Cedia Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 they need to remember that 90 percent of the people here who play this game play it casually for the story and have been rinsing and repeating for years , the end game gear grind is not every bodies cup of tea and the crowd is much different then typical wow or ff14 folks . the amount of currencies and the lack of rewards towards upgrading gear is not going to keep people subbed what id like to see on another note is not locking the new character combat styles to subs only . im not sure how that works if you go into it preferred . the story content is what it is . some of us subbed for the expansion days prior to the release and then the subsequent delay . so there is that thought as well . they know they numbers of people who subbed just prior to it and to not some how hook people up would be a shame . but nobody owes anybody anything in the end . im just saying it'd be a grace of good measure on their behalf Yes, I think it's just the suits upstairs who are telling them to add the grind. I guess they need the "metrics" or whatever to justify spending money on this game. And I wouldn't worry too much, because I'm sure that there will be a second combat style unlock token on the CM at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzastinBiberi Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 It's gonna be the worst. We went from having two sets of gear, PVP and PVE, to one set for everything and now on PTS you gotta grind for 3 sets of gear and the grind is terrible from what I saw. I thought Ben Irving The MMO Killa' was gonna kill this game with his stupidity and he almost did it, but it seems his apprentice Darth Kenny is gonna succeed where his master failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAtkinson Posted January 2, 2022 Author Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Yes, I think it's just the suits upstairs who are telling them to add the grind. I guess they need the "metrics" or whatever to justify spending money on this game. And I wouldn't worry too much, because I'm sure that there will be a second combat style unlock token on the CM at some point. They have to keep you interested in playing the game. Since we aren't getting enough actual content to keep us busy, they have to find other means to help with that . That's why we have gearing... So far Ossus has been the worst gearing ever in my opinion and can't wait to see live if the current new one comes any close . Might not be the worst due to legacy bound gear, fingers crossed. Edited January 2, 2022 by DavidAtkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 what id like to see on another note is not locking the new character combat styles to subs only . im not sure how that works if you go into it preferred . They have said when you drop down to preferred, your characters will be which ever combat style was active when you last logged off. They have to keep you interested in playing the game. Since we aren't getting enough actual content to keep us busy, they have to find other means to help with that . That's why we have gearing... It boggles my mind that something so boring could keep anyone interested in playing and paying. I'm much more inclined to quit doing both when a tedious gear grind is the only thing left to do. I might grind for a cosmetic, but not a piece of gear that won't get me better stats than the 306 I have. Luckily I still have lots of alts with lots of story to finish. I doubt I'll see a full 320 set before they change the gearing method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 if there is a massive gear grind, that will make people quit MORE, not play more lol. you think people keep wanting a hamster wheel to grind on? please stop with this... games are for fun and to chill out. they aren't for making it a job :/ I have my job irl for a challenge. I have my hobbies for a challenge. I want to be whisped away to another universe when i play games. enough of this "challenge" crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliushorst Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) They have to keep you interested in playing the game. Since we aren't getting enough actual content to keep us busy, they have to find other means to help with that . That's why we have gearing... The result will be the opposite - I'm not going to bother. Just like I don't bother with gold aguments and I didn't bother with 258 mainhands. There will be much less for me to do in the game after the "expansion" drops - renown at least kept some illusion of progress after reaching max level. So far Ossus has been the worst gearing ever in my opinion and can't wait to see live if the current new one comes any close . Might not be the worst due to legacy bound gear, fingers crossed. Ossus was bad but this will be worse. When Ossus dropped you already had good, moddable gear with set bonus. Now - no such luck. What we have will be turned into garbage and to get something good you need to raid. Only one piece (mainhand) was locked behind a raid. Obtaining the gear was long and boring but easy. Now obtaining decent gear will be long, boring and difficult. if there is a massive gear grind, that will make people quit MORE, not play more lol. you think people keep wanting a hamster wheel to grind on? please stop with this... games are for fun and to chill out. they aren't for making it a job :/ Seeing what they focus on (raids for gear, higher difficulty chapters for season) I guess they looked at their metrics and realized hardly anybody plays this content. Look at Steam achievements: ones for VM and MM chapters are at the very bottom of the list with hardly anybody having obtained them. We don't know how popular Duxun was but you hardly ever see groups forming for it in the fleet chat and when they do recruiting enough people takes rather long. So instead of giving us what we really play (that