Consider, raids designed for solo play.

[ralphieceaser]

This obviously is quite a bold idea that shatters many previous imo outdated mmorpg philosophies but has quite a few major points in its favor and it is mainly intended for the devs, I am not here to argue with purists.

To be clear, I am not simply suggesting an easy solo option for raids, I am suggesting high end difficult raiding that has a solo option for the same rewards, with higher difficulties requiring more and more optimal performance.

 

1) Devs spend a lot of resources designing raid encounters with interesting mechanics the players have to dance around, yet for all those resources and great ideas high end raiding has always been touched by a minority.

Now imagine instead a raid that could also be done solo for equivalent rewards, I am willing to bet more people would be trying out high end raids solo than with a group.

 

2) The main obstacle to people raiding has always been the social barrier, the anxiety of failure in front of others and the subsequent toxicity of others, all these reasons are barring many players from participating in a type of content that had a lot of work put in it.

 

3) Mmorpgs are played more and more by people who enjoy playing solo no matter how contradictory to the genre it might sound (And by solo I include qued content since you just treat other players as a tool to finish your FP and rarely ever interact with them in any meaningful way)

That suggests creating content that these people do rather than treating group content as the be all end all of mmorpgs might be a more successful strategy, since you are focusing on producing content most people play rather than content only a minority experiences.

 

4) Another common problem in raiding has always been getting enough people for it, often leading to guilds having to get more people than they need and have a bench just so if anything happens they ll still be able to raid, but issues persist, people quitting, guilds imploding due to drama or guild goals changing, cliques leaving taking away a lot of members, the game company getting sued by an entire state for being weird creeps and having terrible practices causing more people to leave, all these are very common issues that can frustrate and mentally tire people if they have to jump from guild to guild, yet another reason why many might choose solo raiding over group raiding.

 

5) Difficulty. In any raiding game, at the end of the day, you have control only of yourself and your own actions.

That means a dps player is not responsible for a tank's mechanical* failures if they fail to taunt swap in time.

A healer is not responsible for a DPS mechanical failures if they keep getting hit by avoidable damage

A tank is not responsible for a healer's mechanical failure like getting hit/stunned and being unable to heal when needed.

 

That clearly means that at the end of the day, since the only performance you have control over is yours, whenever you "Deserve" to win depends solely on your skill and ability to play your class well, meaning beating a raid solo is just as big of an achievement as beating it with a group and thus obviously deserves the same rewards.

And I could argue even more of an achievement because getting carried is a common thing in raiding, good players often carry others, good healers can save dps from their own mistakes, a good tank can survive a lot longer even without a healer giving bad healers more time to heal them, and a good dps can save the entire raid by bursting down high priority targets quickly or simply performing so well some mechanics are skipped therefore less chance of people failing mechanics, that is a common phenomenon in raiding.

 

*I am using the term mechanical specifically to refer to failures of raid mechanics, not things such as DPS being so bad you hit the enrage timer

 

So not only does this mean you make raiding accessible to more players, it means you would be able to tune the raid even more tightly because it is a lot easier to tune based on the good performance of a single player than sixteen players, meaning you can make it challenging enough so people progress the raid solo and take a while to reach the point of clearing it easily.

After all, group raid design by its nature, requires you to have a big room for error to account for everyone, that room for overall error would be a lot tighter if you only have one person to balance the encounter around.

 

Now on the design, there's 3 paths for this but I will focus on the more realistic ones.

1) Companions able to do all mechanics perfectly yet perform below average in the numbers area, exactly like FF14 current trust system that now has included some trials in it. Obviously that requires the most amount of work.

 

2) NPCs temporarily appearing to deal with mechanics not of your role or group mechanics, this feels a lot simpler achieve since each type of NPC would have a specific purpose and task.

Healing npcs to deal with the typical raid wide unavoidable damage or for tanks if your role is a tank.

Dps npcs for healers to heal and keep alive

Stack npcs walking to a spot you need to stack a mechanic on to survive, requiring you to be quick to find the location and go there

Soak npcs running into random soak spots requiring you to be quick to identify which spot is left to soak

Tank npcs dealing with the taunt swap or generic tank mechanic

Link npcs appearing when there's a link mechanic requiring you to quickly find them and run to them to avoid getting damage by a link mechanic.

