Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Xcore]

Yeah...that attitude you can save for a place where you have an actual say, not here.

 

PS: how is that proof coming along? Do try to read my original question again and answer it this time?

 

What proof? I mean seriously, what proof do you need? Video proof is all over 3 threads...

[jtype_sw]

Sadly, and regardless of his intent, it is still - in my opinion and based on my own observation - a degree of misrepresentation. I do not and will never accept that misrepresenting the facts on the ground is a valid way to inspire change "for the better".

 

I would rather the objective problem be put forward in a clear and concise way than have the details flagrantly and flamboyantly dramatised for the purposes of notice.

 

So no, I won't cut him a break but only because I fear the way he's going about the agenda at hand, one that I think every reasonably intelligent person in this thread agrees on.

 

I definitely understand what you are trying to address, but in all honestly, this is a video game, not some sort of devious political scheme as you make it out to be. What sort of "agenda" do you fear from Xcore's contributions which can only improve the quality of gameplay, or is this thread just another practice seminar to hone on your argumentative skills?

Edited January 2, 2012 by jtype_sw

[Xcore]

Did you just say that finding a bunny fossil in the Cretaceous is easy? Because that's what it seems like you're trying to say.

 

No, I am trying to say that its easy to disprove evolution by doing so... doing so is not easy, in fact I would say impossible... thus evolution is a Scientific Theory (Truth) much like the Theory of Gravitational Forces etc

[Arress]

I just want to chime in here and say, this problem, outlined specifically here...

 

"Thread 1 -- Page 133 -- Poster: ajjw

 

"In a game like WoW, if your previous spell's animation is still playing when you use your next spell, the old animation immediately ends and that of the new spell beings. However in TOR, if an animation is still playing, the game will not let you cast another spell, even if the cast time and GCD have already finished.

 

In other words, if a spell has a 2s cast time but a 2.5s animation, you'll be sat there looking stupid for 0.5s unable to cast anything after the first spell, whereas in WoW the last 0.5s of the old animation will be "clipped" (ie cut off) and you'll be able to cast a new spell immediately, the animation of which will also begin to play immediately."

"

 

Is EXACTLY what killed Warhammer... I mean, to the T the single reason why hundreds of thousands of players left Warhammer...

 

I know EA is working on it... but I thought I'd let them know how much of a deal breaker this is...

[Traumahawk]

Sadly, and regardless of his intent, it is still - in my opinion and based on my own observation - a degree of misrepresentation. I do not and will never accept that misrepresenting the facts on the ground is a valid way to inspire change "for the better".

 

I would rather the objective problem be put forward in a clear and concise way than have the details flagrantly and flamboyantly dramatised for the purposes of notice.

 

So no, I won't cut him a break but only because I fear the way he's going about the agenda at hand, one that I think every reasonably intelligent person in this thread agrees on.

 

I'm not aware of any customer service ticket system or hotline that responds with the following: "We're sorry, but due to the fact that you were not able to articulate the origin of your problem utilizing The King's English, your complaint has been moved to the trash pile. Please try again later when you earn a terminal degree in a field of your choosing. Good day."

 

The "agenda" is simply undeniable. Regardless of the semantics. It will not change Bioware's response to the issue. Which, up until this point, has been lacking.

[Xcore]

Explicit off-topic: have you read a book by Richard Dawkins?

 

Yes, several

[dajinn-]

this thread is a *****torm

[indelible]

Ok, if you disagree with the exaggeration or the formatting/wording/presentation... that is fine and I have absolutely no care for that. All that matters is that this "objective" problem gets resolved... I "personally" believe this to be a heavy enough problem, so much so that I don't see anything as exaggeration.

 

This issue in my view is the reason Rift/LotRO and any other Post-WoW MMO didn't achieve their full potential and successes. Furthermore I believe this to be the #1 reason why WoW is at the point that it is. In this case, I don't see it as an exaggeration...

 

 

So, as long as you recognize the issue, I am perfectly fine with you. If you believe that there is "no issue" or that "only some have it and you do not" then we are at a point of disagreement to which no parallel can be drawn. You might as well declare yourself "Israel" at which point I'll be forced to be "Iran". Please don't force that on me

 

I'm not disagreeing with the problem you are trying to present, or - as someone who's played at a similar level to you *studied signature* - the heavy implications of the problem. It does need to be fixed, and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.

