How to fix inflation

[Evelyn_Phoenix]

Assumptions:

• Inflation is bad and should be fixed (pushes people away from the game, hurts f2p people, makes trading annoying b/c you can't use the GTN, etc)
• Any fix will anger some rich people who will cry about their items being devalued.
• Fixing inflation REQUIRES the devaluation of in-game items so they can be reasonably priced again
• Inflation is due to both a low supply of items and a high demand for them. The high supply of credits themselves increases demand for items, particularly cartel market items which are rare

Supply-side fixes:

• Increase the amount of cartel coins that players get, which will increase the supply of items. Bioware took away the referral system which reduced total CC and thus total supply. I support their decision (b/c said system was unfair) but there was no compensation. Next, Bioware reduced galactic season rewards, further worsening the problem of a low supply of CC. I propose an increase to galactic season rewards, by 2x-3x. They could also increase CC achievement rewards (and could do so retroactively).
• Reduce the cartel coin price of items (I doubt they'll do this one, but I think they should. Spending 30-50 dollars on a fake lightsaber for 1 character is offensively overpriced)

Demand-and-Supply-side fixes:

• Let people turn credits into CC, but not the other way around. If people could exchange 1 billion credits for 1000cc, they would. This would increase the supply of items and be a credit sink

Demand-side fixes:

• Bring back amplifiers
• Create a credit-sink vendor with cosmetics that you can only get by spending X billion credits.

Counter-arguments

• Doing any of these will devalue items and make some people sad.
  • I agree. But that's worth it if it can make the economy better for the average person. F2p players can't even afford to buy a friggin purple medpack b/c they are too expensive
• But it'll hurt bioware b/c sales will go down! 
  • I'd like to see evidence before I believe this. I think keeping players engaged and retaining new players is better for the game in the long-run, and runaway inflation is bad for those metrics. Everyday I see people in chat say "just came back to this game. wtf is this economy." That's not good

[Bostorius]

Steal an Idea from another MMO, say Guild Wars 2 Market.

[illgot]

Inflation and high prices are not the same issue. You can not fix inflation by increasing the supply of an item people buy. Increasing the supply of items bought only lowers the price but does nothing to fix inflation or the cause of inflation.

Edited December 5, 2022 by illgot

[bluehufsa]

There is one simple solution : all CM items should be Bound On Pickup. You want nice items, you purchase them with CC, end of story. 

[illgot]

19 hours ago, bluehufsa said:

There is one simple solution : all CM items should be Bound On Pickup. You want nice items, you purchase them with CC, end of story. 

and that would shut down a massive portion of CM sales. I know a lot of players who buy hypercrates to unlock items and sell the items they don't want for credits. If every item was character bound then hypercrates would quickly become pointless as players start getting duplicates or items they don't need or want.

I also know a lot of players who buy specific items like dyes/renames/new sets on the CM to sell for credits.

Lets say Bioware binds all Cartel Market items when bought, inflation will still increase, only it will be an issue for player made and gathered items instead of currently effecting player made and gathered items along with CM items.

Your suggestion does not fix inflation and will cause Bioware to lose revenue along with making many players angry they can't get CM items trading in game.

Edited December 6, 2022 by illgot

[Toraak]

5 hours ago, bluehufsa said:

There is one simple solution : all CM items should be Bound On Pickup. You want nice items, you purchase them with CC, end of story. 

That won't affect inflation at all. It may help BW get more $ if people are forced to use CC's (or lose them money if to many people unsub), but credits will still be flowing into the game, and prices for stuff will continue to go up.

 

Some forms of consistent credit sinks need to be implemented. Whether it is a GTN (and trade) tax), or putting amplifiers back into the game or some other credit sink that people will use.

[septru]

To everyone that responds: Don't embarrass yourself by saying inflation is a "supply side" issue. You will be wrong. 

 

Educate yourself. Know what you are talking about. Read this post first: 

9 hours ago, illgot said:

Inflation and high prices are not the same issue. You can not fix inflation by increasing the supply of an item people buy. Increasing the supply of items bought only lowers the price but does nothing to fix inflation or the cause of inflation.

 

[septru]

@Evelyn_Phoenix Inflation is not caused by "supply-side" issues.  

 

One way you should have realized this is that none of your supply-side CM solutions, would actually fix the problem that you literally talk about. 

