark]- 

https://youtu.be/hcNXPNXOv2A?t=2500

.......

"While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."

~ Lucasfilm, 2014
 

 

.......

There's 100s more quotes. So please, with the 'lore' and 'Star Wars characters'. This game is Star Wars-Esque, but it ain't Star Wars. It makes a mockery of George Lucas's Star Wars. It's okay to like it, its okay to love it, there are no right or wrong opinions and if the stories and 'game lore' are important to you or anyone else, okay, that's fine, but they ain't doin anything different than they've always been and I am far from the only person here who's been playing the game for 10+ years. There's a reason why you see people on the boards always sighting 'head-canon'. That's because that's the only canon you've ever been able to get in this game. 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  As a life long, hardcore, old school Star Wars fan, I don't have opinions about Star Wars. I just have George Lucas and I'm definitely taking his word for it.

If others don't share my views, that's their right and they're free to do so.

And as one of the other posters so eloquently stated, it's just a game, take it for what it's worth. Its just about entertainment and having some fun. 

 

So you're one of those who say "If it didn't come from George Lucas himself, then it's not canon." I'm pretty sure some people will argue on that with some of the noteworthy characters. Like Revan. Plus, I'm pretty sure George never got the time to tell those stories he's had because he sold the rights to Disney. We don't know for sure what George had plan for the Old republic if he got down to plotting it out. It could be exactly what's going on, or it could be different. And I'm sure this game is Star Wars. Just because you're not playing as Luke Skywalker or Kyle Katarn and carving a path through stormtroopers and learning mythos about the light side ,dark side, good vs evil, doesn't make it feel any less like Star Wars or this game wouldn't have lasted this long. As people love to point that out over the decisions made for this game.

[eabevella]

I still don't know what OP meant by "ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in"

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

26 minutes ago, eabevella said:

I still don't know what OP meant by "ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in"

I suspect you're not alone in wondering that. heh. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

6 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

So you're one of those who say "If it didn't come from George Lucas himself, then it's not canon." I'm pretty sure some people will argue on that with some of the noteworthy characters. Like Revan. Plus, I'm pretty sure George never got the time to tell those stories he's had because he sold the rights to Disney. We don't know for sure what George had plan for the Old republic if he got down to plotting it out. It could be exactly what's going on, or it could be different. And I'm sure this game is Star Wars. Just because you're not playing as Luke Skywalker or Kyle Katarn and carving a path through stormtroopers and learning mythos about the light side ,dark side, good vs evil, doesn't make it feel any less like Star Wars or this game wouldn't have lasted this long. As people love to point that out over the decisions made for this game.

I'm not the one that said "If it didn't come from George Lucas himself, then it's not canon." He did.

What is or isn't canon was never up to me. There's nothing for anyone to argue about, it isn't up to us.

A lot of fans decide what they think is canon to their sensibilities and their likes. They maybe accept this thing, but not that thing. Head-canon. That's fine. 

I don't head canon anything. I go with what he said.

I accept the fact that Disney Star Wars is technically canon. I hate it, I don't follow it, and I don't partake in it, but I can't say it isn't Official Canon. I can't deny that because it's not up to me. I personally don't accept it, I go with what George Lucas said the canon was because he was the Maker. The 6 films and The Clone Wars series.

..

Regarding Revan - 

Dave Filoni speaking on the removal of the scene with Darth Revan and Darth Bane as Sith Spirits/Ghosts - Speaking of including these characters "that existed in the EU" -

"It was going to be a big deal, bringing these legendary Sith Lords into The Clone Wars, and thus into the world of the George Lucas Star Wars story.[...] I was very apprehensive of this scene, as cool as it was, because of the implication of it, which was that these Sith Lords could seperate themselves from the Force and somehow talk to The Son.That seemed like a big deal. - We sent the reel to George [of the scene in layout form], George watched it, he loved it, thought it was great, but eventually I got a call from George. He said "You know I've been really thinking about this and we should take that scene out with the Sith Lords." - And you know, as disappointing as it was in a way because it would have been cool to have those characters appear in The Clone Wars, it was absolutely the right thing to do, because they just can't exist in that form, they can't exist in that way. But I think it's important for fans to know it was considered, that we went far with it, but in the end, after discussions, it was really George who said "Nah this, ya know, I thought this would be good, I wanted to do something, but it doesn't jive with my bigger explaination of The Force." - And it gives you an insight into the detail in which he gets into these issues with The Force and these concepts of the bigger spiritual aspect of Star Wars. He's very involved in them."

https://www.starwars.com/video/ghosts-of-mortis-episode-featurette

(Obvioiusly he did bring his version of Darth Bane into TCWS later on, but it wasn't actually Darth Bane, it was an illusion.)

