Leveling Experience Feedback

[CeciliaW]

Character feels a bit slow on leveling - might be because of how few abilities are granted at a time. I think everyone in this thread is used to getting 4-5 abilities for every couple of levels. The change may not be a bad thing - it just slows the leveling waaaaay down as things take longer to die

 

Also, couldn't find the right place to post this, but slicing nodes are not working on the pts. I was trying to level crew skills as well, and scavenging and archeology work fine, but slicing just does not work. Haven't tried bio yet.

 

I've been playing mostly sorc (Inquis and warrior to see the diff)

 

Something of note - I'm doing a bunch of side quests to keep my level up so I'm not underleveled at the next planet. Players who just want to do story will definitely not be leveling fast enough.

Edited December 12, 2021 by CeciliaW
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[Lady_Myajha]

Character feels a bit slow on leveling - might be because of how few abilities are granted at a time. I think everyone in this thread is used to getting 4-5 abilities for every couple of levels. The change may not be a bad thing - it just slows the leveling waaaaay down as things take longer to die

 

Also, couldn't find the right place to post this, but slicing nodes are not working on the pts. I was trying to level crew skills as well, and scavenging and archeology work fine, but slicing just does not work. Haven't tried bio yet.

 

I've been playing mostly sorc (Inquis and warrior to see the diff)

 

To be honest, about 50% of the skills we get currently on live are at best situational.

 

I think the problem isn't the number of skills, but when they are given. Live has a thing where you get a number of skills, your primary attack chains and all, very early in the leveling process... and then later on situational skills every few levels or so. That's kind of how it should be on PTS right now. Give us all of our primary attack abilities up front for the first 10 levels of so, then go ahead and slow down the leveling process, and give us the rest of those skills every 3 or 4. That makes sense

 

Right now though, there's no attack chain, so it takes forever for you to wait for the global and skill cooldowns to get through in order to attack again. Some classes aren't too bad (Vanguard for one) but it's the same there. Spam two to three skills over and over again. For 23 levels.

[Snowkyn]

Playing a BH with Op skill set is interesting. I don't like how late in the leveling experience skills are coming. Don't get any for several levels and then boom 2-4 drop on to the bars.

 

My normal playstyle, I use several keybinds to the keyboard. These are not working. Stealth has to be manually clicked and unclicked, I've always bound this to my keyboard. It works in live but not pts.

 

Opening inventory (I) works, but pressing I again does nothing. Gotta use escape to close inventory or manually click that x on the screen.

 

Character screen opens and closes by pressing c

 

Something is (has to be) messed up there.. coding wise?

 

For now I have to pause my pts run through since keybinds are a huge part of my playstyle.

[Sarova]

Levelling a Warrior with Assassin spec.

• Levelling feels slower, however I don't think that has anything to do with the spec or changes; I think it's because I'm used to levelling alts with the full benefit of a level 50 Legacy and all perks unlocked (e.g. quicker travel, more xp) as well as access to collections (and field trainer) so no travelling for mount training (since that's the only thing offered by trainers now).
   
  
• Companions feel like they've been nerfed even more. I levelled my companions to 40+ and even then the healing is not good, especially on a melee companion.
   
  
• The "activities" solo menu now only offers Flashpoints. Access to heroics and daily areas (CZ, Blackhole, Section X, etc.), IS NO LONGER offered. Have they been removed from this menu for the purposes of PTS testing or is this a new thing that will be making it into live?
  

[RainShadowsmith]

I feel like I started this game too long ago to make the kind of comparison I would like to, though I can vaguely remember being a tad overwhelmed by all the skills all at once on my very very first character.

 

With that being said maybe pick the pace a bit. Lightning/telekinesis is not so bad, but I feel like they were a bit OP early game anyway, but melee only classes just feel like a slog and the lack of skills + gcd makes it feel clunky and less fluid in early game.

 

Leveling speed seems comparable, but lack of skills make it take a bit longer to clear quests.

 

Idk, if this goes here, but I am not really sure how I feel about the current LDS either. Have you reduced the amount it takes to get max light/dark? I also feel like if I pick a light or dark option it doesn’t actually give me the points, but I may just need to play around with it more to get a better understanding of how it’s actually calculating my decisions.

 

But… it’s still an enjoyable experience. New players aren’t going to notice the things a bunch of veterans are.

[Crystal_Mind]

Please use this thread to offer your feedback on the leveling experiencing beginning with a Level 1 character.

 

Please answer the following questions:

 

• How does the character feel in gameplay in general.
  
• How is the pacing of when abilities are granted?
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

 

Thank you!

 

Made a level 1 Sage on PTS and leveled all the way to 23 almost exclusively through "purple" story quests.

 

Combat "feel" effectively didn't change between level 10 and 23, when I got my first discipline-defining ability. (It is worth noting that--since I had no guild/legacy xp buffs and was avoiding side quests--I hit Level 23 after starting Nar Shaddaa. That's a while to go with just being a plain "sage.") When my combat abilities consist of Project, TK Throw, Disturbance, and Force Quake, and I don't have any passives to tie them together, it's not what I call engaging. Just getting TK Wave at 23 made everything much smoother.

