Combat Inflation by Eliminating Sales Runs

[ZUHFB]

You ( = sale runners) are the ones ruining the game. You only want to get sale runs going, and you can't have too many people to have their gear or there will be less buyers to milk.

 

You call it reward and you call it easy. You've cleared it, why are you still here? To sell it, that's why. Your "fun" factor now comes from attacking people on the forum. That's one more reason why devs should put an end to it. And the best way to do it is by making the gear accesible for all who want it.

 

I am not selling anymore, I used to plan sales on Tulak Hord for the better part of a year and quite frankly, I'm not up for it anymore. As I said, I do not know of any people buying gear, it would be stupid to anyway.

 

Yeah, it's a reward. R-4 was a challange to complete but they nerfed it quite a bit from PTS and it is just a hardmode raid. It simply isn't too difficult. Me calling it easy is just the reality, each boss has one thing thats hard and once you get that down... well anyway. I am still here because people said this causes inflation when it's simply wrong. People here simply have never sold anything and never will, how would they know? I am actually just typing while on the bus or in the train, it is... kinda fun yeah! The devs probably should, but they can't.

 

If gear is accesible to everybody that wants it FOR ME personally I am going to be done with it day 1. It is straight up just boring, now you have to look for people, play a semi viable comp, you need lockouts versatile people and then you go and have fun and mald when someone gets 3 tokens in a row, but nobody is actually mad. Most of the time it's even streamed on twitch if you don't believe me.

 

Again, content has only gotten easier and now everybody has access to 330, which has already been proven to work PRENERF so it has to work now too. I don't see why it's a big deal that some can improve over the limit, again it doesn't effect anybody. All this is is jealously.

[ZUHFB]

The only thing that was wrong with 6.0 gearing was the million types of mods there was.

Also some BiS set bonuses were basically free, when someone else had to pray RNG gods to get theirs. That was just bad design. All classes should have had equal opportunity for their set bonuses.

 

Other than that, 6.0 gearing was perfect.

 

They do right now btw

[bluehufsa]

I don't see why it's a big deal that some can improve over the limit, again it doesn't effect anybody. All this is is jealously.

 

Improvement is not an issue, it is none of my business what others do in game.

The real issue are the run sales, they damage the game economy and the reputation of genuine NiM players.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the 340 , it is not really required for anything I enjoy doing ( heroics, flashpoints, SM/HM operations, class missions, planetary ARCs) .

What really bothers me are the endlessly increasing prices in GTN : I wanted a Silent Ghost armor set, it was.. 300 mil ! Why? Because inflation! Inflation has to stop and if Anomaly op sale runs contribute to it, then something has to be done about it.

[Crystal_Mind]

What really bothers me are the endlessly increasing prices in GTN : I wanted a Silent Ghost armor set, it was.. 300 mil ! Why? Because inflation! Inflation has to stop and if Anomaly op sale runs contribute to it, then something has to be done about it.

 

Protip: You can get the Silent Ghost set in the Cartel Bazaar for 3x cartel certs and 100k credits.

[Deaconik]

Improvement is not an issue, it is none of my business what others do in game.

The real issue are the run sales, they damage the game economy and the reputation of genuine NiM players.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the 340 , it is not really required for anything I enjoy doing ( heroics, flashpoints, SM/HM operations, class missions, planetary ARCs) .

What really bothers me are the endlessly increasing prices in GTN : I wanted a Silent Ghost armor set, it was.. 300 mil ! Why? Because inflation! Inflation has to stop and if Anomaly op sale runs contribute to it, then something has to be done about it.

Something had to be done earlier, nowadays it§s like trying to stop an inferno with crying over it. The current inflation needs drastic measures and any drastic measure will kill the game faster than the inflation. Long time ignoring the problem is taking its tol.

[Chryptyk]

 

If gear is accesible to everybody that wants it FOR ME personally I am going to be done with it day 1. It is straight up just boring, now you have to look for people, play a semi viable comp, you need lockouts versatile people and then you go and have fun and mald when someone gets 3 tokens in a row, but nobody is actually mad. Most of the time it's even streamed on twitch if you don't believe me.

 

Again, content has only gotten easier and now everybody has access to 330, which has already been proven to work PRENERF so it has to work now too. I don't see why it's a big deal that some can improve over the limit, again it doesn't effect anybody. All this is is jealously.

