Keep the presence capped

[Cleev]

This is a bogus argument, you have total control over how much you can level them. You don't need to have them 50, they can be whatever you decide you need them to be. If you want them on the weaker side then don't level them up.

 

This is a bad argument, upgrading companions are part of SWTOR that you shouldn't be denied if you want the game harder. And even at level 1 they are still very strong.

[Scattergun]

Hell no, go back to how the game was before 7.0. The people who say it was too easy are free to not max out companions and free to put lower rated mods in their armor and weapons.

[Sethenon]

This is a bad argument, upgrading companions are part of SWTOR that you shouldn't be denied if you want the game harder. And even at level 1 they are still very strong.

 

You have complete control over your companion. You don't need to upgrade them - it's an option. You aren't being denied anything, you're making a choice to keep it difficult for yourself. That's a decision you make for *yourself* and it shouldn't be applied to everyone else.

[Cleev]

You have complete control over your companion. You don't need to upgrade them - it's an option. You aren't being denied anything, you're making a choice to keep it difficult for yourself. That's a decision you make for *yourself* and it shouldn't be applied to everyone else.

What don't you get about upgrading companions being part of the character progression in this game? If you have to stop progressing because the game would then turn too easy, it's a game problem. And even at level 1 they are still very strong.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Cleev

[Langela]

[snip] but the presence at 50 is lower than before, as it should be.

 

What, is this even an argument? If you wanted "lower than 50" you had 40+ degrees of "lower" to look for! More options that could suit more different player requirements is always better than fewer options, that would please only a few. Your "should be" is not necessarily my own and 50 degrees of strength coming from companions could fit the whole range of players, from those that are happy with next to none, to those that rely on their companions for whatever reason. Also, don't forget that some bought that token from the Cartel Market, for real money only to find it useless now! Selling such items to players binds BW to certain obligations that cannot be altered without consequences.

 

On the other hand, what would a Presence Datacron say: "You... potentially get +2 presence (mastery, endurance...), as that might count as +0.25 when on certain areas, +0.75 on areas" and so on. Same goes for all the other stats gained through other datacrons: retain them no matter what, or else just take all those quests away and don't trick people into thinking it would be worth anything.

[Sethenon]

What don't you get about upgrading companions being part of the character progression in this game? If you have to stop progressing because the game would then turn too easy, it's a game problem. And even at level 1 they are still very strong.

 

What don't you get about it's *your* choice? There are plenty of options to make it more difficult for yourself and still progress. Sorry but the solution to the issue is already in the game.

[Cleev]

Also, don't forget that some bought that token from the Cartel Market, for real money only to find it useless now!

You still get more presence with higher influence. So no, it's not useless.

 

What don't you get about it's *your* choice? There are plenty of options to make it more difficult for yourself and still progress. Sorry but the solution to the issue is already in the game.

How is it my choice if I'm forced to stop upgrading my companion? It is part of character progession, part of the game. The solution are bad solutions. You yourself have plenty of options if you find the game too hard.

[Langela]

What don't you get about upgrading companions being part of the character progression in this game? If you have to stop progressing because the game would then turn too easy, it's a game problem. And even at level 1 they are still very strong.

 

And what don't you get about upgrading companions being part of the character progression in this game? If "progression" doesn't lead to a (significant) improvement in their efficiency, why should I even bother doing it? What kind of ... progression is that?

 

You also seem to want progression, but then don't care if its rewards are totally nullified by the capping system. I don't need a rank 50 companion... in my stronghold, just to look pretty - if I put time and resources into getting companion stronger is because I need them on the field! I don't find any logic in pouring resources into upgrading companions only to hear them "I can't last much longer" when I'm out on the field. If I can't rely on their help it's like not having them at all!

[IramUnleashed]

Then have them revert it, and simply don't play with a companion. Everyone wins.

[Sethenon]

You still get more presence with higher influence. So no, it's not useless.

