Saboteur

[QuinlanSaathis]

Not the first time I have posted this but its getting worse.

 

it is becoming increasingly harder to justify my characters continuing the traitor arc.

I RP my characters and anyone that is going traitor has strong convictions or in some cases sees a lot of profit or power in the choice, however these characters are marginalized and treated as nothing more than lackeys and this won't stand.

 

I realize that in-game my options are somewhat limited but I have over 40 characters and I can just park these traitors till it becomes viable to play them again, but I don't want to do that.

 

This is my plea to Bioware to do something meaningful for these characters.

[Elessara]

Not only do I find it hard to justify my characters going down the saboteur path, I also find it hard to justify the side you're sabotaging continuing to trust you. I mean seriously, how many times do you have to screw up, fail, or just do badly for a lightbulb to finally go off in their heads?

[Suzsi]

Not only do I find it hard to justify my characters going down the saboteur path, I also find it hard to justify the side you're sabotaging continuing to trust you. I mean seriously, how many times do you have to screw up, fail, or just do badly for a lightbulb to finally go off in their heads?

 

Or at least for them to stop asking the Alliance for help. They must be pretty despirite to keep coming to my agent with missions. Loving it though really, especially blaming everyone else for her 'failings' but my hope is for her to be a fully fledged republic supporter soon!

[Ardrossan]

So, this is just how i've done it, YMMV: I have 8 characters involved in endgame stuff, one for each class. Each one has gone through kotfe/et/traitor/onslaught etc. No skips. 2 from each faction have signed up as saboteurs, 4 in total.

 

Onslaught was kinda interesting because it had the option to be a saboteur sure, but are you a committed saboteur or are you just phoning it in? If you don't sabotage stuff in Onslaught, especially during the FP, your defector side will demand an explanation. You can either apologize and keep sabotaging or kill the contact people (NR-02 or Balkar). So that's what 1 of my saboteurs (smuggler) did, now I only have 3. 2 of them are still committed, the third one still screws up, that is, she (BH) ignores the saboteur options.

 

The two committed saboteurs I have, an agent and a JC, sabotage kinda wrecked their characters. It's especially unnatural for the JC since it involves helping the Sith kill Jedi. But I'm willing to play it through to the end, although I can't imagine it will be a happy ending.

 

I have 53 characters. Doing this for every one of them would be a terrible idea imo. I'm quite happy to keep the majority at pre-kotfe story, when comps still got influence from quests and had interesting things to say on planets.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I have 7 traitors

 

1. Light Side Sith - She is disgusted by the actions of the Sith and wants nothing more than to join the Jedi, she will stick it out till the end, she does not feel marganilzed and is willing to do her part.
    
   
2. Dark Side Jedi - Wants power, wants a seat on the Dark Council, will not be treated as a pawn, won't play the game much longer.
    
   
3. Dark Side Smuggler - She is after profit, at this point I have no idea if she will stick or not, depends where the most money is.
    
   
4. Dark Side Sage - Idealist, believes the Jedi are fundamentally wrong in their teachings and wants to join the Sith, will probably stick it out.
    
   
5. Dark Side Smuggler - (yes another one ) He is a blood-thirsty maniac wants to join the Imps for more opportunities to kill, will go where there is the most blood.
    
   
6. Light Side Agent - Doesn't like being used that is why she tried to defect in the first place and if she will defect again if she feels it necessary, however she is a good person and will put up with a lot to stop the Sith.
    
   
7. Dark Side Inquisitor - This one is different, she went the traitor route to kill as many of the Dark Council as she could then turned on her handler and killed him, she is now back in the Empire fully.
   

[JediKamo]

Of my characters that did Onslaught:

1. LS Jedi Sentinel: is siding with the Republic
   
2. DS Jedi Guardian: saboteur. lusts for power and sees the Sith as benefiting that. Would go over if the game allowed it.
   
3. LS Sith: Saboteur who thinks that the Empire is wrong and must be taken down
   
4. LS Bounty Hunter: Saboteur. Thinks that the Empire is wrong. Thinks using the Alliance to hinder the Sith War effort is the best way to go.
   
5. LS Smuggler: loyal to the Republic.
   

 

With my remaining 8 alts, I can see LS Imps and DS Pubs going saboteur… except for the Jedi Shadow, who I think of as holding to a destructive view of patriotism. The DS Imps and LS Pubs will stay loyal.

[RameiArashi]

My first saboteur.: LS Imperial Agent chose to become a Double Agent for the Republic years ago, after seeing how the Empire treats its most loyal people.

 

My second saboteur: DS Jedi Shadow, considers the Jedi to be weak given how easily he took down Jedi Masters.

 

All my Republic Saboteurs are darkside. My Imperial Saboteurs are mostly lightside but are a coupple darkside.