 

I don't think that formatting/wording/presentation matter so much. I do however think that, being as flagrant in the way you present the problem as you were, much more can be taken away from your OP than needs to be taken away, which risks ruining the context and meaning behind the post. As someone who clearly understands the English language to an "above average" degree, you must accept that the nuances can (and will) alter the perception of what you are saying. Simple wording can make a problem seem far bigger or far smaller than it actually is. I fear in this instance it is inflated.

 

And as an aside, I think your choice of countries was... unfortunate... considering current tensions As a metaphor... I fear it doesn't really work too well ;P Enough of the current affairs however.

Edited January 2, 2012 by indelible

[Jauxsi]

Almost 4th thread inc

[jtype_sw]

I'm not disagreeing with the problem you are trying to present, or - as someone who's played at a similar level to you *studied signature* - the heavy implications of the problem. It does need to be fixed, and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.

 

I don't think that formatting/wording/presentation matter so much. I do however think that, being as flagrant in the way you present the problem as you were, much more can be taken away from your OP than needs to be taken away, which risks ruining the context and meaning behind the post. As someone who clearly understands the English language to an "above average" degree, you must accept that the nuances can (and will) alter the perception of what you are saying. Simple wording can make a problem seem far bigger or far smaller than it actually is. I fear in this instance it is inflated.

 

And as an aside, I think your choice of countries was... unfortunate... considering current tensions As a metaphor... I fear it doesn't really work too well ;P Enough of the current affairs however.

 

I understand your incessant need to utilizing your "above average" language skills in moderating Xcore's semantic analysis, but it really is derailing this thread when many more pertinent issues should be being discussed.

Edited January 2, 2012 by jtype_sw

[indelible]

I'm not aware of any customer service ticket system or hotline that responds with the following: "We're sorry, but due to the fact that you were not able to articulate the origin of your problem utilizing The King's English, your complaint has been moved to the trash pile. Please try again later when you earn a terminal degree in a field of your choosing. Good day."

 

The "agenda" is simply undeniable. Regardless of the semantics. It will not change Bioware's response to the issue. Which, up until this point, has been lacking.

 

I don't get why you don't understand the point I'm trying to make here. It's really quite simple.

[Xcore]

I'm not disagreeing with the problem you are trying to present, or - as someone who's played at a similar level to you *studied signature* - the heavy implications of the problem. It does need to be fixed, and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.

 

I don't think that formatting/wording/presentation matter so much. I do however think that, being as flagrant in the way you present the problem as you were, much more can be taken away from your OP than needs to be taken away, which risks ruining the context and meaning behind the post. As someone who clearly understands the English language to an "above average" degree, you must accept that the nuances can (and will) alter the perception of what you are saying. Simple wording can make a problem seem far bigger or far smaller than it actually is. I fear in this instance it is inflated.

 

And as an aside, I think your choice of countries was... unfortunate... considering current tensions As a metaphor... I fear it doesn't really work too well ;P Enough of the current affairs however.

 

 

Hey, I chose the countries specifically for those tensions. Or have Israel and Iran reconciled without me knowing? Must I read more BBC than I already do? I took a few days off.

 

No, I don't disagree... I am being flamboyant perhaps and I am using "strong language". No problems there, not disagreeing. Thats a fine contention and it is simply because I feel "that" strongly about the issue at hand.

 

You may believe its an issue "but not necessarily as big of a deal as I make it out to be". That is fine, as long as it gets resolved. I am happy with the accomplishment of three threads and likely 4,000+ Replies with 200,000+ Views. The goal of raising awareness to this issue has been accomplished and it needs to continue. Until it is properly addressed.

 

Bioware deserves absolutely ZERO slack until then. To give them any slack would be a gross disservice to SW:TOR, Bioware and mostly importantly the MMO Genre.

[Reedful]

this is not going to be fixed. this is an engine problem. the fact that there is an engine period proves that this is something that will be with the game permanently, unless they get a new one. everyone always knocks blizzard for holding games for so long but if this is the alternative, you won't see me complaining again.

 

secondly, somehow wanting to control your character got turned into something only, "hardcore" players want to do - just look at this thread. all these terrible players coming out of the woodwork to say that it isn't a big deal. excuse us, i guess. i should have enjoyed racking up all those dark side points for basically no reason and in lieu of actually controlling what my character does. after all, this is a single player game.