15 hours ago, Evelyn_Phoenix said:

F2p players can't even afford to buy a friggin purple medpack b/c they are too expensive

 

[DWho]

22 minutes ago, septru said:

To everyone that responds: Don't embarrass yourself by saying inflation is a "supply side" issue. You will be wrong. 

 

Educate yourself. Know what you are talking about. Read this post first: 

 

That's not entirely true. Supply does feed into inflation, but isn't the only cause. The impact supply has is that with a very low supply, a few players can buy up everything and "corner the market", which drives up prices. When the prices go up, nefarious means of acquiring credits become more popular and that is what really drives "inflation". No normal player can generate anywhere near the number of credits it takes to actually cause inflation. All of the really rich players have aggregated credits from players who aren't even playing anymore. Bioware has reduced the number of credits entering the game by a huge amount over the last several years and still, prices climb. Several solutions could curb both the demand for "nefariously obtained" credits and lower prices charged by sellers.

1) All items acquired second hand (whether from the GTN, Player trades, or out of Guild banks) become bound to legacy. You can still purchase items with CCs (obtained through playing the game or direct purchases from Bioware) and sell them for credits once and can still trade them between characters in your legacy. Flipping of items is what drives up prices.

2) A non-refundable listing fee for the GTN. If your item doesn't sell for the price you asked, it still costs you credits. That reduces the the tendency to list items for much more than they will sell for normally in the hope one person will shell out boatloads of credits at some point in the future. This is a direct drain of credits from the game

3) Make some of the more popular "restricted" items available through sale from vendors for millions of credits. Another direct drain of credits from the game.

4) Since everyone gears, make the "materials" needed to upgrade gear available for credits. Keep the initial item needed for the upgrade obtainable from the play-style it currently resides under. Another direct drain of credits.

4) Severe punishments for players that buy or sell from credit sellers.

The key to credit sinks is that they need to be used by most if not all players and must not be onerous enough that large numbers of people try to find their way around them (or make the game unplayable for new players). Trying to drain massive numbers of credits from "whales" with one-off items will have almost no impact on the number of "legacy" credits in the game.

[septru]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

Supply does feed into inflation, but isn't the only cause. The impact supply has is that with a very low supply, a few players can buy up everything and "corner the market", which drives up prices.

Supply is not a cause at all. Take some high supply items: stims, adrenals, RPMs, OEMs, legendary embers, hypercrates, datacrons... etc. These items cannot cornered on the GTN. Trust me, I've tried. Not only does it cost a massive amount of credits, but more items would just appear on the GTN.

 

The reason why the cost of high supply items increases has nothing to do with supply, and everything to do with the amount of credits in the game. 

 

1 hour ago, DWho said:

No normal player can generate anywhere near the number of credits it takes to actually cause inflation.

2 words: Credit sellers.

 

1 hour ago, DWho said:

4) Severe punishments for players that buy or sell from credit sellers.

Lol BioWare moderating. Idk bro. We tried to explain in the previous post about account sellers, but BioWare doesn't moderates ToS violations. BioWare stopped banning credit sellers years ago. They sure as hell won't ban credit buyers. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by septru

[DWho]

13 minutes ago, septru said:

Supply is not a cause at all. Take some high supply items: stims, adrenals, RPMs, OEMs, legendary embers, hypercrates, datacrons... etc. These items cannot cornered on the GTN. Trust me, I've tried. Not only does it cost a massive amount of credits, but more items would just appear on the GTN.

 

The reason why the cost of high supply items increases has nothing to do with supply, and everything to do with the amount of credits in the game. 

 

2 words: Credit sellers.

 

I don't say this to be rude or offensive... but you are really naïve. Just like your previous post about account sellers, you assume BioWare moderates ToS violations. They don't. BioWare stopped banning credit sellers years ago. 

We clearly don't agree on the source of inflation, but you are wrong to say it has nothing to do with supply. The items you listed are in much greater supply than almost all Cartel Market items, and as a result, their prices are significantly lower (and rose much less quickly). Those items also are relatively easy to acquire in game, while Cartel Market items are not. That you cannot corner the market is exactly why the prices of those items are lower than they would be if they could not be acquired in game. I don't recall seeing stims and adrenals for a billion credits unlike even some of the more common Cartel Market items. That alone disproves your theory that supply has nothing to do with rising prices (and inflation).

