Dear EA, a simple solution to the inflation problem in swtor. (Economy Fix)

[BlackySchwarz]

It's quite simple actually (maybe too simple lol). Make an update where you take away credits from every single player/ account in the game, in a fair/ equal manner. (Start slow)

 

1. Lets say we have players with these below listed amounts of credits, who represent the entire playerbase (for this example):

    1. Playe: 2.000.000.000 ; 2. Player 35000 ; 3. Player 12.932.563

2 Now we remove a fair amount of credits from all of these players. To make it easy let's say we divide for everyone by 10. Announce this weeks before you do it and await feedback. That would leave the players with:

    1. Player = 200.000.000 ; 2. Player = 3500 ; 3. Player = 1.293.256,3

3 Player 2 has barely any money left now. To prevent players who didnt have too much credits from losing everything, lets add a cap. Lets say everyone may keep at least 3000 credits. 

4 Now you await the players feedback. The richer are less rich but it still did not have much of an impact so lets make another patch where we divide by 10 again. So the players now have:

    1. Player = 20.000.000 ; 2. Player = 3000 (he hit the cap) ; 3. Player = 129325,63

5 Await for players feedback. Player 2 barely lost anything now and can actually gain an realistic and immersive ingame amount of money through missions, pvp, killing mobs, etc (though he didnt have much credits to begin with, he is still at the bottom of the food chain. Player 1 will still feel like he is rich but of course he feels the impact now. Player 3 still has a good amount of money but won't really feel rich any longer. He might start to complain at this point, but through logical arguments, the realization that this is for the greater good of the game and that it  will benefit him in the end as well, he will start accepting the Economy updates. The prices on the GTM will lower, since people can't afford items for billions anymore and credits will have more value. Of course some missions will need the payout adapted to the updates.

6 The game might need another update at this point. Lets divide by 10 again.

   1. Player = 2.000.000 ; 2. Player = 3000 (he hit the cap) ; 3. Player = 12932,56

7 Player 2 and Player 3 are now able to realistically reach the fortune of Player 1. Player 3 will still be and feel a bit more wealthy than player 2 and player 1 will still be rich but a reasonable and reachable rich.

8 There is also a solution with the ultra mega wealthy. Before we remove money from all of the players for the first time, we have implemented a cap for the really poor players (3000 credits). With that in mind we will also have to add a cap for these mega wealthy guys. Lets say everyone who has more than 10.000.000.000 (billion) credits, will be capped to that amount. So if we there was a Player 4 with 40 Billion credits he would be limited to 10billion. 

After the 3 Economy updates and the cap he would be left with:

    4 Player 40.000.000.000 --> 10.000.000.000 (cap) --> 10.000.000 (3 updates)

9 So the final numbers of all Players would be:

   1. Player = 2.000.000 ; 2. Player = 3000 (he hit the cap) ; 3. Player = 12932,56 ; Player 4 10.000.000

Again, the rich would still be rich but nothing too unrealistic and all the players and the game would be helped immensely. After 3 months of the Players  playing normally with no economy mess ups by the devs the game might look like this.

   1.Player = 2.130.000 ; 2. Player = 154000 ; 3. Player = 560020 ; 4. Player = 10.492.000

 

In my subjective opinion, a fix to the economy would be as simple as this. Even though some players might not fully love losing quite a chunk of there overall wealth. It would definetly be better for the games future and for the future of the player base.

 

TLDR: Add caps for rich and poor Player, for an economy update in which you equally remove credits from the player base. Slowly removing update by update, while awaiting community feedback. 

[Darcmoon]

I think doing this would kill the game.  I know I would quit if they just wiped out part of my money.  I think enough others would also that they would have to shut down.

[LtBabyLucien]

Rather than putting a cap on the players' money--which is used for travel and gear in the game and not just on the GTN--if you really want to affect the cost of GTN items, there should be a cap on the max price something can be. The caps listed here are unrealistic. They're especially unrealistic considering the millions of credits one needs to get some of the strongholds. I'm more of a story mode player, so it took me a while to earn enough credits for the Tatooine stronghold. It'll take me even longer to earn enough for Rishi or Yavin 5 if I end up deciding I more than mildly want them. Credits go pretty quickly when you're doing outfit unlocks and changes, stronghold purchases, get decorations for the strongholds, hop around a lot doing solo play or with friends, and they'll go EVEN FASTER now if SWTOR keeps the "credits for QT" they just implemented (which I hate).