 

That said... the only players who are going to have that exact experience are unguilded new players on their very first toon. Established players have access to a multitude of xp perks, and even when I level alts, I usually pursue exploration quests to diversify the story experience, or supplement with heroics, etc. 10-23 is still a combat-ability wasteland, but it's not necessarily 3 planets worth of wasteland unless you're specifically tunneling on purple quests.

 

A few other notes relating to disciplines and leveling:

• We need some signposting for switching disciplines, and/or a tutorial on how loadouts work. Right now you're stuck with your class default unless you go out of your way to change it on fleet/ship/cantina/etc.
  
• Unless you're in a location where you can switch disciplines, you can't even look at the other "trees." I'd like an inspect option.
  
• The lack of discipline identity before Level 23 really annoys me, especially with how flashpoint level-gating works. Lowbies already struggle in the old "leveling" flashpoints when paired with max-level players. The lack of passives and DCDs in the new ability-grant stream will not improve that situation.
  

[Damask_Rose]

Lvl 15 now. No heroic weeklies are showing up in my solo queue even though I'm in the level range for DK heroics. I picked them up from fleet. Got one done before having to log for work. They are significantly harder than on live due to fewer attacks, no defense and spending significant time stunned.

[DWho]

Carnage Marauder Feedback (Balmora):

 

Leveling is pretty consistent. It is possible to maintain a level close to the planet cap with a mix of planetaries and class missions. Class missions alone cause you to fall behind. The gap in granting new abilities appears to be 4 or 5 levels with 1 abilitiy given at each "upgrade" for levels 15 and 19 and then 4 abilities (2 passive and 2 active) given at level 23. I think Gore could be given at level 21 (along with Enraged Slash) and then Berserk and Brooding at level 23 to spread out the ability gain a bit. It would be nice to have something at 13 and 17 to keep from stagnating progression. Levels 11-23 is a bit of a dead zone.

 

The storyline end fight with Cmdr Rylon and the Jedi was reasonable at 2 levels above the planetary cap (It's much easier on live). With a squishy Marauder, there were a couple of times health was 50% or lower before Vette cast a heal. Probably about right for inexperienced players.

 

Unlike Drommund Kaas, I was able to acquire a nearly full set of Balmoran gear from basically the storyline. Perhaps this is due to the mission rewards not being finalized for all classes.

 

Two bugs to report. The first is with the Turrets for the Wild Fire mission. The ones on the edge of the area are not counting towards the mission completion. The map shows you clearly within the mission area but when the turret is clicked, it acts as if it is going to count but when the "cast" finishes, it does not update the number of turrets completed. The second is a longstanding mismatch between the quest giver text and the turn in point. The quest giver refers to Lt. Treshoda as "he" but turning in that mission, Lt. Treshoda is clearly female. Since this includes voice-overs, probably not fixable.

[Lady_Myajha]

Bug:

 

Playing a Sorcerer./Lightning, currently level 16. Haven't been able to change my specialty on my sorc regardless if I'm in a cantina or not. Went into Black Talon and finished the mission. Sitting on the bridge of the Black Talon and I open my character screen on my Sorc and it shows that I can change my specialties with the selections actually lighting up as I pass over them. Course I can't because I'm not in a cantina.

 

Go to Drommund Kaas. Go to the cantina there. Now the selections can no longer be chosen again, even if I'm in a cantina.

[mrcda]

I leveled a jedi shadow through the jedi knight story to level 11. starting with three ability's on the bar and gaining two more while leveling felt slow for attack abilities . not getting stealth from the get go with a shadow felt wrong in the infiltration spec.

I hope this helped

[JakRoanin]

• How does the character feel in gameplay in general.
  
• How is the pacing of when abilities are granted?
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

 

Thank you!

 

Well, aside from missing my instant quick-travel the gameplay is fine.

 

My leveling of abilities is okay, I'm not in a super rush but it's weird not to be able to choose my discipline immediately at LvL 10. Still on Tython will edit more if I need too.

[Sarova]

Something else to add about STEALTH. People are not going to like the changes to this at all. Before, if you took the time, you could usually work out a way to get past ordinary mobs that had stealth detect to avoid wasting time killing worthless mobs when doing class quests, heroics and other normal PvE/Story stuff (handy if you're on alt no.77+). Now, you will be automatically un-stealthed when you're within maybe 5 metres of them, so you're forced to kill them (running off is no help as they are more than often in closely packed groups with other stealth detect mobs or in an instance so they'll follow you until they are killed). To clarify, these mobs no longer just see through stealth, you are automatically un-stealthed; your stealth ability is neutralised. No chance at all to sneak around them anymore; vanish doesn't work to drop aggro either as they just immediately un-stealth you again. Meh.

 

If it works like this in PvP, cue rage-threads (although classes with a detect stealth will be brilliant as stealthers won't be able to get anywhere near ever).

[Kyhiker]

Here are my observations and thoughts:

1. Inventory keystroke. Opens inventory, but does not close it. You have to actually click the X at the right top corner to close the inventory window.

 

2. I do NOT like that you cannot choose your combat discipline at level 1. This should be a level one choice. You KNOW what you want to play at level 1!! That is why we create our characters. So this needs to be fixed.

