Bring back class representatives

[Llacertus]

So far 7.1 has resulted in the lowest population of players since Swtor's release on Steam in July 2020. Without exception, every pvper I've personally talked to has said Swtor's pvp in 6.3 was better than it is now. I don't know how its possible, but somehow the release of this expansion actually caused an overall population drop off compared to how steady it was in 6.0.  Most of the skilled players disappeared for other games after realizing the direction 7.0 went. 

        I believe the reason this game is doing so poorly is the feedback system itself. Listening to every random person on the forums is destined to create a horrible game product. A good proportion of the players that post on the forums likely are only posting because they've had a bad unranked matchup against a class they didn't know how to beat. You're never going to get good solutions from players that don't know how to play the game. Its pretty clear that the dev team doesn't pvp either from all the changes that been be made in since 7.0 released. If the game continues in this direction, it will just keep losing more and more pvpers until it dies off completely.  This is why I believe there should be class representatives. There are players with solo and group ranked experience that know the in's and out's of their class better than 99.99% of the population. These are the people the devs should be listening to when it comes to making changes that affect pvp. Listening to every joe shmo post onto the forums has got us to the point where we are now at the worst point pvp has likely ever been. If the devs took the advice of the players that actually know what they're talking about, there's a good chance that what makes the game better for those players will also make the game better for everyone else.

[Beyrahl]

Not only is there a lack of people capable of doing this, being biased is a real issue.
It's also technically free work. I give feedback regardless but when it becomes like a job without pay, that doesn't quite sound like a hobby anymore. 

[Faltun]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:21 AM, Llacertus said:

So far 7.1 has resulted in the lowest population of players since Swtor's release on Steam in July 2020. Without exception, every pvper I've personally talked to has said Swtor's pvp in 6.3 was better than it is now. I don't know how its possible, but somehow the release of this expansion actually caused an overall population drop off compared to how steady it was in 6.0.  Most of the skilled players disappeared for other games after realizing the direction 7.0 went. 

        I believe the reason this game is doing so poorly is the feedback system itself. Listening to every random person on the forums is destined to create a horrible game product. A good proportion of the players that post on the forums likely are only posting because they've had a bad unranked matchup against a class they didn't know how to beat. You're never going to get good solutions from players that don't know how to play the game. Its pretty clear that the dev team doesn't pvp either from all the changes that been be made in since 7.0 released. If the game continues in this direction, it will just keep losing more and more pvpers until it dies off completely.  This is why I believe there should be class representatives. There are players with solo and group ranked experience that know the in's and out's of their class better than 99.99% of the population. These are the people the devs should be listening to when it comes to making changes that affect pvp. Listening to every joe shmo post onto the forums has got us to the point where we are now at the worst point pvp has likely ever been. If the devs took the advice of the players that actually know what they're talking about, there's a good chance that what makes the game better for those players will also make the game better for everyone else.

Exactly my thoughts!

I ve seen so many horrible nonsense post\crying on this forum, cealry from players that have 0 knowledge of the game. They made the game combat and gear customisation system, easy, simple, dumb. generalisation of everyhting. Every player can write anything on this forum even the ones that have 2 months subscription, while many of the loyal hardcore players that know the game and pay for the game constantly dont even use this forum to bring some voice against dumbing down this game's once great combat system. 6.0. was very good PvP wise and the combat system was quite good, not as complex as before 3.0, but good enough. The population was much higher than now (mostly because of the deeper gearing and combat system i belive), i cheked multiple sources for that, but its enough to log into the game in main time.

We need deeper, more complex combat system! Stop removing things from the game, like abilities, gear stats, gear modding, etc.... because some players that play few weeks of swtor crying on forum or in facebook comment.

6.0 - 6.3 was a pretty good era for swtor, because it added things to the game, tacticals, abilities, amplifiers, proper gear modding. instead of removing things like 7.0 or 3.0 the 2 worst updates for swtor(combat wise).

Edited November 8, 2022 by Faltun

[ZUHFB]

nah, the game wasn't complex back then. I personally never played in that age, but for PvE and PvP prestige pre 3.0 aka Deposer, Conquerer and All galaxy (I think) shows that those people are terrible (generalization) in comparison to an above average guy from 7.0.

Sorry to all the people who think otherwise, I think the people in queue in s10 were much better than now, but I realize this is because I was worse than them, but that is irrelevant because they weren't good, I was just worse. Not to give anyone false ideas: worse in comparison to now, back then they were good in comparison to their peers and the prestige gained is respectable IF the skill hasn't completely vanished.

[Faltun]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

nah, the game wasn't complex back then. I personally never played in that age, but for PvE and PvP prestige pre 3.0 aka Deposer, Conquerer and All galaxy (I think) shows that those people are terrible (generalization) in comparison to an above average guy from 7.0.

Sorry to all the people who think otherwise, I think the people in queue in s10 were much better than now, but I realize this is because I was worse than them, but that is irrelevant because they weren't good, I was just worse. Not to give anyone false ideas: worse in comparison to now, back then they were good in comparison to their peers and the prestige gained is respectable IF the skill hasn't completely vanished.

What are you talking about? Whats the relation between how bad or good you or others were to the complexity of the game's combat system before 3.0?

