Just so you won't say it wasn't predictable ...

[TrixxieTriss]

5 minutes ago, DWho said:

take a look at some of the sites that have credit seller info. Some people are too eager to make a profit they don't even hide their identity (lots of in game names and how to contact information). You just don't want to acknowledge it is happening.

😂🤣

Seriously, you actually believe what the credit sellers put on their websites to try & legitimise their business 🤦‍♀️

Next you’ll be telling me I’m on their website too or something 😂🤣

Just cause it’s on the web, doesn’t mean it’s true 😉

Edited May 14, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

20 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

😂🤣

Seriously, you actually believe what the credit sellers put on their websites to try & legitimise their business 🤦‍♀️

Next you’ll be telling me I’m on their website too or something 😂🤣

Just cause it’s on the web, doesn’t mean it’s true 😉

They aren't all credit seller websites (in fact most of them aren't). Didn't see your name, though I think you are too smart to go that route anyway (You don't strike me as someone who would sell credits, but others do).

Edited May 14, 2023 by DWho
corrected typos

[Darev]

57 minutes ago, DWho said:

With the number of people bypassing the GTN now, it has lost a lot of it's effectiveness in controlling the economy (you could cut in game rewards to zero and the game would close before it had any impact on the prices of items currently selling off-GTN). The development of alternate currencies (hypecrates and cartel packs) just makes the situation worse as it devalues the credits even more.

The only way, really, around the issue of hypercrates being an alternate currency (which I always thought was a byproduct of the GTN losing users because of the credit cap) is to add a couple zeros to the credit cap on the GTN.   Which, if you read the dev post about the economy updates, they're looking into that as well for a "down the road" update.

 

You also mentioned something about dormant credits being "out of the economy"     That's not a view I share.   The credits are there, whether they're being used or not.

Certainly there are players with billions of credits, active players, who just sit on them because they're just DONE with the whole GTN thing as a whole.   Not because of inflation, but just because they have what they want after 10 years, or more, of accumulating in game items.

Those credits are still there, in the economy as a whole.

 

Now, if you were to say that someone was going to do a server transfer with 4 billion credits per toon...that would fall under my category of system generated credits since the various server economies are segregated.   It would be a reduction from the source server, and an increase on the destination server. 

A coordinated mass server transfer with multiple toons on multiple accounts to the same server...would be a problem.

I imagine (I wasn't paying attention to the game economy at the time) that something similar happened with the server merges that this game went through.   Those new economies took some time to get balanced out.

Once the devs come up with the final ideas and they're implemented, I suspect things will start to balance out.  Until then (12 months, or however long it will take) we'll just have to put up with these little changes as they're introduced into the larger picture.

Even if the quick travel fee is stupid....and it is

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, DWho said:

They aren't all credit seller websites

Then what type of websites are you talking about? 

[StrikePrice]

14 hours ago, Darev said:

The only way, really, around the issue of hypercrates being an alternate currency (which I always thought was a byproduct of the GTN losing users because of the credit cap) is to add a couple zeros to the credit cap on the GTN.   Which, if you read the dev post about the economy updates, they're looking into that as well for a "down the road" update.

 

You also mentioned something about dormant credits being "out of the economy"     That's not a view I share.   The credits are there, whether they're being used or not.

Certainly there are players with billions of credits, active players, who just sit on them because they're just DONE with the whole GTN thing as a whole.   Not because of inflation, but just because they have what they want after 10 years, or more, of accumulating in game items.

Those credits are still there, in the economy as a whole.

 

Now, if you were to say that someone was going to do a server transfer with 4 billion credits per toon...that would fall under my category of system generated credits since the various server economies are segregated.   It would be a reduction from the source server, and an increase on the destination server. 

A coordinated mass server transfer with multiple toons on multiple accounts to the same server...would be a problem.

I imagine (I wasn't paying attention to the game economy at the time) that something similar happened with the server merges that this game went through.   Those new economies took some time to get balanced out.

Once the devs come up with the final ideas and they're implemented, I suspect things will start to balance out.  Until then (12 months, or however long it will take) we'll just have to put up with these little changes as they're introduced into the larger picture.

Even if the quick travel fee is stupid....and it is

I have > 10b which is prob middle of the road these days. I'm not spending anything because all the bad changes that BW is proposing are putting a chill on my spending. I suspect there are lots of people with billions doing the same thing. I've also stopped buying anything from the CM to sell, because nothing is selling. I suspect others are doing the same. So both the credit economy and the CM economy are likely cratering at this point. 

You may say it's only 1 person, just from me, it's cost them hundreds of dollars. Multiply that across lots of people and they are prob bleeding money right now. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by StrikePrice

[Darev]

2 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

I have > 10b which is prob middle of the road these days. I'm not spending anything because all the bad changes that BW is proposing are putting a chill on my spending. I suspect there are lots of people with billions doing the same thing. I've also stopped buying anything from the CM to sell, because nothing is selling. I suspect others are doing the same. So both the credit economy and the CM economy are likely cratering at this point. 