 

3. Crafting window is still broken. The amount of craftable items does not match the materials available to craft. Once you send companions out to craft said items, the item count does not decrease with every click of the mouse. If you can craft 25 items, and you click "Craft" 25 times, the number of items that are available to craft do not decrease. It will still read 25. Sometimes the materials do not decrease with the mouse clicks either.

Also, when you open say Scavenging and send a comp out on a level 5 mission, and then click on Underworld Trading, instead of showing either level 1, or your current max level of that skill, it will automatically open the window to the level 5 that was for Scavenging. This has been broken for some time now. Please, fix this.

 

4. The skills learned are pathetic. Playing a commando Medic, I now have to wait until level 23 for med probe?? And I got both med probe and advanced med probe at the same time!! And I do not like the automatic award of skills. If that is going to be the norm, then get rid of the skills trainers. But, please keep the skills like they were. This long wait between level 1 and 15 or whatever for the rest of your skills sucks! You guys need to adopt the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". Because right now it feels like you guys are fixing it right to the point of broken!

 

5. The new skill tree is horrible! It feels like it is going to be way too generic. Everyone will have the same combat skill tree. It just feels like it has been dumbed down for those who do not want to take the time to actually figure out some combat combinations. I do not like it at all. Leave it like it was, PLEASE!!

 

6. The overall mixing of character classes is horrible. I believe it would have been better if you guys would have just pulled some combat abilities from some of the other classes and allowed us to choose them for a secondary combat ability. With this whole class implant into other classes, it is not enjoyable. I mean, I play a trooper for heavy armor and weapons. Not to go stealth and have to wear medium armor. I just feel like it was just thrown together without any real thought process.

Something that I feel should have been from the beginning, is the Smuggler and BH should have been a "Neutral" class. Where upon creation, you choose which side you want to align to. Empire or Republic. Because smugglers and BH's are on both sides in reality!!

Also, how about those characters who have become "Traitors" during game play?? I feel that a better immersion, would have been to allow those players who have traitors, to switch sides. And especially for those force using characters, the light and dark side levels should have came into play for either LS or DS force abilities!

 

Overall, I just feel that this new expansion is NOT going to be everything we had hoped for. I see a lot of issues and broken play coming in our future.

I have been playing since launch as a sub, and I have weathered MANY changes. Some were not so good, but most were good. This new expansion, IMHO, is not going to be received well.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[ceciltaru]

Heres my thoughts so far:

1. I actually like the new character creation interface, although it took a few tries to get weapons to show up when switching around between the different combat styles.

2. I created a Jedi Knight Sage and played through up to level 10. Like someone else mentioned, I have to also think the leveling will be faster once you get all of your perks added. I sort of liked the automatic adding of abilities, especially when I got something in the middle of a fight. Although afterwards i had to remember to set my hotbars up the ways I like them.

3. I also created a Smuggler Sniper and played through up to the first little bit of Old Galactic Market on Coruscant, and hit like level 19. For me, not getting abilities for several levels felt off. Having no crowd control or stun type abilities by the time you get to Coruscant was weird. I felt like I was healing alot more between fights, even easy ones.

4. I guess since you have a scarcity of abilities is why you locked Group Finder. New characters especially would get kicked fast if they didn't at least have a stun. So looking at ability tree I'm guessing most people will not want to group with anyone under 50 then.

5. Not sure what the thinking was for not being able to set your discipline, or get the first discipline ability until level 23. I guess Keith like Michael Jordan or something? It just feels like a really long wait.

[CodeWarrior]

I just started on the PTS yesterday and managed to get a BH through the starting planet (now at level 10).

 

After reading the many prior posts, I agree the lack of any new combat abilities is very bad and is probably enough to deter me from creating any new characters again.

 

But, as I was playing a little more on Dromand Kaus, I noticed something peculiar when using my holo-trainer.

 

Since I had not gotten any new combat abilities since around level 3, now 11, opened the holo trainer and picked to show all abilities (including ones not yet available). There were several (~6) showing as learnable at level 12 and a few more at 13.

 

At this point, I'm thinking, "Great! Another half level and finally learn some new skills".

 

Got to level 12, no new abilities auto-learned. Opened holo-trainer again. All the ones that stated learnable at 12, now show as 13. Now there are about 9 showing learnable at 13.

 

Sure hope this is a bug and the progression of abilities is supposed to be similar to how it was.

 

I purposely had started new legacy on different server, since other was max chars, just so I could get ready to play with the new combat styles.

 

But, if this is how it's going to be, this is enough to make me seriously reconsider.

 

I am NOT going drudge through a series of starting characters in this manner. Also, I can't imagine this attracting any new players either. As long as they haven't nerf'd my existing chars (lvl 50+) that much, or at all. At least I will have something to play.

 

Only played the PTS for 1 day at most and so far, very little has impressed me. And I've played SWTOR since the initial beta.