 

You look in a very small pool. You probably don't even associate with anyone without their timers already is my guess. Well, for the rest of us, it's not quite as easy as you say things are. You haven't struggled in I don't know how long. You've forgotten what it's like. 330 gear isn't enough for them currently. For 6 years, gear truly didn't matter because we did all have the same gear. Everyone having access to 330 is not equal because there is also 340. When everyone can actually have 340 and they stop coming out with new tiers and we can all be the same again, then the gear really won't matter.

 

What does it hurt you for everyone to have the same gear? Nothing. It does help others though. You might think better gear won't help people, but it does. Especially, with more nerfs coming I suspect. In the current environment, even with 330 gear, the majority of people are still struggling. Do they need to get better? Certainly, but closing off what lower skilled people need to get over the hump keeps them stuck where they are at. They need success in order to keep them going. People who can do everything, that's great for them, but everyone else needs to reasonably be able to get there as well.

[DeannaVoyager]

Me calling it easy is just the reality,

 

I think we've already established that the rest of us don't share your "reality". It is nothing more than an opinion, and you are quite alone with it.

[DeannaVoyager]

They do right now btw

 

Again, that's an opinion. Not a fact. And there are way more people saying the opposite.

[DeannaVoyager]

You look in a very small pool. You probably don't even associate with anyone without their timers already is my guess. Well, for the rest of us, it's not quite as easy as you say things are. You haven't struggled in I don't know how long. You've forgotten what it's like. 330 gear isn't enough for them currently. For 6 years, gear truly didn't matter because we did all have the same gear. Everyone having access to 330 is not equal because there is also 340. When everyone can actually have 340 and they stop coming out with new tiers and we can all be the same again, then the gear really won't matter.

 

What does it hurt you for everyone to have the same gear? Nothing. It does help others though. You might think better gear won't help people, but it does. Especially, with more nerfs coming I suspect. In the current environment, even with 330 gear, the majority of people are still struggling. Do they need to get better? Certainly, but closing off what lower skilled people need to get over the hump keeps them stuck where they are at. They need success in order to keep them going. People who can do everything, that's great for them, but everyone else needs to reasonably be able to get there as well.

 

Once again, well said.

 

The problem is he wouldn't have "fun" if more people had access to 340 gear too. That's how it hurts him. He wouldn't have sale runs, if more people had 340 gear. That's how it hurts him. It's all about him and his needs.

 

You are absolutely correct that gear shouldn't matter. Skill should be the only factor, but it's not anymore. What worked perfectly for years has been ruined because 1% of the players couldn't feel special without getting an edge over others. Pathetic.

 

I have a friend who is parsing every day and he was very high on leaderboard before 7.1. I've been trying to tell him that he is now doing worse (compared to others) because he only has 330 gear with purple augments while the "better" folks have 340 with golden augments. He is very disheartened by the fact that he has to compete against players in better gear and is considering of quitting the game because he finds the situation unfair. I'm lucky I'm not competitive enough to care about the leaderboards, but I feel very bad for him.

[ZUHFB]

Again, that's an opinion. Not a fact. And there are way more people saying the opposite.

 

I meant equal chances for every class.

[ZUHFB]

 

The problem is he wouldn't have "fun" if more people had access to 340 gear too. That's how it hurts him. He wouldn't have sale runs, if more people had 340 gear. That's how it hurts him. It's all about him and his needs.

 

Again, I am not selling - but besides that yeah, you are correct. If the vast majority of players is able to get to max gear I am going to have it week one. I don't see why there shouldn't be gear that is FACTUALLY good enough for every operation and then extra gear from the new content on the hardest difficulty. It's not called hardmode so that someone with 32 APM can clear it.

 

You are absolutely correct that gear shouldn't matter. Skill should be the only factor, but it's not anymore. What worked perfectly for years has been ruined because 1% of the players couldn't feel special without getting an edge over others. Pathetic.

 

Skill is the only thing that matters... and if someone would have it they wouldn't wipe to IPCTP. Why do you get more gear even though it's not needed? How am I supposed to know, but hard content giving better gear is really more the norm than anything else.