Bioware does need to enforce their TOS, that I agree with you on, but the only way they will do that is if there is enough outcry from the playerbase to do so. Outcry from the player base has caused Bioware to make changes in the past. Continually posting that nothing players can do matters is part of the problem.

 

[illgot]

48 minutes ago, DWho said:

We clearly don't agree on the source of inflation, but you are wrong to say it has nothing to do with supply. The items you listed are in much greater supply than almost all Cartel Market items, and as a result, their prices are significantly lower (and rose much less quickly). Those items also are relatively easy to acquire in game, while Cartel Market items are not. That you cannot corner the market is exactly why the prices of those items are lower than they would be if they could not be acquired in game. I don't recall seeing stims and adrenals for a billion credits unlike even some of the more common Cartel Market items. That alone disproves your theory that supply has nothing to do with rising prices (and inflation).

Bioware does need to enforce their TOS, that I agree with you on, but the only way they will do that is if there is enough outcry from the playerbase to do so. Outcry from the player base has caused Bioware to make changes in the past. Continually posting that nothing players can do matters is part of the problem.

 

inflation doesn't increase when legitimate players buy or sell to each other. No credits are generated, credits only change hands so at worst, inflation remains the same. Inflation only increases when new credits are introduced into the economy. This can happen when players are rewarded with credits via missions/conquest/etc, sell items to a vender for credits, or buy credits from a third party website.

Buying credits from a third party website is the only time players giving credits to another player increases inflation. This is because the credits being held by a third party website are not active in our economy. The credits held by a third party website are isolated from our economy until they are bought by a player at which point those credits become active in our economy which increases inflation.

Lets say the economy could only have 100 billion credits. Once those 100 billion credits have entered the economy no more credits can be introduced; players no longer receive credits as a reward and the venders no longer give players credits when they sell items to them.

If a player corners the market on a specific item and raises the price, inflation has not increased in this 100 billion max credit economy. If a player pays this higher price, this has no effect on the inflation of the economy which is now flat. Prices can fluctuate, inflation can drop if part of that 100 billion credits becomes inactive in the economy then rise again if those inactive credits become active again, but inflation in the game can not exceed the 100 billion credit limit of the economy.

In SWTOR there is no limit on the amount of credits that can exist in our economy so inflation is ever increasing. The price of an item is the result of many factors but it is not the cause of inflation.

The price of items is the result, not the cause.

Exploiting venders during credit dupes, generating credits out of no where, buying credits from third party websites is the cause of inflation.

Higher prices is the result of inflation due to the credit losing value or the result of an item being rare and the value going up because more people desire the item than what is available.

Edited December 5, 2022 by illgot

[DWho]

9 minutes ago, illgot said:

inflation doesn't increase when legitimate players buy or sell to each other. No credits are generated, credits only change hands so at worst, inflation remains the same. Inflation only increases when new credits are introduced into the economy. This can happen when players are rewarded with credits via missions/conquest/etc, sell items to a vender for credits, or buy credits from a third party website.

Buying credits from a third party website is the only time players giving credits to another player increases inflation. This is because the credits being held by a third party website are not active in our economy. The credits held by a third party website are isolated from our economy until they are bought by a player at which point those credits become active in our economy which increases inflation.

Lets say the economy could only have 100 billion credits. Once those 100 billion credits have entered the economy no more credits can be introduced; players no longer receive credits as a reward and the venders no longer give players credits when they sell items to them.

If a player corners the market on a specific item and raises the price, inflation has not increased in this 100 billion max credit economy. If a player pays this higher price, this has no effect on the inflation of the economy which is now flat. Prices can fluctuate, inflation can drop if part of that 100 billion credits becomes inactive in the economy then rise again if those inactive credits become active again, but inflation in the game can not exceed the 100 billion credit limit of the economy.

In SWTOR there is no limit on the amount of credits that can exist in our economy so inflation is ever increasing. The price of an item is the result of many factors but it is not the cause of inflation.

The price of items is the result, not the cause.

Exploiting venders during credit dupes, generating credits out of no where, buying credits from third party websites is the cause of inflation.

Higher prices is the result of inflation due to the credit losing value or the result of an item being rare and the value going up because more people desire the item than what is available.