This game has tons of darkside Force Ghosts, Revan among them and George Lucas said, there's no such thing.

Lucas said the first Force Ghost ever was Qui-gon Jinn and only Lightsiders can become Force Ghosts. - If you would like to see where that stated, let me know, and I'll be happy to share it with you.

......

That said, People can like or love whatever they want. People can feel whatever they want. If people feel this game is 'Star Wars' by their personal standards, that's their right, and they are entitled to that.  

 I said in my post that "If others don't share my views, that's their right and they're free to do so."

My point was that the OP was making it out like this game had intrinsic validity to the Star Wars Universe and Bioware is messing with that, which, and this is only an academic distinction, but that was never the case. - Lucas, as the Maker, didn't consider it legitimate Star Wars. He denied events that took place in the games as ever having happened. I wasn't speaking for anyone other than George Lucas's view.

What is or isn't 'real' Star Wars to me, is what George Lucas said it is. That doesn't stop me from playing the game and enjoying the game.

One of the best parts of this game is that everyone gets to have their own unique and personal Star Wars universe and story of their making.

It doesn't matter what I think, it doesn't matter what George Lucas thinks, it only matters what each individual thinks and how they approach their game.

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Ardrossan]

It's 2023 and people still talk about George Lucas like he matters anymore smh. He lucked into ANH thanks to the better writing of his editors. If he'd been allowed to write the story the way he wanted to, we'd now be playing a flash gordon fanfic abomination like this. Canon is not solely up to what the creator says it is, it's a collaboration between writers and fans, that extends beyond star wars and is the basis for fanfiction--which again, perfectly describes Lucas' original intention for this franchise. The disney sequels were awful but at least it got the franchise away from him, IDC what he thinks about the rule of two or randomly changing the name of Korriban, he's irrelevant now!

This thread seems like it belongs more in Story and Lore than the main page lol. The canon in this game is generally fine, the biggest problem is that it needs to cater to 1) game mechanics and player expectations.

Game mechanics (for an MMO at least) like 'every class must be equal', 'lightsabers don't beat blasters' etc. Player expectations like the setting and tech base is roughly similar to what you expect star wars to look like, the bad guys fly wedge shaped ships and have almost the same flag as the empire, the sith all look like Darth Vader and Sidious knockoffs, superweapons that can de facto destroy planets, stealthing is common even for ships, etc etc. Then you fast forward to the prequels and wonder why almost nothing has changed in 3000 years. or fast forward to the OT and wonder why everything looks like worn out junk--at least BSG offered an explanation for the tech regression when they rebooted the show. 

 If they had kept the setting to the canon Tales of the Jedi setting, which was basically a Conan fanfic[1], it would have been almost unrecognizable as star wars. bioware gave up on that idea when they made the first kotor game and it was a wise decision imo. So here we are with this game. What's canon takes a backseat to gameplay considerations, and the reason the classes are the way they are is exactly what I just said: appealing to player expectations (archetype star wars roles) and game mechanics (eight unique stories with unique equipment). So yes a bounty hunter can now use whatever gun he wants but a mercenary/pt can ONLY use BPs and that's not going to change, because of the way they set it up. At least it's better than most of this game's history when a BH could only blaster pistols.  

[1] funny how everyone whines about the immaculate perfection of the star wars canon when again and again we see how writers heavily borrowed from other fandoms. You would think that would make fans a little less rigid 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Ardrossan

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, Ardrossan said:

Lucas sucks. He lucked into ANH thanks to the better writing of his editors. If he'd been allowed to write the story the way he wanted to, we'd now be playing a flash gordon fanfic abomination like this. Canon is not solely up to what the creator says it is, it's a collaboration between writers and fans, that extends beyond star wars and is the basis for fanfiction--which again, perfectly describes Lucas' original intention for this franchise. The disney sequels were awful but at least it got the franchise away from him, IDC what he thinks about the rule of two or randomly changing the name of Korriban, he's irrelevant now!