I personally don't care about the relative wealth of players. It's a game. I'm not competing with these people for housing and a job. In an MMORPG where things change often and frequently, it doesn't make sense to put a cap on credits like there was a cap in ME3. There's an unlimited stock of gear from NPC vendors. If you don't do a lot of GTN use because of the costs, it's not a big loss. I don't want a cap on my credits that I use almost purely for interaction with the world of SWTOR and rarely with the GTN. That's the main reason why I buy a subscription when I play. I work hard for my real-life money that I use to buy a subscription. There'd be no point to buying a subscription if they still imposed a credit cap.

[Jdast]

Blackyschwarz,

If Bioware adopted your proposal...

I would put down my Alderaanian Nectar martini so fast, proceed to Steam's manage subscriptions page, click unsubscribe and never look back.

This would be an insta-quit for me. Equality in percentage reductions is not anything close to equality in terms of actual credits -- credits I have earned legitimately through mechanisms Bioware has authorized for years now. Your proposal would cure inflation by imposing repeated draconian reductions and a completely arbitrary cap. It would do so, however, only because there would no trading economy to speak of. Sort of like curing a headache by removing the head.

I concur in full with Darcmoon's assessment that this would kill the game -- at least it would for me. Fortunately, I like Elder Scrolls Online and would devote / invest my entire MMORPG playing time and resources there.

Dasty

Edit: In this thread (and in others), some people have suggested that I am only "threatening" to quit if Bioware adopts what amounts essentially to a credit wipe.

My response: Try me. I don't play poker because I don't bluff (I'm terrible at it); i.e., it's not a threat, it's a promise.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Jdast

[Exocor]

Breaking News: Rich people don't like to be not as rich anymore. More news at 11.

 

I'm considering myself modestly wealthy. Not at all in the leagues I want to be, but I have enough money earned from Sale Raids back in 5.x that it still constitutes a decent amount of credits three years later. But I know that, while this money has been acquired "officially legally", most of it originated either from Credit Exploits, washed through the GTN or from Credit Sellers - the people we sold to did not appear to be the brightest candles on the christmas tree that I don't believe that they got a lot of credits using the GTN. Credit Sellers are more likely here.

 

So, let's try to compare the current issues with a real world example: Imagine, there was a criminal clan that was able to manufacture counterfeit money perfectly, that no one was able to discover it for a long time. It went so far, that after some time, 90% of everyone's wealth consisted of that counterfeit money. At that point, the government found a way to detect those counterfeit notes. You are now arguing, that this counterfeit money should be kept in the system, so that you can keep your wealth, because you personally didn't engage in any criminal activity? And if it is removed, you plan to move to another country?

 

But let's be real: What will this change do? In my opinion, it would change the numbers in your credit inventory and your legacy cargo. Nothing else. Instead of 100 billion being a lot, 10 million will be a lot. Enough to afford anything. Only difference is that the steps to obtain that amount of wealth will be easier to take. People can actually do Daily Missions for Credits again (not that I would). People would kill money bosses in Operations again (maybe I would do that). And people would find creative ways to not spend credits on necessities like quick travel (I would definitely do that). The ultra-wealthy would still be ultra-wealthy. They would still be able to afford anything and everything. The proposed measures are still very fair - we're not taling about capping credits at 100million for everyone. We're talking about removing a percentage of everyone's money. So the relative difference of money-ownership between players will stay exactly the same.

And even more: If you know about that in advance, you can invest all your money into items in the game. You can buy all the Cartel Items off the GTN. You can buy all the strongholds, all the extensions, you can buy guild flagships for several guilds and sell them afterwards if necessary. The proposal is one that inherently favors those that have money and gives them every opportunity to not only keep, but expand the relative difference between them and those that don't have money. You would still, effectively, be able to afford anything, dictate trade (because you have most of the item-supply and most of the money).

 

So, what would, exactly, be changed here? Two things:

1. Credit Sellers would be less important to those that don't have money. If you can farm a million within a few days, you don't need to buy it.

2- Ingame credit-sinks (like Strongholds, Companion Gifts, Repairs...) would have more of an effect on the economy. But then again: Not on the still-ultra-wealthy. You'd still be able to afford everything easily.

