I hate being nickle and dimed as a subscriber

[AJediKnight]

Title kind of says it all. Specifically, however, I hate stuff like this:

• Having to pay so that mounts and outfits I bought on the Cartel Market will unlock on multiple characters. That's a double-dip microtransaction, and it feels... kind of used car salesman-like.
• Having to may to make even minor cosmetic changes. I'm not race-changing - I'm redoing my freaking makeup.
• Having to pay over and over and OVER for the same dyes. Nothing says tedious and annoying like purchasing something you've already bought. There's no joy in that buy - it's just pain.

... and so on. Things like name-changes, race swaps, gender alterations, costume/weapon purchases, housing decor, etc? I'm totally fine with having these remain MTs. But my subscription should cover the minor bits - because what the heck else am I really paying for?

[JediQuaker]

Except that, unless you actually buy extra CC with real money, all those transactions (can) come from CC you get as part of your subscription. No nickels or dimes needed. 🙂

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

13 minutes ago, JediQuaker said:

Except that, unless you actually buy extra CC with real money, all those transactions (can) come from CC you get as part of your subscription. No nickels or dimes needed. 🙂

 

Last I checked, subscriptions were also paid for with real money, so, if it's part of the subscription, nickels and dimes were in fact needed.

[MortenJessen]

Last time you checked, you paid for THE subscription. Last time you checked, when did those x number of days come with 600 cartel coins a month?

Those coins are "just" a "thank you for paying us" from BW. They are not a human right. Get over that sentiment. BW dont have to give them to you as a thank you for being a subscriber, but they do. That does NOT make them part of what you pay for. BW could cancel that deal to night, and you wont lose anything.

[felleto]

I'm just going to throw it out there so people remember this:

EA is the developer who were called on trial for lootbox mechanincs being exploitative business practices. Their PR lady (whatever her name was) said that Fifa packs are not exploitative at all they are ethical and furthermore they are not lootboxes but fun surprise mechanics. This is the kind of scummy company we are dealing when it comes to SWTOR. This game and the devs deserved so much better...

[felleto]

2 minutes ago, MortenJessen said:

Last time you checked, you paid for THE subscription. Last time you checked, when did those x number of days come with 600 cartel coins a month?

Those coins are "just" a "thank you for paying us" from BW. They are not a human right. Get over that sentiment. BW dont have to give them to you as a thank you for being a subscriber, but they do. That does NOT make them part of what you pay for. BW could cancel that deal to night, and you wont lose anything.

This is exactly the kind of defense EA and Bioware loves their players to make on their behalf. Is BW or EA paying you folks? Because this is just crazy. "Hey I'm satisfied with the bread crumbs they throw at us every month. Please, Mr. EA can I have more please?" 

"How dare other players actually ask for more. Actually ask for a less buggy game?! I love you Bioware and every 20 minute adventure patch you throw at us every year. You are amazing!"

PS: Let me know how much they are paying you, I would like a piece of that pie.

[MortenJessen]

8 minutes ago, felleto said:

This is exactly the kind of defense EA and Bioware loves their players to make on their behalf. Is BW or EA paying you folks? Because this is just crazy. "Hey I'm satisfied with the bread crumbs they throw at us every month. Please, Mr. EA can I have more please?" 

"How dare other players actually ask for more. Actually ask for a less buggy game?! I love you Bioware and every 20 minute adventure patch you throw at us every year. You are amazing!"

PS: Let me know how much they are paying you, I would like a piece of that pie.

Lol the delusions. It is the fact. Sorry. I took a look at the store that is part of this page (swtor.com), and it only says that you pay for the X number of days you want to be a subscriber. There is NO mentioning of getting 600 coins each month, as part of the deal. 

It says they are free, as a GIFT.

Edited January 25, 2023 by MortenJessen
Spelling and correction

[casirabit]

2 hours ago, AJediKnight said:

Title kind of says it all. Specifically, however, I hate stuff like this:

• Having to pay so that mounts and outfits I bought on the Cartel Market will unlock on multiple characters. That's a double-dip microtransaction, and it feels... kind of used car salesman-like.
• Having to may to make even minor cosmetic changes. I'm not race-changing - I'm redoing my freaking makeup.
• Having to pay over and over and OVER for the same dyes. Nothing says tedious and annoying like purchasing something you've already bought. There's no joy in that buy - it's just pain.