[Ronyrone]

PTS

• Class: Juggernaut
  
• Starting Class Level: 1
  
• Ending Class Level: 15
  
• Starting Location: Korriban
  
• Ending Location: Dromund Kaas
  
• Legacy Level: 2
  
• Datacrons: Just Korriban
  
• Class Buffs: Just Warrior
  
• Character Perks Used: None
  
• Experience Boost Used: None
  
• Companion Used: Just Vette
  
• Speeder Used: None
  
• Rocket Boots Used: None
  
• Quick Travel Used: None
  
• Emergency Fleet Pass Used: None
  
• Medpacs Used: None
  
• Adrenals Used: None
  
• Stims Used: None
  
• Show Exploration Missions Used: Yes
  
• Missions Done: Class, Exploration, Korriban Heroics, Intro to DK, and talked to Baras
  
• Guild: No Guild
  
• Stronghold Bonus:150%
  
• Conquest Points: 167,979
  
• Ending Credits: 49,071
  
• Ending Item Rating: 34
  
• Starting Inventory Space: 0/30
  
• Ending Inventory Space: 10/30
  
• Ending Mission Reward Complimentary Minor Class Mission Experience Boost: 1
  
• Ending Complimentary Major Experience Boost: 3
  
• Ending Mail: 81
  
• Heroic Moment Used: No
  
• Trained Abilities: Only Speeder Pilot
  
• Abilities: Less Offensive abilities
  
• Given 1 DCD
  
• Given No CC Breker
  
• No Group finder at Level 10
  
• Group Finder at level 15 Hammer Station and Kuat Drive Yards
  
• PvP Que
  
• GSF Que
  
• Used Any Cartel Market Items: No
  

 

Live

• Class: Juggernaut
  
• Starting Class Level: 1
  
• Ending Class Level: 15
  
• Starting Location: Korriban
  
• Ending Location: Dromund Kaas
  
• Legacy Level: 50
  
• Datacrons: All of them
  
• Class Buffs: All of them
  
• Character Perks Used: None
  
• Experience Boost Used: None
  
• Companion Used: Just Vette
  
• Speeder Used: None
  
• Rocket Boots Used: None
  
• Quick Travel Used: None
  
• Emergency Fleet Pass Used: None
  
• Medpacs Used: None
  
• Adrenals Used: None
  
• Stims Used: None
  
• Show Exploration Missions Used: Yes
  
• Missions Done: Class, Exploration, Korriban Heroics, Intro to DK
  
• Guild: No Guild
  
• Stronghold Bonus:150%
  
• Conquest Points: 222,689
  
• Ending Credits: 124,672
  
• Ending Item Rating: 32
  
• Starting Inventory Space: 0/80
  
• Ending Inventory Space: 17/80
  
• Ending Mission Reward Complimentary Minor Class Mission Experience Boost: 1
  
• Ending Complimentary Major Experience Boost: 3
  
• Ending Mail: 81
  
• Heroic Moment Used: No
  
• Trained Abilities: Had to go to the Trainer on Korriban every few levels
  
• Abilities: More Offensive abilities
  
• Given 1 DCD
  
• Given CC Breaker
  
• Group Finder at level 10 Que only Black Talon
  
• Group Finder at level 15 Hammer Station and Kuat Drive Yards
  
• PvP Que
  
• GSF Que
  
• Used Any Cartel Market Items: No
  

 

As a Veteran player on live server I had to play with one hand tied behind my back with all the quality of life buffs I normally have on any given character when leveling them up. I wanted to do a test on the same scenario from server to server As I played through I noticed ALOT of things that could be improved to make a better user experience in particular the way the Tutorial is used.

A few differences in my gameplays was that I did have a fully unlocked inventory space on live server which meant I didn’t have to vendor as often as I had to on PTS. I did have all my class buffs, datacrons and a few more offensive abilities which might be the reason I killed a little less mobs on live than on pts and why I had to do an extra mission on the PTS to be at the same spot. I also had to heal less on Live than on PTS. If I had not gotten 150% stronghold bonus on PTS I would have also not completed conquest or ended at level 15 on PTS.

The Game play from Live and PTS is virtually the same. The RNG of damage, experience and loot drops was virtually not that different .

 

Message to the Devs

As a Veteran player who has played though several testing cycles we as players have been always asked to test how the experience is from a level 1 . I want the Devs to listen and listen VERY Carefully IT DOES NOT CHANGE. With the quality of life changes to how companions don’t need gear and placed as default in heals stance make the incoming player base or those rolling new alts can play the game with little effort. The game does not challenge players when doing story content, exploration missions or heroics. If a player knows or learns how to turn the Explorations missions on then they can get some extra levels in other than that if you just do story content the player will get enough levels to get max’s levels before level sync kicks in.

 

Please stop asking players to test this experience as that should be the job for the QA team. We should be testing the bugs and endgame experience of the newest content.

 

Tutorial System

PLEASE UPDATE . The tutorial system that is implemented in the Knights of the Fallen Empire Chapter 1 with giving the players abilities and teaching the players how to play the game throughout the chapter with interrupts and uses of defensives. The new player tutorial system that is set up at the start of the game does NOT give this great information which makes the incoming player base suffer from information that is not available. At the same time the Tutorial information that is given at the start of the game is not updated with newer/updated pictures as references or even some of the new systems on how they work.

 

Last Notes

While I made a compare pts and live table using the same class I did test Sith Warrior Story as a Sith Sorcerer and had the same experience as a Sorcerer as I did with the Juggernaut class.The Devs need to stop asking players to test the experience when it does not change and have players test the new/endgame content. Get a QA team to test content thats been in game for 10 years. Update information for new incoming players.

[Darth_Sidewinder]

I played so far up to level 10 with a Mercenary (in Trooper storyline) and it is... decent, except for being somewhat disappointed with the abilities I got.