 

That makes those complaints from the ultra-wealthy actually very interesting. You're the one only losing some green numbers on black background, but none of the perks that come with it. Everyone else is losing most, if not all of the perks - but just very few of the numbers. And yet, you're the loudest voices here, threating to quit the game over nothing.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Exocor

[SteveTheCynic]

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

It's quite simple actually (maybe too simple lol). Make an update where you take away credits from every single player/ account in the game, in a fair/ equal manner. (Start slow)

Yes, that would end the credits problem.  Two years later, you'd see people on forums saying, "What happened to SWTOR?" and being answered, "Isn't that the one that stole everybody's money?"

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

2 Now we remove a fair amount of credits from all of these players. To make it easy let's say we divide for everyone by 10. Announce this weeks before you do it and await feedback. That would leave the players with:

The feedback would be, "You do that, I quit," from more or less everyone who saw the announcement.  And, "Where the Farble did my credits go?" (finds out) "I quit." from the people who didn't see the announcement, and found out when they logged in on the day after it was done.

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

    1. Player = 200.000.000 ; 2. Player = 3500 ; 3. Player = 1.293.256,3

3 Player 2 has barely any money left now. To prevent players who didnt have too much credits from losing everything, lets add a cap. Lets say everyone may keep at least 3000 credits. 

4 Now you await the players feedback. The richer are less rich but it still did not have much of an impact so lets make another patch where we divide by 10 again. So the players now have:

Yeah, good move.  Steal 90% of what's left.  Nice.

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

    1. Player = 20.000.000 ; 2. Player = 3000 (he hit the cap) ; 3. Player = 129325,63

5 Await for players feedback.

Much of the feedback at that point would be summed up as "FOAD."

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

Player 2 barely lost anything now and can actually gain an realistic and immersive ingame amount of money through missions, pvp, killing mobs, etc (though he didnt have much credits to begin with, he is still at the bottom of the food chain. Player 1 will still feel like he is rich but of course he feels the impact now. Player 3 still has a good amount of money but won't really feel rich any longer. He might start to complain at this point, but through logical arguments, the realization that this is for the greater good of the game and that it  will benefit him in the end as well, he will start accepting the Economy updates. The prices on the GTM will lower, since people can't afford items for billions anymore and credits will have more value. Of course some missions will need the payout adapted to the updates.

6 The game might need another update at this point. Lets divide by 10 again.

Two of the three remaining players would quit.

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

In my subjective opinion, a fix to the economy would be as simple as this. Even though some players might not fully love losing quite a chunk of there overall wealth.

"Quite a chunk" is a catastrophic understatement when you mean "99.9% or more"

[Traceguy]

Taking away money from people who have it just because you have none is evil, and not the way to fix anything. The economy isn't broke. I've been here since the release of the ROTHC/F2P and the economy has never been better. When SHs were first released, I couldn't afford to open more than 3 rooms in Dromund Kaas. Now I have every stronghold and room because I can afford it quickly under the new economy. 

You people fail to realize the economy is a 2 way street. Yes buying things from players costs more money now, but that means selling things to players makes more money now. NPC vendors haven't raised their prices. That means you can only make more credits now than in the old days.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Traceguy

[BlackySchwarz]

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Traceguy:

Taking away money from people who have it just because you have none is evil, and not the way to fix anything. The economy isn't broke. I've been here since the release of the ROTHC/F2P and the economy has never been better. When SHs were first released, I couldn't afford to open more than 3 rooms in Dromund Kaas. Now I have every stronghold and room because I can afford it quickly under the new economy. 

You people fail to realize the economy is a 2 way street. Yes buying things from players costs more money now, but that means selling things to players makes more money now. NPC vendors haven't raised their prices. That means you can only make more credits now than in the old days.

I do not fail to realize that economy is a 2 way street. I think you fail to realize that making something easy and accesible to everyone takes the value out of something. If everyone can now easily obtain a Stronghold but couldn't before, that means that the value of it is lower than before. It can of course still be cool to have, but it is not special anymore to have it since anyone can afford it. 

 

"Taking away money from people who have it just because you have none is evil" Evil is subjective but I believe it would be more evil as a rich guy to not share some of your money with the poor while keeping everything for yourself. All my idea really does is take economic power away from the rich and give more economic power to the poor, which evens things out.... the wealthy will still be wealthy... the gap is just smaller.

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Darcmoon:

I think doing this would kill the game.  I know I would quit if they just wiped out part of my money.  I think enough others would also that they would have to shut down.