... and so on. Things like name-changes, race swaps, gender alterations, costume/weapon purchases, housing decor, etc? I'm totally fine with having these remain MTs. But my subscription should cover the minor bits - because what the heck else am I really paying for?

How many other games do you play?   I play Lost Ark and all those additional items, we must purchase from their shop as well they do not have a collection list so you would have to purchase an outfit again (provided you have another sorceress or warrior, as they are restricted to classes).  As far as changing makeup, you must purchase a reskin token to do that as well.

[felleto]

Please enlighten us Lord Jessen. You seem to be so insightful oh lord. Please let us bask in your dellusion of the most amazing game there is: SWTOR. It's such a strange thing that it's not even mentioned as a big MMO anymore. I guess people must not have the same blessed eyes you have. There are no bugs, the content drops are so rich and so constant most players can barely keep up. Developers are constantly posting and interacting with their community."

Ok taking my sarcasm cap off now. Thank you for your post Jessen I don't think you read the topic of the post correctly. It's TIRED of being nickled and dimed, not HAPPY for being nickled and dimed. It's ok it's an honest mistake I forgive you. 

When you create your post of "I love Bioware please take away the Cartel coins from our subscription" I will stay the hell away from that thank you. 

[MortenJessen]

2 minutes ago, felleto said:

Please enlighten us Lord Jessen. You seem to be so insightful oh lord. Please let us bask in your dellusion of the most amazing game there is: SWTOR. It's such a strange thing that it's not even mentioned as a big MMO anymore. I guess people must not have the same blessed eyes you have. There are no bugs, the content drops are so rich and so constant most players can barely keep up. Developers are constantly posting and interacting with their community."

Ok taking my sarcasm cap off now. Thank you for your post Jessen I don't think you read the topic of the post correctly. It's TIRED of being nickled and dimed, not HAPPY for being nickled and dimed. It's ok it's an honest mistake I forgive you. 

When you create your post of "I love Bioware please take away the Cartel coins from our subscription" I will stay the hell away from that thank you. 

When you write things like this, try at least to make me look bad. Like write that I kick puppies and scares small children. 

1 hour ago, JediQuaker said:

Except that, unless you actually buy extra CC with real money, all those transactions (can) come from CC you get as part of your subscription. No nickels or dimes needed. 🙂

 

1 hour ago, The-Kaitou-Kid said:

 

Last I checked, subscriptions were also paid for with real money, so, if it's part of the subscription, nickels and dimes were in fact needed.

Point being, you can, unless you really really are into changing all those things OP describes, like 2-3 times a month (reasonable) on 2-3 chars (math) your free 600 coins each month really should leave more than enough room for even making a little saving. You dont have to pay for extra coins if you can moderate your self just a little. 

[felleto]

7 minutes ago, casirabit said:

How many other games do you play?   I play Lost Ark and all those additional items, we must purchase from their shop as well they do not have a collection list so you would have to purchase an outfit again (provided you have another sorceress or warrior, as they are restricted to classes).  As far as changing makeup, you must purchase a reskin token to do that as well.

Why does that matter? Do we honestly have to compare it to other games to settle this kind of business or can Bioware make decisions on their own to help their game and community grow? This is an unsatisfied customer that made an honest post about his opinion. I'm an unsatisfied customer too. And I BET that if they improved the things you get from your subscription the same people that are defending these predatory exploitative practices would be joyful to receive them. So instead of defending how the game is (because I don't know) or comparing it to games with extremely exploitative tactics just to show that SWTOR is so nice and dandy, try something different for a change. 

The game has EA market practices written all over it. Cash Shop, loot boxes, most of services being locked behind a pay wall. Freaking you can't make your helmet dissapear without opening your wallet. 

 

[felleto]

3 hours ago, AJediKnight said:

• Having to pay so that mounts and outfits I bought on the Cartel Market will unlock on multiple characters. That's a double-dip microtransaction, and it feels... kind of used car salesman-like.

This. I WANT TO FORCE CHOKE THE DARK SOUL WHO BROUGH THIS TO EXISTENCE! It truly must have been a nightmare born from the bowels of EA's headquarters after a dark ritual where a virgin was sacrificed. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by felleto

[MortenJessen]

3 minutes ago, felleto said:

This. I WANT TO FORCE CHOKE THE DARK SOUL WHO BROUGH THIS TO EXISTENCE! It truly must have been a nightmare born from the bowels of EA's headquarters after a dark ritual where a virgin was sacrificed. 

