SWTOR 7.0 is the worst expansion to date ?

[DavidAtkinson]

Man, so far I read very little about 7.0 because I usually like to surprised and I don't have time to participate on the PTS to give feedback and always some other PVP-ers or end gamers know what feedback to give.

 

I've started reading seriously about what's coming in these past few days after hearing and reading some hints that it's a bit of a .... massive meh in terms of changes ?

Now I am totally shocked , man. I am here since 3.0 and I don't think I remember reading so much negativity about an expansion . I mean the gearing looks horrible, the class changes for those of us that play PVP at the highest level looks terrible again . No one seems to like conquest, no one seems to like the ability trees .

 

I scratch my had very hard now and I remember some serious negativity prior to 5.0 when they released that command system. Everyone hated that and we all know how that turned out to be and the massive exodus that followed...

 

So I ask again. No one seems to like anything about 7.0 . So what now ? What was the point of all the feedback ?

 

I can't comment on the story because I am sure that it's going to be okay and a lot of players will devour it in days , but what happens after that ? We are going to be left with all that messy stuff ? :eek:

[kage_goomba]

"That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0

 

One can hope they will improve things as a result.

[WaywardOne]

From my perspective, Bioware has drawn a crude sketch on a wall of a road ahead. And now they're running full speed into that wall.

[WaywardOne]

"That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0

 

One can hope they will improve things as a result.

 

Was it feedback or was it that they just hadn't finished? The current PTS has lots of little bugs and at least a few screens still tagged with WIP. It wasn't ready.

[DavidAtkinson]

"That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0

 

One can hope they will improve things as a result.

 

I mean if they were listening to feedback we shouldn't have ended up in this situation in the first place. They seem to give the impression that they listen to feedback , but they are set on their ways ....

 

And 7.0 was received very negatively from the first time it got to PTS from what I've seen. I just hope they can fix and improve things until feb.

[kage_goomba]

Was it feedback or was it that they just hadn't finished? The current PTS has lots of little bugs and at least a few screens still tagged with WIP. It wasn't ready.

 

If i had to guess based on my professional experience.

They caved to feedback.

Timing was too damn close to launch.

 

Too many games launch things riddled with bugs in spite of it.

Just look at FFXIV

[Pricia]

"That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0

 

One can hope they will improve things as a result.

 

I'm quite sure the actual feedback on the DESIGN of 7.0 was not the cause of the delay - nothing in the design changed between the two PTS versions, except to actually decrease the number of upgrade parts you get from weeklies...

 

The delay was due to the technical state of the update - extremely buggy and clearly a lot of things hadn't even been tested.

 

So I really wouldn't get my hopes up that any of their "brilliant" redesign ideas won't make it to 7.0.

 

I can't really say it's the worst though, as I only came back last year, but there's no way I would have stuck to it that long if 6.0 was designed like 7.0, I can tell you that. I HATE the changes, frankly the only two positives things I can think about are - more story (and even then... it's a pathetic amount. They say that more is coming and I'll hold them to that), and being able to have my force users switch to the spec that reflects their alignment. Oh, and the mounts for Galactic Season 2 are cute. That's all I have.

 

The gear leveling design - I hate it. The gear itself - I hate it. The way Galactic Season is going to work - I hate it (not enough solo options, and one of them will be impossible in 7.0 gear - vet chapters - will have to see if someone can do the math to see if it's even doable to finish it with only 6/10 weeklies and dailies). The change to weeklies/dailies reset - I hate it. The total lack of gear drops for solo players - I hate it. The Conquest changes - I hate it (double goal, loss of renown CQ goals). The lack of meaningful rewards for most story missions and Conquest after 4 characters - I hate it. The new UI - I hate it. Being forced to do the "content of the week" - I hate it.

 

I think that sums it up.

[SithKoriandr]

I'm not the pro SWTOR player many here are, but I would think all those WIP bits would be the reason for the delay. I may not be the pro SWTOR or even pro gamer, but I can say, I never saw so many WIP for an expansion that was just about to be released.