And why are you so bound to virtual money that you would quit immediatly after they do this? You still are wealthy if you were wealthy before, just not as much. Is it because you grinded a lot and now you feel like they robbed you? What if they gave you something as ingame compensation?

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb SteveTheCynic:

Yes, that would end the credits problem.  Two years later, you'd see people on forums saying, "What happened to SWTOR?" and being answered, "Isn't that the one that stole everybody's money?"

The feedback would be, "You do that, I quit," from more or less everyone who saw the announcement.  And, "Where the Farble did my credits go?" (finds out) "I quit." from the people who didn't see the announcement, and found out when they logged in on the day after it was done.

Yeah, good move.  Steal 90% of what's left.  Nice.

Much of the feedback at that point would be summed up as "FOAD."

Two of the three remaining players would quit.

"Quite a chunk" is a catastrophic understatement when you mean "99.9% or more"

Interesting take. So this assumes that the majority of the player base is currently playing because of the amount of credits they have in their inventory? Then again this also assumes that the rich won't feel rich enough even after they still have 100millions of credits in their inventory... I mean I have  seen a lot of people "cry" about how bad and inflated the economy is and how hard it is to gain credits without selling stuff in the gtm (since the actual in game mechanics like doing missions, killing mobs, etc., as far as I understood it, don't reward you with many credits).

So your point is "don't do this because some players won't feel rich anymore, and people love the credits more than the actual game"?

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Jdast:

Blackyschwarz,

If Bioware adopted your proposal...

I would put down my Alderaanian Nectar martini so fast, proceed to Steam's manage subscriptions page, click unsubscribe and never look back.

This would be an insta-quit for me. Equality in percentage reductions is not anything close to equality in terms of actual credits -- credits I have earned legitimately through mechanisms Bioware has authorized for years now. Your proposal would cure inflation by imposing repeated draconian reductions and a completely arbitrary cap. It would do so, however, only because there would no trading economy to speak of. Sort of like curing a headache by removing the head.

I concur in full with Darcmoon's assessment that this would kill the game -- at least it would for me. Fortunately, I like Elder Scrolls Online and would devote / invest my entire MMORPG playing time and resources there.

Dasty

Edit: In this thread (and in others), some people have suggested that I am only "threatening" to quit if Bioware adopts what amounts essentially to a credit wipe.

My response: Try me. I don't play poker because I don't bluff (I'm terrible at it); i.e., it's not a threat, it's a promise.

 "Equality in percentage reductions is not anything close to equality in terms of actual credit" Well of course not.... that is not the point. Money has only value because we give it value. Money is really nothing else than buying power. To "fix" an economy in the sense of inflation one could think of fixing buying power. Or more precise increasing consumer buying power. Essentially all my simple solution does is increase the value of money again by adding buying power to the people who don't have it while taking part of it from the people who have it. 

 

"Your proposal would cure inflation by imposing repeated draconian reductions and a completely arbitrary cap." My bad, I probably didn't make this clear enough in the post. The cap is only there for the money reduction update. The cap is not present in the actual game in my model. So people can still freely lose or gain money after the update as they wish/ can.

 

"Edit: In this thread (and in others), some people have suggested that I am only "threatening" to quit if Bioware adopts what amounts essentially to a credit wipe. My response: Try me. I don't play poker because I don't bluff (I'm terrible at it); i.e., it's not a threat, it's a promise." This sounds a bit to me like a multi billionaire, who lost part of his money and became a multi millionaire, that he is going to hurt himself because he isn't feeling rich enough anymore... but idk maybe I am interpreting too much lol

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb LtBabyLucien:

Rather than putting a cap on the players' money--which is used for travel and gear in the game and not just on the GTN--if you really want to affect the cost of GTN items, there should be a cap on the max price something can be. The caps listed here are unrealistic. They're especially unrealistic considering the millions of credits one needs to get some of the strongholds. I'm more of a story mode player, so it took me a while to earn enough credits for the Tatooine stronghold. It'll take me even longer to earn enough for Rishi or Yavin 5 if I end up deciding I more than mildly want them. Credits go pretty quickly when you're doing outfit unlocks and changes, stronghold purchases, get decorations for the strongholds, hop around a lot doing solo play or with friends, and they'll go EVEN FASTER now if SWTOR keeps the "credits for QT" they just implemented (which I hate).