 

 

How is it my choice if I'm forced to stop upgrading my companion? It is part of character progession, part of the game. The solution are bad solutions. You yourself have plenty of options if you find the game too hard.

 

You aren't forced to do anything - if you want a more difficult game then use the options. You don't like the options, I get that but they are there regardless of whether you like them or not. Yes, there are options for people who do find it too difficult but there's only 1 of us that's advocating a universal solution that be applied to everyone else rather than a choice a person makes for just themselves.

[Langela]

[snip]. You yourself have plenty of options if you find the game too hard.

 

Like what? If companions in SOLO content are useless in spite of their "maximum efficiency" at rank 50, what other option do I have left? Uh, not playing the game?

That's a "brilliant" idea! Guess that was the point where the development team is hoping to get anyone that thinks about this issue the same way I do.

[Cleev]

Can some one help me understand why I'm having trouble with anything that has more than 2 silvers in a group now? Ossus inflection point took me a few hours till I got someone to help me because Malgus was useless as a healer. Eternal Championship took me 5 hours 47 minutes to do last 3 bosses kept destroying my comp. Ossus heroic 4 daily I get wrecked before my comp can heal me up again. I get I can't do all of the content I used to, but If I paid 6500 CC grinded countless hours and learned the synergy of using my comp that way.

 

Why am I now getting punished for it? Seeing how dailies are now integral to getting geared up now seems counter-productive to getting that goal done solo. This Effectively make it so any solo players have next to no way to gear up now. I put in the MONEY, TIME, EFFORT to get to where I am now.

 

Sure, I'll try. First of all, soloing high level content like MM fps that is intended for a high-end geared group should tell you all you need to know how OP companions were. Companions got rightfully nerfed from being OP to normal. So they won't quickly nuke down those group with more than two silver mobs and you, the player, have to actually plan the fights a bit and use your skills again.

Ossus Idk, haven't done that since 7.0, but Heroic 4 means recommended 4 players. Eternal Championship I did solo two days ago in under 2 hours, and somewhere in this thread another person also posted proof that you can do it solo with a heal HK-51. So it is possible, maybe you could ask in another thread for tipps and look for other people to join.

I don't understand what you mean by punished, you still have the strongest healing comp, yes not overpowered as before, but still very strong. And the dailies are still entirely soloable, and if you still have extrem problems with it, just group up. You are among hundreds of others who want to gear up with dailies.

 

 

@others I'm sorry guys, I really would love to reply to all of you in a quick manner, but obviously I want to play the game as well and have other stuff to do.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Cleev

[BRKMSN]

General story and planet content should be easy content. These things are more about the story than the challenge. I wouldn't mind seeing the difficulty on class story boss fights increased to original release standards, but the rest of the story stuff should be a cakewalk. When a player desires a challenge, we have Warzones, and GSF for player vs player challenge and we have Increased difficulty modes on Flashpoints, Uprisings, and Operations. There is room for both easy and challenging in this game.

 

I'll never consider myself much more than an average player (in terms of skill). The changes to companion effectiveness has been very noticeable in 7.0. When I play the Manaan story on a DPS, It's slightly more challenging than story missions pre 7.0. It definitely takes longer to advance through trash. With rewards for everything in the game being nerfed, few players find the extended time dealing with trash mobs to be fun, let alone rewarding. In some cases the mobs will require planning and use of CCs, interrupts, and DCDs in order to survive. With healer comps, I find myself actually using med packs and occasionally leaving combat before my health runs out. It was even more troublesome when I played as a healer as DPS comps don't seem to be performing like they used to in story content.

 

I've never felt like a trash mob should be able to kill a player in story content or wipe a group in veteran mode. IMO, that should be the baseline thinking for difficulty tuning. Then when players really want challenges, they can participate in PvP or MM content. There are some things that give solo players challenging content as well like Difficulty settings for Chapters, Eternal Championship, and attempting to run veteran mode FPs or Uprisings with just their companion. All of these things, however, are affected by worse companion performance.

