The Sniper/Gunslinger Issues Thread

[Psyrion]

I'm in agreement with the OP. I've been playing a Gunslinger since release day, and I've actually had to step away from the class on multiple occasions out of sheer frustration. The cover system is one of the worst experiences I've had with a ranged class in nearly 8 years, and while it's functional, the fact that I can plant myself down say, 10-15 feet in front of an elite mob, order my companion to attack it or pull it myself, and suddenly be unable to see the target that I intentionally placed in front of me without obstruction is ridiculous. One of our primary nukes, "Aimed Shot" cannot be used in 90% of environmental cover, regardless of the placement of the mob. I roll into a spot, charged blast, and start to cast AS, and "Unable to See Target" (while it's directly on the other side of said cover) causes me to have to deselect my target, plant myself in shielded cover in the open, and start fighting all over again. This is provided that my cover triggers prior to my twitch reselection of the target, otherwise I roll DIRECTLY BACK TO THE SAME BUGGED COVER AS BEFORE.

 

That and the fact that I get to blow my GCD resetting cover each and every time just makes me not want to play the class; it's one thing to be forced into a group for heroics, it's entirely different to die repeatedly to an unresponsive UI or a core feature of your class and be unable to solo normal quests without extreme workarounds.

[Strah]

Never had any issues with entrench.

 

I won't stress the fact that you can't be pulled while in cover, i'm not speaking about being pulled while entrenched in cover.

[FROGJOHN]

Super BUMP, so true. All that I needed to rant about was expressed in your post

Elite + 2 mobs

With no heals

REALLY

[Karast]

./bump

 

Its not that the cover system is a horrible idea or that its useless its just that in both PvE and PvP it is a highly situational mechanic. You cannot always afford to be stationary and at times the system is just not practical.

 

A good example is a highly mobile game of huttball. If your pushing in with the ball for your team going for a relay you cannot always afford to stay in cover, and while out of cover you lose access to many of your key abilities, notably the bulk of your CC and burst dps abilities. Which the exception of the stealth classes we are the only ones limited in such a manner when it comes to ability use, and when the exact same abilities are mirrored onto other classes who have no restriction on their usage it causes an imbalance.

 

They can dps and use CC whenever they want. I have to be in cover.

 

But this is a fairly common issue. Classes that are stuck with situational mechanics will always suffer in the long run compared to those with non-situational mechanics. As long as we have abilities that are restricted by the cover system we will have issues, when we get put into situations in PvE and PvP that require constant movement, and unfortunately those situations are fairly common, especially with boss mechanics, we will suffer.

[ducksmyth]

The ground targeted aoes isnt a big deal since you should be leaving cover every 6 seconds to refresh balistic dampners.

 

Leaving cover everytime you get to fire followthrough (also a 6 second cd, has no cover requirement) will increase your survivability quite a lot.

[SandTrout]

Not sure if the gunslingers are having a similar issue, but I have recently noticed that Reactive Shot is non-functional in PvP.

 

I usually open with a snapshot snipe followed by a Ambush in order to take advantage of the quick spike damage in PvP, but the cast time for Ambush is never at the 1.5 mark where is should be with Reactive Shot. After noticing this, I watched my buff-bar and noticed that the Reactive Shot buff widget is never appearing in PvP like it does in my PvE fights.

 

If anyone else could confirm this and possibly update the OP, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Also, if I'm doing something wrong, let me know please.

[Formulka]

I'm in agreement with the OP. I've been playing a Gunslinger since release day, and I've actually had to step away from the class on multiple occasions out of sheer frustration. The cover system is one of the worst experiences I've had with a ranged class in nearly 8 years, and while it's functional, the fact that I can plant myself down say, 10-15 feet in front of an elite mob, order my companion to attack it or pull it myself, and suddenly be unable to see the target that I intentionally placed in front of me without obstruction is ridiculous. One of our primary nukes, "Aimed Shot" cannot be used in 90% of environmental cover, regardless of the placement of the mob. I roll into a spot, charged blast, and start to cast AS, and "Unable to See Target" (while it's directly on the other side of said cover) causes me to have to deselect my target, plant myself in shielded cover in the open, and start fighting all over again. This is provided that my cover triggers prior to my twitch reselection of the target, otherwise I roll DIRECTLY BACK TO THE SAME BUGGED COVER AS BEFORE.