is, fast and easy content with decent rewards) they try to force us to engage with their failed experiments. I have my job irl for a challenge. I have my hobbies for a challenge. I want to be whisped away to another universe when i play games. enough of this "challenge" crap AMEN! Stop catering to "hardcore gamers", this audience barely exists outside of memes. Edited January 2, 2022 by juliushorst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatTax Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 if there is a massive gear grind, that will make people quit MORE, not play more lol. you think people keep wanting a hamster wheel to grind on? please stop with this... games are for fun and to chill out. they aren't for making it a job :/ I have my job irl for a challenge. I have my hobbies for a challenge. I want to be whisped away to another universe when i play games. enough of this "challenge" crap There's another, darker explanation for what may be going on. The excessive grind creates a cash-shaped hole in the design. They may be monetizing this grind, and perhaps we're supposed to pay it into tolerability, on top of our subscriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 There's another, darker explanation for what may be going on. The excessive grind creates a cash-shaped hole in the design. They may be monetizing this grind, and perhaps we're supposed to pay it into tolerability, on top of our subscriptions. A self declared SJW taking the "evil greedy corporation" stance... Color me shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatTax Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) A self declared SJW taking the "evil greedy corporation" stance... Color me shocked. Whatever my interests are, one would hope you, independently, would have a problem with pay-to-win mechanics stacked on top of your subscription. For $155.88, year over year, we deserve to not to have our quality of life sabotaged. Edited January 3, 2022 by FlatTax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliushorst Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 There's another, darker explanation for what may be going on. The excessive grind creates a cash-shaped hole in the design. They may be monetizing this grind, and perhaps we're supposed to pay it into tolerability, on top of our subscriptions. Mobile games employ such strategy but then they also embrace their casual audience. This expansion alienates casual players. Really I have no idea who they had in mind when designing this catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Yes, I think it's just the suits upstairs who are telling them to add the grind. I guess they need the "metrics" or whatever to justify spending money on this game. Perhaps, but let's not act like it's all "mommy EA's fault" because it needlessly blinds and covers up Bioware's own numerous design mistakes in the past few years. Really, EA gave Bioware tons of cash, time and freedom to develop Andromeda and Anthem and we all saw what the results were... Bioware needs to be accountable too, not endlessly excused or they will never get back to their old prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTricicolo Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) Being here from the start, I've pretty much rolled with the punches when it came to content release. The last "real" expansion, in my opinion, was ROTHC and even that was watered down. It started going down hill from there. These past years of slow content drip and never ending gear grind has brought me to the point where I'm beyond tired of doing the same thing all over again for the umpteenth time. Even with the features announced, I have no enthusiasm anymore. So much so that I will be drastically reducing the amount of characters I have to probably a main and an alt. I was hoping for a revival of sorts for the 10 year anniversary but I don't think it's going to happen. I feel like I'm just biding time until the next generation of a Star Wars game gets released. Edited January 3, 2022 by TonyTricicolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menaur Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Well, love swtor and play it since Beta 2011. Nevertheless, a few months after release there was a massive exodus. At some point the player pool was so small that big storycontent, in several languages translated was no more economically possible. since this time the game fights for survive. 7.0 is another attempt to give the game more success again. We will see if more players arrive and stay than leave it. - I stay - play for 3 weeks on the PTS, I'm mainly busy with leveling and actually look very relaxed to the release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pricia Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Well, love swtor and play it since Beta 2011. Nevertheless, a few months after release there was a massive exodus. At some point the player pool was so small that big storycontent, in several languages translated was no more economically possible. since this time the game fights for survive. 