You really couldn't fit one more Seasons token into the rewards?

[robertthebard]

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree with you mostly, you can't give away everything, but the s/h is something that should be in range of F2P too, of course, if the tokens do carry over, than all is well, they'll still be able to get the s/h, just a little later than subs, but if the tokens reset, to me, that is a little unfair.

 

Since we don't know how that works yet, lighting bonfires and gathering the pitchforks and torches is a bit premature.

[demotivator]

Except not everyone is as lucky as us to be able to afford a sub, or as old as us to have our own money, etc.

There are valid reason why people can't sub.

They probably should have made it 8 tokens for everyone over the season, then the extra 7 for subs.

Everyone gets the s/h while the subs get the extra.

 

I was there during DvL event, I was a sub during KOTFE/KOTET so I got all the companions and rewards that this season offers. As a long time sub and I am not alone in this boat, GS tokens offer nothing new but the strongholds.

 

This is all subs will really get with tokens, there is no "extra" to get for us as you put it. So if F2P were also getting the strongholds (or at the same rate if tokens carry over the next season, which I doubt) there would be no difference at all between F2P and subs.

Edited April 30, 2021 by demotivator

[DarkTergon]

Since we don't know how that works yet, lighting bonfires and gathering the pitchforks and torches is a bit premature.

 

no ones lighting fires yet, just going through possibilities. As they haven't explained it yet, there is no harm in talking through stuff.

[robertthebard]

no ones lighting fires yet, just going through possibilities. As they haven't explained it yet, there is no harm in talking through stuff.

 

Here's a rich one for ya': So I got two objectives to squash bugs today, one on Alderaan, and one on Balmorra. Since I'd done the Balmorra one twice this week already, I thought I'd go to Alderaan first. About the time it got crowded, I looked to see what I had left, and both objectives were counting down at the same time. Between the log in, and that, I unlocked two levels this morning, in about 20 minutes.

[DarkTergon]

Here's a rich one for ya': So I got two objectives to squash bugs today, one on Alderaan, and one on Balmorra. Since I'd done the Balmorra one twice this week already, I thought I'd go to Alderaan first. About the time it got crowded, I looked to see what I had left, and both objectives were counting down at the same time. Between the log in, and that, I unlocked two levels this morning, in about 20 minutes.

 

That's interesting, maybe it's bugged (ok bad pun...lol) I haven't gotten them together, but it's nice to know, until they 'fix' it...lol

Edited April 30, 2021 by DarkTergon

[Ffin]

it's a disgrace that F2P are being shafted like that over the s/h

 

Disgrace? Shafted? You pay zero and still get something but not everything. The sense of entitlement is strong with this one.

[DarkTergon]

/snip

 

if you bothered reading everything instead of trying to troll, you'd realise what I was talking about. Maybe that's asking too much of you /shrug

Edited April 30, 2021 by DarkTergon

[robertthebard]

That's interesting, maybe it's bugged (ok bad pun...lol) I haven't gotten them together, but it's nice to know, until they 'fix' it...lol

 

I can't be sure if it's working as intended or not, but it was interesting. It's going to take me about a month to get all the bug guts off my boots though.

[DarkTergon]

I can't be sure if it's working as intended or not, but it was interesting. It's going to take me about a month to get all the bug guts off my boots though.

 

brings up another interesting point, if it's not bugged, can you go kill 20 of one type on a planet, then go kill others on a different, etc. As long as they are the named bugs, and planets of course. Would make doing heroics more interesting, and you can vary the slaughter

[robertthebard]

brings up another interesting point, if it's not bugged, can you go kill 20 of one type on a planet, then go kill others on a different, etc. As long as they are the named bugs, and planets of course. Would make doing heroics more interesting, and you can vary the slaughter

 

It worked across factions yesterday. I did them all on Balmorra though. However, with what happened this morning, I'd almost bet that it will count, since they counted down both objectives. Given how crowded the Pub side is on Balmorra, that would be nice.

[Ardrossan]

The shaft would be to everyone when the game folded.

Your idea that the company- that needs to pay its workers, rent offices, buy equipment etc- should give players everything for free is what is flawed. If that happened the game would be dead before you could blink - then no one could enjoy any of it.

