Going forward, should SWTOR drop voice acted PlayerChars?

[SaerethDL]

Yes, this. Removing voice acting would only be a detriment for the game.

 

Thats subjective, I loved the text driven parts.. it was a call back to kotor, and kotor II, you know the game this game is based on. I'd love to see more of it.

[Stradlin]

Yes but everyone of your posts says exactly the same thing. You add nothing new whatsoever. If you just straight up copied your first post and pasted in for each of the others, you couldn't even tell the difference. It's as if you think if you say something often enough that will make it true.

 

I did some research on voiceover payments which you clearly didn't. The highest paid VA was paid $400,000 for a 30 minute episode of the Simpsons for voicing several characters including a main one. No expansion includes anywhere near that much VA. A 30 second commercial pays about $1,000 for a nationally broadcast commercial

 

It is difficult and pointless to have this side of conversation when neither of us knows how much the total cost of PCVAs is. Neither of us knows how much EA has earmarked for "development of swtor". Additionally, "cost" isn't just dollars like previously discussed. Everybody can look at the signs (snail phase story droplets) and make their own conclusions though.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Stradlin

[DWho]

It is difficult and pointless to have this side of conversation when neither of us knows how much the total cost of PCVAs is. Neither of us knows how much EA has earmarked for "development of swtor". Additionally, "cost" isn't just dollars like previously discussed. Everybody can look at the signs (snail phase story droplets) and make their own conclusions though.

 

 

an entry-level voice actor earns about $18,390 per year

the average voice actor earns about $31,400 per year

an experienced voice actor earns about $90,000 per year

 

Here's the link too: https://www.avosjourney.com/blog/how-much-do-voice-actors-make-online

[SaerethDL]

Not sure how many action movies you have watched with a mute protagonist whose dialogue is solely conveyed through subtitles. None springs to mind. Viva La Dirt League have made a spoof on the silent protagonist in games to show how silly this looks in action (not sure if I'm allowed to link youtube-videos here).

 

Why would people leave? A lot of people play solely for the story and, as many in this thread have said, the VA is important to the immersion for them (me included). I'm a founder, have played old content multiple times. New story content is one of the reasons I stay subscribed and still support them. But I'd stop subscribing if they cut the VA, because they'd take away a big part of why I enjoy this game.

 

again have you never watched anime? or a movie with subtitles? Yes they may speak some foreign language you don't understand, so you read the subtitles and it still gives you the same effect. You can watch the scenes, and also read the subtitles at the same time, who would have thought? There is nothing you have shown me that makes voice acting mutually exclusive to action scenes, fighting, expression, etc. It will all still work even if the character is mute. Again artificial voice acting is getting pretty good now days.

[SaerethDL]

an entry-level voice actor earns about $18,390 per year

the average voice actor earns about $31,400 per year

an experienced voice actor earns about $90,000 per year

 

Here's the link too: https://www.avosjourney.com/blog/how-much-do-voice-actors-make-online

 

an experienced voice actor isn't the same as a celebrity voice actor, which there are many celebrity voice actors in swtor.

 

 

Average Voiceover Salaries by level (average)

The average entry level voice actor earns: $18,390 -$31,400

A more experienced voiceover actor between: $76,297 – $90,000 a year

Top talent and celebrities: $100,000 – millions

 

https://www.spgstudios.com/how-much-do-voice-actors-make-with-voiceover-work/

Edited December 16, 2021 by SaerethDL

[Stradlin]

an entry-level voice actor earns about $18,390 per year

the average voice actor earns about $31,400 per year

an experienced voice actor earns about $90,000 per year

 

Here's the link too: https://www.avosjourney.com/blog/how-much-do-voice-actors-make-online

 

We have no idea how much, say, 100k (or 1 mil) is out of budget Bioware gets to play with.

 

 

an experienced voice actor isn't the same as a celebrity voice actor, which there are many celebrity voice actors in swtor.

 

Beyond that, it is bit tough to look at those numbers, think of 50 pc voice actors and not go 'ooofff''. Of course, for various reasons, it isn't as clear cut as just multiplying 90k with 50 or something though.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Stradlin

[SaerethDL]

We have no idea how much, say, 100k, is out of budget Bioware gets to play with.

 

he's also not including the celebrity status voice actors and top talent voice actors swtor has.