[DeannaVoyager]

Again, I am not selling - but besides that yeah, you are correct. If the vast majority of players is able to get to max gear I am going to have it week one. I don't see why there shouldn't be gear that is FACTUALLY good enough for every operation and then extra gear from the new content on the hardest difficulty. It's not called hardmode so that someone with 32 APM can clear it.

 

So we are back to using condescending strawman arguments. But at least you finally admitted that you are only here to bully and attack everyone who you think are beneath you.

 

 

Skill is the only thing that matters... and if someone would have it they wouldn't wipe to IPCTP. Why do you get more gear even though it's not needed? How am I supposed to know, but hard content giving better gear is really more the norm than anything else.

 

And here we go again... back to the broken record. It's only "norm" in your head or this discussion wouldn't even exist. I do find it a bit amusing though, that you need better gear than the rest of the raiding community to feel worthy.

[ZUHFB]

Yep thats why I play with 2500 accuracy and 1800 alacrity in a 328 gearscore on IPCPT. I just don't feel worthy

[DeannaVoyager]

Yep thats why I play with 2500 accuracy and 1800 alacrity in a 328 gearscore on IPCPT. I just don't feel worthy

 

So you mean you lied (again) about doing 17 out of 18 characters in R-4? Why am I not surprised.

[ZUHFB]

So you mean you lied (again) about doing 17 out of 18 characters in R-4? Why am I not surprised.

 

No you misunderstand, I am full gear on TANK (Tulak) and Tank + DPS (Darth Malgus), but obviously i'm dpsing IPCPT on Tulak too, yes I have more than enough tokens to fix that but I don't want to play more DPS so I am not going to. Not like it matters anyway.

[DeannaVoyager]

No you misunderstand, I am full gear on TANK (Tulak) and Tank + DPS (Darth Malgus), but obviously i'm dpsing IPCPT on Tulak too, yes I have more than enough tokens to fix that but I don't want to play more DPS so I am not going to. Not like it matters anyway.

 

Ok, so you are not lying. You are just withholding the whole truth and bending it to fit your narrative when needed. Gotcha.

[ZUHFB]

Ok, so you are not lying. You are just withholding the whole truth and bending it to fit your narrative when needed. Gotcha.

 

If I explain every detail of why I am not gearing even though I could do that, not only would it make no sense, but we would get nowhere. We are already getting nowhere with this and I think I'm pretty much done.

 

1. Sales do not contribute in a meaningful way to inflation

2. Gearing is fair, gearing has NOTHING to do with sales

3. Saleraids should probably be banned, but you can't really do that

4. I am not lying nor controling any narratives, this is not reddit. Am I supposed to share every detail?

[DeannaVoyager]

If I explain every detail of why I am not gearing even though I could do that, not only would it make no sense, but we would get nowhere. We are already getting nowhere with this and I think I'm pretty much done.

 

1. Sales do not contribute in a meaningful way to inflation

2. Gearing is fair, gearing has NOTHING to do with sales

3. Saleraids should probably be banned, but you can't really do that

4. I am not lying nor controling any narratives, this is not reddit. Am I supposed to share every detail?

 

1. Yes it does.

2. Gearing isn't fair, and it's now pay to win because you can buy gear from the sale runners who then sell their credits to credit sellers for real money.

3. They should be banned because they are devaluing legitimate cheevos. Sale runners who sell their credits to 3rd party for real money are breaking TOS. Everyone who buys credits from 3rd party are also breaking TOS. Chryptyk already had an idea how to catch the sale runners: follow the money. If more people would have access to BiS gear they wouldn't have to buy it and sale runners wouldn't be milking the community and contributing to the inflation.

4. You are.

[ZUHFB]

Honestly you got no idea about sales and it shows. Following the money wouldn't do anything because saleraids aren't against the ToS so if someone does not sell their credits do you ban them to for taking possibly bought credits? What if they get paid in hypercrates? What if you buy a hypercrate for CC and sell it for possibly bought credits? Is that banable too now?

 

The fact is that many people here just have no idea how sales are done, by whom or in what quantity. It however, is in no way P2W and failing to see that isn't suprising. I tried explaining it from the point of what would have ro happen in order foe it to be P2W but this is simply not P2W - because there is nothing you win.