 

I don't do ops or PVP so you're assuming a lot by assuming I even care how many are in there. I care that the game can continue so we all can keep playing it.

 

Please quote where I said BW should give players everything for free. Can you find it? No, because it's a STRAWMAN. Because forum elitists like yourself raise it as an imaginary argument every time as an excuse not to give F2Pers anything.

 

Oh, you don't pvp or do group activities? Well it's a good thing that it's not about YOU. It's what we contribute to the GAME, not how we benefit you personally.

 

JFC, the entitlement in this forum is unreal. If it were up to you, there would be no F2P, am I right? But it is not up to you, it is up to BW and they decided a long time ago to do it this way, so I find it pretty reprehensible that you keep thinking that you're defending the game and its employees when it was THEIR DECISION to create F2P in the first place.

 

And again, I have spent money on this game and subbed for it before in the past. Whether I do now or in the future though, isn't any of your business nor is it your business to denigrate players so you can feel better about your status as a subscriber.

[Ardrossan]

The scheme that the devs chose for Galactic Command and F2P and Preferred players is pretty apparent.

 

They heavily encourage them to subscribe during the final fifth month that a Season is running so that the players can gobble up all the Cartel Coins and tokens that they have passed when climbing the levels and that are hanging there like the forbidden fruit. They even specifically mention that this is possible in the article that introduced Galactic Seasons to us.

 

I'm pretty sure that they expect to get a sharp increase in subscriptions every five months from now on that instantly drops again right after that month. I'm certain that they also plan their release strategy of new content after this cycle as well and we won't get major updates during that fifth month.

 

Yeah, and tbh it's such a shameless strategy that it's pretty lulzy to me that anyone is trying to simp for BW's subscription model. They are effectively saying - as they have done on several previous occasions - that people who sub over the long term are not valued, otherwise they would not give everyone who subbed at the end all the bonuses of people who were paying for the game the whole time.

 

But then again, that is WHY these arguments exist imo. Because some subs feel cheated that their recurring sub is not being valued, so they have to compare themselves to F2P using the same tired metaphors over and over again. The bad guy here is not F2P freeloaders, it's pretty obviously BW.

[Phazonfreak]

Yeah, and tbh it's such a shameless strategy that it's pretty lulzy to me that anyone is trying to simp for BW's subscription model. They are effectively saying - as they have done on several previous occasions - that people who sub over the long term are not valued, otherwise they would not give everyone who subbed at the end all the bonuses of people who were paying for the game the whole time.

 

You forget one thing though. The four months that you are not subbed will get you only half of the 4-day Login points each week, meaning that you will advance significantly slower than subscribers and need to do the weekly priority objectives to stay even or spend credits/cartel coins to catch up.

 

But then again, that is WHY these arguments exist imo. Because some subs feel cheated that their recurring sub is not being valued, so they have to compare themselves to F2P using the same tired metaphors over and over again. The bad guy here is not F2P freeloaders, it's pretty obviously BW.

 

I don't see a bad guy here anywhere. Only a gaming company that wants to make as much money as possible with limited resources trying to navigate the limits of the players. And players that can decide for themselves whether they want to subscribe, spend some money on the game or not.

 

I think the main problem here is attributing moralistic views to a luxury entertainment item. This is not a charity, it's a product plain and simple.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Suzsi]

Please quote where I said BW should give players everything for free. Can you find it? No, because it's a STRAWMAN. Because forum elitists like yourself raise it as an imaginary argument every time as an excuse not to give F2Pers anything.

 

Oh, you don't pvp or do group activities? Well it's a good thing that it's not about YOU. It's what we contribute to the GAME, not how we benefit you personally.

 

JFC, the entitlement in this forum is unreal. If it were up to you, there would be no F2P, am I right? But it is not up to you, it is up to BW and they decided a long time ago to do it this way, so I find it pretty reprehensible that you keep thinking that you're defending the game and its employees when it was THEIR DECISION to create F2P in the first place.

 

And again, I have spent money on this game and subbed for it before in the past. Whether I do now or in the future though, isn't any of your business nor is it your business to denigrate players so you can feel better about your status as a subscriber.

 

Yes, the entitlement is unreal. Imagine demanding more free stuff after already being gifted hours of enjoyment for nothing..