7.0 is another attempt to give the game more success again. We will see if more players arrive and stay than leave it. - I stay - play for 3 weeks on the PTS, I'm mainly busy with leveling and actually look very relaxed to the release. "the game fights to survive". lol. The game has made $1 billion since its release. Honestly I just don't understand how they can believe that LotS will give them more players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliushorst Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 7.0 is another attempt to give the game more success again. We will see if more players arrive and stay than leave it. - I stay - play for 3 weeks on the PTS, I'm mainly busy with leveling and actually look very relaxed to the release. How? They show us what they plan. Most players dislike it (gearing - awful, changes to missions - awful, changes to conquest - awful, changes to level synch and leveling - awful, removing abilities - awful, removing renown without any replacement meter to go up post max level - awful). They ask for feedback. We tell them how we feel about it. They ignore it and plan to follow their "vision". How is this a way to attract or keep players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrah Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Most often, we must infer how someone else feels about us... If every time I greet someone they give me a smile and good chat - I think it's safe for me to assume they like me and enjoy my company (at least in small doses). Conversely, If every time I greet someone they give me a scowl and avoid conversation - then I think it's safe for me to assume this person doesn't like something about me. Maybe I offended them, maybe they don't like my nose... who knows? (unless they decide to make it explicitly clear) With 7.0 Bioware may not have come out and said exactly "we don't care about solo players... raid or leave!", but that's definitely the message they are sending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menaur Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 https://mmo-population.com/top/2021 SWTOR is ranked on place18 with about 350,000 aktive players. WoW Classic is on 5 and "Very Oldscool" (Raid or die). I understand that BW try some new/old things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliushorst Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 https://mmo-population.com/top/2021 SWTOR is ranked on place18 with about 350,000 aktive players. WoW Classic is on 5 and "Very Oldscool" (Raid or die). I understand that BW try some new/old things. People are on a nostalgia trip, reliving their younger years in WoW Classic. No such audience in SWTOR, it was never raid-centric so no nostalgia baiting and there isn't enough content for this kind of audience in the game. This strategy is bound to fail - they take too much from existing playerbase and don't have enough to attract and maintain new audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pricia Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Also right now on PTS the leveling experience sucks because the way abilities are spread out. Nobody wants to be forced to use their default attack all the time at level 22. If they want new players to actually stick around and not quit because combat is boring, they're going to have to do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 "the game fights to survive". lol. The game has made $1 billion since its release. Honestly I just don't understand how they can believe that LotS will give them more players though. That was total revenue a couple of years ago, not profit. Given how expensive the game was to produce and the ongoing costs to develop and maintain the game, I doubt the yearly profit was terribly exciting to EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogueiraA Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 "That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0 One can hope they will improve things as a result. No, they never planned to release 7.0 in 2021, they waited for people to sub then they announced the new date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihvod Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Hi, I hope the developers see this thread. I agree with everything above, I don't want to grind, I consider that grinding kills mmos. After 8 hours of work, if I chose to play this game, I want it to be fun, I don't want to start working again to grind gear. The gearing system in 6.0 was okay, everyone did whatever they wanted to do and it worked in my opinion. The only good thing in 7.0 is the advanced class flexibility. Please don't add the gearing system from 7.0 as it is because right now it is the worst thing that could happen to this game. If you want to kill it, go ahead, I will unsubscribe and never play again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAtkinson Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) How? They show us what they plan. Most players dislike it (gearing - awful, changes to missions - awful, changes to conquest - awful, changes to level synch and leveling - awful, removing abilities - awful, removing renown without any replacement meter to go up post max level - awful). They ask for feedback. We tell them how we feel about it. They ignore it and plan to follow their "vision". How is this a way to attract or keep players? This was always an enigma . How they are asking for feedback , but still seem to be fixed on their ways. The core of 7.0 was intended to be what was seen on PTS. The only changes they can probably make is tweak some numberrs, like mission X will have a 50% more chance of dropping gear Y , and so on... Make it easier and less grindy in general. Also, let's not forget about the bugs. Those need some fixing. From what Ive seen so far, I like the char creation improvements, and the class flexibility . These 2 look nice to me. Edited January 7, 2022 by DavidAtkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendaric Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 From what Ive seen so far, I like the char creation improvements, and the class flexibility . These 2 look nice to me. In the end the question is: Will those few good things outweigh the negative aspects of 7.0 for current players and will they be enough to attract new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TziganeNZ Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 In the end the question is: Will those few good things outweigh the negative aspects of 7.0 for current players and will they be enough to attract new ones? Not for me. They are just cosmetic - all fluff and no substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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