Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Wazooty]

so this finally happened to me once.

 

i was mashing just to see, and it occured.

 

so incase anyone reading is not sure, stop mashing.

long term this needs a solution asap anyway. but short term so as not to go insane; stop mashing the buttons.

 

We mash because it doesn't go off when it should...ie when were not mashing.

 

So no, stop giving terrible advice.

[Khoranth]

so this finally happened to me once.

 

i was mashing just to see, and it occured.

 

so incase anyone reading is not sure, stop mashing.

long term this needs a solution asap anyway. but short term so as not to go insane; stop mashing the buttons.

 

So basically you are saying, don't do PVP or challenging PVE, or any other content where you would need to urgently press buttons?

 

So treat this like a single player story game, and hope they fix it by the time i get to level 50.

[BoodaBaby]

JG definitely suffers from this...it ia already hard for players to take a DPS specced guardian seriously from people donw playing it but my dps takes a hit due to this problem. hopefully this matter is adresses asap.

[Xcore]

<ahem> reminds xcore of her post on the second portion of this thread, from an rper's perspective ... which is reposted above, this page.

 

*hugs*

 

Thank you for re-posting this and I agree wholeheartedly with it all. I am not saying RPers are bad in any way or anything at all... I am merely suggesting that an RPer "could" potentially be someone who does not really require responsiveness.

 

However, having said this... looking back at your post of the importance of Responsiveness in RP as well.. I completely retract my statement and feel more educated...

 

 

Responsiveness = Immersion = Forefront of good RP (I presume, I am not an RPer at heart, apologies).

 

 

I will edit out that part but I wish you keep this post intact to showcase my education on this!

[Pestwulf]

This is likely a silly question, but as the OP requested rating the thread...how do you do that?

 

I can not find any controls while logged in that will allow me to rate, or vote up a thread?

[Tebbo]

We mash because it doesn't go off when it should...ie when were not mashing.

 

So no, stop giving terrible advice.

 

uh. alright man, except it works totally fine for me and goes off when gcd is done. always. unless of course I just decide to mash a button long before gcd is even finished.

 

I think you mash because you want to get the earliest timing possible or to avoid dropped inputs.

 

not because it doesn't go off. you don't notice it not going off when you just tap the button once and then start mashing. you just mash from the start. which, from every experience i had, contributes to the issue. in conclusion, stop mashing and you'll find it improves things. doesn't fix things, but certainly improves things.

 

Edit: I play pvp too guys. nice try though. the issue is a combination of factors. one is mashing. if you want to improve the situation for yourself in the short term, stop mashing

Edited December 30, 2011 by Tebbo

[Khoranth]

uh. alright man, except it works totally fine for me and goes off when gcd is done. always. unless of course I just decide to mash a button long before gcd is even finished.

 

I think you mash because you want to get the earliest timing possible or to avoid dropped inputs.

 

not because it doesn't go off. you don't notice it not going off when you just tap the button once and then start mashing. you just mash from the start. which, from every experience i had, contributes to the issue. in conclusion, stop mashing and you'll find it improves things. doesn't fix things, but certainly improves things.

 

Incorrect.

 

I mash because when I am on my sage healing in a warzone, and a few melee zerg me, i get stunned, I want to get my force wave off IMMEDIATELY.

 

So, while stunned, i hit tenacity, I EXPECT TO INSTANTLY BREAK STUN, that does NOT happen, so I mash tenacity until im out of the stun.

 

THEN i hit force wave, expecting to knock the melee beating my face in away, THEN IT DOES NOT HAPPEN so i mash force wave until i finally see my character jump into the air, so i know the animation started and 2 seconds later it will actually work.

[Xcore]

This is likely a silly question, but as the OP requested rating the thread...how do you do that?

 

I can not find any controls while logged in that will allow me to rate, or vote up a thread?

 

When you reply, in that same window before hitting submit, scroll down there is a "Rate Thread" drop-down menu.

 

Tyvm

[Isende]

Thank you for re-posting this and I agree wholeheartedly with it all. I am not saying RPers are bad in any way or anything at all... I am merely suggesting that an RPer "could" potentially be someone who does not really require responsiveness.

 

However, having said this... looking back at your post of the importance of Responsiveness in RP as well.. I completely retract my statement and feel more educated...

 

 

Responsiveness = Immersion = Forefront of good RP (I presume, I am not an RPer at heart, apologies).

 

 

I will edit out that part but I wish you keep this post intact to showcase my education on this!

 

lol it's all good -- but look at it thisaways:

 

my jedi consular sage healer has worked HARD to train, to learn, to better herself and be a better asset to the republic. she has a gift for healing, and so that's where she devotes a great deal of time. however, at times, she finds her mind insisting she cast THIS spell, while her fingers are still stuck casting the LAST spell. this causes the poor jedi to doubt herself, and as we know, doubt can lead to the dark side!!!

[Wazooty]

uh. alright man, except it works totally fine for me and goes off when gcd is done. always. unless of course I just decide to mash a button long before gcd is even finished.

 

I think you mash because you want to get the earliest timing possible or to avoid dropped inputs.