 

i wanted to like this game as much as anybody else, but let's be honest. this isn't going to be resolved ever.

 

wishing something wasn't the new rift doesn't make it not the new rift. plus there's a consumer report specifically stating blizzard timed the release of d3, sc2 expansion and MoP to crush EA.

 

i told all my friends that hadn't decided yet not to buy it, and i won't ever buy another origin/ea/bioware game again. thank your coders.

 

but bioware said it best

 

WE'RE NOT IN AZEROTH ANYMORE

 

eheheheheh

Edited January 2, 2012 by Reedful

[Traumahawk]

...As someone who clearly understands the English language to an "above average" degree, you must accept that the nuances can (and will) alter the perception of what you are saying. Simple wording can make a problem seem far bigger or far smaller than it actually is. I fear in this instance it is inflated.

 

The points you are making would be pertinent, IF player opinion was somehow responsible for the fix, or altered the method by which the fix was implemented. Since it will not affect Bioware's bug squashing "protocols" in any way, I don't see why this is even an issue.

 

Whether I scream "Fire!" or "Help! That building has red and orange tendrils shooting out of the windows and greyish, wispy matter is filling up the insides!", the same objective is reached: the authorities have been notified. Who cares about the delivery?

[Xcore]

With the 4th version of this thread approaching, I'd like to point out that for the past few pages we've been arguing semantics. Which is not bad, it helps put things in perspective but as long as we all agree of the obvious flaws in the current combat design/mechanics.

 

We should carry on discussing the actual issue? I do believe Georg and the Team follow this line of threads page by page. As strongly as I do word my replies at times, I am really just trying to help the game and Georg (even if a few pages back I questioned his Talents indirectly).

[Sneakymcstab]

this is not going to be fixed. this is an engine problem. the fact that there is an engine period proves that this is something that will be with the game permanently, unless they get a new one. everyone always knocks blizzard for holding games for so long but if this is the alternative, you won't see me complaining again.

 

secondly, somehow wanting to control your character got turned into something only, "hardcore" players want to do - just look at this thread. all these terrible players coming out of the woodwork to say that it isn't a big deal. excuse us, i guess. i should have enjoyed racking up all those dark side points for basically no reason and in lieu of actually controlling what my character does. after all, this is a single player game.

 

i wanted to like this game as much as anybody else, but let's be honest. this isn't going to be resolved ever.

 

wishing something wasn't the new rift doesn't make it not the new rift. plus there's a consumer report specifically stating blizzard timed the release of d3, sc2 expansion and MoP to crush EA.

 

i told all my friends that hadn't decided yet not to buy it, and i won't ever buy another origin/ea/bioware game again. thank your coders.

 

but bioware said it best

 

WE'RE NOT IN AZEROTH ANYMORE

 

eheheheheh

 

I don't believe it's an engine problem for a second. It's gonna be a lot of work, and BW has said as much, but I'm confident it's fixable. I just hope it's their #1 priority.

[indelible]

You should really utilize your "above average" language skills in aiding Xcore's threaded responses and correcting his linguistics rather than spending time derailing the thread..

 

I think I've made it pretty clear the problem I have, and I've made it clear in several posts across several pages of this thread. I will continue to do so because I feel it adds needed balance.

 

If saying "I'm sorry, I can see what you're saying and I agree with the fundamental problem at hand but fear you are exaggerating it excessively at times, and I feel that's a bad thing," is not serving some kind of useful purpose (such as bringing some balance to the argument being made, perhaps?)... then I really don't know what else to say. I've also responded to a number of other posts in this thread in an attempt to clarify and balance certain statements.

 

I think my contribution far outweighs whatever it is you're trying to do right now.

[indelible]

I don't believe it's an engine problem for a second. It's gonna be a lot of work, and BW has said as much, but I'm confident it's fixable. I just hope it's their #1 priority.

 

It is more than likely branded as an engine feature.

 

I do believe that Bioware heavily modified the HeroEngine themselves, and they have a close working relationship with the team behind the base engine. It is noted on the website of the HeroEngine that the derivative engine they are using today is far removed from the base engine, so if it is an engine problem then I do not believe it's likely to be as "hard" to resolve as people seem to think, based on the fact that Bioware have already modified the engine extensively anyway.

[jtype_sw]

I think I've made it pretty clear the problem I have, and I've made it clear in several posts across several pages of this thread. I will continue to do so because I feel it adds needed balance.

