New Manaan "Story" Empire Version vs Republic Version ***ASSUME SPOILERS***

[merovejec]

I don't mind the story, but the trash mobs.....Gosh. I basically just get to 80 and leave for now, until I'm desperate enough to need the CQ points.

 

Heh i did same.

[JojoKasei]

I did a dark side Empire version tonight (proper dark doing the most evil of options because my character super dark - I usually do light or dark/neutral when I play Empire characters). Still wasn't impressed, however I sided with the Darth and killed the Colonel that time. Whilst that option was slightly better story-wise as the Darth is a tiny bit less annoying, it was still nowhere near as good as the republic version. And I agree with this:

 

Who even is Krovos? This is one of the things that bugs me about these updates. There is too much reliance producing stories external to supplement the actual game play. When they introduce a new character, I want all their info/reasons they are included in the story as part of the gameplay. They did this really well when they introduced Theron, Lana, Jakarro and C2-D4 in SoR.

 

There's a comment our character makes back when we had to do that really stupid speech for Lord Izar to the Empire: we talk to Krovos as if we've known her for years (if we have, I'd never know it). Krovos mentions someone called Zasha & her family and we can congratulate Krovos on her promotion -

- (not my video btw). I don't ever remember meeting her in game before on any of my 70+ alts.

 

And why is the underwater "floating walker" so much better on the republic side? There's even a little bonus quest to gather kolto and heal some little flying fish (and I now want one as a pet )

 

Krovos and Ranken are the imperial NPCs for the Kuat Drive Yards FP. So if you did the intor quest to those you technically know them. They aren't exactly memorable or important in any way, though.

[Sarova]

Well, if you don't do group contents, your loss <-- that's what I feel anyway.

Whilst I agree losing out on story by not grouping is a loss, the hell of grouping overrides this for me. I hate being forced to group for things, avoid most FPs and I have zero desire to do proper ops (I draw the line at the Eye or the other event ops). I don't see why they have to hide story content in FPs or Ops though. They know many people like/prefer to solo so why try to force us to group by hiding story behind it? If I have to group for anything, it will be the "hit and run" stuff like the world bosses for the dinner event, world bosses in general or Hammer Station (yes, I'm one of those). I can't remember when I did KDY but I must have as I have the achievements. Probably during the dark/light event but since it's forced space bar I don't pay much attention to what's actually being said by NPCs or even who the NPCs are. If Krovos had said Admiral Rankin I'd have known >.< (thought I generally failed to save her to annoy Lana).

. The only saving grace for IMP side was:

 

 

If you play a saboteur, you do get a cut scene at the end with Jonas. That made my day. I was starting to wonder if they'd forgotten the saboteur, but nope, there it was.

Ima suffer it on my Sith saboteur just for this.

 

I've been pairing my LS Smuggler with Arn since he was introduced, I'm a huge sucker for force-user/non force user romances (my SI/Theron romance is my all time favourite SWTOR romance). I like how it's a slow burn so far, I feel it fits Arn as a character, my Smuggler will just have to be a little more patient with him to open up, I look forward to more.

Again, I really like what they've done with Arn so far. I hope we're not disappointed like we all were with

Zenith being non-romanceable

 

I'm still really surprised that they have the balls to call Manaan "story" though. If they had said the story would be over several chapters released every month, we would probably be happy with that. They really should do a provisional roadmap for 2022.

 

Going off topic - Elom was just an annoying mess and buggy as hell

wasn't Malgus boasting in the last time he appeared that he'd broken his chains and no-one would be able to control him again? How in the hell were we able to capture him? He's the weakest super foe ever. Unless he wanted to be captured. I'm also still annoyed that both Jedi and Sith suddenly have the new mass subdue ability with no explanation. Where did that come from?

 

[Caelvin_Williams]

With regards to the imperial-side of the Manaan story, I thought the idea of a conflict between an imperial army officer and a Sith was interesting but the writing for the different choices was insufficient to say the least. And I have one major problem during this part of the story...