 

not because it doesn't go off. you don't notice it not going off when you just tap the button once and then start mashing. you just mash from the start. which, from every experience i had, contributes to the issue. in conclusion, stop mashing and you'll find it improves things. doesn't fix things, but certainly improves things.

 

Edit: I play pvp too guys. nice try though. the issue is a combination of factors. one is mashing. if you want to improve the situation for yourself in the short term, stop mashing

 

I think you don't understand the problem this thread is expressing. At all. Your opinion is very very very uneducated.

 

Keep pretending though.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Wazooty

[Xcore]

uh. alright man, except it works totally fine for me and goes off when gcd is done. always. unless of course I just decide to mash a button long before gcd is even finished.

 

I think you mash because you want to get the earliest timing possible or to avoid dropped inputs.

not because it doesn't go off. you don't notice it not going off when you just tap the button once and then start mashing. you just mash from the start. which, from every experience i had, contributes to the issue. in conclusion, stop mashing and you'll find it improves things. doesn't fix things, but certainly improves things.

 

Edit: I play pvp too guys. nice try though. the issue is a combination of factors. one is mashing. if you want to improve the situation for yourself in the short term, stop mashing

 

NO

 

Because, this is "adapting" to a FLAW -- STOP ADAPTING TO FLAWS. I know you meant it well but this is flat out bad advice...

 

Highlighted in Green: This is a valid thing to do and required in High End Competitive situations of PvE and PvP.

[Xcore]

lol it's all good -- but look at it thisaways:

 

my jedi consular sage healer has worked HARD to train, to learn, to better herself and be a better asset to the republic. she has a gift for healing, and so that's where she devotes a great deal of time. however, at times, she finds her mind insisting she cast THIS spell, while her fingers are still stuck casting the LAST spell. this causes the poor jedi to doubt herself, and as we know, doubt can lead to the dark side!!!

 

Perhaps if you wrote the OP in the same fashion Daniel Erickson would've been spearheading this one all the way to the finish line!

 

 

Well put, thank you again... I agree completely.

[brevous]

Stopped reading after that statement. EQ1 did not fail...

 

I played EQ from vanilla through planes of power, raided hardcore for several years. The game was much slower paced, but there was none of this lag or ability delay. Timing was huge in EQ1. And the funny thing is, the game is still going after, what, 19 expansions? People are still subbing to it even though EQ2 is F2P.

 

If I could have anything in an MMO, it would be the experience I had in original EQ. Some of the experiences I had in that game were absolutely mind blowing, and nothing has ever come close since. Going to the plane of hate as a nekkid lvl54 rogue to get that damn book for my epic was one of the most exhilarating experiences I have ever had. Going on corpse runs after a wipe, and dragging 5 bodies back to the surface so we could regroup and try to kill the boss again. Oh boy. Nostalgia.

[Tebbo]

Incorrect.

 

I mash because when I am on my sage healing in a warzone, and a few melee zerg me, i get stunned, I want to get my force wave off IMMEDIATELY.

 

So, while stunned, i hit tenacity, I EXPECT TO INSTANTLY BREAK STUN, that does NOT happen, so I mash tenacity until im out of the stun.

 

THEN i hit force wave, expecting to knock the melee beating my face in away, THEN IT DOES NOT HAPPEN so i mash force wave until i finally see my character jump into the air, so i know the animation started and 2 seconds later it will actually work.

 

that sounds like a mess. I haven't experienced quite that situation. when I use resolute it just works for me.

 

so ok, I can see what you mean about that situation. as far as chaining abilities and animation stuttering though, from all my experience and things ive read in this thread from others, its related to mashing the keys. or i should say, mashing the keys compounds the other issues enough to make animations stutter and not go off correctly.

 

it's not like i work for bioware or something. or don't want them to improve this part of the game. i'm just saying what works for me and what doesn't because some one might read it, try it, and find it makes things much more bearable for now.

 

edit: its not adapting to a flaw....its adapting to gcd. when I use abilities i hit the next ability I want usually slightly before gcd is over. i'm not avoiding mashing, you just don't need to because you can buffer your next ability inside the tail end of the cooldown of gcd.

 

fair enough though.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Tebbo

[brevous]

Button mashing should not be necessary, although in many games it is. When you're raiding and in a 2 or 3+ minute battle (not to mention the 10+ minute ones), you need to stay in cooldown at all times, make 100% of the time efficient. So, either a skill queuing system, or buttonmashing is needed. Skill queuing is sloppy in this game, but would be much better if the delays were fixed. Queuing + delays is very cumbersome.

[Isende]

Perhaps if you wrote the OP in the same fashion Daniel Erickson would've been spearheading this one all the way to the finish line!

 

 

Well put, thank you again... I agree completely.

 

see, though, that's the whole thing. i didn't KNOW what was causing these issues. i knew it existed in rift and am a good enough player to find workarounds, but there was still that disconnect. fortunately, again, rift HAS largely done work to fix the problem, but it is apparently a multi-issue problem, and it's ongoing. playing rift, right now, is less responsive than wow, more responsive than swtor. but i remember when i first started playing it, and then playing swtor in beta, i kept thinking, "is there something wrong with my keyboard?"