Danger circle npcs appearing and moving around like chickens with their heads cut off to simulate mechanics that put a danger area around each player requiring spread.

And so on, each mechanic has an obvious answer to it, instead of relying on a raid leader or a good player protecting you from your slowness by being faster, in this situation, you would need to react fast and find out what you need to do and where because npcs will simply do the bare minimum.

 

This would be my optimal choice since not only does it feel easier to achieve, it makes you feel you are responsible for everything as if you were their commander, making the raid more immersive with the story as well, you are leading a group of random soldiers to defeat the enemy of your faction!

 

 

3) Redesigning mechanics to work for solo play. Similar to how there's different mechanics based on the difficulty, instead mechanics would be designed around a single player which would mean some mechanics would need to be redesigned.

Stack mechanics for example would need to be tuned to require a major defensive to survive

Soak mechanics could be consecutive soaks requiring the player to get into each circle with only a limited time before the next one explodes

Spread would just be pools on the floor

Link mechanics would require you to stack next to an orb or location etc

 

And so on, I am sure any competent developer could figure out an appropriately creative conversion for any mechanic really, only ones that wouldnt be possible would be ones that literally end up requiring groups to separate in multiple different rooms at the same time, only those would require a big change.

 

 

And just a clarification because I am sure some would confuse this with master mode chapter bosses. MM chapter bosses have a very rough kind of difficulty, the oldstyle type where scaling just gets out of control so it is less about learning the mechanics and dance and performing it well and more about understanding how the dumb AI enemies work and performing well dps wise, which is absolutely an acceptable type of difficulty but because it is so "raw" I feel many are disincentivized when an elite takes away 30% of their health in an unavoidable hit because it feels "too hard, too fast".

 

Solo raiding would simply be just another form of raiding, you would need to perform the mechanics well so there will be a learning curve there, of the soft difficulty type, then it would be performing above average in terms of your role, a dps would need to perform above average to clear the fight before enrage, a healer will have to keep every npc alive including extra bursts of damage to simulate bad dps getting hit by avoidable mechanics and a tank would need to rotate their cds perfectly and position the boss perfectly in order to survive and keep others alive.

 

And keep in mind all that would need to be done while performing mechanics flawlessly, something that for most people would take quite a while to achieve, meaning they knew where they were wrong, unlike hyper scaling hard difficulty, it is a lot easier to identify where they went wrong and know what to do next time, and with each attempt they will likely reduce the health of the raid boss to lower and lower percentages making them feel they are getting closer, incentivizing them to continue, for fun and for the rewards.

All this also means getting carried by others is no longer possible, because you are the only variable in this encounter making the achievement a lot more meaningful than the group raid one.

[RikuvonDrake]

tldr you want solo raids with nightmare mode rewards but the encounters would become easier and easier for every time you die

 

doubt that's gonna happen, in particular considering how few players run the MM chapters on a regular basis (outside of achievement hunters doing them once), there is simply not a large demand for challenging solo content. and making them clearable by the wider playerbase is already a thing with story mode difficulty being where it is

Edited December 14, 2021 by RikuvonDrake

[Jesseriah]

Why can't people just accept that OPs are for groups and NOT for solo players, let alone NM mode. Nobody in this game needs NM gear for any content in this game besides NM-raiders (and even they don't need it to compete in this game).

[fire-breath]

Flashpoints are intended for 4 pe...... owh wait ...... they introduced solo mode for those who want to see a flashpoint on their own terms.

Saying that operations are meant for 8 people and therefore not for solo players is invalid. Also also. Don't think that was the question either.

 

Regarding master mode chapters. They are not being done often because the reward vs challenge and time is not worth it.

Give MM chapters endgame loot and people will do them more often.

 

Not saying that bioware should invest time and effort into this. But if you want to counter OP then do so with actual arguments against it.

[Rion_Starkiller]

There are some specific mechanics in raids that require more than one person. Unfortunately, companions are too dumb to help with most of those mechanics (even with player micro-management).

 

Let's use Infernal Council in EV as an example:

(taken from Merlyn's site)

This encounter involves each player fighting a 1v1 solo battle. It is super important that no guards, raid buffs, AoE buffs or AoE heals are used and that no player damages any boss other than their boss or heals anyone other than themselves.