 

 

You have taken bridge of the Republic gunship and Darth Norok orders Major Anri to stop plans to destroy the guns. He states he wants to take the gunship to use against the Republic and orders her to supercharge the weapons. If you choose [supercharge the guns], she does only to then fight your way back to the other ship and leave the gunship behind?!?!? What the freaking hell? You abandon the gunship? Makes. No. Sense.

 

 

Team Bioware needed to spend a little more time thinking through their storylines....

[eabevella]

Whilst I agree losing out on story by not grouping is a loss, the hell of grouping overrides this for me. I hate being forced to group for things, avoid most FPs and I have zero desire to do proper ops (I draw the line at the Eye or the other event ops). I don't see why they have to hide story content in FPs or Ops though. They know many people like/prefer to solo so why try to force us to group by hiding story behind it? If I have to group for anything, it will be the "hit and run" stuff like the world bosses for the dinner event, world bosses in general or Hammer Station (yes, I'm one of those). I can't remember when I did KDY but I must have as I have the achievements. Probably during the dark/light event but since it's forced space bar I don't pay much attention to what's actually being said by NPCs or even who the NPCs are. If Krovos had said Admiral Rankin I'd have known >.< (thought I generally failed to save her to annoy Lana).

 

Ima suffer it on my Sith saboteur just for this.

 

Again, I really like what they've done with Arn so far. I hope we're not disappointed like we all were with

Zenith being non-romanceable

 

I'm still really surprised that they have the balls to call Manaan "story" though. If they had said the story would be over several chapters released every month, we would probably be happy with that. They really should do a provisional roadmap for 2022.

 

Going off topic - Elom was just an annoying mess and buggy as hell

wasn't Malgus boasting in the last time he appeared that he'd broken his chains and no-one would be able to control him again? How in the hell were we able to capture him? He's the weakest super foe ever. Unless he wanted to be captured. I'm also still annoyed that both Jedi and Sith suddenly have the new mass subdue ability with no explanation. Where did that come from?

 

Which is why I think it's unfair even though that's how the story writing tells me.

 

Krovo and Rankin gave me special impression because you can try to alienate them in the dialogue options from KDY by challenging Krovo "who's in charge here?" and Krovo would say "I trust her with my life" which is very unusual among Sith.

 

Also from the story line that leads to KDY where you can pick up on the fleet, Rankin is having problem with another Imperial officer who disagree with her tactics, so she summons Krovo, who simply walk in and Force choke that poor dude as a "warning" lol They have a great dynamic (I admit I ship them), it's good that the writers remember that bit but it's something that is easily missed to solo players.

 

It's like the stories from all those early operations. I didn't even realize there are stories behind them. I wish they give all FPs and at least the Dread Master OPs a solo story mode because I wouldn't try OPs if I haven't got invited in a great guild and I know many solo players play and stay in this game for the story. Makes no sense to keep them out.

[Sounders_Fan]

I prefer the empire version of the story.

 

while I can tolerate Anri; I despise the severed head on the robot body named arn. and was very disappointed when he said that his robot body was shielded from emp.

 

neither story was good, nor connected to the previous set ups at the end of onslaught. at least the empire story allowed me to address the colonel and weak Sith in an appropriate way.

[TziganeNZ]

<snip>

 

neither story was good, nor connected to the previous set ups at the end of onslaught. at least the empire story allowed me to address the colonel and weak Sith in an appropriate way.

This^^ . It's horribly disjointed and jarring. There was no continuity, and I'm afraid reading the crawling text before starting doesn't exactly set the scene properly (who doesn't spacebar/esc through it). There was no breadcrumb trail leading my character to Manaan, no "intel received from our agents that something is going down on Manaan, get there quick", and no sensible, flowing continuity from Manaan to the flashpoint at Elom. What is the link between Manaan and Elom??

 

The storyline for this episode (really can't call it an expansion) is so weak and poorly written, and just as poorly voice acted. It is so disappointing for a story-focused player.