 

so i'd have just continued on with all these doubts, were it not for someone ELSE cohesively saying, "hey, this is a problem, this is the description of the problem, and we want it fixed because we'd like to see this game succeed!!!"

[Xcore]

Button mashing should not be necessary, although in many games it is. When you're raiding and in a 2 or 3+ minute battle (not to mention the 10+ minute ones), you need to stay in cooldown at all times, make 100% of the time efficient. So, either a skill queuing system, or buttonmashing is needed. Skill queuing is sloppy in this game, but would be much better if the delays were fixed. Queuing + delays is very cumbersome.

 

Skill Queuing is not good, it impedes responsiveness unless it can be stopped by the mashing of a new ability.

 

You need to be able to react instantly to changes in environment within .5 seconds, no question about it.

[Bakarn]

I have still yet to find the source of this issue, nor actually come up with a definitive situation in which it always occurs.

 

I still think that people are misreading it. I still think some of them are looking for animations and NOT looking at actual effects. The ability where it seems to occur is Riposte, which is notable for being one of the worst abilities in the Jedi Guardian arsenal.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Bakarn

[jtype_sw]

@Xcore

 

Firstly, great job on identifying a key and crucial issue which NEEDS to be addressed.

 

However, I ask of you to please edit your OP to put emphasis on the abilities jamming up as shown in

You have posted it under "Ability Delay", but it is in actuality not delay, but rather incessant jamming and resetting that occurs when multiple buttons are pressed in a rapid frequency. THIS NEEDS TO BE CLEARLY IDENTIFIED AND ADDRESSED.

 

I can deal with animations being delayed and whatnot, but I CANNOT deal with animations jamming like such.

Edited December 30, 2011 by jtype_sw

[Ghulthar]

I notice this responsiveness problem a lot with riposte (jedi guardian). I tend to spam the button when it procs, and it seems to want to reset the cast with every button press (even though it is supposed to be instant cast). I have also been interrupted when casting other instant casts, which can be frustrating when they have a long cooldown. This is all from single player PvE experience btw.

[brevous]

Skill Queuing is not good, it impedes responsiveness unless it can be stopped by the mashing of a new ability.

 

You need to be able to react instantly to changes in environment within .5 seconds, no question about it.

 

I retract my statement. You are correct, in an ideal environment skill queuing is not needed at all.

 

On another note:

 

These devs really need to come out and do some damage control. They need to really touch on these major issues. They need to tell us that they understand what we're saying, and tell us what they plan to do about it. Truthfully, I am having fun with the game, but just like I have these forums open, I also have the EVE online forums open, because I am considering going back there instead. I know that no company is perfect, but when your forums are full of real criticisms, something needs to be done. I know that whenever I am interested in playing a new game, first thing I do is look at the general forum to see player consensus. I would bet money that many many people are coming in here, seeing all this negativity with no adequate response and running for the hills.

[Xcore]

@Xcore

 

Firstly, great job on identifying a key and crucial issue which NEEDS to be addressed.

 

However, I ask of you to please edit your OP to put emphasis on the abilities jamming up as shown in

You have posted it under "Ability Delay", but it is in actuality not delay, but rather incessant jamming and resetting that occurs when multiple buttons are pressed in a rapid frequency. THIS NEEDS TO BE CLEARLY IDENTIFIED AND ADDRESSED.

 

I can deal with animations being delayed and whatnot, but I CANNOT deal with animations jamming like such.

 

It is part of the overall issue of "Responsiveness" to input. Believe me this is also widely understood and I am sure Georg is very aware.

[noequity]

I'd like to point out a thread that discusses how the timing issue affects the trooper: FULL AUTO AND MORTAR VOLLEY: Blatantly Broken

 

To wrap it up: Mortar Volley is channeled for 3 secs and releases 3 mortar rounds for aoe damage. Now instead of releasing 3 rounds during 3 secs the game mechanics is such that no rounds are released for a stunning 2 secs worth of animation (approximately). The last round actually fires roughly 1 sec after the animation is over.

 

If I had a credit for every time I prematurely aborted Mortar Volley after the bar indicated the end of channeling but before the third round is fired I'd be a wealthy trooper, indeed.

 

(Note: I didn't read all of the thousand+ responses, so if this has been pointed out I humbly beg your forgiveness.)

[cozert]

they better fix this soon...

[jtype_sw]

It is part of the overall issue of "Responsiveness" to input. Believe me this is also widely understood and I am sure Georg is very aware.

 

Excellent to hear.

 

I myself have created a few threads in Open Beta regarding these issues. but was alas shot down by the provincially-minded individuals who can see no criticism of this game.

 

I am truly thankful that this is now a widely recognized issue, which must be fixed ASAP if BioWare wants to draw in, as well as keep many of their subscribers such as me, my friends and my guildmates.

 

Again Xcore, thank you for your time, effort, and energy invested into identifying these crucial and gamebreaking issues. Your vanguard will truly have a immense influence on this game's success, or if neglected, failure.

 

Edited December 30, 2011 by jtype_sw