My my, you really are on fire. Reality check; would you rather pay full price on each char you want the shiny on, or just the unlock in collection fee?

[casirabit]

9 minutes ago, felleto said:

The game has EA market practices written all over it. Cash Shop, loot boxes, most of services being locked behind a pay wall. Freaking you can't make your helmet dissapear without opening your wallet. 

 

I have never had to pay to hide my helmet.

[felleto]

Just now, MortenJessen said:

My my, you really are on fire. Reality check; would you rather pay full price on each char you want the shiny on, or just the unlock in collection fee?

I'm letting my rage flow through me.

What about just paying once? Is it such an outlandish concept nowadays? 

[MortenJessen]

 

1 minute ago, felleto said:

I'm letting my rage flow through me.

What about just paying once? Is it such an outlandish concept nowadays? 

Let me know what grocery store you use. Pay once, and you can take all you want for 3 months? The fact that it is shiny pixels in a game, does not make it free I am afraid. I have the nasty habit of smoking. So following your logic, once I pay for my fags, I get the lighter for free, and if I take on a new jacket, I pay only 10% of its value, for each extra pack of fags I smoke each month?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

3 hours ago, AJediKnight said:

• Having to pay so that mounts and outfits I bought on the Cartel Market will unlock on multiple characters. That's a double-dip microtransaction, and it feels... kind of used car salesman-like.
• Having to may to make even minor cosmetic changes. I'm not race-changing - I'm redoing my freaking makeup.
• Having to pay over and over and OVER for the same dyes. Nothing says tedious and annoying like purchasing something you've already bought. There's no joy in that buy - it's just pain.

* Hey, I bought a car from your dealership last year and my wife needs a car, can I have another one of the same car I got here last year for free please?

* Hey Mr. Barber, I'd like a new hair style, can you please give me a new hair cut for free please?

* Hey, I bought hair dye here 3 months ago, but my roots are starting to grow out and I need to dye my hair again, can I can have the same dye I got here 3 months ago for free please?

Some minor changes, like complexion, yeah, I can see that being free. But hair style, hair color, eye color, we can't change those things in real life for free, so I don't really see paying for that as outlandish or nickel and dimeing people. 

This a business and business exists for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Would I like alot of stuff for free? Yeah, of course I would, but I don't have that expectation.

Not only that, you're not acknowledging all the stuff that they do give away for free, and there's a ton of it.

All 8 class stories, totally free and theres a ton of it. All the exploration, dailies, Planet Story arcs, heroics, regular quests, space missions and PVP, all for free. Multiple characters you can level to 75, and you can redo all this content as many times as you want, making different choices, differences in the storylines, it's an insane amount of content for free.

You do get Cartel coins with your subscription every month, so you can use that to make change like you sited without having to spend any more money than you already do for a subscription.

I've been playing this game for 9 years as a subscriber, I very rarely feel the need pay for cartel coins for extras and it in no way has lessened my enjoyment of the game, wherein I enjoy it.

But, different people have different wants, and depending on those wants, you may or may not have to dip into your pocket extra, but there's nothing you 'need' to play this game that requires you to ever pay more than your monthly subscription.

You want the bling, ya gotta pony up for it, just like in real life.

Edited January 25, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[felleto]

1 minute ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

* Hey, I bought a car from your dealership last year and my wife needs a car, can I have another one of the same car I got here last year for free please?

* Hey Mr. Barber, I'd like a new hair style, can you please give me a new hair cut for free please?

* Hey, I bought hair dye here 3 months ago, but my roots are starting to grow out and I need to dye my hair again, can I can have the same dye I got here 3 months ago for free please?

Some minor changes, like complexion, yeah, I can see that being free. But hair style, hair color, eye color, we can't change those things in real life for free, so I don't really see paying for that as outlandish or nickel and dimeing people. 

This a business and business exists for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Would I like alot of stuff for free? Yeah, of course I would, but I don't have that expectation.

Not only that, you're not acknowledging all the stuff that they do give away for free, and there's a ton of it.

All 8 class stories, totally free and theres a ton of it. All the exploration, dailies, Planet Story arcs, heroics, regular quests, space missions and PVP, all for free. Multiple characters you can level to 75, and you can redo all this content as many times as you want, making different choices, differences in the storylines, it's an insane amount of content for free.

You can play space barbie for free as well, you might not have access to every armor set or the like, but there's endless amounts of apparel you can get for free [no real life money, just in game credits.]

