goulet Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 player expertise rating+ warzone expertise buff+ expertise pvp stim+ power trinket+ power stim= more damage from buffs then from the attack by itself. All usable at once mind you, and usable by every class. Don't get me wrong it doesn't help that you're flat on your back for 4 seconds while i have increased armor penetration, but you can't tell me something that nets you almost 3k in bonus damage in addition to any class abilities isn't standing out like a sore thumb as part of the equation that might be contributing to it. It's greater then any base damage from any ability for pete's sake, and its the "class" that's overpowered? Again, don't get me wrong the class might be, but how you determine that accurately when you have the above issue is beyond me. you solve the insane damage buffing issues and suddenly you're not dead and you have a full resolve bar by the time you stand back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 They just need to remove the armour pen from flechette round, maybe replace it with a short duration snare. 50% armour pen is just completely stupid. Posts like this remind me that people have no idea what they're talking about. You do realize that the knocked on your face part of the opener is not a result of Flechette Round, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 you solve the insane damage buffing issues and suddenly you're not dead and you have a full resolve bar by the time you stand back up. Step one: ban biochem in warzones. You can even make it a role-playing event with a treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_ghost Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I roll an assassin valour rank 56 full champ gear and decided to see what all this operative fuss was about after being beaten to a pulp from stealth by one. So I levelled one to 10 took him to wz and all I can say is wow they are crazy to play with who needs champ gear as an operative lol. but I put him on the shelf for now as don't want to play the op fotm class, but if things don't change it will be the class for pvp and he will be coming back out Edited January 16, 2012 by lethal_ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I roll an assassin valour rank 56 full champ gear and decided to see what ask this operative fuss was about after being beaten to a pulp from stealth by one. So I levelled one to 10 took him to wz and all I can say is write they are crazy to play with who needs champ gear as an operative lol. but I put him on the shelf for now as don't want to play the op fotm class, but if things don't change it will be the class for pvp and he will be coming back out somehow i find that hard to imagine. not that you weren't successful just you dont have the necessary abilities that everyone complains about as far perception of the class. Edited January 16, 2012 by goulet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I roll an assassin valour rank 56 full champ gear and decided to see what all this operative fuss was about after being beaten to a pulp from stealth by one. So I levelled one to 10 took him to wz and all I can say is wow they are crazy to play with who needs champ gear as an operative lol. but I put him on the shelf for now as don't want to play the op fotm class, but if things don't change it will be the class for pvp and he will be coming back out ops don't even get their "op" skills til 35 or 36 if I recall correctly, so I call BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 player expertise rating+ warzone expertise buff+ expertise pvp stim+ power trinket+ power stim= more damage from buffs then from the attack by itself. All usable at once mind you, and usable by every class. Don't get me wrong it doesn't help that you're flat on your back for 4 seconds while i have increased armor penetration, but you can't tell me something that nets you almost 3k in bonus damage in addition to any class abilities isn't standing out like a sore thumb as part of the equation that might be contributing to it. It's greater then any base damage from any ability for pete's sake, and its the "class" that's overpowered? Again, don't get me wrong the class might be, but how you determine that accurately when you have the above issue is beyond me. you solve the insane damage buffing issues and suddenly you're not dead and you have a full resolve bar by the time you stand back up. Now, the ops might be stacking these bonuses, but if these bonuses are really the problem, then why aren't other classes getting the same results? Ill tell you. Its because ops and scoundrels burst damage is op'd and needs to be nerfed. Consumables might need their own nerf seperately, but scounds and ops need their own. Perhaps buffs in other areas, but being taken down to sub 20% life (when I have 15k with 400 expertise) each minute by the same ops in wz's does not scream "consumables/stims/etc", seeing as they have longer cd's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ops don't even get their "op" skills til 35 or 36 if I recall correctly, so I call BS. forget op skills, he doesnt have anything worthwhile to do with his tactical advantages at that level. he has shiv and backstab both on long enough cooldowns to not be spammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Now, the ops might be stacking these bonuses, but if these bonuses are really the problem, then why aren't other classes getting the same results? Ill tell you. Its because ops and scoundrels burst damage is op'd and needs to be nerfed. Consumables might need their own nerf seperately, but scounds and ops need their own. Perhaps buffs in other areas, but being taken down to sub 20% life (when I have 15k with 400 expertise) each minute by the same ops in wz's does not scream "consumables/stims/etc", seeing as they have longer cd's. All your argument proves is that they benefit the best from it , not that the underlying class simply pushes it over the top. Everybody has a story about getting hit hard by several classes (save those poor dual wielding jedi). Granted none of them will have you flat on your back for 4 seconds, but that in and off itself doesnt make it op. you wanna tell me when more then 50% of their damage is from buffs not of the class that proves the class is overpowered? riddle me that. 15% armor penetration doesn't suddenly make you a god, but it does when you're throwing 3000+ more damage on top of it. also go to a pvp world zone, drop the warfront buff out of the equation and get a merc to pop their trinket, their expertise and damage stim and see how that goes for damage numbers. They're not gonna hit as hard but they have heavy armor, not medium, and aren't melee. Same rule will probably go that sin's damage will be less in that they have ranged abilities they actually use and have access to tanking. its like saying operatives are the sun, those buffs are a magnifying lens, and you're the ant. And the ant is pissed about the sun lighting him on fire. The sun can't ignite you without the lens. Edited January 16, 2012 by goulet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I roll an assassin valour rank 56 full champ gear and decided to see what all this operative fuss was about after being beaten to a pulp from stealth by one. So I levelled one to 10 took him to wz and all I can say is wow they are crazy to play with who needs champ gear as an operative lol. but I put him on the shelf for now as don't want to play the op fotm class, but if things don't change it will be the class for pvp and he will be coming back out You belong in my sig along with