 

That and the fact that I get to blow my GCD resetting cover each and every time just makes me not want to play the class; it's one thing to be forced into a group for heroics, it's entirely different to die repeatedly to an unresponsive UI or a core feature of your class and be unable to solo normal quests without extreme workarounds.

as suggested before, just rebind your cover to fixed cover

so from Shift + F to F and vice versa, you dont have to roll to the cover for it to have full effect, you can just crouch behind it with the portable shield and it still works (as indicated by the green shields on enemies)

and you can still hit Shift + F to roll if you really need it

[Xentacostal]

Bump for sweet, sweet justice.

[TrueDND]

I would first like to say how much I appreciate posts like these. I did notice that there seemed to be a few personal issues against the class, but for the most part this was a very constructive post. Now to continue on:

 

I have very few issues with PvP. For Huttball, every class needs to know their role. For Snipers, it is and forever will be damage. When I play Huttball I do my best to consistently stay on the 3rd tier, preferably on my team's side. When my team has the ball and it has been pushed deep into the other teams territory (let's say, the other teams 35 yard line), I push on their side to help our team get the ball in for a goal. outside of that, I am killing people and picking off the ones with the lowest help to allow for 2 things:

 

1) Reduce the amount of people who will stop/slow our ball carrier

2) Create more opportunities for a Sith Warrior ball carrier to get closer to the goal for their Force Leap

 

By playing this way, there should be little to no reason that you are not topping or at least taking top 4 in dmg charts or for objective points. Any other PvP I still have little problems with unless I am going against any class with 2 sabers or my team is not focusing on the healer and focusing on the person the healer is healing. In short, PvP is a null issue. It is fine and balanced and it is a L2P issue aside from 1 thing that even I will agree is a bug, but it also affects PvE (more on that in a minute).

 

PvE is a COMPLETELY different story. At the end of my chapter 1 quest and the Eagle fight, "Cannot See Target" is the end of a Sniper. Period. Although we are LESS viable (not completely) when we are not in cover, allowing for a classes bread and butter moves during a boss fight is completely uncalled for. Period. It took a good while for me to finish Chapter 1 when it could have been done on the first try. For the 3rd stage of the fight if I wasn't directly on top of the boss I couldn't hit him, whether I was standing or in cover. Very serious bug that should be addressed. I won't even point out the bug everyone is aware of (canceling your Ambush). It doesn't happen too often to me, but it is extremely annoying when it constantly happens after a crit snipe and you can't get your fast Ambush.

 

Now, a bug that honestly should be fixed is something that affects both PvE and PvP, but is more prevelant in PvP as it does allow for this class to be a bit overpowered (I assume the same for Gunslingers as well). This is related to Explosive Probe. Now I get the fact that Snipers need to take aimed shots, so activation is not an issue. It does suck that a 2.5 second snipe is actually about 3.5 seconds since there is a dead period after the activation process, but this bug allows me to account for that. I can drop an Explosive Probe on my target the split second before Snipe or Ambush actually activates. To the time period that we see our activation bar, when it goes away, and the the attack actually takes place, there is a dead period to use another ability which still activates the normal cooldown, but it allows you to easily string together a huge hit, because of Explosive Probe on the target right before the attack initiates, and then hit them with a followthrough. In PvP, that is over almost any characters 50% health and makes a HUGE difference. I have exploited this many a time and I have never been able to do anything like this in any other MMO. Since the probe crits, this to me is a huge issue that should be addressed if they plan on balancing anything in regards to Snipers in PvP.

[Vagrantdogg]

bump bump bump

 

Research done right. TBH, I cancelled my subscription till these things are fixed. How will I know they are fixed? I won't. Bad bugs lose clients.

[Karjak]

bump for great justice

[SandTrout]

bump bump bump

 

Research done right. TBH, I cancelled my subscription till these things are fixed. How will I know they are fixed? I won't. Bad bugs lose clients.