[eabevella]

This^^ . It's horribly disjointed and jarring. There was no continuity, and I'm afraid reading the crawling text before starting doesn't exactly set the scene properly (who doesn't spacebar/esc through it). There was no breadcrumb trail leading my character to Manaan, no "intel received from our agents that something is going down on Manaan, get there quick", and no sensible, flowing continuity from Manaan to the flashpoint at Elom. What is the link between Manaan and Elom??

 

The storyline for this episode (really can't call it an expansion) is so weak and poorly written, and just as poorly voice acted. It is so disappointing for a story-focused player.

 

On the Pub side, Arn said he's tracking leads of some Jedi to Manaan (my brain is mush but I think he said he thought it's about Malgus and the stuff he's after), and got caught in the invasion. There's also a call back to the KOTOR game that fit in the story itself which is nice. He later said the lead is unrelated

(I wonder if that Jedi he mentioned is a certain someone from KOTOR who had a side story quest on Manaan)

but at least it's not so out of nowhere narrative-wise like on the Imp side.

 

For some reason I think the "acting" in the cut scenes is really weird, especially for the Manaan part. The character movement, their action flow, and the transition between cuts don't feel as natural as before, as if they were made by people who are not familiar with the emote and action CG library they have at hand. It probably also affected the VA performance/editing because I find Malgus' in-battle voice lines more passionate then in the cut scene.

[Sarova]

This^^ . It's horribly disjointed and jarring. There was no continuity, and I'm afraid reading the crawling text before starting doesn't exactly set the scene properly (who doesn't spacebar/esc through it). There was no breadcrumb trail leading my character to Manaan, no "intel received from our agents that something is going down on Manaan, get there quick", and no sensible, flowing continuity from Manaan to the flashpoint at Elom. What is the link between Manaan and Elom??

This is the one time where Lana could have been useful. Why was there not a meeting with the alliance teams & the Empire about the Manaan situation before (same Rep side come to think of it, even though that version was better)?

As for a link between Manaan & Elmo, I don’t think there’s supposed to be one. I thought the Malgus situation was supposed to be the story and Manaan something separate, but they told us Manaan was “new story” 🤨 Either way, it’s still disappointing for many of us who play for the story.

 

I will say that trying to get us to play a story in which a side will win because of farming techniques (Ossus) or Kolto (Manaan) is a bit weak, especially after showing us that you can basically make your entire fighting force out of metal (Skytroopers of Zakuul).

 

Side note: where is Malora? You’d think she’d have turned up again by now.

[casirabit]

This^^ . It's horribly disjointed and jarring. There was no continuity, and I'm afraid reading the crawling text before starting doesn't exactly set the scene properly (who doesn't spacebar/esc through it). There was no breadcrumb trail leading my character to Manaan, no "intel received from our agents that something is going down on Manaan, get there quick", and no sensible, flowing continuity from Manaan to the flashpoint at Elom. What is the link between Manaan and Elom??

 

The storyline for this episode (really can't call it an expansion) is so weak and poorly written, and just as poorly voice acted. It is so disappointing for a story-focused player.

 

There is an option when you are talking to Arn about why he is there and he explains he was there tracking down an old master when he got caught in the invasion and therefore requested help and that is why the commander shows up.

[Lunah]

I came back to game as I love story and was hoping to find out what Malgus was up to. I was disappointed on both sides with this being at most a prelude worthy amount of content. This is NOT enough to be called an expansion story wise. Also I hate the Jedi on the Pub side and feel like he isn't as good of a healer as the imp side companion. She at least is tolerable, the Jedi I just wanted to find his off switch and make him shut up (stupid whiny jedi). Then the last 4 minutes you get to see Malgus only to capture him with NO information about what he was up to. How is this considered worthy storyline of an expansion? We learn nothing at all and have only a side story on Manaan that should have been a prelude. And now to find out more I am guessing I will be sucked in to a membership again to get any info at all about Malgus. So very disappointed in this expansion.