You do get Cartel coins with your subscription every month, so you can use that to make change like you sited without having to spend any more money than you already do for a subscription.

They have to give some incentive for people to subscribe, that means they can't give everything away for free. They have upkeep costs, and I don't imagine they are small, they need income for that.

I've been playing this game for 9 years as a subscriber, I very rarely feel the need pay for cartel coins for extras and it in no way has lessened my enjoyment of the game, wherein I enjoy it.

But, different people have different wants, and depending on those wants, you may or may not have to dip into your pocket extra, but there's nothing you 'need' to play this game that requires you to ever pay more than your monthly subscription.

You want the bling, ya gotta pony up for it, just like in real life.

That's the whole point this is not real life. It's a game it's not supposed to emulate or have real life elements attached to it. If you are rich in real life shouldn't mean you are rich in game. Who wants to play a game like that? 

I think it's a lost cause. Players are happy with the crap they have, they will continue having crap. Thank you for my dose of hopelessness for the day. 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

10 minutes ago, felleto said:

That's the whole point this is not real life. It's a game it's not supposed to emulate or have real life elements attached to it. If you are rich in real life shouldn't mean you are rich in game. Who wants to play a game like that? 

I think it's a lost cause. Players are happy with the crap they have, they will continue having crap. Thank you for my dose of hopelessness for the day. 

I think anyone who considers charging people to change make up, hair style, to dye things different colors as predatory exploitative practices is a lost cause.

As I generally have a policy of not paying for crap, safe to say I don't see it as crap.

If you're so unhappy with it, unsubscribe, not to do so is a bit hypocritical on your part.

And a 'does of hopelessness' over this topic? I can't imagine how bored you are.

The OP is totally entitled to their opinion and has every right to voice it.  I simply don't share it.

Edited January 25, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[felleto]

6 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I think anyone who considers charging people to change make up, hair style, to dye things different colors as predatory exploitative practices is a lost cause.

As I generally have a policy of not paying for crap, safe to say I don't see it as crap.

If you're so unhappy with it, unsubscribe, not to do so is a bit hypocritical on your part.

And a 'does of hopelessness' over this topic? I can't imagine how bored you are.

You are absolutely correct my friend. I should unsubscribe. The game doesn't offer me the type of content I would expect for my money. Unfortunately, I cling to something called hope or copium I think. Which is a good medicine for hopelessness if you ask me. 

When it comes to SWTOR, I'm very passionate about it. If you ask my resoing behind not unsubscribing I don't have an answer to give you. It's something unexplainable. All the indicators show that the game is just a cash grab at this point, no new raids for 1 year I think, rated Pvp being dropped, but hey new itens in the Cartel market yo! (Oh wait these have bugs too). Guess I have a toxic co-dependency of this game and maybe I should stop. Sometimes I get that feeling I got from playing the game for the first time and just being amazed at it. I guess that's why I feel so bad about the direction Bioware and EA have taken it. 

You may not see it as crap, I see it as crap and I would like the crap not to be crappy anymore. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by felleto

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

17 minutes ago, felleto said:

You are absolutely correct my friend. I should unsubscribe. The game doesn't offer me the type of content I would expect for my money. Unfortunately, I cling to something called hope or copium I think. Which is a good medicine for hopelessness if you ask me. 

When it comes to SWTOR, I'm very passionate about it. If you ask my resoing behind not unsubscribing I don't have an answer to give you. It's something unexplainable.

You may not see it as crap, I see it as crap and I would like the crap not to be crappy anymore. 

I get it. I really do. You're probably like me and have either a great love of Star Wars, or you're captivated by some of the story themes, and you don't want that fantasy gone from your life. I totally get that.

I'm not saying I'm happy with everything in the game. I'm not. I think the amount of new story content we get is terribly small. I think they can so easily add very easy things to the game that would make a lot of people very happy. Like mails from their love interest companions. We get mails from nobody NPCs all the time, and people are desperate for just a few crumbs from their LIs and Bioware gives them nothing. I'm definitely upset with that.

They give reskins of the same crap over and over again, new mounts and new companions that do nothing, give nothing, have no story, just useless throw-away stuff, instead of using some of the resources to give players things they are begging for and have been voicing on the forums for years.

And quite honestly, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks or feels, it matters how you feel, and  you are entitled to feel the way you do.

While I do like story, I am more of end gamer. So doing Operations, PVP, FPS, and that sort of thing comprise most of what I do, and that's repeatable content which probably makes it easier for me to feel more content than perhaps players who are less inclined to those sorts of activities in the game.