 

Average Voiceover Salaries by level (average)

The average entry level voice actor earns: $18,390 -$31,400

A more experienced voiceover actor between: $76,297 – $90,000 a year

Top talent and celebrities: $100,000 – millions

 

sauce

[DWho]

he's also not including the celebrity status voice actors and top talent voice actors swtor has.

 

Average Voiceover Salaries by level (average)

The average entry level voice actor earns: $18,390 -$31,400

A more experienced voiceover actor between: $76,297 – $90,000 a year

Top talent and celebrities: $100,000 – millions

 

sauce

 

Celebrity "voice actors" are Hollywood celebrities doing voice-over work (that's the millions). Also those numbers (and mine) are per year not per project.

[SaerethDL]

Celebrity "voice actors" are Hollywood celebrities doing voice-over work (that's the millions). Also those numbers (and mine) are per year not per project.

 

 

wrong, those two aren't mutually exclusive. They don't have to work in big hollywood films to be considered a celebrity. Most of these guys are celebrities in video games, shows, animes, etc.

 

ce·leb·ri·ty

/səˈlebrədē/

Learn to pronounce

noun

plural noun: celebrities

a famous person.

"a celebrity chef"

[Stradlin]

Celebrity "voice actors" are Hollywood celebrities doing voice-over work (that's the millions). Also those numbers (and mine) are per year not per project.

 

Paying per year (Keeping actor "in house")vs paying per project is prolly part of the issue. Not sure if it is worth it for Bioware of EA to keep tmuch VA talent working "in house" within Bioware per year. Most certainly they don't do so to 48 pcvas. Not enough projects. Like..Bioware paying 100k per year for a voice actor back in mid to late 00s made tons of sense. Bioware released like half a dozen games between 2003 and 2009. Plus expansions to some of these games. Plenty of work for a voice actor there. They do much less than that now. So it makes more sense to do some freelancer approach when hiring VA talent. Which is prolly less cost efficient and more cumbersome. Plus, from BW's part, when they hire for specific project or for specific conent patch, there is temptation to keep things short and sweet to ensure price tag remains modest. If the VA is "in house", BW has every motivation to keep them busy with tons of stuff.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Stradlin

[DWho]

wrong, those two aren't mutually exclusive. They don't have to work in big hollywood films to be considered a celebrity. Most of these guys are celebrities in video games, shows, animes, etc.

 

ce·leb·ri·ty

/səˈlebrədē/

Learn to pronounce

noun

plural noun: celebrities

a famous person.

"a celebrity chef"

 

You're just mincing words now. You know as well as I do that no voice actor for SWTOR is making millions of dollars per year.

[SaerethDL]

You're just mincing words now. You know as well as I do that no voice actor for SWTOR is making millions of dollars per year.

 

no you're making stuff up to support your agenda. If you don't think people like nolan north and jennifer hale are celebrities, I really don't know what to tell you. The point is, these top quality voice actors added together require a big sum of money and time allocation to make their schedules work . To say otherwise is just silly.

[DWho]

In a way, that's prolly part of the issue. Not sure if it is worth it for Bioware of EA to keep tons of VA talent working "in house" within Bioware per year. Not enough projects. Like..Bioware paying 100k per year for a voice actor back in mid to late 00s made tons of sense. Bioware released like half a dozen games between 2003 and 2009. Plus expansions. Plenty of work for a voice actor. They do much less than that now. So it makes more sense to do some freelancer approach when hiring VA talent. Which is prolly less cost efficient and more cumbersome.

 

The problem is that no one knows for sure what Bioware is working on now. There is a rumor about a new Mass Effect title which could certainly justify having several voice actors under contract (particularly the more famous ones that have already worked on that franchise - and SWTOR as well). EA is also a big company with lots of releases and Bioware is part of EA so any contract would likely be with EA an not directly with Bioware.

 

The point of all of this is that your argument that Player Character voice-overs is what is holding back content release is extremely weak and based on lots of assumptions. It is far more likely that the reason for limited releases is related to the amount of time spent on the group content and reinventing the wheel every expansion, which requires far more effort than any story content including the voice-overs. Group content is essential to an MMO so getting rid of it is not an option either just like getting rid of the defining aspect of SWTOR (voice acting) is not an option. By far the largest expense in this game is the licensing followed by the developers. The voice acting, whatever its costs, is inconsequential compared to those costs.