You may say it's only 1 person, just from me, it's cost them hundreds of dollars. Multiply that across lots of people and they are prob bleeding money right now. 

Spending hundreds of dollars at the CM is no small thing.  I did that too at one point, probably 6+ years ago, before I stopped.  I have no doubt there are others.

 

Out of curiosity, WHY are you ,specifically, stopping sales in game and buying from the CM?   I would think you'd want to sell as much as possible for as high a price as possible before they implement 7.3 along with the player to player tax on sales / credit  / item transfers.

[StrikePrice]

6 minutes ago, Darev said:

Spending hundreds of dollars at the CM is no small thing.  I did that too at one point, probably 6+ years ago, before I stopped.  I have no doubt there are others.

 

Out of curiosity, WHY are you ,specifically, stopping sales in game and buying from the CM?   I would think you'd want to sell as much as possible for as high a price as possible before they implement 7.3 along with the player to player tax on sales / credit  / item transfers.

Nobody is buying anything. Nothing. I don't even get ridiculous offers anymore. It's crazy. I can't get rid of the things I have to make room to buy more. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by StrikePrice

[DWho]

19 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Then what type of websites are you talking about? 

Beyond the Discord channels and gamer forums, just about any site that offers to bring buyers and sellers together to buy virtually anything. Some are dedicated to gaming items others are not. It's pretty easy to tell the pros from the amateurs on those sites. Not that long ago, someone posted their credit balance in a screenshot (which was either from their legacy bank or a guild bank based on the amount) too show how much they had available to sell, but weren't really careful with what they cropped and ended up posting a portion of their open in game mailbox which contained mail that would be unlikely to be found with a professional credit seller. Perhaps not ironclad, but very suggestive of a "wealthy" player attempting to sell credits rather than an actual professional credit seller.

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

I have > 10b which is prob middle of the road these days. I'm not spending anything because all the bad changes that BW is proposing are putting a chill on my spending. I suspect there are lots of people with billions doing the same thing. I've also stopped buying anything from the CM to sell, because nothing is selling. I suspect others are doing the same. So both the credit economy and the CM economy are likely cratering at this point. 

You may say it's only 1 person, just from me, it's cost them hundreds of dollars. Multiply that across lots of people and they are prob bleeding money right now. 

What server are you on?

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, DWho said:

Beyond the Discord channels and gamer forums, just about any site that offers to bring buyers and sellers together to buy virtually anything. Some are dedicated to gaming items others are not. It's pretty easy to tell the pros from the amateurs on those sites. Not that long ago, someone posted their credit balance in a screenshot (which was either from their legacy bank or a guild bank based on the amount) too show how much they had available to sell, but weren't really careful with what they cropped and ended up posting a portion of their open in game mailbox which contained mail that would be unlikely to be found with a professional credit seller. Perhaps not ironclad, but very suggestive of a "wealthy" player attempting to sell credits rather than an actual professional credit seller.

Can you give me an example without breaking the forum TOS? 

[eabevella]

8 hours ago, Darev said:

Spending hundreds of dollars at the CM is no small thing.  I did that too at one point, probably 6+ years ago, before I stopped.  I have no doubt there are others.

 

Out of curiosity, WHY are you ,specifically, stopping sales in game and buying from the CM?   I would think you'd want to sell as much as possible for as high a price as possible before they implement 7.3 along with the player to player tax on sales / credit  / item transfers.

I'm just a casual who buy stuffs for space barbie.

Right now the economy is in uncertainty so I buy whatever good deal I see on the GTN and very occasionally on Trade because I don't spend time reading the Trade channel 24/7. I already have most of the CM items I want, I only need to have enough credits to grab good deals when I see one. I don't even buy copies of high value CM items because I'm not a pro seller but I store the good stuffs I don't want to use immediately in the legacy bank because price is dropping rapidly right now but a Twisted Fang is always a Twisted Fang, it will be "high value" no matter what. When the economy is more stable, whether it's stable low (if BW's way of healing the inflation works) or stable high (if BW's way fails), I can use the high value items to exchange into something I want in the future, tax or not.

Maybe not the "smartest" way but I don't have time to deal with in-game stock market.

[Darev]

7 hours ago, eabevella said:

I'm just a casual who buy stuffs for space barbie.

Right now the economy is in uncertainty so I buy whatever good deal I see on the GTN and very occasionally on Trade because I don't spend time reading the Trade channel 24/7. I already have most of the CM items I want, I only need to have enough credits to grab good deals when I see one. I don't even buy copies of high value CM items because I'm not a pro seller but I store the good stuffs I don't want to use immediately in the legacy bank because price is dropping rapidly right now but a Twisted Fang is always a Twisted Fang, it will be "high value" no matter what. When the economy is more stable, whether it's stable low (if BW's way of healing the inflation works) or stable high (if BW's way fails), I can use the high value items to exchange into something I want in the future, tax or not.

