I make my team mates in unranked very angry :)

[illgot]

I am an objective player. My focus in unranked PvP is to work the objectives to win. I am there to complete dailies and weeklies. I do not care about my team mates or myself dying as long as it keeps the objectives safe and our team ahead. I keep an eye on the respawn timers and always try and time my dealths for the doors opening.

Most of the time I am a PT tank standing on an objective front and center. PTs have an advantage with shoulder rockets which can be used to interrupt anyone that CCs me. When I am not on my tank I am usually a stealth class fighting very little and guarding the door or waiting to plant a bomb or steal an objective.

All too often players think the point of any unranked PvP match is to attacking anything that moves. That's fine, they can chase around every player they see but I always stick to the objective while stealthed. I am not going to chase players around leaving the objective unguarded.

What I have been running into a lot lately are team mates who become enraged at how I play. They start harassing me in chat for being worthless and not fighting, some try to kick me from the match and I have had team mate Sorcs/Consulars pull my character from the objective into enemy AOEs to get rid of my stealth.

When I play a tank my game play is obvious. I am there to draw attention and use my shoulder rockets to interrupt stealthers to CC me. When I play a stealth my game play seems to be less obvious. I'll only fight when I need to and most of the time I'll sit around doing the boring job of guarding an objective or waiting for the enemy to be distracted to steal an objective.

If you are new or a seasoned player, stop harassing players who play the objectives over combat. Not everyone cares if you die while chasing 3 enemy players all the way back to their spawn.

Edited November 3, 2022 by illgot

[DougTheNoob]

You can do both obj and actually help in the fights. I don't really get this obj x fights thing.I do both just fine and most of the time end up being the first or one of the firsts in dmg. The ppl that focus only in obj and dont get that they need to help kill ppl in order to win(unless its a huttball) are as wrong as the deathmatch players,they at least dont care about anything and just want to look good in the final board while ,most of the time, being carried by a full premade.

But harass u for playing how u like to play is just dumb.Just put em on ignore.

Edited November 3, 2022 by DougTheNoob

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, illgot said:

I am an objective player.

There are nuances to certain 'objectives'  though,  like mentioned within this other thread: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/923860-how-does-pylons-even-make-sense-the-way-we-just-lost-is-garbage/

1 hour ago, DougTheNoob said:

You can do both obj and actually help in the fights.

Agreed ^ ,  it just all depends  wz by wz (and group by group) in my opinion.

[ZUHFB]

I as a player that never plays objective don't flame people that do, I've never seen the things you said before.

What I cannot stand is when I fight a winable but close 1v2 or 1v3 and a stealther just watches me die without helping, just so they can die 15s later to the same people we could've beaten to begin with.

What is the point of PvP if not to PvP?

Why would someone want to win a normal game? To what benefit? There is no reward?

Objective players use 'playing objective' as a coping mechanism to avoid coming to the conclusion that it's a skill issue.

[Lord_Malganus]

A lot of PvP players get ill when team mates are not playing the way they want them to play.

Those who PvP for the purpose of completing dailies/weeklies have a right to do just that.

[ZUHFB]

7 hours ago, Lord_Malganus said:

A lot of PvP players get ill when team mates are not playing the way they want them to play.

Those who PvP for the purpose of completing dailies/weeklies have a right to do just that.

I understand that.

Also gives me the right not to help them win if they watch me die, playing objective this way is just straight up bad and doesn't benefit anybody but the enemies. 

[illgot]

3 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

I understand that.

Also gives me the right not to help them win if they watch me die, playing objective this way is just straight up bad and doesn't benefit anybody but the enemies. 

that's incorrect.

Scenario that pissed off the last person I was teamed with. We were guarding the door on Voidstar. We were both stealth. I am sitting by the door guarding and 2 enemies run up. He immediately engages in combat and doesn't bother CCing either enemy (it was the start of the match so the enemy was not in combat).

He then proceeds to chase both the enemies around the pillars and they started leading him away breaking LOS with the door. At that same time he was focused on the two enemies leading him around the pillars, a stealth popped up near the door I was guarding and started to plant. I CC'd the stealth trying to plant the bomb, they broke the CC, restealthed. I stayed stealthed near the door waiting for more attackers.

Mean while, the operative I that was guarding the door starts getting pissed because I'm not fighting the two people that he is chasing around Voidstar. He either dies or vanishes, then says "I'm not guarding the door with <illgot> because they aren't doing anything" and proceeds to mouth off the rest of the match.

This is the second round.

During the first round, while we were attacking. I got very lucky with a good combination of my team distracting the enemy and the enemy chasing my team mates away from the objective. During the first round someone else planted the first bomb but I opened the first bridge, I planted the bomb on the second door, I opened the first shield in the last room, I planted the third bomb, and I activated the computer at the end because I stayed stealth and avoided combat while my team kept the enemy stalled.