Partially correct, legitimate players do not cause inflation at all. The amount of credits introduced through mission rewards/conquests/etc is minuscule compared to the number of "hoarded" credits whether that be players or credit sellers. Rising prices drive the credit seller/buyer economy which is what causes "inflation". This is becoming an argument over semantics at this point. Whether you call it inflation, or rising prices, or whatever, it's the same problem (prices are far exceeding players ability to generate those credits legitimately through gameplay - The GTN is not gameplay)).

The core problem I have with a lot of the "it's not inflation" posts (and other simiular posts about other topics) is that influential players are coming onto the forums and saying don't bother posting/complaining, Bioware won't listen. Other players listen to those influential players and don't complain and thus Bioware has no idea there is a problem. A lot of the same players saying don't bother are also players vehemently opposed to Bioware getting more involved through moderators or "account reviews". Step 1 is 100%, Bioware needs to enforce their TOS against credit selling  and increase the penalties for being caught buying credits. If you put the credit sellers out of business by deleting their credits, that dries up a huge number of "banked" credits. From there on, there can be a lot of different solutions to bringing prices under control, but if the penalties are high enough, people won't buy credits and the credits that credit sellers are sitting on will be effectively removed from the economy (they won't go away until it is unprofitable for both the buyer and the seller).

[OlBuzzard]

29 minutes ago, DWho said:

Partially correct, legitimate players do not cause inflation at all. The amount of credits introduced through mission rewards/conquests/etc is minuscule compared to the number of "hoarded" credits whether that be players or credit sellers. Rising prices drive the credit seller/buyer economy which is what causes "inflation". This is becoming an argument over semantics at this point. Whether you call it inflation, or rising prices, or whatever, it's the same problem (prices are far exceeding players ability to generate those credits legitimately through gameplay - The GTN is not gameplay)).

The core problem I have with a lot of the "it's not inflation" posts (and other simiular posts about other topics) is that influential players are coming onto the forums and saying don't bother posting/complaining, Bioware won't listen. Other players listen to those influential players and don't complain and thus Bioware has no idea there is a problem. A lot of the same players saying don't bother are also players vehemently opposed to Bioware getting more involved through moderators or "account reviews". Step 1 is 100%, Bioware needs to enforce their TOS against credit selling  and increase the penalties for being caught buying credits. If you put the credit sellers out of business by deleting their credits, that dries up a huge number of "banked" credits. From there on, there can be a lot of different solutions to bringing prices under control, but if the penalties are high enough, people won't buy credits and the credits that credit sellers are sitting on will be effectively removed from the economy (they won't go away until it is unprofitable for both the buyer and the seller).

Nailed it!!

Cutting off the source of the problem is step one.

IMO ... it would also be beneficial to provide really nice items for players to spend legitimately earned credits on (not just credit sinks).  I know....  some are no doubt thinking this will compete with the CM and therefore will never happen.  I don't think that's the case.  At this point some of the really creative minds inside of BW can come up with stuff that is fun and that players will be willing to spend the credits on.

It's not impossible.

[RikuvonDrake]

tldr give out more free cartel coins and make cosmetic items cheaper so less players spend irl cash on cartel coins/cartel market which will have a negative impact on bioware revenue

yea that seems reasonable to expected from bioware, its only cosmetics that are really that crazy expensive, most "normal" items like consumables and regular crafted stuff doesn't cost any crazy amount outside of perhaps gold augs, but those are irrelevant to all players anyway so its whatever

just increase the cost of stuff that players spend credits on, repairs, travel cost, gtn tax and decrease the credits gained from regular stuff like drops, mission rewards and selling trash/items to vendors, overtime that will actually do something with inflation, but most ppl just want cheap cosmetics so here we are with yet again a thread suggesting that

[illgot]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

Partially correct, legitimate players do not cause inflation at all. The amount of credits introduced through mission rewards/conquests/etc is minuscule compared to the number of "hoarded" credits whether that be players or credit sellers. Rising prices drive the credit seller/buyer economy which is what causes "inflation". This is becoming an argument over semantics at this point. Whether you call it inflation, or rising prices, or whatever, it's the same problem (prices are far exceeding players ability to generate those credits legitimately through gameplay - The GTN is not gameplay)).