 

There was an old saying: "An environmentalist is just a person that already built himself a cabin in the woods with a redwood deck and doesn't want anybody else to be able to do the same." That's what this seems like to me. Some people that have already mastered the challenge aspect of certain content (i.e. such as EC) that they no longer play, maybe are hoping their Achievements for completing that in the past when things were easier and comps were "OP" are more exclusive as players that haven't reached those goals will now experience more trouble as a result of presence nerfs.

[JojoKasei]

What don't you get about upgrading companions being part of the character progression in this game? If you have to stop progressing because the game would then turn too easy, it's a game problem. And even at level 1 they are still very strong.

 

Ever since companion dialogues and quests were removed from the influence system there is not progression of any kind here. You level influence because you want them stronger. Or like the number 50, I guess. If you don't like your steak well done, don't leave it on the grill for too long. If you want your companions to be weaker, don't level them.

Either way, not levelling them has no effect on character progression whatsoever, unless you *really* need to scratch that intense RP itch to have the companions like you more over time. But if that is the case, don't you dare use compeniums or give them more than a gift a day, otherwise they will surely assume you have ulterior motives. Also they like variation, so always the same won't cut it. And if you just shower them with gifts - even over time - they will get creeped out. Need to watch that behaviour!

Edited March 6, 2022 by JojoKasei

[DWho]

Nerfing them was entirely needed and putting them on passive or influence at 1 is unacceptable considering they are an integral part of the appeal in SWTOR. Afaik it's not even a "hard cap", you still have more presence at 50, but the presence at 50 is lower than before, as it should be.

 

Exactly the expected response because the whole nerf companions drive never was about making the game more challenging for most of the "game is too easy" people but about making it harder or more tedious for others.

 

It is a hard cap just like all the other stat caps. The only thing that allows you to exceed any of them now is stims and the contribution of those stims is insignificant (with and without the stims Influence 1 and Influence 50 all perform almost exactly the same). Presence at 50 is +2450 compared to Influence 1 just like it was in 6.0.

 

Edit: Here is the Presence stat with Companion Influence in case you missed it:

 

Presence Stat with a companion of the level (Influence) listed below

 

Level 1: 1511

Level 2: 1561

Level 4: 1661

Level 7: 1811

Level 18: 2361

Level 50: 3961

Edited March 6, 2022 by DWho

[juliushorst]

Eternal Championship I did solo two days ago in under 2 hours, and somewhere in this thread another person also posted proof that you can do it solo with a heal HK-51. So it is possible, maybe you could ask in another thread for tipps and look for other people to join.

 

I'm sorry but if it took you two hours and you actually enjoy the game as it is now, I think I would've died of frustration doing it. And I need to remind you, it's meant to be finished in under 15 minutes by a skilled player so assuming you are skilled and it took you about two hours - it's absolutely broken.

[juliushorst]

Seems to me you have an elitest mindset and demand others play the way you do.

 

He's far from being the worst kind of elitist. He likes the game one way, we like the game the other way and it's BW's job to make us all happy. Multiple solutions have been suggested (separate instances, veteran stacks on green gear, skill or item that can be turned on and off that restores old difficulty) and I think it would be more productive to bother BW to pick and implement one of them than argue among ourselves.

In the end it's BW who designed the game this way and it's them who really need to hear what we think about it so I recommend voicing your thoughts here where Keith is more likely to read it.

 

So now we are talking about artificially slowing down the combat to slow your progression to keep you in game longer right?

 

If this was the goal it failed, like things in 7.0. I already have full green 326 and full purple 326 sets.

The real bummer? With new scaling this gear does nothing in scaled content. There is no difference in performance between this gear and my old 306s.

 

More work, same reward? Where have you ever heard that people enjoy that?