[Stradlin]

The problem is that no one knows for sure what Bioware is working on now. There is a rumor about a new Mass Effect title which could certainly justify having several voice actors under contract (particularly the more famous ones that have already worked on that franchise - and SWTOR as well). EA is also a big company with lots of releases and Bioware is part of EA so any contract would likely be with EA an not directly with Bioware.

 

The point of all of this is that your argument that Player Character voice-overs is what is holding back content release is extremely weak and based on lots of assumptions. It is far more likely that the reason for limited releases is related to the amount of time spent on the group content and reinventing the wheel every expansion, which requires far more effort than any story content including the voice-overs. Group content is essential to an MMO so getting rid of it is not an option either just like getting rid of the defining aspect of SWTOR (voice acting) is not an option. By far the largest expense in this game is the licensing followed by the developers. The voice acting, whatever its costs, is inconsequential compared to those costs.

 

What group content? Few quite straightforward FPs and an OP every 2.5 years? If such intense group content focused release schedule is costly and the very thing that vacuums SWTOR's budget dry, then wouldn't it make sense to patch stuff up with some extremely affordable and easy to produce PCVA stuff? Everybody wants story..if it is fast and cheap to make, why not pour it on people to keep them content as they focus on maintaining the costly massive 4 Ops/decade phase?

Edited December 16, 2021 by Stradlin

[DWho]

no you're making stuff up to support your agenda. If you don't think people like nolan north and jennifer hale are celebrities, I really don't know what to tell you. The point is, these top quality voice actors added together require a big sum of money and time allocation to make their schedules work . To say otherwise is just silly.

 

Fine, believe what you want. I maintain that both you and Stradlin are overestimating by a huge amount, the cost savings associated with dropping voice acting (and the negative impact). Nothing more to say there. You have your opinion and I and many of the other posters in this thread don't agree with your assessment.

[DWho]

What group content? Few quite straightforward FPs and an OP every 2.5 years? If such intense group content focused release schedule is costly and the very thing that vacuums SWTOR's budget dry, then wouldn't it make sense to patch stuff up with some extremely affordable and easy to produce PCVA stuff? Everybody wants story..if it is fast and cheap to make, why not pour it on people to keep them content as they focus on maintaining the costly massive 4 Ops/decade phase?

 

They did that in 4.0 and the outcry from the vocal minority was deafening. So much so that they scaled back KotET to the point it had so many plot holes that it didn't make sense and then reverted to Flashpoints as a vehicle to present story (so they could say they were producing group content) which was a complete disaster. 4.0 was probably the best expansion in the game as far as content was concerned. It was massively successful in bringing people in to the game to at least try it out. The chapter per week model was the flaw in the system.

[TrixxieTriss]

an experienced voice actor isn't the same as a celebrity voice actor, which there are many celebrity voice actors in swtor.

 

 

Average Voiceover Salaries by level (average)

The average entry level voice actor earns: $18,390 -$31,400

A more experienced voiceover actor between: $76,297 – $90,000 a year

Top talent and celebrities: $100,000 – millions

 

https://www.spgstudios.com/how-much-do-voice-actors-make-with-voiceover-work/

 

You do know the voice actors have multiple roles outside of Bioware?

 

So your info from this and other posts regarding this are falsely misleading the discussion because even if the top VAs get 100k a year, that isn’t all from Bioware and it’s not every year they get a lot of work.

 

Sure they may have them on retainer or contract. But if they aren’t actually doing any work, that means they aren’t getting paid by Bioware. What do you think they live on in between the work Bioware contracts them for?

 

Let’s also consider how much work they are “actually” doing for that pay. The less they do the less they get paid. And I think we can all see the huge decline in actual story content over the years, so each year the VA’s would be getting less and less income from swtor.

 

Therefore, your argument that insinuates that they all get 100k a year from swtor work (which is what you are off handedly trying to imply) is flawed on so many LvLs.

 

This is also from the source (not sauce) you quoted.

 

The national hourly average rate for voice actors in the United States is $37 per hour. However, that’s not to say you won’t earn more or less.

 

Voice Acting Salaries by type of work (average)

 

* Non-Broadcast recordings such as video games and audiobook recordings are paid on a word count basis. In comparison, Broadcast work is paid based on the market distribution and usage of the voice over.

* Commercials – A radio advert would pay less than a national TV advert: $100 – $10,000

* Audiobook narration – $100 – $400 an hour. A high earning talent has an average of $2,000 – $6,000 per audiobook narration.