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

I still have absolutely no idea what's gonna actually change. Like you, I haven't got time to sit on PTS finding out, you'd think they'd TELL US a little more. I've read every sticky post on these forums and I still don't see specific details on anything thats changing besides combat styles. I've heard gearing is changing, but have yet to see or be told exactly how or in what ways.

 

I only ever play the story, and use the same legacy bound set of gear (that I bought 75% of on the GTN) on every lvl75 toon. And when levelling new ones, I use gear sets I've got slotted in legacy bound stuff saved in my cargo hold for every 4 level interval. Thats my "gearing process" lol. I'm never actually gearing anymore now that I can save it all in the legacy hold for other toons. And I thank god for it.. Cos I hated doing that on every new character

Edited December 26, 2021 by uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Pricia]

I still have absolutely no idea what's gonna actually change. Like you, I haven't got time to sit on PTS finding out, you'd think they'd TELL US a little more. I've read every sticky post on these forums and I still don't see specific details on anything thats changing besides combat styles. I've heard gearing is changing, but have yet to see or be told exactly how or in what ways.

 

I only ever play the story, and use the same legacy bound set of gear (that I bought 75% of on the GTN) on every lvl75 toon. And when levelling new ones, I use gear sets I've got slotted in legacy bound stuff saved in my cargo hold for every 4 level interval. Thats my "gearing process" lol. I'm never actually gearing anymore now that I can save it all in the legacy hold for other toons. And I thank god for it.. Cos I hated doing that on every new character

 

When you have 34 characters and do Conquest on every character it's a real PITA to waste 5 minutes switching gears every time though. But yeah, I'm going to have to do it...

 

The changes were mentioned in

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9975594#edit9975594

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20211102

 

They give the main idea of the changes. Mainly you'll have to do some specific missions to be able to upgrade your gear at all (basically NO upgrades whatsoever in story missions, and so far story flashpoints drop veteran flashpoints gear upgrades).

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

When you have 34 characters and do Conquest on every character it's a real PITA to waste 5 minutes switching gears every time though. But yeah, I'm going to have to do it...

 

The changes were mentioned in

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9975594#edit9975594

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20211102

 

They give the main idea of the changes. Mainly you'll have to do some specific missions to be able to upgrade your gear at all (basically NO upgrades whatsoever in story missions, and so far story flashpoints drop veteran flashpoints gear upgrades).

 

Yeah, I've read those before, I guess I'm just not getting it haha. but then, I've never known how to gear up, nor have I ever actually needed to since I only do story. I just got 306 gear recently cos I managed to buy most of it on GTN. I have no clue where my gear is "supposed" to come from other than that. Before I bought the gear I was always hearing "get gear in FP's or renown levels etc" but they never dropped literally anything useful for me. Always gear that was the same or lower level than my current stuff already. But I was only doing story FPs and such, because thats what I play, story. I never go and do a FP if the story isnt pointing me at it lol

 

So I'm guessing when 7.0 drops, I'll still not understand the new system, and end up having to buy serviceable gear again. The main thing I've even noticed about gearing since I started in 2015 was the change to legacy bound mods and such. Which I saw as an absolute godsend as someone who could barely gear one toon never mind 20. I just wish it was retroactive to old mods and stuff..

Edited December 26, 2021 by uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[TrixxieTriss]

"That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0

 

One can hope they will improve things as a result.

 

Our negative feedback to changes had very little to do with the delay.

 

If you jump on the PTS you can categorically see they didn’t have half the stuff even close to being finished. There are still so many bugs and systems that don’t sync up that if they’d released it they would have lost many new and old players because of how broken it would have been. I wouldn’t even consider some parts to be beta worthy yet.

 

I would temper your expectations with this delay. I don’t think BioWare are doing any major changes based on our negative feedback to unwanted changes. All BioWare are doing is trying to get the stuff currently on the PTS to work better than it does. Nothing more.

 

Suggesting they are making any course corrections based on our feedback is false hope and you’re just setting yourself and others up to being disappointed.

Edited December 26, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

If i had to guess based on my professional experience.

They caved to feedback.

Timing was too damn close to launch.