I personally don't care about the relative wealth of players. It's a game. I'm not competing with these people for housing and a job. In an MMORPG where things change often and frequently, it doesn't make sense to put a cap on credits like there was a cap in ME3. There's an unlimited stock of gear from NPC vendors. If you don't do a lot of GTN use because of the costs, it's not a big loss. I don't want a cap on my credits that I use almost purely for interaction with the world of SWTOR and rarely with the GTN. That's the main reason why I buy a subscription when I play. I work hard for my real-life money that I use to buy a subscription. There'd be no point to buying a subscription if they still imposed a credit cap.

Again, my bad for not making this clear in the first place. The credit cap was only meant for the Credit update. So people could freely gain or lose money afterwards. In other words after the update anyone could spend money and fall below 3500 credits or somehow gain enough money again to pass the 10billion mark.

[Darcmoon]

40 minutes ago, BlackySchwarz said:

And why are you so bound to virtual money that you would quit immediatly after they do this? You still are wealthy if you were wealthy before, just not as much. Is it because you grinded a lot and now you feel like they robbed you? What if they gave you something as ingame compensation?

If Bioware deleted all of your toons and made you start from scratch again would you object?  

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Exocor:

Breaking News: Rich people don't like to be not as rich anymore. More news at 11.

 

I'm considering myself modestly wealthy. Not at all in the leagues I want to be, but I have enough money earned from Sale Raids back in 5.x that it still constitutes a decent amount of credits three years later. But I know that, while this money has been acquired "officially legally", most of it originated either from Credit Exploits, washed through the GTN or from Credit Sellers - the people we sold to did not appear to be the brightest candles on the christmas tree that I don't believe that they got a lot of credits using the GTN. Credit Sellers are more likely here.

 

So, let's try to compare the current issues with a real world example: Imagine, there was a criminal clan that was able to manufacture counterfeit money perfectly, that no one was able to discover it for a long time. It went so far, that after some time, 90% of everyone's wealth consisted of that counterfeit money. At that point, the government found a way to detect those counterfeit notes. You are now arguing, that this counterfeit money should be kept in the system, so that you can keep your wealth, because you personally didn't engage in any criminal activity? And if it is removed, you plan to move to another country?

 

But let's be real: What will this change do? In my opinion, it would change the numbers in your credit inventory and your legacy cargo. Nothing else. Instead of 100 billion being a lot, 10 million will be a lot. Enough to afford anything. Only difference is that the steps to obtain that amount of wealth will be easier to take. People can actually do Daily Missions for Credits again (not that I would). People would kill money bosses in Operations again (maybe I would do that). And people would find creative ways to not spend credits on necessities like quick travel (I would definitely do that). The ultra-wealthy would still be ultra-wealthy. They would still be able to afford anything and everything. The proposed measures are still very fair - we're not taling about capping credits at 100million for everyone. We're talking about removing a percentage of everyone's money. So the relative difference of money-ownership between players will stay exactly the same.

And even more: If you know about that in advance, you can invest all your money into items in the game. You can buy all the Cartel Items off the GTN. You can buy all the strongholds, all the extensions, you can buy guild flagships for several guilds and sell them afterwards if necessary. The proposal is one that inherently favors those that have money and gives them every opportunity to not only keep, but expand the relative difference between them and those that don't have money. You would still, effectively, be able to afford anything, dictate trade (because you have most of the item-supply and most of the money).

 

So, what would, exactly, be changed here? Two things:

1. Credit Sellers would be less important to those that don't have money. If you can farm a million within a few days, you don't need to buy it.

2- Ingame credit-sinks (like Strongholds, Companion Gifts, Repairs...) would have more of an effect on the economy. But then again: Not on the still-ultra-wealthy. You'd still be able to afford everything easily.

 

That makes those complaints from the ultra-wealthy actually very interesting. You're the one only losing some green numbers on black background, but none of the perks that come with it. Everyone else is losing most, if not all of the perks - but just very few of the numbers. And yet, you're the loudest voices here, threating to quit the game over nothing.

 

 

Wonderful, that is a really nice real world example and I am happy that you seem to think of this in a similar way. Would be happy, if a couple more people would be willing to sacrifice a bit of economic buying power to fix the economy and tried to view this from a different angle

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Darcmoon:

If Bioware deleted all of your toons and made you start from scratch again would you object?  