The core problem I have with a lot of the "it's not inflation" posts (and other simiular posts about other topics) is that influential players are coming onto the forums and saying don't bother posting/complaining, Bioware won't listen. Other players listen to those influential players and don't complain and thus Bioware has no idea there is a problem. A lot of the same players saying don't bother are also players vehemently opposed to Bioware getting more involved through moderators or "account reviews". Step 1 is 100%, Bioware needs to enforce their TOS against credit selling  and increase the penalties for being caught buying credits. If you put the credit sellers out of business by deleting their credits, that dries up a huge number of "banked" credits. From there on, there can be a lot of different solutions to bringing prices under control, but if the penalties are high enough, people won't buy credits and the credits that credit sellers are sitting on will be effectively removed from the economy (they won't go away until it is unprofitable for both the buyer and the seller).

All legitimate players increase inflation. Legitimate players are constantly generating credits out of no where and introducing those credits to the economy. They are earning small amounts of credits each, but when there are millions of players generating small amounts of credits at the same time, this has a big impact on increasing inflation over time.

Are you sure you want to stick with the statement legitimate players "do not cause inflation at all"?

Edited December 5, 2022 by illgot

[DWho]

5 minutes ago, RikuvonDrake said:

snip...

just increase the cost of stuff that players spend credits on, repairs, travel cost, gtn tax and decrease the credits gained from regular stuff like drops, mission rewards and selling trash/items to vendors, overtime that will actually do something with inflation, but most ppl just want cheap cosmetics so here we are with yet again a thread suggesting that

This won't work at all. They have done this several times already. Credit rewards from missions were cut in half and prices still went up. They removed credit rewards from Conquest and still prices went up. The things normal players spend credits on have no impact on the economy. On the other hand, they cut the availability of Guildship encryptions, and prices rose on everything. The cut the CC rewards and prices rose on everything.  GTN tax is about the only one of your suggestions that would work, but there is a cadre of posters that will complain that is unfair.

Leveling a character from 1 to 80 and playing all they way through KotFE/KotET doesn't even net you enough credits to buy the mats for a single purple endgame augment much less enough to equip a character and augments are required for any endgame group play. Show up for an HM or NIM PUG raid with no augments and you will get booted right away.

[DWho]

12 minutes ago, illgot said:

All legitimate players increase inflation. Legitimate players are constantly generating credits out of no where and introducing those credits to the economy. They are earning small amounts of credits each, but when there are millions of players generating small amounts of credits at the same time, this has a big impact on increasing inflation over time.

Are you sure you want to stick with the statement legitimate players "do not cause inflation at all"?

Absolutely. It would take dozens of alts to make enough to even put a dent in the total number of credits in the game (most held by a few players and credit sellers). I've been playing for 10 years and running heroics constantly (literally thousands of them) and I have nowhere near a billion credits much less multiple billions. So yes, normal play does not contribute significantly to inflation. In order for it to contribute, lots of active players would have to have lots of credits, which is clearly not the situation.

At this point, I'll stop referring to is as inflation, since the issue is cost of items across the board

Edited December 5, 2022 by DWho
Clarified use of term inflation

[OlBuzzard]

15 minutes ago, DWho said:

Absolutely. It would take dozens of alts to make enough to even put a dent in the total number of credits in the game (most held by a few players and credit sellers). I've been playing for 10 years and running heroics constantly (literally thousands of them) and I have nowhere near a billion credits much less multiple billions. So yes, normal play does not contribute significantly to inflation. In order for it to contribute, lots of active players would have to have lots of credits, which is clearly not the situation.

At this point, I'll stop referring to is as inflation, since the issue is cost of items across the board

Please note:  I DO have several billion credits.  All of them made legitimately.  Much of it buying / selling stuff off of the GTN.  MOST of that off of stuff that are CM items!  If ANYONE needs a few extra credits it can be done. 

ADDITIONAL NOTE:  This does NOT ADD ANY CREDITS to the game.  This only moves credits around from one player to another.  There are TWO primary sources of excessive credits:

**  Credit farming  (legitimate)
**  Credit sellers / buyers  (NOT legitimate ... and steps need to be taken to stop it!!  Period!!)

Edited December 5, 2022 by OlBuzzard

[DWho]

25 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Please note:  I DO have several billion credits.  All of them made legitimately.  Much of it buying / selling stuff off of the GTN.  MOST of that off of stuff that are CM items!  If ANYONE needs a few extra credits it can be done. 