 

But it's not. It's actually "more work, less reward".

[Cleev]

Exactly the expected response because the whole nerf companions drive never was about making the game more challenging for most of the "game is too easy" people but about making it harder or more tedious for others.

I don't know how you make that conclusion but whatever.

It is more challenging now and fun now. You just want to make it boring and tedious again.

Yeah I should have articulated it correctly, I meant you still have more presence with higher influence when you are level capped. That part was missing.

[Cleev]

snip

"but the rest of the story stuff should be a cakewalk. When a player desires a challenge, we have Warzones, and GSF for player vs player challenge and we have Increased difficulty modes on Flashpoints, Uprisings, and Operations. There is room for both easy and challenging in this game. "

 

Why should it be cakewalk? Who made up this rule? The problem is that the stories were unreasonably way too easy that at times they turn more ridiculous than believable. The mighty, terrifying Sith Emperor dying to an astromech droid in 5 seconds, how is this fun in any way? This a game, not a movie. I'll agree that story should never require high performance, and they never did. When a player desires easy content, they can play the stories, roleplaying, space missions, planetary dailies, solo and veteran flashpoints. The stories alone probably make up 80% of the game's content, so easy, solo players have tons of content.

What you find troublesome, I find fun. I like having to use my cooldowns and plan the fights a bit. Being overpowered and mobs dying in 3 seconds is boring.

 

"I've never felt like a trash mob should be able to kill a player in story content or wipe a group in veteran mode."

 

That's why most of the game has trash groups of 2 to 5+ mobs and different difficulty levels of mobs. IMO, there absolutely should be a chance of failure if you play really, really bad against a single gold or champion mob. There should be a higher minimum required skill level, with the way it was before, it was mind-numbingly easy.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Cleev

[Cleev]

I'm sorry but if it took you two hours and you actually enjoy the game as it is now, I think I would've died of frustration doing it. And I need to remind you, it's meant to be finished in under 15 minutes by a skilled player so assuming you are skilled and it took you about two hours - it's absolutely broken.

 

Okay, then that's you. I don't know what to say? And where do get this 15 mins? If that is true, then that obviously means I'm not this elite super sweaty tryhard that you try to paint me. And even I think the game was too easy!

 

Regarding that other guy, if someone starts his post with "you are elitist/ x y z" I'm not gonna bother reading the rest.

[DWho]

I don't know how you make that conclusion but whatever.

It is more challenging now and fun now. You just want to make it boring and tedious again.

Yeah I should have articulated it correctly, I meant you still have more presence with higher influence when you are level capped. That part was missing.

 

It is more challenging and more fun for you, but it seems from the forum posts, a lot of people just find it more tedious. By the way, the "People who enjoy the game don't post in the forums" argument cuts both ways. In 6.0 when the companions were strong very few people came to the forums to post that they loved strong companions so most people must have liked them the way they were.

 

Having more of something that doesn't count for anything is the same as not having it (unless it changes in the future - we can only hope)

[juliushorst]

Okay, then that's you. I don't know what to say? And where do get this 15 mins?

 

Speed Champion achievement

 

If that is true, then that obviously means I'm not this elite super sweaty tryhard that you try to paint me.

 

Hey, I never called you "sweaty" or questioned your personal hygiene in any way! I think we came to an agreement - as long as I have an option to play the game the way I enjoy it I'm not bothered by you being able to play it the way you enjoy it.

 

And even I think the game was too easy!

 

I think I made it clear - I don't find decreasing my damage output and increasing enemy damage output fun, I find it to be a joyless slog and the only challenge I find is to actually force myself to launch the game. They want to add more "puzzle fights" (like Operator IX or ARIES) - that's perfectly fine, that's the kind of difficulty I enjoy. The kind of difficulty they added in 7.0 I will oppose (or be asking for a way to opt-out) until my last breath or, to be less dramatic: last day of my subscription.