If you are not actively working the objective and chasing people around, I'll let you die and stick around and guard/attack the objective. Thinking you are more important than the objective tells us how important you think you are.

The only exception I make breaking LOS with the objective is with the Hypergate since deaths = points. But then again I'm playing the objective of earning points for the team or stopping the enemy from earning points by helping my team mates to get away and heal. But I'm never going to leave the pylon completely unguarded to chase down a kill.

Edited November 4, 2022 by illgot

[ZUHFB]

41 minutes ago, illgot said:

If you are not actively working the objective and chasing people around, I'll let you die and stick around and guard/attack the objective. Thinking you are more important than the objective tells us how important you think you are.

I think it's important to realize that one defender isn't going to do anything. But this has been talked about plenty already, pretty much all pvpers of name and rank have already said that 'playing objective' is not how to win. You win by defeating the enemies, stalling only delays the inevitable and doesn't solve anything. 

The problem is that the people being stalled aren't nearly good enough to have hands and eyes. Most people in regs just don't qualify as a threat, if they 'play objective' them stack up on the door and it just makes it easier to AOE them down. 

 

And even if you disagree with all of that, you don't pay my sub I can play the game the way I want. That's what I hear in ranked too, there you go.

Edited November 4, 2022 by ZUHFB

[Monterone]

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

I think it's important to realize that one defender isn't going to do anything.

That's complete nonsense. One guard can delay for far longer, playing well, then engaging in mindless combat because only fighting is important. I find your views on this to be very one dimensional, but you're right, nobody pays your sub but you, and nobody can tell you how to play.

However, quit looking for validation here because most good players know that mindless combat does not win games, playing objectives smartly does. And if your team is far ahead of the other team, by all means, do whatever you want. But if it's a close game, chasing numbers has never served the whole team well.

Numbers chasers are just narcissists. And there's a lot of those these days.

[sGroggy]

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

I think it's important to realize that one defender isn't going to do anything.

What? 

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

stalling only delays the inevitable and doesn't solve anything. 

Again: what?

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

'playing objective' is not how to win

Playing objectives in objective-based pvp is not how to win? Interesting.

This seems to be a recurring topic, and it seems some people (not only pointing at you) have difficulties understanding "playing objective" != "brainless node clicking".

To take it to the extreme: if you only DPS and never click a node, would you win? No.

Vice versa, if you only click a node, get killed over and over and have 0 DPS, would you win? No.

To simplify a bit: (to me at least) playing objective equals (but is obviously not restricted to) knowing when to DPS and knowing when to click that node. <rant>And, knowing when to use some goddamn CC instead of brainless pew pew which happens more often than not.</rant> It's not a this OR that story, you need some of everything.

Edited November 4, 2022 by sGroggy

[ZUHFB]

At the end of the day I just don't care if I win or lose. PvP is meant for PvP and not clicky stealthy to then lose 15s slower, doesn't do anything.

But play the game how you want, I'm not your mom. There is a difference between defending and stalling, you only learn defending by participating in combat, but that is not what is meant by playing objective. Usually its backpaddling to the objective cluttered with enemies, dying and then saying 'why nobody stun?'. Stalling only works because the people attacking have playing with one hand maximum, I can go on 8m range as PT and 80% of vengeance guardians will use slam as next GCD and miss - yeah against those people stalling works. Thats why I said people have to defend, anything else does not work against a team of damage farmers, defending is only learned by having combat experience which isn't gained by clicky stealthy.

This game isn't some 5 dimensional chess, it isn't drawing their attention or sneaking in a capture, its being afk but with extra steps.

[TmoneyTime]

13 hours ago, Monterone said:

That's complete nonsense. One guard can delay for far longer, playing well, then engaging in mindless combat because only fighting is important. I find your views on this to be very one dimensional, but you're right, nobody pays your sub but you, and nobody can tell you how to play.

However, quit looking for validation here because most good players know that mindless combat does not win games, playing objectives smartly does. And if your team is far ahead of the other team, by all means, do whatever you want. But if it's a close game, chasing numbers has never served the whole team well.

Numbers chasers are just narcissists. And there's a lot of those these days.

 

That's incorrect. I'm guessing you didn't play ranked 8s ever. DPS pressure is how you win 90% of games. We already know this from ranked 8's. Every map is about map control; that is gained through dps. Always has been.

 

The fact is the OP is playing incorrectly, but I don't really blame players anymore there are no real sources of learning how to play maps optimally anymore. 

[septru]

2 hours ago, TmoneyTime said:

DPS pressure is how you win 90% of games.