 

The cover cancel bug has been fixed, for the most part at least. I havn't experienced it since the 1.02 patch.

[Yidden]

I have to agree with the OP on PvE Soloing past 30+

 

PVE Soloing from 30+

 

I don't know about you guys but I have a extremely hard time killing elites. I know if there's a cluster of elites I will die. Even if it's a single elite and it's all by itself I have to get the drop in order to kill it. The main problem is not my survivability (Cover Pulse, Leg Shot, CC Nade, and a 30% Absorb shield.) but rather how quick our companion goes down. I've noticed from 30+ that my ranged tank becomes as squishy as I am and she's wearing Tatooine commedation/specialty armor and weps. Even when I throw my smoke nade, use ADprobe, and then refresh/HoT heals I still expect full well to burn the target down to 10-6% then have Kaliyo die I'll grab agg and root the mob then Takedown will be off CD and win. However I just think that as a sniper that's a bit excessive.

 

Point is if I'm doing anything wrong I'd like to know. I open with Laze>Snipe>Followthrough>Ambush>Smoke>Reg Shot>AD Probe>Snipe>Followthrough>Reg Shot>Ambush if Energy is greater than 68>Takedown at 30% or less.

[stealthrider]

Thankyou guys for supporting this thread, hopefully these issues will be resolved. I'll edit the OP to reflect the channeled abilities fix, but will emphasize that that was only one issue--for example, Cover Pulse still rarely works on command.

 

I'd also like to state that I do perform very well in PvP and PvE on my 50 Sniper, and would like to think I know quite a bit about playing the class. None of that changes the fact that the class is not as viable as others in a PvP, solo PvE or raid DPS setting.

 

A perfect example of a PvE fight that absolutely destroys Snipers (moreso than any other class) is the Yadira Ban fight at the end of Hard Mode Black Talon. Yes, her Force Pull affects every class, but only the Sniper needs to reset after moving out of it, instead continuing the assault with instant abilities (too energy intensive for Marksman/Lethality, possibly easier with Engineering) and immediately resuming normal attacks when the attack finishes. It may sound like only a short gap in damage, but with Enrage timers what they are if you have two "average" gear Snipers in the group you might not be able to win that fight.

 

There are many other fights like this that involve area damage, area or random CC, or other movement-encouraging mechanics that really penalize a Sniper for staying in cover long enough to use his channeled abilities. In some of these fights, a "rotation" is just not feasible.

[CtpUK]

+1 Very well thought out post

 

The real annoyances for me with the Sniper class are the fact that we need to be stationary to use 80% of our abilities. Makes PvP a nightmare, and from what I hear, Operations don't allow for this all that much either.

 

"Cannot See Target" - random issues with sight, even though the mob is clearly in range and not hiding behind any visible objects.

 

I have also had a problem where I press to go into cover, and whether it be due to lag or something else, the GCD just runs and I am left spamming the button until the game finally catches up (which can be more than 5 seconds) This does not happen with my other channelled abilities. When in a fight, it leaves me helpless.

Edited January 8, 2012 by CtpUK

[SandTrout]

+1 on CtpUK's problem. The non-responsiveness of Take Cover/Crouch in PvP is a serious issue for the class's viability, especially considering that many key abilities require us to be in that cover, namely our CC protection.

[Hickkid]

I don't really have much experience in pvp so I won't speak to that, but in pve the only problems I've had are when my companion goes down I die quickly, and sometimes when I hit cover I roll to a weird place and can't see the person I'm trying to target. I also agree that it shouldn't be so easy to pull gunslingers out of cover, and we need more abilities that can be used out of cover.

 

I still love playing the character though and over all gunslinger is a great class to play. I don't find staying stationary for cover to be much of a disadvantage in pve as long as my group has a good tank.

[Renshall]

I so agree with this...bumping to get the devs to hopefully see it. I just hit 42 with my GS and MAN I die so much!! Ive spent all my money on trying to get the "right" companion to help and nothing works...the darn AOE thing is horrible...those flame balls are basically instant death.

 

And what the hell is the deal with class quests that are guaranteed death even when you outlevel them by several levels? It's literally made me want to quit the game several times.