 

One last part, even though I joined another sales team very recently, DO NOT BUY ANYTHING! It is wasted credits and you WILL regret it. But if you do I'll still gladly take the credits for 30mins of work. 8B for killing one boss? Sign me up. Is it unethical and unfair that someone gets an achievement you can't get? Probably, but honestly I just don't care enough You'll get them all sooner or later.

Edited September 2, 2022 by ZUHFB

[Chryptyk]

Sales runs are the fruit of the poisoned tree. The people buying a run, buy the funds from credits sellers (against ToS), or now, buy hypercrates from the credit sellers (still against ToS). The prices for a sale run create the demand for people to buy from the credit sellers (against ToS). Those funds are redistributed to the runners, who already are at max credits, and they are forced to buy crates or other big credit items to stay under cap. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the runners are selling their hypercrates that they have in storage to the credit sellers now as well.

 

A single source multi-transfer of credits should be very flaggable and traceable. So ban all parties involved. Crack down on the credit sellers and buyers. The problem now however, is that since payment is being shifted to hypercrates, a transfer of a more modest number of those (7, 14, or 15) is not so noticeable.

 

And apparently on Darth Malgus, you can pay via credit card (dunno how you distribute that other than some kinda cash app, and again very against ToS, in which case you ban the entire sales team).

 

And yes, we do know who is selling and how the process works.

[ZUHFB]

Then why did you only explain payment if you know how it works... and you didn't even get the 100% correct.

 

Very few teams accept paypal, it is not worth it. If a cratomatic costs 20b and wings 30b what are you tracking again? Just doesn't work like this dude.

 

Not liking sales is fine, its subjective, but objectively they do not harm the economy or you. I feel like once you do sales it's a different feeling I dunno, I remember a time where I thought sales are a big problem. And then I did them and I realized ok this kinda cool, once you are at a point you can do sales you know who bought and who didn't anyway.

[DeannaVoyager]

Then why did you only explain payment if you know how it works... and you didn't even get the 100% correct.

 

Very few teams accept paypal, it is not worth it. If a cratomatic costs 20b and wings 30b what are you tracking again? Just doesn't work like this dude.

 

Not liking sales is fine, its subjective, but objectively they do not harm the economy or you. I feel like once you do sales it's a different feeling I dunno, I remember a time where I thought sales are a big problem. And then I did them and I realized ok this kinda cool, once you are at a point you can do sales you know who bought and who didn't anyway.

 

People are hoarding hypercrates to bypass credit caps. Hoarding leads to less CM items on the market, which leads to demand being higher than supply, which leads to everything getting insanely expensive. Just like crafting mat prices skyrocketed when a) crafting was obliterated in 6.0 and b) with 7.0 there is not even jawa junk left to buy the mats. Supply and demand do not meet.

 

Sale runs could also easily be eliminated just by BW saying so. It's not that tricky to bust the sale runners after that anyhow, because the buyers (or people who claim to be buyers) will know who is selling, and they can easily report the sellers.

 

And about what you said sellers know who bought and who didn't. I already said that on one of the early pages. Sellers knowing is not good enough. Everyone needs to know. Problem with buyers is that those people use their "cheevos" to get into groups where they waste everyone's else's time by not having a clue of what they are doing. Previously this wouldn't have been a problem because you could just replace them. It's a problem now if you manage to kill anything with them but need to replace them anyhow, no-one will want to step in when 1-2 bosses are already down.

 

Sale runs are definitely hurting the game in several ways and they need to be ended.

[ZUHFB]

Previously this wasn't a problem because it isn't one either. I have never EVER had a buyer sign up to a fleet pug where they needed ach, and if they would've you could just kick them. It is also false that nobody wants to raid for only the last two bosses, nobody has the weekly anyway, no reason to fill your inventory with garbage. If you really think your achievments like... please stop being so insecure?

 

I just get the feeling that something is of about this discussion put I can't yet put finger on it. It just feels like what you say is what people think happens but its not at all how any of this works i dunno.

[bluehufsa]

Very few teams accept paypal

 

Is that a ToS violation admission?

[ZUHFB]

Is that a ToS violation admission?

 

Yes other people break the ToS?

 

I have never nor will I ever RMT, I am simply in no need of credits or real life currency. Other people do RMT, which is what I said stop trying to change what I said.

Edited September 3, 2022 by ZUHFB