Edited March 6, 2022 by juliushorst

[uchicaitachi]

The nerf would be great if it actually did what it was supposed to do.

But it is obvious that scaling isn't working on lower levels.

Have you tried doing solo Uprisings? Some of them are impossible.

The bosses can kill you in 3-4 hits and your 50 level companion crit heals you for 8% of your total life. Also, have you tried doing any 70-80 content without full 306 gear?

Try to level up a new character and then tell me if it is just challenging.

The solo play should be able to cater to the average player. and whether you like it or not, the average player is... well.. average..

[Cleev]

It is more challenging and more fun for you, but it seems from the forum posts, a lot of people just find it more tedious. By the way, the "People who enjoy the game don't post in the forums" argument cuts both ways. In 6.0 when the companions were strong very few people came to the forums to post that they loved strong companions so most people must have liked them the way they were.

 

Having more of something that doesn't count for anything is the same as not having it (unless it changes in the future - we can only hope)

 

Yeah and? People who like the game are ingame and who don't complain in the forums. Nothing changed. Was this supposed to be some sort of gotcha! moment?

The presence does increase companion stats, but not too OP, and we can only hope it stays.

[BRKMSN]

"but the rest of the story stuff should be a cakewalk. When a player desires a challenge, we have Warzones, and GSF for player vs player challenge and we have Increased difficulty modes on Flashpoints, Uprisings, and Operations. There is room for both easy and challenging in this game. "

 

Why should it be cakewalk? Who made up this rule? The problem is that the stories was unreasonably way too easy that at times they turn more ridiculous than believable. The mighty, terrifying Sith Emperor dying to an astromech droid in 5 seconds, how is this fun in any way? This a game, not a movie. I'll agree that story should never require high performance, and they never did. When a player desires easy content, they can play the stories, roleplaying, space missions, planetary dailies, solo and veteran flashpoints. The stories alone probably make up 80% of the game's content, so easy, solo players have tons of content.

What you find troublesome, I find fun. I like having to use my cooldowns and plan the fights a bit. Being overpowered and mobs dying in 3 seconds is boring.

 

"I've never felt like a trash mob should be able to kill a player in story content or wipe a group in veteran mode."

 

That's why most of the game has trash groups of 2 to 5+ mobs and different difficulty levels of mobs. IMO, there absolutely should be a chance of failure if you play really, really bad against a single gold or champion mob. There should be a higher minimum required skill level, with the way it was before, it was mind-numbingly easy.

 

At the end of The Mandalorian (season 2), we saw our hero, Din Djarin, really struggle with a single dark trooper. Then when Luke arrived, the whole squad of dark troopers were useless ragdolls. Our character, in this story, is the equivalent of Luke Skywalker in The Mandalorian. After everything we have accomplished within the story, are you going to sit here and tell me that 3 low rank, standard soldiers and a battle droid are going to defeat the guy that defeated the galaxy's most powerful villain (among other things)? As I said, standard trash should be a cakewalk for my character. Whether they do that by adjusting enemy difficulty, character strength or companion effectiveness, makes little difference to me. Right now, one of the biggest things they have done is cap presence and that is why people are talking about it.

 

Your thread will backfire on you. There were already threads made about this topic, but you wanted one where the title is requesting the opposite of the others. It's just another suggestion that belongs in the suggestion forum, but was posted here to get more attention. You'll reply more in this topic than anybody else. There will be a couple people that side with your stance, but as we have witnessed in the already existing topics you duplicated, there are more people replying in favor of reverting the presence cap. You and the minority have to post more often to give the impression of support to keep things as they are. I've seen this exact thing happen on other subjects and it always backfires. At the end of the day, you have just brought more attention to a subject already being debated and reinforce the data that shows for every 3 people that side with your stance, there are 10-12 that oppose it. It's not about the number of replies for or against, it's about the number of individuals for or against.

Edited March 6, 2022 by BRKMSN