1. NO DUAL-BLASTER ATTACK

 

My biggest disappointment is not having a single ability that would showcase the class's trademark thing: the fact that I have two blasters. There is not a single ability that would have my character fancily showing off two blasters in some epic volley where you can clearly see that I am shooting two different blasters at the same time. The charged shot ability seems awfully lackluster because you could just as well do the same thing with one blaster.

 

2. EXPECTATION / DISAPPOINTMENT / CONFUSION: UNEVEN DISTRIBUTION OF ABILITIES ON LEVELING UP

& 3. ONLY THREE ACTIVE ATTACK ABILITIES BY LEVEL 10

 

Otherwise I am generally confused about the amount of abilities I get on these low levels. Specifically, my expectation clashes with what happens. I basically start with two starting abilities on level 1, then nothing for a few levels, then I learned two more on level 5 or somesuch - both at once - and that's all I have now when I am already on level 10. I would have expected to gain an active attack ability on levels for example 3, 5, 7/8 and 10. Plus around level 2/3 get some utility (like vent heat) and the healing also somewhere in between. Around level 7 or 8, one could get something that already feels a bit "epic" (in the old game, one used to get various massive barrage-knock-out-aoe-attacks around this time). For instance, it could be an abovementioned "dual-wield-showcase ability". Or it could also happen on level 10 to mark the "special occasion", I'd be fine with it. The fact that I got nothing on level 10 (besides the general abilities, ie speeder and heroic moment) was somewhat disappointing. But I could live with that had I had one more stronger ability from before already. The main problem, like I said, was not having anything that would showcase the dual pistols: the reason why many people would pick the class in the first place.

 

At the same time I think it is actually good not to have seven or so abilities by level 10 like it used to be. But right now as a level 10 Mercenary I have effectively only 3 abilities: the rest are either utility (vent heat) or healing (so I assume if I was some purely DPS class I would have 4 attacks). The healing I appreciate a LOT already on this low level, it is amazing to have something that makes you "special" (not everyone gets to be a healer), it is useful and I am 200% for keeping it on these low levels. However, I think a level 10 character should have perhaps four, perhaps five different attacks (maybe four would be optimal). At least one of which should be "cool" - either be aoe (could be weak, "sweeping blasters" - style), or do considerably more damage or have some added value, like stun enemies even if briefly, etc.

 

4. SUBCLASSES SKILL TREES?

 

Another thing I was annoyed about was the inability to inspect other skill trees - at least so far (I am level 10, I don't know when there will come an option to pick my advanced subspecialization). And right now if I open my combat styles window, for example as a Mercenary I can see only, I believe, Arsenal subclass skill tree, but not the others. Firstly, I would like to be able to look at all of those already then so that I could already start thinking about and plan what do I want to pick as my skill tree. Secondly and more importantly, I think this may confuse new players and make them think that the skill tree they see is what they are going to get and not realise that there are two other options. *I* have played SWTOR for 10 years and *I* was thinking for a moment that these were the abilities for all Mercenaries; if I did not know that there are supposed to be three sub-classes, I would not have probably thought about it.

 

5. NO OVERVIEW WHERE MY LEVELING UP IS GOING

 

Anyway it would be nice to be able to see somewhere which abilities I am going to get in the future so that I can mentally prepare for that, or have something to look forward to. It also would save me from neurotically checking the trainers all the time. Because now, when I haven't got a new skill for several levels, I keep wondering whether I SHOULD have and whether I haven't missed something.

 

6. MISC

 

I like the fact that the default class-based boosts are on by default - one would have them on all the time anyway! On the other hand, if there ever comes something similar to the cylinders that used to exist in the old days, I'd very much prefer those to be optionally switchable on and off (or the possibility to switch between them).

 

My overall verdict of the experience is that it is not terrible, but not amazing either. And let me reiterate - the charged burst attack is awfully lackluster, we really need something to show that "I am the dual-wielding Mercenary".

[Ximaus]

Long time player, rare poster. I will start by saying that I truly believe that the original 1-50 leveling experience at the start of the game was fairly smooth (more or less) in terms of abilities you received and when you received them. There are some good points (mostly the Sith Warrior) but there are a lot of head scratchers in terms of what levels you get abilities. I like to think of the 1-50 leveling experience in terms of planets rather than level ranges alone. Also, while I play both sides, I mostly play Empire so all terms will be in relation to those classes.

 

Interrupts

Everyone needs an interrupt before or by the time they reach Alderaan. I don't know why the interrupt is gained at level 31 but that is a fairly arbitrary time to obtain a staple ability every player will need to learn to use. Many chapter 1 end fights have interrupt mechanics and it is very odd to not have an actual interrupt by that point for many players.

 

CC Break

I remember as a player in the first few months of the game purposefully aiming for any player below level 14 in pvp because I knew they didn't have a way to break CC. Imagine my surprise to see that the CC break has somehow been moved to level 19. I don't think there is a good reason to make a player wait for something like this especially if they want to pvp a bit at lower levels.

