Average Player Skill level

[Xerekfell]

Hey I have a burning question to the devs. How are you going to address the lack of skill level of 90% of the player base. There is absolutely no reason majority of the pvp player base should be Korriban mobs in pvp. There are many ways of addressing this issue such as removing level cap in story instances, nerfing companion healing to where you can't just afk hit mobs, rework class stories to make it challenging again, make basic guides to the class in the tutorial menu. For example, on Vengeance you could do something like this: "In order to effectively damage down enemies you must learn the basics, Shatter is your longest damage over time ability and ideally should be used first to bring unbearable pain to the selected enemy." Why isn't there stuff like this in the game? I also wonder if I'll get content modded again for giving realistic criticism about your game. 

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, Xerekfell said:

 make basic guides to the class in the tutorial menu. 

Why isn't there stuff like this in the game?

Because that's what the MMO community is for.

BioWare has already "pruned" & "nerfed" the game plenty AND already still has enough on their plate with: fixing bugs, 64-bit/cloud conversion, moderating these forums, barely moderating in-game genchats, CSR support tickets, minimal story content, etc. etc. etc.

They can't also be expected to teach players how to play.  ( especially when most of those types of players won't ever have the RL skill, time, nor self-motivation to "git gud" anyway )

Edited January 17, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: merit still matters in competition

[Samcuu]

Making pve challenging isn't going to help players in pvp imo. I think Bioware has taken steps to address this tho in 7.2. It's a hardline stance but..... More ppl are venturing into the queue these days because of the rewards. And you see on the forums how much crying there is over premades and how hard it is to win games/get medals, and advance in the seasons. So when players are faced with this problem they've got a few avenues to go down.

1. L2p is the tldr. How do you learn to play better? One of the best ways is to find experienced pvp'ers and have them guide you. I encourage anyone that is struggling in pvp to take advantage of the resources to get better that bioware is offering you. 8 man premades are a thing, find a pvp guild, listen to their tips on how to play your class, how to gear, what talents to take. I also advise players who want to improve to get a 12 button mouse, keybind abilities, don't click or keyboard turn. Pvp is a competitive game mode, you have to dedicate time and effort to becoming better. This path is only for ppl who actually enjoy pvp tho so it's a decision everyone has to make. 

2. Your 2nd option is just not to pvp if it's that frustrating and you don't want to make the effort to improve.

3. Just cry to bioware on the forums that it's too hard and needs to be made easy so u can basically afk ur way through the seasons for ur rewards. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Samcuu

[Csjbo]

While understanding rotations and setting up burst windows are important for PVP, I'm not sure it's that difficult for a casual player because the abilities literally glow when crits are proc'd. However, it's being able to utilize DCDs effectively that separates PVP from PVE, and unfortunately 90% of all PVE content in the game can be completed without ever using a DCD. As a result, most of the players who play PVE are going to be wholly prepared to defend themselves in a mode that requires them to cycle through DCDs. Making PVE more difficult so that players have to understand how defensives for their class work would go a long way into giving them the confidence to play PVP with confidence. 

[Faltun]

2 hours ago, Samcuu said:

1. L2p is the tldr. How do you learn to play better? One of the best ways is to find experienced pvp'ers and have them guide you. I encourage anyone that is struggling in pvp to take advantage of the resources to get better that bioware is offering you. 8 man premades are a thing, find a pvp guild, listen to their tips on how to play your class, how to gear, what talents to take. I also advise players who want to improve to get a 12 button mouse, keybind abilities, don't click or keyboard turn. Pvp is a competitive game mode, you have to dedicate time and effort to becoming better. This path is only for ppl who actually enjoy pvp tho so it's a decision everyone has to make. 

12 button mouse lol.... for the few abilities left, absolutely not needed, maybe it was useful back in 2.0 era for few class but since 3.0 its totally useless, especially since 7.0. they made this game dumb, and removed so much from its complexity... mostly abilities but not just those. Also the bad players are not gonna do keybinding and ui setup, keybinding is needed for that mouse, but if they can keybind, then they can do a proper one for these ability numbers only with keyboard + basic mouse. Getting used to it is just time.
There is not much to learn, also the skill gap is super small in 7.0 era after medium+ skill level with this simplified combat system. the game is easy, i have 2 friends who were totally new to the game and in few weeks they became good pvpers. 

simply there are players around there who wont be good in games, especially in pvp, because they dont THINK about the game, dont have plans and dont put any effort to get better. You know, the "i only play the game to turn off the world and dont want to think" The bad players are bad because they re passive, playing swtor is like watching tv for them, simply they dont want to think or dont know how to do that. Dosent matter how they nerf down the game and make it unplayable for players looking for complex gameplay(SWTOR used to be one in the very very very very very very very far past), the bad players wont improve.

With those pruned abilities, simplified gameplay, simplified stats and gearing all the s**t they released with 3.0 4.0 5.0 7.0 only reducing skill gap between players above average skill level, it dosent affect the "bad players" we re talking about here. 