[Alssaran]

Please quote where I said BW should give players everything for free. Can you find it? No, because it's a STRAWMAN.

 

I really can't stand this argument anymore.

 

No, you technically didn't ask for everything. But what was asked for is among one of the best and most enticing rewards in this entire shindig. Strongholds are usually front and center of community requests and are heavily asked for. This is (most likely) the reason it is gated in the first place - they took the most anticipated reward to entice you to subscribe, even if just for a single month to claim all the rewards after you're done.

 

This is Bioware identifying which reward is most likely to draw the most people in and using it, and I for one don't blame them for doing it. If you finish the season as a F2P player and pay $15 once, you get all the subscriber rewards. That's 4k CC, the tokens for the stronghold, and all the other rewards in the subscriber track. 4k alone is worth far more than the $15 they ask for.

 

The stronghold is among the most enticing rewards of this thing for long-term subscribers. Saying that should be free is literally saying one of the best rewards should be handed out free.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Alssaran

[Ardrossan]

Yes, the entitlement is unreal. Imagine demanding more free stuff after already being gifted hours of enjoyment for nothing..

 

If your sub was actually valuable to you, you wouldn't need to jerk your e-peen at F2P and write long posts about how we don't deserve anything because in a restaurant blah blah blah. You would just be happy for the value you get instead of having to constantly compare what you pay to others.

[Ardrossan]

I really can't stand this argument anymore.

 

This is Bioware identifying which reward is most likely to draw the most people in and using it, and I for one don't blame them for doing it. If you finish the season as a F2P player and pay $15 once, you get all the subscriber rewards. That's 4k CC, the tokens for the stronghold, and all the other rewards in the subscriber track. 4k alone is worth far more than the $15 they ask for.

 

There is no 'technically'. I have never said F2P should get the same rewards as a sub, not even by inference. I said they should have the CHANCE to earn eight tokens but with a much smaller margin for error. If you miss a few days and don't get a token, it's not that big a deal, because you'll be getting 15 by the end. If F2P had the chance to get 8, but they missed one, too bad for them, pay a sub.

 

So to me, the level of vitriol against this idea, people blaming F2P when it's BW that created the system where a one-time sub gets you all the rewards, THAT'S the problem. That's what you should be complaining about. But subs on this forum seem to recognize that there is no point complaining to BW because they will just steamroll over everything. F2P is a much more convenient target.

[robertthebard]

There is no 'technically'. I have never said F2P should get the same rewards as a sub, not even by inference. I said they should have the CHANCE to earn eight tokens but with a much smaller margin for error. If you miss a few days and don't get a token, it's not that big a deal, because you'll be getting 15 by the end. If F2P had the chance to get 8, but they missed one, too bad for them, pay a sub.

 

So to me, the level of vitriol against this idea, people blaming F2P when it's BW that created the system where a one-time sub gets you all the rewards, THAT'S the problem. That's what you should be complaining about. But subs on this forum seem to recognize that there is no point complaining to BW because they will just steamroll over everything. F2P is a much more convenient target.

 

Alternatively, it could be that I just don't care if they can get it for a month's sub, it's not like it's the first time that something like this has happened, right? Remember that this still applies to all "DLC" after KotFE. My limit on caring about that kind of stuff was kicked to the curb when they started taking "one time" rewards, and making them available to anyone. "Stay subbed for x to get HK 55". Well, they got my money, and look at it now, right? "But the new players" or "but I didn't want to stay subbed", and presto, all that hype was exposed. So sorry, my bitterness about this kind of thing has run it's course.

[Alssaran]

There is no 'technically'. I have never said F2P should get the same rewards as a sub, not even by inference. I said they should have the CHANCE to earn eight tokens but with a much smaller margin for error.

 

Again: the stronghold (among others) is a designated subscriber reward. By saying you want the stronghold, you're effectively saying: "give me the sub reward." That's what your argument boils down to, "chance" or not. Bioware designated a few rewards as subscriber only - 4k CC and the stronghold are the biggest. You're saying "I should be able to get the stronghold." So what you are asking for is effectively 50% of the good subscriber only rewards.