[ceryxp]

I think there are a couple issues at play when it comes to the saboteur storyline.

 

First, story updates come slowly. If we count Ossus as the start of the saboteur story then this has been going on, in real time, since 11 December, 2018. That is almost 2.5 years. True, in-game time has not progressed quite as much as per the timeline posts that Charles Boyd has made, but in-game wise it has still been over a year.

 

Second, the last few updates have done nothing to progress the saboteur storyline. I have yet to play Secrets of the Enclave. I have heard that there are some saboteur elements in the story, but there is no real progression of the saboteur arc. The last real bit of saboteur story was in Onslaught; released 22 October, 2019.

 

I understand and accept that Covid-19 impacted content releases and that the stories for Echoes of Oblivion, Spirit of Vengeance, and Secrets of the Enclave, even though they were released over a year after Onslaught, are compressed in time and, chronologically, occur not long after Onslaught. But in real time there has been a big gap and it feels like forever ago that we started this saboteur story with no real progression in all this time.

 

I agree that something needs to happen. Perhaps the big stuff to come with the 10th anniversary is 7.0. Perhaps it is just a big story update. I am hoping that before this year is out that we will see the saboteur story advanced. I would love it if something big happened with the storyline, such as we were discovered, but even something as simple as a cutscene with our handler acknowledging that it is time to start working on an exit strategy would help to move the story forward.

 

I would love it if Imp saboteurs were able to rescue Gnost-Dural. One thing I think they definitely need to do is to start giving saboteurs different missions than loyalists. Especially if we are discovered.

[Elessara]

They honestly can't keep the saboteur thing going forever because the longer it goes on the more ridiculously unbelievable it becomes. But I also don't know how they might pull off an actual switch in sides. There are a lot of technical issues with the planets/heroics/flashpoints/dailies always locked in the past.

[RameiArashi]

There is still a lot they could do. See my thread on having companions find out. At some point surely the Imperial Saboteur is going to betray Major Anri and the Republic Saboteur Tau and Arn. Actually I think the Saboteur who did not tell Tau about Arn going after the slavers should be able to recruit Arn since he's not close to Tau,

 

 

Some people think Rivix is suspecting the Imperial Saboteur but it seems to me Rivix suspects everyone including Kovos.

 

Some people think Rivix regardless of whether you are loyal or a traitor is actually trying to take over the Alliance himself. Which means his eventual demise at our hands. And then the Emperor/Empress will deny he was acting on orders.

 

I'd like to see the choices each class made after Onslaight actually have consequences. Both loyalist and sabotuer. What happened when the Republic forces at saboteur's suggestion attacked the Huttt's vs loyalist suggestion to bribe them? What happened when saboteur agent said to report Xarian for sending agents to infiltrate the Hand vs using them to send false info back to the Sith?

Edited May 2, 2021 by RameiArashi

[JediKamo]

 

Some people think Rivix is suspecting the Imperial Saboteur but it seems to me Rivix suspects everyone including Kovos.

 

Some people think Rivix regardless of whether you are loyal or a traitor is actually trying to take over the Alliance himself. Which means his eventual demise at our hands. And then the Emperor/Empress will deny he was acting on orders.

 

I'd like to see the choices each class made after Onslaight actually have consequences. Both loyalist and sabotuer. What happened when the Republic forces at saboteur's suggestion attacked the Huttt's vs loyalist suggestion to bribe them? What happened when saboteur agent said to report Xarian for sending agents to infiltrate the Hand vs using them to send false info back to the Sith?

I think of Rivx as being like one of the Soviet era “political officers” who were supposed to be watching for suspect loyalty. So, on the Imp side, I think he’s likely to be the one who will be a threat in rooting out the saboteur. I’m not sure who the Pub equivalent would be in that role

 

I definitely agree there should be consequences.

[JediKamo]

One other point I think should be considered. If the character is allowed by the game to defect, there should be the consequences of the betrayer will never be fully trusted. So that will always be a potential story point

[Ardrossan]

So, on the Imp side, I think he’s likely to be the one who will be a threat in rooting out the saboteur. I’m not sure who the Pub equivalent would be in that role

 

I think Tau or Arn best suit that role. The Republic doesn't have the same level of paranoia as the Empire, so rather than a political officer I think the rep saboteur will be found out through their interaction with these characters. I don't think Arn will go DS as some players think, I think saboteurs will be given the option or even ordered by their handler to recruit him and he'll resist / go to Tau or just become a catalyst to expose the saboteur.

 

I think there might be a false positive in that setup though, if you aren't a saboteur but you are DS and you've been screwing with Tau and Arn's relationship all the way through, maybe you'll fall into the same trap and get accused of being the saboteur when you're just a DS psycho.

[RameiArashi]

That would be a neat twist, the DS loyalist accused of being spy and saboteur.