 

If saying "I'm sorry, I can see what you're saying and I agree with the fundamental problem at hand but fear you are exaggerating it excessively at times, and I feel that's a bad thing," is not serving some kind of useful purpose (such as bringing some balance to the argument being made, perhaps?)... then I really don't know what else to say. I've also responded to a number of other posts in this thread in an attempt to clarify and balance certain statements.

 

I think my contribution far outweighs whatever it is you're trying to do right now.

 

You "think" your contributions outweighs mine, but in actuality, this is not the case as Xcore and others in this thread are much more appreciative of my comments and videos in addressing the nature of this problem, than that of your technical babblings.

Edited January 2, 2012 by jtype_sw

[Reedful]

It is more than likely branded as an engine feature.

 

I do believe that Bioware heavily modified the HeroEngine themselves, and they have a close working relationship with the team behind the base engine. It is noted on the website of the HeroEngine that the derivative engine they are using today is far removed from the base engine, so if it is an engine problem then I do not believe it's likely to be as "hard" to resolve as people seem to think, based on the fact that Bioware have already modified the engine extensively anyway.

 

and the fact that they sold it to us in this state somehow bolsters your confidence because...?

 

"hey, sorry that car we sold you didn't work - don't worry, though. I practically built it. I'm working on getting this fixed for you sometime in the future which is rough, because it's sort of a complicated issue that I can't explain to you.. on account of you being dumb and all."

 

that's an official bioware quote by the way

[Sneakymcstab]

It is more than likely branded as an engine feature.

 

I do believe that Bioware heavily modified the HeroEngine themselves, and they have a close working relationship with the team behind the base engine. It is noted on the website of the HeroEngine that the derivative engine they are using today is far removed from the base engine, so if it is an engine problem then I do not believe it's likely to be as "hard" to resolve as people seem to think, based on the fact that Bioware have already modified the engine extensively anyway.

 

Exactly, they need to tweak their animation system and improve responsiveness. It's probably a lot of work to get things right, unless they're willing to sacrifice the cinematicness (which is probably not even a word) of their combat system and just allow animations to clip when the situation calls for it.

I believe that's the root of the problem, the function and actual animations of abilities are too closely tied together, leading to delays where they're not expected.

[indelible]

"hey, sorry that car we sold you didn't work - don't worry, though. I practically built it. I'm working on getting this fixed for you sometime in the future which is rough, because it's sort of a complicated issue that I can't explain to you.. on account of you being dumb and all."

 

That's a really bad analogy.

 

Software can be altered and patched. Bioware may have felt that what they were doing was a good thing, and now they may have changed their minds. They can deploy changes to the game that will resolve the problem... Furthermore the engine is a proprietary solution and we are unaware of their contractual obligations with the team behind the base engine, and/or their internal policy regarding the discussion of the technical aspect of their software on a public forum. There's a little thing called Trade Secrets, which I'm sure is applicable here.

[SnakeBites]

One of the first things i noticed whilst playing this game is the ability delay. At first i thought it was my connection. Everything just feels clunky.

 

Can you imagine if CoD, CSS, or Battlefield had any ability delay? With grenades or reloading. Gamebreaking. There's no way they would be as popular.

 

This is basically a deal breaker for me & it looks like i'm not the only one. I'll give Bioware some time to see if this issues gets fixed. If not, then it's time to move on.

 

No amount of story, voice acting & content will make an MMO very successful if the combat is unresponsive.

Edited January 2, 2012 by SnakeBites

[WalrusParadise]

Is this happening for all classes?

 

I haven't noticed it to much on my Bounty Hunter, but I've noticed it so badly on my Marauder that I decided to just quit her. (Insane ability display, abilities resetting themselves, etc.)

 

I'm just going to re-roll again and hope they fix this, although it will probably take months, and at that point it'll be too late.

[MrTijger]

One of the first things i noticed whilst playing this game is the ability delay. At first i thought it was my connection. Everything just feels clunky. Don't even get my started on PvP healing.

 

Can you imagine if CoD, CSS, or Battlefield had any ability delay? With grenades or reloading. Gamebreaking. There's no way they would be as popular.

 

This is basically a deal breaker for me & it looks like i'm not the only one. I'll give Bioware some time to see if this issues gets fixed. If not, then it's time to move on.

 

Uh.....hint, this is not an FPS.

Edited January 2, 2012 by MrTijger