 

Discipline Defining Abilities

I don't understand the rationale behind placing the main Discipline ability at level 23. One of the greatest parts of leveling was always hitting level 10 and picking your advanced class when you reached the Fleet. Eventually this evolved to just obtaining your Discipline defining ability at level 10. This should be moved back to level 10. I understand that the current tree needs to last; however, players need to feel like they are progressing towards a complete spec on a much faster pace than every 20 levels. The first abilities (such as Shatter/Chain Lightning/Ambush) should all come at level 10. The next tier (which enhances the first ability) can be obtained a bit later if necessary. What is currently the level 39 ability should be obtained by level 30 (end of Alderaan). Again subsequent tiers can be adjusted accordingly. Many of the tiers only have 4 or 5 levels between them so if you increase the levels between these tiers it should not be too hard to readjust them so you are not waiting so long for your defining abilities.

 

 

Now on to the individual Disciplines. Keep in mind I am only commenting on the leveling experience and how it flows with the class as you gain levels. While I would make different decisions about which abilities to enhance in the Discipline tree and which abilities to obtain first, I won't comment on that in this post.

 

Juggernaut

Other than the interrupt and Discipline defining abilities listed above, this class is in a good spot for leveling. They obtain some AoE early on. They obtain their main offensive CD by level 10 (which is when they should also get their main offensive attack). They have a taunt by level 10 as well as a defensive CD by level 15. Sundering comes at level 7 and even in the middle levels you are still getting passives and upgrades to current abilities. This is ideally how all of the classes should feel when leveling in terms of the pace of when you get abilities.

 

Marauder

Largely the same as the Juggernaut with one major disconnect: why can you build Fury 20 levels before you have anything to spend it on? This will be somewhat solved by giving Marauder's Berserk at level 10 but it is still odd to have a resource that does nothing and on which you have nothing to spend it until multiple levels later. Resources that do not otherwise benefit you should be obtained together with the ability which consumes it.

 

Sorcerer

Again, great progress in terms of single target and AoE abilities. Even obtains a heal at level 15 and, if the above change is implemented, will have a heal at level 10 for the Healing Discipline anyway. I still think that Dark Heal should be gained at level 10 but it is a minor gripe. The major gripe? Why do you get Affliction at level 31? That is a major ability for Sorcs and should be granted to them not too long after level 10. Also Crushing Darkness was an ability Sith Inquisitors obtained around level 7 in the past. That ability is a staple to the Madness/Hatred Disciplines and I also feel it should be gained much earlier than level 23 but that is a little less jarring than not having Affliction before level 31.

 

Assassin

There are a lot of issues here. For starters I had to look in my abilities list to find Discharge. It is obtained at level 1 but is not on your bars by default. A new player could easily not realize they have this ability let alone that it should be on their bars. Then, for some reason, they don't obtain their taunt until level 23 even though Juggs get their taunt at level 10. And then, for some other reason, they don't obtain their defensive CD until level 39 even though Juggs get their main one at level 15. It is good that they get Lacerate at level 7 and Stealth at level 10 but the disparities between Sins and Juggs just seems arbitrary.

 

Operative

The Operative suffers heavily from the pointless resource syndrome. You obtain Tactical Advantage at level 8. Again this will largely be solved by moving the Discipline specific abilities down to level 10 since they all consume TA. Originally TA also gave you a bonus to damage and healing so having it before being able to spend it was perfectly fine. That is not the case anymore so it is a wasted resource. I would also question why Operative's do not gain a heal until level 19 while Sorcs gain one at level 15. The specs that fulfill the same roles should at least have the generic tools of those roles at the same levels (so healers should all have a heal at the same level and tanks should all have defensives and taunts at the same level).

 

Sniper

This is where it gets a bit ugly. Why do you obtain Series of Shots at level 47? That is just not at all appropriate. As a way to highlight just how horrid this is I would point to the fact that you get Penetrating Blasts (an ability that supposedly replaced Series of Shots) at level 39. You get the upgrade to Series of Shots as a MM Sniper a whole 8 levels earlier than you get the base ability? That just needs to change. You should be getting Series of Shots in the late Balmorra or early Nar Shadaa in terms of leveling. Also, for MM, Followthrough needs to be earlier than post the main game. There is nothing worse than having your main rotation ability (followthrough in this case) being obtained after the main story of the game. That is just awful pacing.

 

Mercenary

This one is pretty bad as well. Sweeping Blasters is obtained at level 23 while Death from Above is obtained at level 19. Why do all of the other classes obtain their spammable AoE around level 7 while Mercs obtain it arbitrarily at level 23? Not to mention they obtain their longer CD AoE at level 19 before obtaining the spammable one. I like that Mercs obtain Vent Heat at level 6 but then why did Agents obtain their resource regen CD at level 23? Is there some reason those are so drastically different? In terms of class defining abilities, Unload and Rail Shot should both be obtained by level 10; there is no point in delaying them and they are an integral part to the Merc Disciplines. Mercs actually gain a buff from Supercharge stacks so obtaining them early wouldn't be as big of an issue but they don't obtain them until level 10 (which is when they should also get Supercharged Gas) so it isn't an issue at all assuming the above change is implemented in terms of Discipline Defining Abilities. While I would argue HSM should be obtained earlier than 39, if Mercs get Rail Shot by level 10 it will be a little less of an issue. One of the few times I will take issue with the order of abilities in a Discipline Tree: Barrage (which resets the CD of Blazing Bolts) should absolutely not be obtained at level 68. That is way too late. The spec doesn't even feel complete until you have this ability. Consider granting it by level 42 at the latest. My ideal would be for a spec which feels mostly rotationally complete by the end of chapter 2.