That's like implying that apples and oranges are the same thing because they are fruits. If the toons were simple characters that didn't have a story, their own personality or things that made them unique to me, then no. I would not object.

I would not play a game like this to begin with though.

[Darcmoon]

2 minutes ago, BlackySchwarz said:

That's like implying that apples and oranges are the same thing because they are fruits. If the toons were simple characters that didn't have a story, their own personality or things that made them unique to me, then no. I would not object.

I would not play a game like this to begin with though.

And yet I believe that many people would feel almost the same if they did what you are suggesting.  You call it apples and oranges but in both cases it is BW taking something someone has earned and removing it.  Player 2 in your example goes from 35000 credits to 3500 credits.  I'm willing to bet they would feel just as outraged, if not more, since they are left with next to nothing.

[Jdast]

Blacky,

Here is where your relative purchasing power argument falls apart. At the exact moment you devalue everyone's holdings by /10 (and then repeatedly), you have effectively and significantly leveled the playing field to allow newer players to catch up. You are ignoring the fact that I spent hundreds of hours to earn the credits I did so your division would have a far more disproportionate impact on me than on a newer player.

It would completely disincentivize me from earning credits in the future and trading knowing Bioware could and would make a decision at any time to devalue the time I spent to earn those credits.

It's the opposite of moral hazard in economics, where you don't want to bail out people because they will expect more bailouts in the future. In this case, why work my tail off earning credits knowing Bioware was going to /10 them in a couple months time?

By ignoring the time and effort factor put into earning credits that I as a long-term player have invested, you are devaluing me as a player who has been a long-term contributor. Consequently, I would not invest in the game and I would leave. So you're wrong when you said to Cynical Steve it is about the number of credits -- it is also about the time invested to earn those credits you are devaluing.

It's that simple.

Dasty

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Jdast

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Darcmoon:

And yet I believe that many people would feel almost the same if they did what you are suggesting.  You call it apples and oranges but in both cases it is BW taking something someone has earned and removing it.  Player 2 in your example goes from 35000 credits to 3500 credits.  I'm willing to bet they would feel just as outraged, if not more, since they are left with next to nothing.

First of all, Player 2 should realize rather quickly, that his 3500 credits now are worth more than his 35000 credits before. The reason being that the money has more value i.e. he has more buying power...

Second of all, farming 35000 credits again would not take long. 

So it would kind of look like this. Player 2: "Where are all my credits?? oh why is everything so much cheaper now? I can afford more stuff! Wow that is actually pretty cool. Shouldn't take too long to farm my money back anyway. 

Tbh if someone like player 2 would be really upset about that then idk, some people just don't want to be saved I guess lol

[Darcmoon]

Just now, BlackySchwarz said:

First of all, Player 2 should realize rather quickly, that his 3500 credits now are worth more than his 35000 credits before. The reason being that the money has more value i.e. he has more buying power...

Second of all, farming 35000 credits again would not take long. 

So it would kind of look like this. Player 2: "Where are all my credits?? oh why is everything so much cheaper now? I can afford more stuff! Wow that is actually pretty cool. Shouldn't take too long to farm my money back anyway. 

Tbh if someone like player 2 would be really upset about that then idk, some people just don't want to be saved I guess lol

So are you saying that taxi costs, repairs (which they just upped the cost of), strongholds and other vendor items would be reduced in cost also or do you just mean that items on the GTN would cost less?  

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Jdast:

Blacky,

Here is where your relative purchasing power argument falls apart. At the exact moment you devalue everyone's holdings by /10 (and then repeatedly), you have effectively and significantly leveled the playing field to allow newer players to catch up. You are ignoring the fact that I spent hundreds of hours to earn the credits I did so your division would have a far more disproportionate impact on me than on a newer player.

It would completely disincentivize me from earning credits in the future and trading knowing Bioware could and would make a decision at any time to devalue the time I spent to earn those credits.

It's the opposite of moral hazard in economics, where you don't want to bail out people because they will expect more bailouts in the future. In this case, why work my tail off earning credits knowing Bioware was going to /10 them in a couple months time?

By ignoring the time and effort factor put into earning credits that I as a long-term player have invested, you are devaluing me as a player who has been a long-term contributor. Consequently, I would not invest in the game and I would leave. So you're wrong when you said to Cynical Steve it is about the number of credits -- it is also about the time invested to earn those credits you are devaluing.

It's that simple.