EDIT:

They kinda force loyal\hardcore players leave with almost every expansion(except 6.0) for a long time, because of these players, because they desperately remove things from the game and simplify it as much as they can to make it easier for bad players and new players. This wont help, because those player wont stick around and wont be better, because of this. The problem is in those players not in the game.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Faltun

[Fuzzy_OwO]

2 hours ago, Csjbo said:

While understanding rotations and setting up burst windows are important for PVP, I'm not sure it's that difficult for a casual player because the abilities literally glow when crits are proc'd. However, it's being able to utilize DCDs effectively that separates PVP from PVE, and unfortunately 90% of all PVE content in the game can be completed without ever using a DCD. As a result, most of the players who play PVE are going to be wholly prepared to defend themselves in a mode that requires them to cycle through DCDs. Making PVE more difficult so that players have to understand how defensives for their class work would go a long way into giving them the confidence to play PVP with confidence. 

I'm playing more and more matches where I no longer need to use DCDs in PvP either because the people I'm fighting are a non-threat. It isn't fun. I think BioWare needs to put more effort into game tutorials, or at the very least try to redirect players to existing tutorials.

[Xerekfell]

7 hours ago, Csjbo said:

While understanding rotations and setting up burst windows are important for PVP, I'm not sure it's that difficult for a casual player because the abilities literally glow when crits are proc'd. However, it's being able to utilize DCDs effectively that separates PVP from PVE, and unfortunately 90% of all PVE content in the game can be completed without ever using a DCD. As a result, most of the players who play PVE are going to be wholly prepared to defend themselves in a mode that requires them to cycle through DCDs. Making PVE more difficult so that players have to understand how defensives for their class work would go a long way into giving them the confidence to play PVP with confidence. 

Yes exactly, you can sit back in most pve content and do nothing and let ur comp full heal you while you spam one button over 10 minutes.

[Samcuu]

7 hours ago, Faltun said:

12 button mouse lol.... for the few abilities left, absolutely not needed, maybe it was useful back in 2.0 era for few class but since 3.0 its totally useless, especially since 7.0. they made this game dumb, and removed so much from its complexity

We don't necessarily disagree, but cmon a 12 button mouse is still useful. Clickers exist and they could improve their play by 200% if they keybind. And keybinding to a 12 button mouse is superior than using keyboard keys especially to help with ur movement/strafing ect. Stun breaker, interrupt, cleanse, 2 or 3 dcds depending on ur class, knock back, stun, health pot, kiting abilities, gap closers, that's like 10 keybinds right there and I haven't even gotten into a rotation yet. 

Other than that we are pretty much in agreement. I'm simply trying to give advice to anyone who actually wants to learn and get better at pvp so they have more enjoyment in the game mode. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Samcuu

[Faltun]

48 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

We don't necessarily disagree, but cmon a 12 button mouse is still useful. Clickers exist and they could improve their play by 200% if they keybind. And keybinding to a 12 button mouse is superior than using keyboard keys especially to help with ur movement/strafing ect. Stun breaker, interrupt, cleanse, 2 or 3 dcds depending on ur class, knock back, stun, health pot, kiting abilities, gap closers, that's like 10 keybinds right there and I haven't even gotten into a rotation yet. 

Other than that we are pretty much in agreement. I'm simply trying to give advice to anyone who actually wants to learn and get better at pvp so they have more enjoyment in the game mode. 

IDK i had one, it broke, since then im rolling with a basic mouse and my skill level didnt reduced, i didnt rly used many of its buttons even in 6.0 after 7.0 it was totally useless for me. You only need to be fast with abilities that dosent respect global cooldown. Thats  really few abilities, for others it can be like ctrl+key or shift+key. you have 1,4 sec to push what you wnat which is pretty long. Also with 12 button mouse it was harder for me to move preciesly and sometimes pushed buttons accidentaly on fast rotations and stuff. Sure everyone is different tho, im working in IT, im pretty comfortable with keycombos on keyboard especially if i have 1.4 second to react.

I still dont really think thats gonna help somone under a specific skill level, because the problem is whats going or not going in their head and not the execution of what their head wants

[Tasaas]

1. Razr Naga - I have had mine for years.  Quality build and very beneficial to my gameplay.  I highly recomend them and you can find htem for cheaper on EBay if you like.

2. Accuracy -  I am a SWTOR from launch player.  I have always ignored accuracy for stacking crit or mastery or power, as I am strictly PVP.   I mostly play OP Lethality.  Just recently I have added 2.3% to my base accuracy, and I can definitely notice the difference.  I have picked up some dmg through my dots and my burst has gone up 5-10,000 points. I feel like I am in the butter zone of my setup. 

7.3 alacrity, 102.3% accuracy, 39%/69% crit.

I am glad that I added the accuracy to my build.   I recomend you give it a try.

 

*I also play a sorc madness, and that did not benefit from accuracy at all.

[Beyrahl]

There's countless guides out there, most just don't want to go through the effort to sit through it. It's typically boring to the average person. For those who do research usually find what they want and accelerate in skill level pretty quickly.
MMORPG PvP has always been knowledge > skill and depending on the game gear gets thrown in any order. 
This game does care about gear to a point, for example an augless player is simply going to struggle.

I have personally been going through trying to update/redo guides for 7.2, for those interest, my signature will bring you there. 
As for anything else typically if you do something as silly as ask a question in /pvp chat or make a thread, chances are someone may actually help you. 
Whether their advice is good or not... Another story, there's no authority on it and each has their own playstyle. But there is a meta and a reason why that meta exists. 

I am not too sure there's many Bioinfluencers left the ones still around I think occasionally stream, I know xam still does for example.