 

Too many games launch things riddled with bugs in spite of it.

Just look at FFXIV

 

Not with the amount of WiP and bugs that are currently on the PTS. I don’t even consider some the stuff on the PTS to be beta worth, let alone launch ready.

[Pricia]

Yeah, I've read those before, I guess I'm just not getting it haha. but then, I've never known how to gear up, nor have I ever actually needed to since I only do story. I just got 306 gear recently cos I managed to buy most of it on GTN. I have no clue where my gear is "supposed" to come from other than that. Before I bought the gear I was always hearing "get gear in FP's or renown levels etc" but they never dropped literally anything useful for me. Always gear that was the same or lower level than my current stuff already. But I was only doing story FPs and such, because thats what I play, story. I never go and do a FP if the story isnt pointing me at it lol

 

So I'm guessing when 7.0 drops, I'll still not understand the new system, and end up having to buy serviceable gear again. The main thing I've even noticed about gearing since I started in 2015 was the change to legacy bound mods and such. Which I saw as an absolute godsend as someone who could barely gear one toon never mind 20. I just wish it was retroactive to old mods and stuff..

 

Well, in 6.0, you get drops from getting renown levels, doing flashpoints (even story), some weeklies/dailies (Onderon/Mek-Sha), doing chapters, and conquest boxes. I mean... As long as you're level 75 you should have got some upgrades from doing basically anything. It's a bit odd that you never did.

 

Also dailies and weeklies don't reset, so you can take your time with them.

 

Anyway, in 7.0, there are three gear trees (solo, group, ops). Unless you do veteran flashpoints and ops you will never get any gear upgrade. You'll need 12 to 20 upgrade part for every piece you want to upgrade, and that's for level 1... it gets higher from there. In comparison, the boss I killed in a story flashpoint gave me 3 group parts (which don't even work to upgrade solo gear - in a story flashpoint. Makes total sense). And conquest gives you the other currency you need to upgrade your gear (but there's a 999 weekly cap).

 

As a solo player, you won't get drops at all, just parts, and you'll have to run weeklies and dailies for those - and they will now reset daily/weekly. Story missions will give you no parts at all (I'm guessing the 7.0 story will give you basic 318 gear but that's it - and the stats are worse than 306 gear).

 

And gear won't be modable so you won't be able to buy anything off the GTN (only the highest level gear will be modable, and we don't know how yet - there's no crew skill update so no way to craft higher level mods).

 

So yeah... It's really bad.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Pricia

[Juriel]

I agree. For me the big let down of 7.0 is the gearing system.

I loved SWTOR let you get the best gear going solo or group or pvp, whatever you like. This idea of making group content more (and exclusive) rewarding is stupid.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Juriel

[Ramalina]

I mean in terms of loss of existing players I'd guess that 1.0, 3.0, or 4.0 would be worse than 7.0 will likely be. They didn't do well in terms of having an endgame to retain endgame players for any of those expansions. I mean, they also didn't for 5.0 or 6.0, but by then they had already shed a lot of the players sensitive to that.

 

 

The thing that's most unusual for 7.0 is that it's the first expansion where there seems to be a conscious decision to sacrifice previous QoL improvements in service of other goals. For example: ability bloat, GTN inflation, Conquest spamming, etc. In a past expansion you might see that sort of trying to fix a problem, but it would be targeted in a way that didn't walk back other forms of QoL.

[Dylinrae]

I've just checked, and what the f, really?! These changes are terrible!

It feels like that Bioware is doing the same to SWTOR that Blizzard is doing to World of Warcraft. Don't follow that path, it will end badly.

[Toraak]

"That Feedback" - resulted in a delay of the launch of 7.0

 

One can hope they will improve things as a result.

 

No that feedback didn't cause the delay. The delay was caused by Key systems they were putting in with 7.0 simply not being ready for release.

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

Well, in 6.0, you get drops from getting renown levels, doing flashpoints (even story), some weeklies/dailies (Onderon/Mek-Sha), doing chapters, and conquest boxes. I mean... As long as you're level 75 you should have got some upgrades from doing basically anything. It's a bit odd that you never did.