 

So to me, the level of vitriol against this idea, people blaming F2P when it's BW that created the system where a one-time sub gets you all the rewards, THAT'S the problem. That's what you should be complaining about.

 

No, what one should point out is that a developer cannot sustain an MMO off of F2P players alone. It's perfectly normal that developers want you to pay for their game and will create incentives for you to pay. Sometimes these are exclusive items. What I think is more of a problem is to look at a developer trying to get you to subscribe once a year for $15 and even giving you CC worth >$20 as an incentive on top and saying that is somehow "unfair" or a "predatory" system.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Alssaran

[Ardrossan]

Again: the stronghold (among others) is a designated subscriber reward. By saying you want the stronghold, you're effectively saying: "give me the sub reward." That's what your argument boils down to, "chance" or not. Bioware designated a few rewards as subscriber only - 4k CC and the stronghold are the biggest. You're saying "I should be able to get the stronghold." So what you are asking for is effectively 50% of the good subscriber only rewards.

 

lmao where exactly does it say the SH is a designated sub reward, besides your mind? It says it nowhere that I can see. If it actually WAS a designated sub reward then it would only be for subs, but F2P can get it, it just takes 450 days!

 

So no I'm not saying "give me the sub reward" because a) it's not exclusively a sub reward and b) I've repeatedly said, make it possible to get it within the first 150 days, but narrow the margin to get the tokens from 15 to 8 or 9. That's fair and that's in keeping with similar things BW has done: make it more difficult for F2P but not extremely difficult..

 

You know, in this same update, we got free unlocks on unify armor and other cosmetic changes. It doesn't affect me because I got those unlocks a long time ago, but I do appreciate not being nickel and dimed for higher vendor prices. If you lot had your way, they wouldn't get those, because you depend on people not having something to give value to the mediocre rewards you currently get from your sub on its own. This is your brain on capitalism. Again, blame BW for that, NOT other players.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ardrossan

[Alssaran]

lmao where exactly does it say the SH is a designated sub reward, besides your mind? It says it nowhere that I can see. If it actually WAS a designated sub reward then it would only be for subs, but F2P can get it, it just takes 450 days!

 

Can you get enough tokens this season for it if you're not subscribed? No? Then for the duration of this season it very much is a reward exclusive to subscribers until season 2.

 

So no I'm not saying "give me the sub reward" because a) it's not exclusively a sub reward and b) I've repeatedly said, make it possible to get it within the first 150 days

 

Since we established that for the duration of season 1 it very much is a reward only subscribers seem to be able to have access to, and due to recent changes made by BW that is probably by design, you're very much asking to make something that only subscribers have access to available. And as a subscriber, I heavily disagree with that. It's not too much to ask to subscribe for one month at the end of it all.

 

And before it comes up: no, I was heavily in favor of adding the unify color option to F2P and preferred players. It has nothing to do with "Muh capitalism."

Edited April 30, 2021 by Alssaran

[robertthebard]

I have been reading these forums for seven years, and I have seen countless anti-F2P threads and an unbelievable amount of raw hatred. And I'm okay with that on the whole because your ranting about the game being a business, not a charity? Yeah, historically BW has completely ignored people like you and made the gap between subs and F2P narrower and narrower.

 

Which is why I'm not "demanding" anything. I am "asking" BW to make it possible for F2P to earn more tokens so we have the chance to get the new SH and you know, I am pretty confident they will eventually do that! Because yes they are a business and their business model has actually been improving quality of life for F2P for the last few years, despite your rants about pay for play, while completely undermining the value of long term subs. So I can lol about this because you are shrilly defending a company that a) doesn't need your defense and b) doesn't agree with your economic philosophy at all.

 

With this in mind, did it occur to you that maybe they considered that, and chose not to? At some point, they have to realize that they actually do need some kind of carrot on the end of the stick, or there's nothing to drive the wagon forward. So this carrot is 2 1 month subs, at the end of each of the first two seasons, so that those interested in having the SHs can get them in the same time frame as the full time sub players.

 

As much as I have 0 faith in the "be subbed on x for an exclusive gift", I have 0 issues with this "scheme". I certainly do not maintain a sub specifically for that any more, lesson learned, I just have to wait until x amount of time passes, and people start lobbying for "the new players", or "I didn't want to meet the conditions, but I still want the reward" posts to proliferate, such as this one, which may fail if only for being too soon.