ADDITIONAL NOTE:  This does NOT ADD ANY CREDITS to the game.  This only moves credits around from one player to another.  There are TWO primary sources of excessive credits:

**  Credit farming  (legitimate)
**  Credit sellers / buyers  (NOT legitimate ... and steps need to be taken to stop it!!  Period!!)

I take it though, you didn't make those billions from mission rewards or conquest. Which is what was suggested as the source of rising prices by the other poster. You can make credits legitimately through the GTN. The only problem is a lot of credits now circulating on the GTN were made through exploits long ago and purchased from credit sellers. Had credit sellers been put away permanently (as well as the people who buy credits from them) years ago, prices now would be substantially lower. One flagship encryption should not cost 10 million credits (I remember when you could get them for about 10 thousand) when you need 200+ to unlock any room. That increase occurred as the game's population dropped, meaning less credits were going into the economy at that time from playing the game (which should have slowed the rate of price increases, not accelerated it). That is just one example of prices increasing while the game population dropped (thus generating less credits overall per year)

I do like your idea of having some cartel market items sold for credits through an "price control" vendor. Bioware should run a script that totals up all the cartel market items in everyone's cargoholds and base the items they sell for credits off that. Penalize people for hoarding items like an alternate currency.

Edited December 5, 2022 by DWho

[microstyles]

1 hour ago, illgot said:

All legitimate players increase inflation. Legitimate players are constantly generating credits out of no where and introducing those credits to the economy. They are earning small amounts of credits each, but when there are millions of players generating small amounts of credits at the same time, this has a big impact on increasing inflation over time.

Are you sure you want to stick with the statement legitimate players "do not cause inflation at all"?

I feel like this is only true if the "legitimate players" in question do not interact with the GTN in any way. In this economy, the tax will obliterate way more credits than can ever be reasonably earned through credit-generating gameplay.

[OlBuzzard]

35 minutes ago, DWho said:

I take it though, you didn't make those billions from mission rewards or conquest. Which is what was suggested as the source of rising prices by the other poster. You can make credits legitimately through the GTN. The only problem is a lot of credits now circulating on the GTN were made through exploits long ago and purchased from credit sellers. Had credit sellers been put away permanently (as well as the people who buy credits from them) years ago, prices now would be substantially lower. One flagship encryption should not cost 10 million credits (I remember when you could get them for about 10 thousand) when you need 200+ to unlock any room. That increase occurred as the game's population dropped, meaning less credits were going into the economy at that time from playing the game (which should have slowed the rate of price increases, not accelerated it). That is just one example of prices increasing while the game population dropped (thus generating less credits overall per year)

I do like your idea of having some cartel market items sold for credits through an "price control" vendor. Bioware should run a script that totals up all the cartel market items in everyone's cargoholds and base the items they sell for credits off that. Penalize people for hoarding items like an alternate currency.

Welll  Yes ... and no!

I did make a lot off of mission rewards and CQ.  BUT the vast majority was made off of CM items that people would post for sale.  I would purchase some of them (VERY limited quantities) ...  then frankly watch the market for the opportune moment to sell.  I have NEVER purchased CM items with RL cash and place it on the GTN.  It should also be noted that those really expensive "packs" ... I have YET to purchase (even for my own use).

What I have found really amusing is the sheer number of massive quantities of stuff placed on the market (particularly crafting items).   I don't mean a handful of maxed out stacks (999) I mean PAGES of huge quantities ALL done by one player.  (Essentially flooding the market).  I can't imagine how many man hours it takes to accumulate that much of ANY item.  And yet several weeks (sometimes months) later the same person is posting yet another round of these massive quantities.  That said:  this does NOT contribute to inflation.  I'm quite certain it screws up the market for someone else who is trying to sell a handful ...but just the same.  I think you see what I'm driving at.

Another major contributing factor is that players were accumulating a lot of credits ... but really nothing to do with them except spend them on the market.  I'm not talking about credit sinks...  I'm taking about stuff like ...  hmmm ... gear (maybe).  Stuff that wouldn't necessarily be a necessity to play the game..  you know just stuff to do!