This thread seems like it belongs more in Story and Lore than the main page lol. The canon in this game is generally fine, the biggest problem is that it needs to cater to game mechanics and player expectations. Game mechanics (for an MMO at least) like 'every class must be equal', 'lightsabers don't beat blasters' etc. Player expectations like the setting and tech base is roughly similar to what you expect star wars to look like, the bad guys fly wedge shaped ships and have almost the same flag as the empire, the sith all look like Darth Vader and Sidious knockoffs, superweapons that can de facto destroy planets, stealthing is common even for ships, etc etc. Then you fast forward to the prequels and wonder why almost nothing has changed in 3000 years. or fast forward to the OT and wonder why everything looks like worn out junk--at least BSG offered an explanation for the tech regression when they rebooted the show. 

 If they had kept the setting to the canon Tales of the Jedi setting, which was basically a Conan fanfic[1], it would have been almost unrecognizable as star wars. bioware gave up on that idea when they made the first kotor game and it was a wise decision imo. So here we are with this game. What's canon takes a backseat to gameplay considerations, and the reason the classes are the way they are is exactly what I just said: appealing to fan expectations (archetype star wars roles) and gameplay considerations (eight unique stories with unique equipment). So yes a bounty hunter can now use whatever gun he wants but a mercenary/pt can ONLY use BPs and that's not going to change, because of the way they set it up. At least it's better than most of this game's history when a BH could only blaster pistols.  

[1] funny how everyone whines about the immaculate perfection of the star wars canon when again and again we see how writers heavily borrowed from other fandoms. You would think that would make fans a little less rigid 

I agree with some of what you said, disagreed with other parts.

Where I agree is, the point of the string got sidelined about canon and such and that's mostly my fault for going into such depth about it. So in that vien, I'll make this my last post in this string so it can get back to the main focus of it.

I also agree with you about the Disney Sequel Trilogy. God awful.

I also agree with you in that 

"What's canon takes a backseat to gameplay considerations". 

It's a game, it's about having fun, and things can work in one medium but not necessarily another. They're making up their own stories, and it doesn't have to jive with canon. They're separate and distinct. 

For an ungoing game with developing stores, you don't want to be hemmed in by one persons vision, by one persons standards. Its actual better that the game was outside of the canon.

The stores in this game don't go thru Lucasfilm or are vetted. They let the game tell its own stories in this other universe.

Characters in movies and TV shows, they don't have classes. They don't conform to rigid paper cutout templates. They don't have weapon restrictions. There's no one size fits all and is applicable in the same exact way to all who fall into a certain archtype.

You can't really translate that from one medium to another. Games have stats and statistics and ability scores and combat proficiency choices.

For example, Darth Maul wasn't a stealthful assassin just because in this game double bladed lightsabers are only used by the Assassin/Shadow Class.

Characters in the movies and The Clone Wars series, like the Jedi and Sith for example, they don't all have the same exact powers necessarily, whereas they do in the game if they're the same class/spec.

RPG games MMO, they need order to things. They can't have a million little things that would be different and be able to account for everything and how it may effect the game play. It simplifies things and allows for streamling how combat goes and makes cutscenes easier to create that will apply to the most amount of player experiences.

We don't ever see in the movies or TV shows Jedi teleporting, turning invisible, healing all their wounds in 15 seconds, surrounding themselves in invulnerability bubbles, standing around healing everybody, constantly shooting pebbles at everybody, healing themselves and other people when they stab their enemies with their lightsabers, and being resurrected when they die and than being perfectly healthy 10 seconds after.

..........

The other parts that I disagree with you on, for the sake of not continuing to derail the main intent of this string, I'm cool with just agreeing to disagree.  You're entitled to your opinions even if I don't share them. I didn't mean to derail it, I'm just very passionate about canon and Lucas's vision.

I read a lot of your posts and they usually leave me with a favorable impression of you.

Like I said, I'll make this my last response in this string and let the discussion get back to what was it's main intent.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Ardrossan]

28 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I'm just very passionate about canon and Lucas's vision.

I read a lot of your posts and they usually leave me with a favorable impression of you.

Like I said, I'll make this my last response in this string and let the discussion get back to what was it's main intent.

Yes, agree to disagree. I know many fans center George's interpretation and it's not a hill I'm going to die on fighting it. 

I also feel the same way reading your posts 🥰

What were we talking about again? Er...

On 5/10/2023 at 2:42 PM, wombatjake said:

 This game is a bloated mess in a good way. There is no "balance" and the lore is all over the place. Just let us freakin play like ACTUAL star wars characters in the warrior roles they are in. Imagine actually thinking you can take on an entire army with a pistol but you're a smuggler by trade. Stop this madness. Your designs make no sense. 

oh right