This assumes high skilled games. 9 times out of 10, regs are only low skilled games. lol

[ZUHFB]

20 minutes ago, septru said:

This assumes high skilled games. 9 times out of 10, regs are only low skilled games. lol

Yeah exactly. This is why I'm saying that it won't work against actual players. But someone only gets to be an actual player by NOT playing objective, someone just cannot improve by clicky stealthy.

[illgot]

18 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

I think it's important to realize that one defender isn't going to do anything.

This is a difference in play style and ideology. You don't believe that one stealthed player can play an objective faster than a player who jumps at the first enemy they see. This is proven wrong in almost every game where a stealther steals a pylon, plants a bomb, or delays capture long enough for more back up to arrive.
You apparently have never seen a stealth player do any of these things?

Any situation in which a stealth player steals the objective or delays capture is ignored because it doesn't fit your idea of...

9 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

At the end of the day I just don't care if I win or lose. PvP is meant for PvP and not clicky stealthy to then lose 15s slower, doesn't do anything.

No one is telling you how to play, just that you are wrong about a single stealthed player in unranked can make more of a different than an aggressive player that jumps at everything they see.

Edited November 5, 2022 by illgot

[ZUHFB]

22 minutes ago, illgot said:

You apparently have never seen a stealth player steal a pylon or defend their pylon in the last seconds of Hypergate to win the match for their team. I guess you have never seen a stealther CC, target break the CC, stealther vanish and CC again to cap the pylon or plant the bomb.

But it's not a play from the stealther, it's a misplay from the enemies. Straight up luck, nothing more.

 

23 minutes ago, illgot said:

You don't believe that one stealthed defender can slow down multiple players longer than one player who jumps at the first enemy they see.

No, I believe that if BOTH attack the enemy you are actually able to defend, not to stall.

 

24 minutes ago, illgot said:

or delay multiple players long enough for their back up to arrive.

so the backup can die as well since they are now less people, good job nothing was achieved because it's not defending it's stalling. 

 

The only way stealthing around objectives work is if the enemies LET YOU DO IT because they either do not have eyes, or simply do not care. It's like playing tag with a 300kg fat kid that, it's simply not worth chasing it would just be too easy and boring - but the fat kid things it's good because nobody tags it. 

[TmoneyTime]

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

But it's not a play from the stealther, it's a misplay from the enemies. Straight up luck, nothing more.

This is exactly what's happening. Most players are just benefiting from mistakes. It's more of a right place right time than any outplay or skill expression.

Back when hypergate was new. There was an op that would cap everytime right before the pylon exploded. You don't see that anymore.

 

[illgot]

9 hours ago, TmoneyTime said:

This is exactly what's happening. Most players are just benefiting from mistakes. It's more of a right place right time than any outplay or skill expression.

Back when hypergate was new. There was an op that would cap everytime right before the pylon exploded. You don't see that anymore.

 

I see that all the time still, especially this week because of te galactic season goal of 8 unranked pvp matches.

You really think the majority of players in unranked know what they are doing?

I've wasted time looking for a stealth guarding an objective multiple times this week to only find out the enemy team left no guards behind. Finding a single guard my Assassin with Two Cloaks can stun and steal an objective from wasn't hard.

Edited November 6, 2022 by illgot

[Monterone]

14 hours ago, TmoneyTime said:

That's incorrect. I'm guessing you didn't play ranked 8s ever. DPS pressure is how you win 90% of games.

Yes, I did. And we always had a darkness sin in some hybrid spec, whatever they used to be 27/1/14, or something like that... and they always guarded the off node. And we always had a deception sin -- me -- going for the off nodes and usually getting it. Those things won the game. Mid usually never got capped, if we're talking alderaan. Voidstar, same thing. Huttball, even more. Everyone was on the ball, there's no numbers chasing on the side, that's ridiculous to even think of.

Quality of PvP was so much better back then.

[illgot]

3 hours ago, Monterone said:

Yes, I did. And we always had a darkness sin in some hybrid spec, whatever they used to be 27/1/14, or something like that... and they always guarded the off node. And we always had a deception sin -- me -- going for the off nodes and usually getting it. Those things won the game. Mid usually never got capped, if we're talking alderaan. Voidstar, same thing. Huttball, even more. Everyone was on the ball, there's no numbers chasing on the side, that's ridiculous to even think of.

Quality of PvP was so much better back then.

why is he bringing up 8vs8 ranked that no longer exists as a reason why guard/delay tactics in unranked isn't feasible? Even if those tactics never worked in 8vs8 ranked (and they did) it wouldn't apply to unranked where teams sometimes leaving nodes completely unguarded or you have one person guarding standing on top of the node waiting to be CC/break/CC'd a second time.

I agree with you, back in ranked 8vs8 games at least half the team understood how to play. Now in unranked we are lucky to have one or two other people that understand more than attacking anyone that moves.

Edited November 6, 2022 by illgot