 

Powertech

They are not as bad as Snipers or Mercs but they do have some glaring issues as well. They obtain Rail Shot at level 4 which is great but just begs the question of why the other BH spec doesn't also obtain it by level 4. Then they obtain their spammable AoE at level 15 which, again, is decent but why do Mercs not obtain it until level 23? While they do suffer the same issues as Sin Tanks in terms of not obtaining a taunt before level 23, they at least obtain a defensive CD by level 17. They do gain Vent Heat at level 2 for some reason and makes the pacing seem arbitrarily different from Mercs when they are the same base class. Consider pacing out some abilities for Powertechs because they gain a lot by level 2 and have nothing to gain until level 15 except for Rail Shot at level 4. You don't have to gain something new every level but it can feel bad to gain so much in 3 levels and then have to wait another 11 levels for the next new ability.

[Inyahin]

What i'd like to see is the class meditate social abilities being unlocked with the legacy.

So that once you've unlocked the class the social meditate ability is available on every character.

Eg; Focusing Ritual; Meditation; Seethe; etc

[Heavy_Time]

I started off in the Bounty Hunter story as a vanguard shield specialist and leveled from 1-39 so far and just started in on Alderaan. I did all the missions on Hutta, including the heroics before moving on. After Hutta I simply did the planetary story arc, class missions, and the heroics (once to try and get some gear). Pacing, as far as advancement, seems all right. Fighting in general is slower than expected, kind of dull, and a bit frustrating in the early levels. I encountered mobs that heal and stun in early heroics, and did not get my interrupt until level 31. The pacing of skills being added is awful. There are long swathes where you simply receive nothing for leveling, unless it is mid fight and you get your health and resources restored. Leveling is leveling, and it's mostly the same. Just with less skills. It's a bit difficult to judge on test, since there aren't a ton of other people around and there aren't even opportunities to group with others to make the process less tedious. I also have not transferred a character over to this iteration of test, so have had no legacy perks at all except those I've purchased with credits gained while leveling.

[SnEaKyMan]

If the story and levelling will still only require little to no knowledge on abilities or be designed to NOT force a user to learn and use these abilities by design and allow players to get away with spamming the basic ability or aoe ability to kill story enemies or mobs through the planets...then im not sure it really matters about the cadence of when we gain new abilities...theres no NEED to use any of them. The content is far too easy most people never even bother. Every casual streamer Ive ever seen or watched just spam aoe and im sure that goes for every other casual player. (which i assume is the majority of the players). So for them, nothing really changes?

 

For the veteran players, I guess its just mundane and a boring experience from a techincal / mechanical point of view. Obviously, the Story is still the same and if that's all they care for then, its obviously pretty good. But I cant engage with story if there is all this emotional connection build up and investment in characters to just 1 tap some enemy thats supposed to be powerful....that's extremely bland and not very engaging.

 

tldr;

 

I would suggest to make content harder, even for new levelling players. Give them a reason for to learn and use stuns, cc's and the other abilities they gain (that eventually become their rotation), medpacks, stims etc etc.

 

It's just so far from vanilla classic 1 to 50 experience at launch of SWTOR that now everything is dead with 2 lacerates or dead in 1 force storm, even these "deadly" people in the stories. Does not really feel rewarding to kill anyone making the story less far engaging IMO.

Edited December 16, 2021 by SnEaKyMan

[SnEaKyMan]

 

Interrupts

Everyone needs an interrupt before or by the time they reach Alderaan. I don't know why the interrupt is gained at level 31 but that is a fairly arbitrary time to obtain a staple ability every player will need to learn to use. Many chapter 1 end fights have interrupt mechanics and it is very odd to not have an actual interrupt by that point for many players.

 

Well, there is no need to use an interrupt when every single enemy is just dead after 1 or 2 AOE abilities. Content is so much easier its feels like it's a totally different game from doing the 1 to 50 stories at Launch of this game.

Edited December 16, 2021 by SnEaKyMan

[Ramalina]

It has been a very, very, very long time since I've really interacted with the respawn timer in solo world content. Cause yeah, I'm geared, a retired raider, and even most MM content isn't that hard.

 

However, for the lulz, and because it's the sort of thing a new player might do, I've been doing primarily story line quests and just running along in whatever gear drops, and have been picking up [H2+] dailies as I level.

 

Red H2s, current example is lvl 18 fighting lvl 22 NPCs, can actually provide some level of challenge, given that "natural" playstyle can easily leave a character undergeared by 10+ levels. Eh, whatever, it's all easy right?

 

Well, no not always, but that's not really an issue I think. One can gear to the max at level rating, even if it's illogical given the pacing of content and kind of a hassle, and one can improve companion levels beyond "normal" rate, etc. so it's possible to be prepared to handle this sort of thing with some level of ease in terms of over-prepping for the abnormally challenging content option.

 

What is a problem I think, from a new player perspective, is how quickly the respawn timer stacks. If people want to try and fail at a difficult encounter, they're already sinking "wasted" time into it as they break gear, deplete consumables, get frustrated at not having any tools at low level to: interrupt, CC, mitigate damage, etc. So they're banging their head against a wall, and somehow, still sticking with it. This is the sort of "sticky" player you want to retain!