 

I wonder if these mechanics will get changed at all? It seems like there are so many things wrong with this class that they'd literally have to re-design it to get it to work.

 

This is pretty disheartening since up to about level 40 or so, this was a pretty fun class!

[GloomySmile]

Rly guys you are doing smthing wrong. I got no problems at all my way from 10 to 43 on my main sniper. Yes, Kaliyo dies fast, but most of times she can survive till boss got 1/6 hp. And she`s most green stuffed. All Gold and Boss story mobs same lvl as you can be killed. Never had a serios problems with that.

 

Yes, after movies you got a bad position, flash bang? You got 8 seconds to prepare.

Use skills smart - always be 60% + energy, learn your rotations...

 

All this problems with animations - yes we got that, but its not that huge thing, how many ppl are acting about. Well 1 of my 15 ambushes wont cast properly, w/e on PVE i got the space for a little fail when fighting bosses and still kill em. AoS problem - believe me or not - i had that thing only like 20 times for all that time, on an open terrain, not fatal.

 

The most funny thing is that buggs are not so bad - casting 4 times in a row SoS without a cd is funny... and i got this more often then not casting at all problem.

 

PVP AoS? Be rdy to it, ppl know what Sniper is capable of, and ofc they will abuse it. Just change a target, if you chase em - you'll die.

 

It`s not so bad after all. It`s playable and enjoyable. And ofc soon they will fix that - just give em some time, they got plenty other things to work on.

Edited January 17, 2012 by GloomySmile

[togabot]

Bumping. I love the idea of my sniper but I really feel like the most useless member of a warzone and severely hindered in boss fights where I need to constant avoid danger or move to new targets.

 

In warzones all the sprints, pulls, pushes, knockbacks and other motion moves make a squishy sniper forced to squat in place worthless. Its unrealistic to expect someone to stand still in pvp/flashpoints/operations. And you do need cover, no matter what your spec is.

 

I feel like they need some sort of mobile cover and mobile casting.

[tennui]

The main quality of life issues in my experience are canceled casts (if I'm being attacked by melee and my ambush fails, I'm basically guaranteed to die), entrench being on GCD (a badly timed entrench is disastrous) and cover. Most of the cover issues have been addressed already, but man they're bad.

[SageH]

As for pve, it can be annoying at times, but hardly a problem. As long as you time your skills and judge the mob correctly you can take down anything short of a champion. Heck I can kill some golds with the fish with barely any damage if I do things perfectly. Medium armor is just right with the additional 20% gained from cover. As I said before, I've only had trouble with mobs rarely. As for flashpoints and the like, the solution seems simple to me. Stay away from the boss. If your group is doing it right your tank should be getting beat up, not you. I can't recall the last time a boss pulled me and when it happens its usually the tanks fault for not keeping aggro and I suppose mine for doing so much damage >.>

 

You obviously haven't done many OPs. There are a ton of bosses that ground slam/grapple/knock back whatever the Sniper/Gunslinger out of cover quite often. First boss of Kargath's Palace for instance I'm out of cover a LOT in that fight. The two Bounty Hunter bosses throw crap on the ground at me, grapple me and kick me forcing me out of cover.

 

HM FP's are much the same. While i appreciate the thought of the cover system, it's clunky at best and something that should/will get scrapped as a general required mechanic at worst.

[Renroval]

What I'm afraid of is how snipers/gunslingers become pointless in HM FPs and OPs. Why bring one if other classes can provide similar if not better DPS while providing better support? It seems pointless to ever bring a sniper/gunslinger.

[nichtganz]

Three things in this thread i can agree with that need to be addressed.

 

1. Skill delay: I cant tell you how many times skills don't properly activate, or cancel themselves.

 

2. Entrench: Blatant lack of consistency.

 

3. LoS: Casts need to be made so they cant be Los'd, once the cast starts it's a done deal, set in stone.

[Jcirone]

Even in PVE when im grinding out quests Snipe does not make ambush activate 1 second faster 100% of the time its more like 13%. What do I do, I have cover bound to my middle mouse button and it still doesnt work, snap shot works 100% of the time though.