[Nefla]

Well, there's still a war going on, and it's that or the same story for both sides again - I'll take the war and the different stories.

.

Why would the only option for the story be either brief and low level grunt work and an anticlimactic hike and fighting and capturing Malgus yet again OR "the same story for both sides" We could have had two separate versions of an actual good and relevant story.

[eabevella]

Why would the only option for the story be either brief and low level grunt work and an anticlimactic hike and fighting and capturing Malgus yet again OR "the same story for both sides" We could have had two separate versions of an actual good and relevant story.

 

They stopped trying a long time ago.

 

Many people don't like RotHC, but I really like how there are actual two stories with two different main plots going on that could have happened at the same time (minus the final boss fight). It feels like I'm seeing things from both the Republic and the Empire's POV and that's what makes playing toons on both side interesting.

[TziganeNZ]

On the Pub side, Arn said he's tracking leads of some Jedi to Manaan (my brain is mush but I think he said he thought it's about Malgus and the stuff he's after), and got caught in the invasion. There's also a call back to the KOTOR game that fit in the story itself which is nice. He later said the lead is unrelated

(I wonder if that Jedi he mentioned is a certain someone from KOTOR who had a side story quest on Manaan)

but at least it's not so out of nowhere narrative-wise like on the Imp side.

 

For some reason I think the "acting" in the cut scenes is really weird, especially for the Manaan part. The character movement, their action flow, and the transition between cuts don't feel as natural as before, as if they were made by people who are not familiar with the emote and action CG library they have at hand. It probably also affected the VA performance/editing because I find Malgus' in-battle voice lines more passionate then in the cut scene.

 

Yes, he says much later in the episode that he is tracking a Jedi master as part of the Task Force Nova round up. Too late in the episode. Also, I (and perhaps a lot of players) have never played KOTOR, so have no idea about any references to it. I didn't know who Aryn Leneer was, who Meetra Surik was, etc.

 

This is the one time where Lana could have been useful. Why was there not a meeting with the alliance teams & the Empire about the Manaan situation before (same Rep side come to think of it, even though that version was better)?

As for a link between Manaan & Elmo, I don’t think there’s supposed to be one. I thought the Malgus situation was supposed to be the story and Manaan something separate, but they told us Manaan was “new story” 🤨 Either way, it’s still disappointing for many of us who play for the story.

 

Absolutely correct - this is precisely when Lana would have been useful.

 

This would have been better, from a continuity perspective:

Episode starts with Arn on Manaan to find the Empire etc, as it does now.

End cut scene with your character getting a further alert to go and talk to your advisors on Odessen (or the fleet, or wherever).

Cut scene has player character being briefed on distress call made by Arn by Lana or Hylo or whoever, jumps in ship and races to the rescue.

This puts the player character in the right place at the right time with some context as to why they are there.

 

Play through Manaan (yes, it's not ideal, and yes, I'd really like to know the backstory behind the Selkath and Admiral's animosity, but whatever).

 

End of Manaan:

Player character is dropped back at Odessen and has an alert to go to the Operations room for a briefing with Gnost-Dural and co. Oh noes!! They've lost touch with the team at Elom! Quick, go to the rescue, but wait - Malgus may be there!!

 

Again, this sets the scene for the player, draws out the episode a bit more, gives a bit more lore and ups the anticipation by a LOT. Playing the flashpoint then becomes a little more intense and enjoyable (until the buggy end).

 

This is a breadcrumb trail and continuity. This would have made a substantial difference to the episode.

 

As for the Imperial side, that is SO disjointed, I really wouldn't know where to start to get it working right. It is truly abominable writing/screen writing/voice acting. I found that on both sides, the story just did not engage me, and that's a marker of poor writing.

Edited February 22, 2022 by TziganeNZ

[Sarova]

Absolutely correct - this is precisely when Lana would have been useful.

 

This would have been better, from a continuity perspective:

Episode starts with Arn on Manaan to find the Empire etc, as it does now.