that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos_Distortion Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I roll an assassin valour rank 56 full champ gear and decided to see what all this operative fuss was about after being beaten to a pulp from stealth by one. So I levelled one to 10 took him to wz and all I can say is wow they are crazy to play with who needs champ gear as an operative lol. but I put him on the shelf for now as don't want to play the op fotm class, but if things don't change it will be the class for pvp and he will be coming back out Rofl, made up imaginary scenarios like the one quoted above are what bad game developers base their nerfs on, we shall see if Bioware falls for the bait. If they do, this game is doomed. Edited January 16, 2012 by Chaos_Distortion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgagner Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun. At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong. STUN 4.7k 3.8k 3.0k STUN OVER At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left. And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly. Why do you only have 10-12k hp at level 50? I have over 16,000 and I'm not even fully geared yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Been playing a healer operative in pvp for a while now. just hit valor rank 20 (Duelist, woo nice title). I definitely would not say they are overpowered. Then again I just mostly heal but i dont last againts anything. i can heal myself for a while if i want but i cannot kill them. damage seems ok. how do i stun someone long enough to kill them with 90% hp left myself? even againts 1 person would be nice to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_ghost Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Rofl, made up imaginary scenarios like the one quoted above are what bad game developers base their nerfs on, we shall see if Bioware falls for the bait. If they do, this game is doomed. At lvl 10 I could finish in top 4 constantly hit for 3k with expertise consumable this is not amazing on its own but for a level 10 its like wow. its like that at such a low lvl that amazed me can only imagine what it gets like with better gear and moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Rofl, made up imaginary scenarios like the one quoted above are what bad game developers base their nerfs on, we shall see if Bioware falls for the bait. If they do, this game is doomed. 100 bucks says he isn't valor 56, no champions gear and I'm pretty sure he isn't even 50. oh.. and MIGHT be a sorc/sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VSutra Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I say, give Jedi Shadow/Sith Assassins an opener that crits and stuns. Then we have a fair game. After all, burst classes burst no ? (even if the burst is 4 secs to death, while you fudge around your trinket in wz lag, and if its on cd you're just dead for sure). So basically, we have a class, that if your trinket is on cd, you're dead, and that is fair to everyone apparently? How silly, the whole mechanic just depends on one ability of escape, so much for versatility. If that's what everyone here judges fair, I say give the same for Shadows/Asssassins, I would have all other classes to only have one mechanic of escape from Shadows/Assassins, that has a 1 to 2 minute cd on the escape mechanic. Jokers. Edited January 16, 2012 by VSutra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ok so if they nerf our damage then not only do we get creamed but we also do less damage then we do now. That sounds baaad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContrailNZ Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Actually you need to L2P before commenting falsely on forums about game mechanics you know nothing about. Move along now. Surge adrenals are imba. My epic one boosts my crit damage multiplyer by about 40%, insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YpaWinz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 At lvl 10 I could finish in top 4 constantly hit for 3k with expertise consumable this is not amazing on its own but for a level 10 its like wow. its like that at such a low lvl that amazed me can only imagine what it gets like with better gear and moves Not sure if you realize this, but the expertise consumable gives a 15% increase. At lvl 10, you have 0 expertise. 15% of 0 is 0. That said, if you did that well at level 10, everyone else in your WZ was AFK, asleep, and/or terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethal_ghost Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 100 bucks says he isn't valor 56, no champions gear and I'm pretty sure he isn't even 50. oh.. and MIGHT be a sorc/sage. Lethal kai kan server if you cba to check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 He was making it up like half this thread,i dont even know where to start on this thread there is so much BS. Scoundrels and Op's are fine atm,lets wait and see what the brackets show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyFokker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Anyway. Fact remains, they are immensely OP and their damage needs to be turned down ALOT. They are atm the gods of pvp. Tell that to all the Operatives I kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YpaWinz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Scoundrels and Op's are fine atm,lets wait and see what the brackets show. I've said this since the nerf calls started. Most every nerf thread on this board is unsupported by any kind of video/screenshot proof of anything. It's just someone spouting random numbers. "He hit me for 5k 3 times in a row w/ backstab and then chain stunned me for 12 seconds." Not only do almost none of the nerf criers have any idea how operative works (or resolve, or any other game mechanic), there's no way to validate whether a post was made by a lvl 10 or a lvl 50. Once the 50 bracket hits, hopefully folks will realize that there's a lot less to worry about than the lvl 12's are making it seem. Of course we know that a 50 bracket won't stop people from being idiots, but wishful thinking and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I say, give Jedi Shadow/Sith Assassins an opener that crits and stuns. Then we have a fair game. After all, burst classes burst no ? (even if the burst is 4 secs to death, while you fudge around your trinket in wz lag, and if its on cd you're just dead for sure). So basically, we have a class, that if your trinket is on cd, you're dead, and that is fair to everyone apparently? How silly, the whole mechanic just depends on one ability of escape, so much for versatility. If that's what everyone here judges fair, I say give the same for Shadows/Asssassins, I would have all other classes to only have one mechanic of escape from Shadows/Assassins, that has a 1 to 2 minute cd on the escape mechanic. Jokers. Since we're talking about fair, I would like Ops/scoundrels to get an incapitate from stealth that doesn't fill a resolve bar, a ranged stun, knockback and force sprint just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YpaWinz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Since we're talking about fair, I would like Ops/scoundrels to get an incapitate from stealth that doesn't fill a resolve bar, a ranged stun, knockback and force sprint just to name a few. I kind of agree on the incap, but I don't think it's that big a thing. Operatives have the ability to self heal, which does a lot for survivability. Assassins kind of depend on that ranged stun, knockback and sprint just to stay alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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