In any event.  I do believe that (for the most part) we are on the same page.  Unfortunately, some feel as though that the only thing that SWTOR should have is ... log in..  kill stuff come back tomorrow and repeat!  Almost no game that I've been involved does that...  Not even WoW!  It should be noted (yet again) that I've done the same thing playing that game.  I was never as wealthy (But then again, I didn't put that much effort into the process either).  

[DWho]

24 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Welll  Yes ... and no!

I did make a lot off of mission rewards and CQ.  BUT the vast majority was made off of CM items that people would post for sale.  I would purchase some of them (VERY limited quantities) ...  then frankly watch the market for the opportune moment to sell.  I have NEVER purchased CM items with RL cash and place it on the GTN.  It should also be noted that those really expensive "packs" ... I have YET to purchase (even for my own use).

What I have found really amusing is the sheer number of massive quantities of stuff placed on the market (particularly crafting items).   I don't mean a handful of maxed out stacks (999) I mean PAGES of huge quantities ALL done by one player.  (Essentially flooding the market).  I can't imagine how many man hours it takes to accumulate that much of ANY item.  And yet several weeks (sometimes months) later the same person is posting yet another round of these massive quantities.  That said:  this does NOT contribute to inflation.  I'm quite certain it screws up the market for someone else who is trying to sell a handful ...but just the same.  I think you see what I'm driving at.

Another major contributing factor is that players were accumulating a lot of credits ... but really nothing to do with them except spend them on the market.  I'm not talking about credit sinks...  I'm taking about stuff like ...  hmmm ... gear (maybe).  Stuff that wouldn't necessarily be a necessity to play the game..  you know just stuff to do!

In any event.  I do believe that (for the most part) we are on the same page.  Unfortunately, some feel as though that the only thing that SWTOR should have is ... log in..  kill stuff come back tomorrow and repeat!  Almost no game that I've been involved does that...  Not even WoW!  It should be noted (yet again) that I've done the same thing playing that game.  I was never as wealthy (But then again, I didn't put that much effort into the process either).  

yeah, I don't get those stacks either. It really has to be bots running 24/7 (or its a dupe cheat of some kind). I have 50 some characters on Star Forge with 6 of them being crafters (they also have the "mission" mats skills). Pretty much every other character has 3 of the 4 gathering skills and I pick up mats whenever I come across them during play. I have lots of mats but couldn't do pages of the same mat in stacks of 999 (certainly not more than once).

I suggested being able to buy the "matrices" you need for gear upgrades for credits. I think that could be an effective sink without causing too much havok in gearing, especially now as we are nearing the end of gear increases for the expansion. I expect 1 more increase that takes everything except the newest Operation to 240 and that Operation to 250. The one thing I scrape for is usually the Daily Matrices for conquest gear. Unless you have multiple 80s, gearing up a character is a very time consuming process (once you get one there it's not too bad as long as the alts are similar specs).

I think they need to find a way to tax player to player trades off the GTN too or "block" them altogether (perhaps with the other thing I suggested which is once an item is traded, it becomes bound to legacy). flipping items by definition drives up the price. No one would sell an item they bought for less than they paid for it unless they were trying to cut their losses.

I still think that if you manage to level a character all the way to lvl 80 and complete all the story, you should be able to buy at least one good thing with credits without having to "farm" for a year all the while watching the prices go up.

Edit: they could also make Crafting a viable endeavor again to help burn up some of those stockpiled mats.

Edited December 5, 2022 by DWho
See Note

[septru]

 

4 hours ago, DWho said:

The core problem I have with a lot of the "it's not inflation" posts (and other simiular posts about other topics) is that influential players are coming onto the forums and saying don't bother posting/complaining, Bioware won't listen.

uh... what? I made a whole thread complaining about inflation a couple months ago.  So to say that I (btw influential people on the internet lol) don't complain is just wrong. However, I think we need to complain about the right things. Some of your (and others) "solutions" are not practical, never going to work, or just laughable. 

[septru]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

I think they need to find a way to tax player to player trades off the GTN too or "block" them altogether (perhaps with the other thing I suggested which is once an item is traded, it becomes bound to legacy). flipping items by definition drives up the price. No one would sell an item they bought for less than they paid for it unless they were trying to cut their losses.

couple things... 

 

high prices =/= inflation. the game's inflation does not increase from "flipping" items. 

 

but... your solution would actually solve inflation. myself and others have already proposed something similar. https://forums.swtor.com/topic/925339-fix-inflation-please/