 

Each player should be assigned to an individual boss. Generally, tanks should take Juggernauts, DPS should take Marauders and healers should take Assassins. Once everyone is ready, someone will click the console in the entryway to drop the bosses and make the active and able to be damaged.

 

Each player will kill their own boss. Juggernauts and Marauders are very straightforward. Assassins deal a fair bit of damage and can be challenging for some healers. Reflect abilities are very useful, as is respeccing to a DPS discipline for that fight.

 

If a player attacks a boss that has been “claimed” by someone else or heals another player, they get a debuff that prevents them from any damage or healing for 60 seconds. This buff is refreshed if they attempt to damage/heal anyone.

 

Thus, everyone should take care of their own boss and avoid anyone else. Once their boss is down, the player an use ONE damaging ability to help another player. They will then get the debuff and be unable to help.

 

It is possible to have one player take care of two bosses in case of players who are unable to kill their boss. In that case, no one “picks up” the boss and it will wander around until someone can kill their boss and then is free to pick up the second one.

 

How do you propose to be able to defeat 8 "bosses?" Also, you'd probably have to unsummon your companion or he/she would mess it all up. But let's say the devs change it so that one boss releases from imprisonment at a time -- on a timer -- plus your companion is automatically unsummoned. You beat it. Now what about the next boss? What happens when Soa puts you in a mind trap?

 

The devs would have to go through and adjust each boss in every raid. I don't think it's feasible to make raids solo-able.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Rion_Starkiller

[arunav]

Eternal Championship is basically a solo Ops that also teaches basic Ops mechanics to players unfamiliar with them.

 

I get the impression it wasn't utilized much by most players generally, after the Sprint Champion contest was over and whoever did it to get Bowdaar as a companion.

 

In short, they did make a solo Ops, and it wasn't, as far as players can tell, especially popular. Only BW has the actual numbers.

 

Considering how little playable content is in the updates in more recent years, I'd prefer BW just add what they know how to do well and know works. I'd most like to see, after the new Op is put in the game, the occasional new open world planet (or expanded zones for existing ones), a new 8v8 WZ mode, and a new GSF map (preferably also a new game mode). We already see FPs being made on a regular basis, and I assume these will continue to be in updates.

 

Your points about some of the drawbacks on running Ops were true back in 2012, and continue to be now, but I think there are easier solutions than making a whole new content type that might not be engaged much by players. Given the response we saw recently to the Spirit of Vengeance FP, I sincerely doubt Ops for solo players would be that popular. Instead, gearing tracks that are more open to non-Ops players seem like a far more practical option.

 

I personally think in a game where most of the multiplayer content is from the SoR expansion or prior (7-10 years old), gearing options should be available outside of Operations to get to what is optimal for your class or spec. It allows folks to enjoy what they like about SWTOR's available content for gearing up, and the ability to then jump into whatever harder content they prefer most, without having to grind 1 Operation over and over again.

Edited December 15, 2021 by arunav

[Saeten]

This obviously is quite a dumb idea....

 

Raids are never to be considered for solo play. This post should be locked and/or deleted for even thinking this out loud.....

[ralphieceaser]

Eternal Championship is basically a solo Ops that also teaches basic Ops mechanics to players unfamiliar with them.

I would agree but it lacks on very important factor, it lacks progression and gear loot.

 

Raids are repeatable because rewards are RNG, thus people have to clear them multiple times.

More importantly power progression is designed to work with raid progression, something that solo content is lacking as you could often clear solo content with average gear, imagine if Eternal championship gave highest irating gear, had a weekly lockout so you could only clear it once per week and you werent guaranteed to get the drops you wanted, replayability.

 

What i am arguing for is the same thing as raid progression which is affected by power progression, meaning early on you can clear the first bosses with average gear, but the later bosses to be mathematically beatable require better gear, meaning the power progression is a major factor is raid progression.

 

That simply does not exist in solo content in mmorpgs because it usually is incredibly easy with barely any challenge.

 

 

Why can't people just accept that OPs are for groups and NOT for solo players, let alone NM mode.

Then stop putting the best rewards behind them, simple.

 

tldr you want solo raids with nightmare mode rewards but the encounters would become easier and easier for every time you die

Um where exactly did you read that?

If anything, solo raids would be harder than group raids so kind of a bigger achievement ;^)

 

And like I said, I dont expect the average person to understand, this is very groundbreaking ideas that the average person who sticks by the status quo cannot handle.