* Animation voiceover work – This ranges on the type of animation or cartoon but on average an earning between $100 – $10,000

 

You will notice that gaming VA work isn’t listed. But let’s assume for arguments sake that it falls under animation work.

Even using 16 seperate VAs at the maximum work rate of $10,000 a job, that’s only a $160k for all the work. Which is a drop in the bucket for game development.

Edited December 16, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[SaerethDL]

You do know the voice actors have multiple roles outside of Bioware?

 

So your info from this and other posts regarding this are falsely misleading the discussion because even if the top VAs get 100k a year, that isn’t all from Bioware and it’s not every year they get a lot of work.

 

Sure they may have them on retainer or contract. But if they aren’t actually doing any work, that means they aren’t getting paid by Bioware. What do you think they live on in between the work Bioware contracts them for?

 

Let’s also consider how much work they are “actually” doing for that pay. The less they do the less they get paid. And I think we can all see the huge decline in actual story content over the years, so each year the VA’s would be getting less and less income from swtor.

 

Therefore, your argument that insinuates that they all get 100k a year from swtor work (which is what you are off handedly trying to imply) is flawed on so many LvLs.

 

I didn't say any of this, I merely corrected DWho on what he left out in his post. I never in fact said they are getting paid hundreds of thousands or millions each for doing LOTS.. if so please quote me where I said that.

[TrixxieTriss]

I didn't say any of this, I merely corrected DWho on what he left out in his post. I never in fact said they are getting paid hundreds of thousands or millions each for doing LOTS.. if so please quote me where I said that.

 

You implied it with you posts by not pointing out that only a small amount of that income would be from Bioware.

If you had added that to your posts and not argued over the amount with DWho, you could claim what you are saying is true.

[SaerethDL]

You implied it with you posts by not pointing out that only a small amount of that income would be from Bioware.

If you had added that to your posts and not argued over the amount with DWho, you could claim what you are saying is true.

 

Nope I merely corrected Dwho whose post didn't show the whole truth. Top tier, and celebrity status voice actors get paid more, its a fact, and thats all I was trying to prove. You won't convince me otherwise.

Edited December 16, 2021 by SaerethDL

[SaerethDL]

You do know the voice actors have multiple roles outside of Bioware?

 

 

 

You will notice that gaming VA work isn’t listed. But let’s assume for arguments sake that it falls under animation work.

Even using 16 seperate VAs at the maximum work rate of $10,000 a job, that’s only a $160k for all the work. Which is a drop in the bucket for game development.

 

That's pretty hilarious you think they all get paid a max of 10k per job. Nolan North wouldn't even answer a phone call for that pittance.

[DWho]

Nope I merely corrected Dwho whose post didn't show the whole truth. Top tier, and celebrity status voice actors get paid more, its a fact, and thats all I was trying to prove. You won't convince me otherwise.

 

You didn't correct anything. You merely posted a different link that was more vague about the levels and happened to have a higher value listed in it. An average of 90K per year easily encompasses most of your top/celebrity category when you consider the only ones making millions are actual Hollywood celebrities doing very large projects like animated movies.

[DWho]

That's pretty hilarious you think they all get paid a max of 10k per job. Nolan North wouldn't even answer a phone call for that pittance.

 

From your own link:

 

Non-Broadcast recordings such as video games and audiobook recordings are paid on a word count basis. In comparison, Broadcast work is paid based on the market distribution and usage of the voice over.

[SaerethDL]

You didn't correct anything. You merely posted a different link that was more vague about the levels and happened to have a higher value listed in it. An average of 90K per year easily encompasses most of your top/celebrity category when you consider the only ones making millions are actual Hollywood celebrities doing very large projects like animated movies.

 

Man I just love countering all your made up claims.

 

As of 2021, Nolan North's net worth is about $4 million.

David Hayter Net Worth: $13 Million

Mark Bazeley earned $39 Million.

Kari Wahlgren net worth: $5 million.

 

Again I countered your claim earlier, you inserted "hollywood celebrities" and what they said in fact was "celebrities" which just means famous people per definition.

Those I listed are some celebrities that do the voice acting work for your player characters. Yes they are in fact making hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions.

You guys thinking they are doing this for less than a mcdonald's wage is pretty freaking hilarious and shows how hard you are trying

Edited December 16, 2021 by SaerethDL

[denavin]

People whose views are in minority should be..silent?

 

You are in the Minority concerning this subject...

 

Thus by your logic, You Should Be SILENT.....