I could be wrong, but you sound more like a 'story' player, your into character development, interactions with companions and have your own head canon of things and you maybe feel the lack on that sort of content as harmful to your game experience.

If there is one central thing about Star Wars that George Lucas always spoke about and was his main intent with it, it was the concept of hope.

So I'd say you're right in line with the creators thinking. I for one hope you don't let go of that hope.

Edited January 26, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[OlBuzzard]

[/Facepalm] ...[/Rolleyes]

Like it or not items such as changes in hair / color / facial expressions and (literally dozens of other similar related items) are all a part of things which cost (in some way, shape, fashion or form).  

This is a simple form of payment for exchange of goods or services rendered!  Most of these items are not directly related to requirements for playing SWTOR (or other games).  Server transfers, name changes and other major items are also simply charges for services rendered.  While it is true that the game is NOT REAL life ... it does REQUIRE REAL LIFE people to make things happen in order for us to enjoy the game.  And these days that aint cheap!  Heck .. I wish I could buy a bass boat today for what they cost last year ... but they've ALL gone UP (brother have they ever)!

As a subscriber ... there are a lot of things that I'm concerned about from time to time  (and I post those concerns here) ... BUT the overall cost of things is a bargain.  Frankly I'm shocked that the entire industry (MMO's in general) haven't gone up in price!  I can say based on many years of experience and as a retired purchasing director!

[TrixxieTriss]

Anyone here remember the good old days of gaming where you purchased the game & got everything included & had no monthly subscriptions or cash shops?

Every now & then you might have to pay for an expansion that was basically a whole other version of the original& worth the money.

And occasionally a free DLC was released by the Producers or you’d get access to free fan made community content. 

I remember the good old days. You’d drop $40-$60 on a game & get books & manuals & toys included. The games were highly replayable & it was a one off cost.
 

 

[OlBuzzard]

11 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Anyone here remember the good old days of gaming where you purchased the game & got everything included & had no monthly subscriptions or cash shops?

Every now & then you might have to pay for an expansion that was basically a whole other version of the original& worth the money.

And occasionally a free DLC was released by the Producers or you’d get access to free fan made community content. 

I remember the good old days. You’d drop $40-$60 on a game & get books & manuals & toys included. The games were highly replayable & it was a one off cost.
 

 

Aint it the ever-loving' truth!

A new Champion bass boat use to cost less than 50K:  210 DC with 225 Merc .. trolling motor batteries ..  NICE trailer!  Now Champion is bankrupt...  BUT Bass Cat purchased the rights to build a 203 (Mt Home hull NOT Tenn.)  That new 20' 4" hull is over 90 LARGE !!!

😲

Unfortunately things are getting more and more expensive!!!

Edited January 26, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[felleto]

Buzzard there are many videos os developers bashing EA my friend. You can't honestly think that the money this games bring them is being used for its development. The game costed 250 million dollars to make and it engrossed I think 1.5 billion dollars through its lifespam. I'm not an expert in the matter, nor a game developer. I just think this game makes them money so why don't give something back to its players? Is it asking for too much?

I'm just a guy who posts things on the forum. But I'm not naive to think EA has our best interests at heart. We have bugs dating YEARS, that have never been fixed. Private servers fix bugs faster than Bioware. I understand this is not the devs fault, they are probably working their ass off to get the new content drop and the new cartel market items for their ever-hungry overlords. 

Additionally, I have seen a lot of content creators bashing EA and showing proof of their scummy practices in every single one of their games (Nixxiom, Stephanie Sterling, Swtor Central, Swtor angels). Madden, Fifa for god sakes what is that game. EA is that kind of distributor that is just looking for getting that cash out of their players, no respect for developers, no respect for the creative process. Money grabbing leaches that destroy everything in their path the moment it's not making them enough money. They are masters at manipulating people to spend more and more and think they are doing us a favor holding our games and developers as hostage every step of the way. 

I feel for Swtor, it's my favorite game. I and many players here want to see it being the most bad ass MMO out there. I truly believed this game was the chosen one, the one that would bring balance to the force. However, the phantom menace was right there in front of us we were just too gullible to see. Now our precious game has been turned to a cash shop monstrosity that crawls its way slowly content patch from content patch while it vomits bugged cartel market items and poops 600 cartel coins at its subscribers. (I liked this description :D)

Edited January 26, 2023 by felleto