 

Raids are never to be considered for solo play. This post should be locked and/or deleted for even thinking this out loud.....

It sounds to me that the idea scares you because if it ever becomes a reality, it might be the death of group raiding because high end GROUP raiding will be done by an even tinier minority because most would choose to do it solo.

 

I actually wrote this just to keep handy for the future, I am not expecting you to understand.

 

There are some specific mechanics in raids that require more than one person. Unfortunately, companions are too dumb to help with most of those mechanics (even with player micro-management).

 

I agree which is why i said it would be the option that requires the most work, ff14 has done this with their dungeons and some trials but it takes a lot to have companions that are able to do mechanics without bugging or having pathing issues, a huge issue in today's swtor.

 

Regarding to the mechanics, like I said the vast majority of the mechanics can easily be translated to solo versions, few that cant, such as separating teams that go into different rooms at the same time or what you describe would obviously had to be reworked more.

An easy solution would be for all those 8 enemies to instead come 1 by one in succession, with the time spend obviously removed from enrage since it would take longer solo, and they would be released with in specific intervals requiring the solo player to perform well otherwise he will be overwhelmed.

 

Solutions exist if you are creative and have a will.

Edited December 16, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[ralphieceaser]

Regarding master mode chapters. They are not being done often because the reward vs challenge and time is not worth it.

Give MM chapters endgame loot and people will do them more often.

 

Definitely true, I enjoyed doing master mode chapters but there really is no reason to do them again, I ll probably replay them on my new main in 7.0 since it makes the story more immersive when everything is dangerous but there is no real replayability or benefit.

 

Plus each one would need a weekly lockout if they gave good rewards to stop people from spamming the easiest one all day

 

And it would also be very fitting, because I am certain kotet chapter 2 MM is probably harder to do solo for many dps compared to a group, so the solo version is harder.

Edited December 16, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[Sarova]

Raids are never to be considered for solo play. This post should be locked and/or deleted for even thinking this out loud.....

Agreed. I'm a die hard soloer and the original post (apart from being too long) is a bit silly. Raids are for groups. I will concede that story aspects should not be hidden behind raids though. That was an issue in WoW for me for years until they introduced the free-for-all big raid groups for randoms via LFR. I used to love 25 man LFR as it allowed loads of players to experience the raid story. It was the first thing I did on Weds reset up until Legion (I left before legion went live). No-one cared that it was easier than "proper" raids or gave reduced rewards; it was fun to get to see what went on inside and take down the bosses. Random 25 man LFR for all the Ops is something I'd like to see in SWTOR. It is the only thing that would get me doing Ops regularly in this game.

I have done organised guild raids (in wow not swtor) and found it awful so stopped doing them; the dynamic is so different and not fun. Other than LFR the only other raiding I did was with a friend in raids that were much lower than our level (but still a challenge) for the drops (yes I did get the Swift Zulian Tiger mount drop ).

[Revenaught]

Raids are never to be considered for solo play. This post should be locked and/or deleted for even thinking this out loud.....

 

This is a terrible response. No matter how much you may disagree with someone they should never be silenced and not allowed to speak.

[Rion_Starkiller]

I agree which is why i said it would be the option that requires the most work, ff14 has done this with their dungeons and some trials but it takes a lot to have companions that are able to do mechanics without bugging or having pathing issues, a huge issue in today's swtor.

 

Regarding to the mechanics, like I said the vast majority of the mechanics can easily be translated to solo versions, few that cant, such as separating teams that go into different rooms at the same time or what you describe would obviously had to be reworked more.

An easy solution would be for all those 8 enemies to instead come 1 by one in succession, with the time spend obviously removed from enrage since it would take longer solo, and they would be released with in specific intervals requiring the solo player to perform well otherwise he will be overwhelmed.

 

Solutions exist if you are creative and have a will.

 

While I don't think solo raids are particularly feasible, I do agree that companion update/revamp would be good for the game.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Rion_Starkiller

[Mevan]

I'm all for operations being adjusted to incorporate a solo mode for those who dislike grouping. It just isn't worth the aggravation of grouping honestly. Flashpoints can be enough of a nightmare with some of the dregs that pop up, and this game has catered to those with solo inclinations for years now, why fight it?