 

You know back then for example operative had crouch, and you could play it like a ranged against warriors. And had orbital strike you could use it as a defensive to keep the melee away, like a proper engi sniper do it now days. Also had explosive probe and snipe these abilities really gave many more layers\colors to the game combat system. Same can be said about any class, they had more abilities a bigger toolkit and more complex combination of fighting scenarios for each class. Because of this, there was a much bigger gap between good and bad players. And i didnt mention yet, Surge rating which gave one more customisation layer for gearing, Skill tree system for custom builds, And stances for stance dancing. 

 

Today players cant even imagine how complex swtor was and wouldnt be able to perform on the same level as they do in today's swtor. You really needed some brain to perform well and needed much more knowledge of the game to do so.  

 

But anyways its clear they wont do changes that gives that much complexity back, because it was like a TOTALLY different game and today's players wouldnt be able to play it properly.  You can never make those big changes to any game, and its okay.

Nobody except that change from them. I just wanted to note that, many players(mostly PvPers) left the game at that time, after they started to dumb down the game and removing things from the game. 7.0 is kinda similiar because in this patch, they removed so many things from the game again.

 

So lets keep it focused. Like in the original post, lets try to make things back to 6.0 kind of ways, because in the modern swtor era, it added things to the game and it was quite successful, its enough to watch the population charts on multiple sites.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Faltun

[ZUHFB]

42 minutes ago, Faltun said:

And had orbital strike you could use it as a defensive to keep the melee away, like a proper engi sniper do it now days.

Uhm. Okaaaaaaay, I don't think that is going to stop somebody but sureeeee.

 

I mean like you're not even that wrong. I also would like to see a more complex system too, but that can also be achieved with the current one by tweaking around with the choices.

Just break some choice nobody plays and just add something overtuned see how it goes. Just tune it down next week or something if its too good and at some point there will be a complex system of combat. If you see jug maddash you know you can EB in peace since no reflect, but next round he might take it. So the round starts in warm up, maybe use emotes in chat to bait the enemies into taking other choices who knows! Sounds good to me.

[ZUHFB]

47 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Today players cant even imagine how complex swtor was and wouldnt be able to perform on the same level as they do in today's swtor. You really needed some brain to perform well and needed much more knowledge of the game to do so.  

As I said I won't be able to change your mind.

But for PvE this was not the case, so its probable it wasn't for PvP either and you just got much better and the people good back then, or in your mind better than you, quit the game so they would still be better if they didn't? But they wouldn't, you just got too good at the game and thats the truth.

Thought like you at some day, then I watched world first brontes by 7Stuck and changed my mind.

[Faltun]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

Uhm. Okaaaaaaay, I don't think that is going to stop somebody but sureeeee.

Its a pretty basic thing, you can los or root your enemy(melee) and since sniper roots work on a way if the enemy got direct dmg then the root breaks after 2 sec, its not worth to do direct dmg. To use your root with 100% efficiency the right thing to do is use a dot since its not direct dmg, then cast orbital strike on yourself where you stand. then start attacking. Your enemy can decide if he is gonna LOS and wait til Orbital Strike gone or attack you, but then you won a GCD cuz he is gonna have to eat all the orbital strike which you casted while he couldnt do anything. Its more effective against multiple enemies with cover pulse or LOS. The method behind this is the same as sorc and merc use LOS to heal themself, to win GCDs while the melees try to reach them.

 

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

But for PvE this was not the case, so its probable it wasn't for PvP either and you just got much better and the people good back then, or in your mind better than you, quit the game so they would still be better if they didn't? But they wouldn't, you just got too good at the game and thats the truth.

I still dont understand what this has to do with the complexity of the game.  2.0 had things, had more abilities, more stats, more system, more decision to make. Since then they just removed things from the game and changed complex systems to simple systems, or just compeletly removed system. It has nothing to do who was better, there were good and bad players back then like today, the skill gap was bigger tho. That was a more complex system for bad and good players too, with more critical decision to make, more abilities to take care of, more things to pay attention, more things to read and analyze, and a far less scripted gameplay with many more viable builds.

Its the same as wow, if you go and play wow classic WOTLK now in 2022. You will see that, thats a more complex combat system than the current WOW.

You dont see the new wow less complex cuz you became a better player. Its jsut simple not as complex as the old one. Its the same for SWTOR.

This is not subjective thing.

But i think we really talking about things which is not relate to this topic. So i suggest to stop this and let this post focus on the original theme. If you want to talk about the things you mentioned and make it clear what you think, you can hit me in DC: Faltun#0973

Edited November 8, 2022 by Faltun

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, Faltun said:

I still dont understand what this has to do with the complexity of the game.  2.0 had things, had more abilities, more stats, more system, more decision to make. Since then they just removed things from the game and changed complex systems to simple systems, or just compeletly removed system. It has nothing to do who was better, there were good and bad players back then like today, the skill gap was bigger tho. That was a more complex system for bad and good players too, with more critical decision to make, more abilities to take care of, more things to pay attention, more things to read and analyze, and a far less scripted gameplay with many more viable builds.

This is not subjective thing.

Indeed.   And one thing i don't get nowadays is:  If every  combat "style"  has like the "perfect" rotation AND only one "viable"  spec & tactical , then how can certain people claim the game is so hard to play?