Maybe not the "smartest" way but I don't have time to deal with in-game stock market.

I have years' worth of CM items in various toons' cargo holds and pages unclaimed from over the years.  Maybe one day I will have the desire to sort them all out, but not any time soon.

[StrikePrice]

12 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

What server are you on?

SS. Some of the other well-known sellers were complaining about giving up selling for now in the gen chat yesterday. So, I know it's not just me. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by StrikePrice

[TrixxieTriss]

4 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

SS. Some of the other well-known sellers were complaining about giving up selling for now in the gen chat yesterday. So, I know it's not just me. 

I’m surprised more people don’t want to buy things to stock up. 

[StrikePrice]

3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’m surprised more people don’t want to buy things to stock up. 

I was thinking that very thing ... buy before 7.3. Does not seem to be materializing. 

[DawnAskham]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’m surprised more people don’t want to buy things to stock up. 

Prices are falling and the developers have been clear they plan to keep up efforts to deflate the economy (with some really stupid ideas being implemented), so why buy now when things are likely to be even cheaper later?

I've been around so long that there are very few things I'd bother to buy for myself, I have plenty of credits, plenty of CC, and plenty of random items from materials to rare drops to CM items stuffed in cargo bays.

Why would I buy or sell anything I don't need right this moment (and I certainly don't need more credits) with the current chaos in the economy and Bioware's track record of screwing things up such that predicting the future of the economy is a fool's errand?

I'll just sit it out (both in not playing the economy and in letting my sub lapse again) and see what actually happens in the future. 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by DawnAskham

[TrixxieTriss]

22 minutes ago, DawnAskham said:

Why would I buy or sell anything I don't need right this moment

But you’re not everyone or the average player either I’m guessing. So you’re not really a good example of why people aren’t taking advantage of the lower prices while they can. 

[DawnAskham]

15 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But you’re not everyone or the average player either I’m guessing. So you’re not really a good example of why people aren’t taking advantage of the lower prices while they can. 

Maybe I'm not representative of the average player.

But most players I've talked to in-game seem to share the opinion that prices will continue to fall, so rationally it makes sense they are not buying as they do not believe this is a time to 'take advantage of lower prices' when tomorrow's prices will be even cheaper.

This is also a risk to Bioware's plans...as more players try to sell items to fewer players willing to buy, prices continue to fall and create a negative feedback loop that may hit their own CC sales for some time until the economy reaches a new equilibrium.

Edited May 15, 2023 by DawnAskham

[Darev]

It wouldn't be popular, but the best way for them to increase CM sales is to make Hypercrates and the individual packs BOL.  The items could be tradeable, but only after whoever bought the pack/hypercrate opened them up.

The rare items value would still stay pretty high and people would be able to pick and choose what they want.

[StrikePrice]

3 hours ago, DawnAskham said:

Maybe I'm not representative of the average player.

But most players I've talked to in-game seem to share the opinion that prices will continue to fall, so rationally it makes sense they are not buying as they do not believe this is a time to 'take advantage of lower prices' when tomorrow's prices will be even cheaper.

This is also a risk to Bioware's plans...as more players try to sell items to fewer players willing to buy, prices continue to fall and create a negative feedback loop that may hit their own CC sales for some time until the economy reaches a new equilibrium.

I think this is correct. The issue is that it needs to be "worth it" for people with $ in their pockets to spend it. At 1b/1000cc, it feels "worth it" to me to spend $30 or $50 to sell for credits. If I have 10b+ credits, it's not worth it to spend $50 and only get 800m in return for example. I hypothesize that the equilibrium will be all up lower CM sales. 

 

Sometimes I think the devs are like  "The Producers", but I'm not sure

Edited May 15, 2023 by StrikePrice

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Darev said:

It wouldn't be popular, but the best way for them to increase CM sales is to make Hypercrates and the individual packs BOL.  The items could be tradeable, but only after whoever bought the pack/hypercrate opened them up.

The rare items value would still stay pretty high and people would be able to pick and choose what they want.

Agreed. That would go a long way to putting a dent in using goods as an alternate currency. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[SteveTheCynic]

20 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Agreed. That would go a long way to putting a dent in using goods as an alternate currency. 

I think it would just change what the specific alternate currency was.

[Darev]

4 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

I think it would just change what the specific alternate currency was.

it would make it more difficult.

Lots of people can get packs / hypercrates.

Not as many, nowhere near as many, can get the latest platinum armor set from a pack that they open.  You would, hypothetically, need to have the community decide on something that's directly bought from the CM, like the Black/Black Dye (just as a rather bad but obvious example).

[microstyles]

59 minutes ago, Darev said:

You would, hypothetically, need to have the community decide on something that's directly bought from the CM, like the Black/Black Dye (just as a rather bad but obvious example).

OEM/RPM would be the most likely alternate currency after packs. Maybe even before packs

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

I think it would just change what the specific alternate currency was.

Probably right because People always find a workaround. But Bioware would still have the means to knock that on the head too if they so choose.