 

Solo mode with very limited rewards (or none at all, being able to experience the op would be reward enough for most) would allow raiders to keep raiding as normal, losing nothing, while letting solo players see and experience content they'd otherwise never touch.

 

I'd love to see the Dxun op and the upcoming op at least once for the experience, but I'm just not interested in all the negativity that comes with group content anymore, and I know plenty of other people who have never and will never go into an operation as long as they require rolling the dice with groups.

 

There's been so few content drops these past few years, solo ops would only help extend people's subscriptions.

[Darth_Sidewinder]

I think it would be great to make some watered-down version for, say, smaller groups (4 people with companions or somesuch). That way, most people would be able to somehow play it with a couple of friends.

 

Other option is to make them soloable, but in some really watered down version, if it is technically possible, but just for the sake of the STORY. Like the OP correctly said there's been a lot of effort put into it and it seems stupid that such great content is gated for many - or I daresay majority of the players.

 

However I absolutely DON'T think there should be adequate rewards for that. Let hardcore raiders, or even "soft-core" raiders have their rewards for doing the hard stuff. But I'd like to be able to, for instance, just know how the Dread Masters storyline ends. That by itself would be a reward enough for me. I don't need to get anything for it.

[SeCKSEgai]

I get why people want it --- one of the aspects I enjoyed about the old Star Wars Galaxies was being able to do most things solo and choose to interact or not with other players.

 

But it's pretty clear that virtually everyone that would like it have little to no actual experience with the raiding, because they would understand why its both impractical and not really feasible.

 

Like mentioned before, the eternal championship is a fine example of mechanics in play and how poorly the companions are suited for them. The fight with Revan on Yavin 4 is nothing like the fight with Revan in the operation, even in the story mode. If you want the "operation experience" you need to be willing to work with others.

 

I know it can be intimidating for some, and getting started is the hardest part. But its dramatically easier now to complete story mode operations now than it was when i started, and yet you still see players struggle with BASIC stuff. With companions in their current state, many players don't realize how much room for improvement they have, and yet the other day I saw someone beat a master mode (intended for 4) cademimu on a sniper using ONLY his head and feet. Most of the player base would fail to do so with full use of their limbs, just to put it in perspective.

 

A solo operation is like asking for pvp against bots -- you might eventually be able to mimic player behavior but its not the actual experience if you aren't actually competing against and with other players.

[Setta]

 

2) The main obstacle to people raiding has always been the social barrier, the anxiety of failure in front of others and the subsequent toxicity of others, all these reasons are barring many players from participating in a type of content that had a lot of work put in it.[/color]

 

I've been playing MMOs for over 20 years at this point. Good ones, bad ones, and everything in between. I've left SWtOR around 2 or 3 times. In every MMO, in every guild, being new, or coming back as I have here and forgetting years worth of content that I once knew, not once did it matter. Because 95% of the guilds out there will help you learn the content. Regardless of how old it is, regardless of your skill level and anything else. I've been in a few guilds that specifically have a newbie training course for people who have never done ops.

 

Pugs are worthless because those people don't care about you, but guilds are a different story. As long as you can get on voice chat and just listen (don't even have to talk) or some go as far to just type things out and have you read them you'll be fine. Guilds understand not everyone will get everything in one go wipes will happen and mechanics won't be executed perfectly. If you're really that worried about it (not you specifically, but a general you) there are Youtube videos with guides on how to do a boss that you could watch before hand.

 

The thing is this is a self made problem with an easy solution that people refuse to fix. They just want stuff without actually trying to better themselves. In all honesty the raid itself is generally more fun than the rewards until you get to the point where it's just something you have to do for gear. Thinking that people will laugh at your or hate you for failing something is a self made problem that you (again not you specifically) have created in your head. I've seen veteran tanks & healers troll the groups and cause wipes in good fun. I've wiped groups before in spectacular fashion as the group laughed for a full 10 to 15 min before we were able to resume game play again normally, and not once was anyone flipping out or popping a vein. If you're in a guild like that it's time to find a new guild asap.

[Medullah]

This is a great idea! I think it should be extended. I really like the Ranked PvP rewards, but I hate doing PvP. They should spend a significant amount of time and resources coding the game so that I can pick 7 companions and put my team vs my companions team and get credit for doing Ranked!