 

I understand exactly why this thread exists, the same strategy has worked in the past, why wouldn't it work now?

[DarkestMicheal]

"Stay subbed for x to get HK 55". Well, they got my money, and look at it now, right? "But the new players" or "but I didn't want to stay subbed", and presto, all that hype was exposed. So sorry, my bitterness about this kind of thing has run it's course.

 

Not just HK but all of the rewards, and now they are bringing them back (personally I don't mind, but then again, I didn't stay subbed all the time, for all the rewards, just here and there where I could. But I can understand the bitterness that brings up.

[Ardrossan]

Except no one demanded x for nothing. The fact that people are talking here, means they are subbed, and several of the people proposing that the s/h be available to F2P, have probably subbed longer, and more continuous than you. Not to mention, more of them have been a bigger part of the forum, and tried to get things right for everyone. It's a shame some can't be like that.

 

Personally I'd like the s/h, but I'll only re sub if the fix the issues that the game has had, and hasn't fixed (not going in to it here, plenty of threads on that out there)

 

Technically, I'm here on a referral and cookies that haven't yet expired . But I have subbed in the past, yes, and Tergon was also advocating for it before his account got banned...lmao unrelated to this thread

 

But yeah, it's a really silly comment. Players here are very fond of defending some ideal business model where you pay and get exactly what you pay for, you don't pay, you get nothing. It's a model that existed for about the first 10 months of this game prior to the mass exodus that inspired F2P. It also happens to be a model that they whip out when we're talking about F2P asking for things (the nerve!) but conveniently forget about it with literally everything else: If paying for service is all there was, you'd pay for a sub, you get game time, that's it. You're not entitled to, for example, previous rewards you got for staying subbed remaining out of reach for new players, forever.

 

If you're a long time recurring sub, you're paying to keep the game on, and I thank you. But BW does not, fundamentally does not care and has explicitly said they are only interested in attracting one time, periodic subs. That's the funding model and it's hard to believe subs have the mental gymnastics to defend such a sleazy, short-sighted scheme.

[robertthebard]

Technically, I'm here on a referral and cookies that haven't yet expired . But I have subbed in the past, yes, and Tergon was also advocating for it before his account got banned...lmao unrelated to this thread

 

But yeah, it's a really silly comment. Players here are very fond of defending some ideal business model where you pay and get exactly what you pay for, you don't pay, you get nothing. It's a model that existed for about the first 10 months of this game prior to the mass exodus that inspired F2P. It also happens to be a model that they whip out when we're talking about F2P asking for things (the nerve!) but conveniently forget about it with literally everything else: If paying for service is all there was, you'd pay for a sub, you get game time, that's it. You're not entitled to, for example, previous rewards you got for staying subbed remaining out of reach for new players, forever.

 

If you're a long time recurring sub, you're paying to keep the game on, and I thank you. But BW does not, fundamentally does not care and has explicitly said they are only interested in attracting one time, periodic subs. That's the funding model and it's hard to believe subs have the mental gymnastics to defend such a sleazy, short-sighted scheme.

 

That'd be great, if it were applicable. If you don't pay, you don't get expansions, and you're limited on a lot of things you can do. It's amazing how much 15 dollars can do for someone though. "But some people can't pay!!!", yeah, I'm one of them, sometimes. Sometimes I have too many bills coming due at the same time that only happen like once a year, such as my car tags. Other times, something went pear shaped and I have to spend money to get it fixed. Never, however, have I advocated for accommodating my shortage of cash. It's a very real "me" problem, and I'm the one that needs to take care of it. I do, too, by cancelling my sub if it's going to pay when I know I'm going to be short, or when something needs my money more.

 

That someone can't, or won't pay doesn't mean that the devs should just remove limitations from F2P or Preferred. They do that enough, as the reward track and stuff in the shop shows. "Exclusive rewards" available for just tooling along as a F2P through GS. I don't take that seriously anymore, I've learned better, from things that have happened in the last year or so, which is just while I was paying attention. There needs to be some kind of carrot to get people to pay a month, and frankly, there's a lot of value in that one month sub right now.