End cut scene with your character getting a further alert to go and talk to your advisors on Odessen (or the fleet, or wherever).

Cut scene has player character being briefed on distress call made by Arn by Lana or Hylo or whoever, jumps in ship and races to the rescue.

This puts the player character in the right place at the right time with some context as to why they are there.

 

Play through Manaan (yes, it's not ideal, and yes, I'd really like to know the backstory behind the Selkath and Admiral's animosity, but whatever).

 

End of Manaan:

Player character is dropped back at Odessen and has an alert to go to the Operations room for a briefing with Gnost-Dural and co. Oh noes!! They've lost touch with the team at Elom! Quick, go to the rescue, but wait - Malgus may be there!!

 

Again, this sets the scene for the player, draws out the episode a bit more, gives a bit more lore and ups the anticipation by a LOT. Playing the flashpoint then becomes a little more intense and enjoyable (until the buggy end).

 

This is a breadcrumb trail and continuity. This would have made a substantial difference to the episode.

 

As for the Imperial side, that is SO disjointed, I really wouldn't know where to start to get it working right. It is truly abominable writing/screen writing/voice acting. I found that on both sides, the story just did not engage me, and that's a marker of poor writing.

Exactly!!

BW really should start asking players for story ideas. This is one of the few times when fan writers/story tellers would be happy to input for free (or our just names in the credits) so we end up with better game story. I suggested somewhere else that the story should tested in closed beta with non-disclosure (to protect against spoilers) so they know if the story will be well received or not.

[JojoKasei]

They stopped trying a long time ago.

 

Many people don't like RotHC, but I really like how there are actual two stories with two different main plots going on that could have happened at the same time (minus the final boss fight). It feels like I'm seeing things from both the Republic and the Empire's POV and that's what makes playing toons on both side interesting.

 

Think the same. Makeb wasn't the best storyline, but still superior to making 2 lines that are mutually exclusive. It's nt perspective anymore, or continuity, it's every character living in their own quantum universe.

[Sarova]

Think the same. Makeb wasn't the best storyline, but still superior to making 2 lines that are mutually exclusive. It's nt perspective anymore, or continuity, it's every character living in their own quantum universe.

Mutually exclusive but made sense from the opposing factions perspective (unlike Ossus which did not). After most of the class stories, Makeb is my favourite from a story perspective (the gameplay if you're not a stealther not so much - all those fast respawning mobs and elite droids!).

 

I've now done Manaan a couple more times Empire side on my saboteur Warrior and my super dark Assassin. I'm still not a fan and not just because Anri is useless as a healer/tank/dps (all the companions that are forced on us at level 25 and can't have their influence increased are pretty useless) but because Major Anri, Colonel Korrd and Darth Norok are all really badly voice acted/scripted in my opinion. I can't take any of them seriously & after doing it once, just space bar through their cut scenes however

at least it's possible to kill Norok and Korrd, though I'm of the opinion why bother introducing them just to give them a kill option?

 

[JojoKasei]

Mutually exclusive but made sense from the opposing factions perspective (unlike Ossus which did not). After most of the class stories, Makeb is my favourite from a story perspective (the gameplay if you're not a stealther not so much - all those fast respawning mobs and elite droids!).

 

 

I've done everything up to 7.0 on both sides mutliple times (except for KotFE and KotET, those fit into the galaxy of the game like the cube into the round hole, skipped it on every char after my main) and found the stories to be solid, yes. But I prefer having a storyline where not only are both sides possible but the narrative is developed in a way where it is noticable that both storylines are in fact happening more or less simultaneously. Like they did with Makeb. SoR was easy in that regard as both sides worked together largely, which is also acceptable. But I dislike the "either Rep or Imp happened" routine that's prevalent nowadays. It's the easy route and boring. Now, I don't dislike the new stories (haven't played 7.0, inventory disease), but I find them less immersive because they are so obviously mutually exclusive.