 

The problem is that a new player is going to be slow to implement the various forms of prep, learn the skills, etc. If they're in a situation where it's going to take 15 tries to down a [H2+], what you as a game dev absolutely should not want, is for the game to start telling the player:

 

**** YOU, GO AWAY AND STOP PLAYING OUR GAME!

 

Which is pretty much what the stacking respawn timer does. For open world, instanced [H2], really ANY content that's intended to be played solo, I'd recommend capping the timer at 30 seconds. For group content, especially stuff vulnerable to expoits/non-intended usages, sure have a more punitive timer scaling if you want. For low level solo introductory content though? That's atrociously bad game design, and quite frankly if you keep that sort of thing in game you richly deserve to lose players to QoL issues. It is bad.

 

I mean, I had fun in the encounter, but if a new player asked me if this sort of thing is representative of how SWTOR is developed and whether they should feel justified in quitting and not ever coming back in response, I'd have to say yes to both.

 

It's very much an "I quit" moment sort of thing, it doesn't serve much of a purpose in low level solo content, and it hopefully not that hard to fix. So fix it. SWTOR already has FAR too many reasons for a new player to quit, and the game desperately needs to retain new players instead of driving them away.

[SnEaKyMan]

Having the 'class trainers' still named the base class is confusing, since now those are story bound only the advanced classes turned into combat styles, yet the class trainers littered throughout all the planets in all the locations just make it feel 7.0 combat styles duck taped together. It would look MUCH BETTER to remove those trainers entirely, replace them with 1 trainer.

[Ramalina]

So I've got a followup for the respawn timer comments. Deciding that I had better things to do than wade through while undergeared, I transferred a handful of characters to the PTS so I could quickly craft a full set of gear mods on the new character I was leveling.

 

I didn't bother to think about the fact that this would bring legacy levels, and most of the available datacron bonuses into play in my favor.

 

So looking at finishing that [H2+], the state went from mix of drops acquired naturally during leveling play, resulting in an Item Rating of about 39 on a level 18 character (all gear slots filled), to a character with moddable gear with crafted mods at a gear rating of 59 and I believe all the datacrons except for the 6.0 ones which I haven't gotten around to yet.

 

This increased the health pool by almost 50%, and presumably mastery got a similar level of boost, though I didn't check that beforehand. It took the experience from say challenging 1.0 era/ harder HM Ops/ easier NiM Ops level difficulty down to say easy on farm HM Ops or maybe MM FP level. It was pretty drastic.

 

Though, it was a somewhat selective change. Single Champion NPCs were not at all bad even in "true new player" mode, but a Champion worth of health pool divided into 4 or 5 Elites became massively easier, I think due to a combination of higher companion presence from datacrons and a bigger health pool making incoming damage a lot easier for the companion to heal through.

 

Here's the thing though, as an experienced player with all the goodies and advancements, yes, it's really nice to be rewarded by having avenues to make the content a lot easier on subsequent alt levelings. This will be maybe my 5th, or 6th shadow leveled, so been there, done that, definitely don't need it to be as time consuming and aggravating as it may have been the first time through. I don't really need the help though. Honestly, from a design perspective, in some ways it would make a lot more sense for the new player on their first time through have things like datacron bonuses and a quick way to get bleeding edge modded gear. They don't have the experience and know all the little tricks that can get you through content without the edge in gear and stats.

 

On balance, I'm pleased that there is an option available in the PTS for a new player who is leveling to find content that is genuinely challenging if they go looking for it, or ignore cues and accidentally blunder into it. That said in terms of the gearing experience at low levels, if you don't have a stable of max level alts that can provide the crafted mods, the moddable shells, and the datacron stat bonuses, it's a lot easier for a new player to get into a place where they're honestly sort of stuck. There's content that's beyond what they can handle in large part because of gearing/stats, and without the benefits of being established in the game already there's a shortage of good options for them to get properly kitted out in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not saying they need stats and gear handed to them on a platter, but it would be nice if they had an option to get kitted out at a speed and cost (credits/played time/etc.) so that if they're interested in that sort of challenge, they can get geared for it before they just massively out-level the content and as a consequence no longer really need the gear, and also are no longer getting the increased challenge they might have been looking for. There's a sweet spot that's easy for an established player to hit with say half an hour or an hour's worth of play time, but for a new player to match they're probably going to be a couple of planets past the content by the time they can close the same gear gap.

 

So things like having the fleet and world gear vendors have blue quality armor/mod/enhancement/hilt/barrels for example. Or making the crafting a bit speedier, because stopping to craft enough with just 2-4 companions available is very slow compared to say 30+ high affection companions with crew skills maxed out.

 

The TLDR is that at low level if a new player goes after challenging content it's easy for them to outrun the gearing and end up undergeared without a good way to catch up before they wind up just massively outleveling the content.

 

 

Unrelated notes:

 

The little patch enabled choosing discipline below level 23 which was very nice and appreciated.

 

The "Choose your second combat style" cutscenes were nice, and had an appropriate level of bludgeoning the player with, "Are you sure you want to do this permanently permanent thing?" warnings.