Dasty

 

I really did not forget that. I simply thought it's not worth noting since it is such an obvious consequence... My model leaves people like you especially with less and treats you in a sense unfair. Solutions often create new Problems. So what if Bioware found an ingame way to compensate people like you with something really cool with somewhat equal value? Something that only you could have. Would that please you? Considering you would still be rich, the eceonomy would be fixed and you also had something really cool to acknowledge the wealth you "had" with. Wouldn't that be pretty good? 

[SteveTheCynic]

1 hour ago, BlackySchwarz said:

Interesting take. So this assumes that the majority of the player base is currently playing because of the amount of credits they have in their inventory? Then again this also assumes that the rich won't feel rich enough even after they still have 100millions of credits in their inventory... I mean I have  seen a lot of people "cry" about how bad and inflated the economy is and how hard it is to gain credits without selling stuff in the gtm (since the actual in game mechanics like doing missions, killing mobs, etc., as far as I understood it, don't reward you with many credits).

So your point is "don't do this because some players won't feel rich anymore, and people love the credits more than the actual game"?

No.  Geez.  My point is that nobody would trust the studio to let them keep anything (especially credits) any more.  Would you trust them after such a thing?  Especially after *three* such things?  And if the players don't trust the studio to let them keep stuff (see also Dasty's point about time and effort spent acquiring the credits), why do you think *anyone* would want to continue playing?

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Darcmoon:

So are you saying that taxi costs, repairs (which they just upped the cost of), strongholds and other vendor items would be reduced in cost also or do you just mean that items on the GTN would cost less?  

GTN would cost less by default. Expensive things like Strongholds and some other things would have to be adjusted by bioware individually. The rest could stay the same since mission payout and farming should give you enough credits in the first place to amass wealth.. at least that is my thought

[Darcmoon]

1 minute ago, BlackySchwarz said:

GTN would cost less by default. Expensive things like Strongholds and some other things would have to be adjusted by bioware individually. The rest could stay the same since mission payout and farming should give you enough credits in the first place to amass wealth.. at least that is my thought

What makes you think BW would adjust any of the costs?  The only cost changes in the SH they have done is offer the DK and Corusant ones at the anniversary times.  

7 minutes ago, BlackySchwarz said:

I really did not forget that. I simply thought it's not worth noting since it is such an obvious consequence... My model leaves people like you especially with less and treats you in a sense unfair. Solutions often create new Problems. So what if Bioware found an ingame way to compensate people like you with something really cool with somewhat equal value? Something that only you could have. Would that please you? Considering you would still be rich, the eceonomy would be fixed and you also had something really cool to acknowledge the wealth you "had" with. Wouldn't that be pretty good? 

I'll also ask this since you brought it up with me and here again.  What could they offer me to compensate for taking my credits?  Would that compensation be the same for everyone and how many would think it is worth it?  I doubt anyone would believe that it is something that only they would get.  BW has proven that they will take items that were advertised as being one off or exclusive and making them available to other players.  Why would I believe they won't do it again when enough people start wanting that item?

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb SteveTheCynic:

No.  Geez.  My point is that nobody would trust the studio to let them keep anything (especially credits) any more.  Would you trust them after such a thing?  Especially after *three* such things?  And if the players don't trust the studio to let them keep stuff (see also Dasty's point about time and effort spent acquiring the credits), why do you think *anyone* would want to continue playing?

To me it would be kind of common sense that the Studio would not just do that, if it isn't needed. When the economy is ultra inflated like now then it would be a good time to consider it. Gather feedback, start slow, see how people react and if it was enough then stop. If it wasn't and the people are not all against it then continue. 

"Especially after *three* such things?" It's just a model... maybe one update is enough.. maybe the community doesn't want the economy fixed.. these are all factors that I am lacking the data of to determine it's likelyhood. But since Bioware will have to gather feedback and data they won't take too much money away from everyone to the point where everyone quits (considering everyone would really quit to begin with)... which is why I said they will have to do it slow.

[DarthAlastor]

This same suggestion has been made multiple times before and I'm sure will be made multiple times again. You nuke peoples credits then you nuke the game. Unlike real life there is no way to determine which credits were obtained from credit sellers or exploits but people have spent lots of time and some including myself have even spent extra dollars buying cartel coins and items from the cartel market. I would definitely quit if I logged in one day after coming home from work and found that all of my credits were gone