 

Also dailies and weeklies don't reset, so you can take your time with them.

 

Anyway, in 7.0, there are three gear trees (solo, group, ops). Unless you do veteran flashpoints and ops you will never get any gear upgrade. You'll need 12 to 20 upgrade part for every piece you want to upgrade, and that's for level 1... it gets higher from there. In comparison, the boss I killed in a story flashpoint gave me 3 group parts (which don't even work to upgrade solo gear - in a story flashpoint. Makes total sense). And conquest gives you the other currency you need to upgrade your gear (but there's a 999 weekly cap).

 

As a solo player, you won't get drops at all, just parts, and you'll have to run weeklies and dailies for those - and they will now reset daily/weekly. Story missions will give you no parts at all (I'm guessing the 7.0 story will give you basic 318 gear but that's it - and the stats are worse than 306 gear).

 

And gear won't be modable so you won't be able to buy anything off the GTN (only the highest level gear will be modable, and we don't know how yet - there's no crew skill update so no way to craft higher level mods).

 

So yeah... It's really bad.

 

The best I've ever gotten in upgrades from current content is when I was 278 I'd sometimes get a 280 drop or something like that, but 99% of the time, it's stats were completely wrong for my build and I didn't want to use it. I like gear with mod slots to change out, and I was never ever ever getting any of that. Just gear with set stats that would have alacrity when I wanted accuracy etc etc. so I always just sold them.

 

Otherwise, that new system does sound like total crap. FAR too complex, I'll not be bothered with it. The game is dirt easy to do the story on anyways, I'm sure my 306 set will suffice for the new content. then I'll just quit till the next update lol. I don't need gear anyhow

[DavidAtkinson]

Our negative feedback to changes had very little to do with the delay.

 

If you jump on the PTS you can categorically see they didn’t have half the stuff even close to being finished. There are still so many bugs and systems that don’t sync up that if they’d released it they would have lost many new and old players because of how broken it would have been. I wouldn’t even consider some parts to be beta worthy yet.

 

I would temper your expectations with this delay. I don’t think BioWare are doing any major changes based on our negative feedback to unwanted changes. All BioWare are doing is trying to get the stuff currently on the PTS to work better than it does. Nothing more.

 

Suggesting they are making any course corrections based on our feedback is false hope and you’re just setting yourself and others up to being disappointed.

 

I think they will make changes, but the core of the game and how things will work is already set in stone . We can only hope they will make thing " easier" by increasing some drops here and there that helps gear up faster.

 

6.0 for me was the best gearing system this game had and I can't understand why would they scrap it and make something that is so hated by the players . I can't even imagine not being able to min max my stats, especially for ranked PVP .

[ExarSun]

"Expansion" is so strong of a word for the debacle that 7.0 is. Update is more like it. Other than that I completely agree of what has been said in this topic so far.

[Menaur]

It feels more like a console game now. Everything looks cheap and meaningless, as if you had taken all extras out of a modern car.

[LeMage]

I'd love to think the delay is due to the feedback from folks on PTS.

Ten years of game update/expansion/tweaking unbroken things history would have me believe else.

I can't say 7.0 is the WORST b/c it isn't here yet, BUT from reading here and being on PTS I think it could be the candidate for worst once it arrives.

[Pricia]

"Expansion" is so strong of a word for the debacle that 7.0 is. Update is more like it. Other than that I completely agree of what has been said in this topic so far.

 

You mean downgrade, right?

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

"Expansion" is so strong of a word for the debacle that 7.0 is. Update is more like it. Other than that I completely agree of what has been said in this topic so far.

 

It is weird what gets called an expansion now... Like, think how long of a slog KOTFE was. And KOTET only slightly less so, they were HUGE in terms of story addition. Even though I hated the stories, they were undeniably long and deep.

 

Then look at Onslaught.. You can literally have the whole thing done in an hour and a half. Forged Alliances takes longer! The LEADUP to SoR... And Onslaught's meant to be a main expansion? It's barely bigger than Jedi Under Siege. Which was only an update right..

Edited December 27, 2021 by uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu