@Mike🅱️ & Daniel. A legitimate idea to help pvp. Please pass on and discuss with us.

[TrixxieTriss]

“Basically, make the lowbie bracket get all abilities up to lvl 42, and mid bracket get all abilities up to lvl 74”

 

At the moment we have lowbie pvp bracket lvl 10-42. Which means we currently have players with hardly and abilities or utility points to offset against others with all the bells and whistles.

 

The same can be said in mid bracket where you have lvl 43-74 and some of those more advanced utilities and abilities make it less enjoyable at the beginning of the bracket.

 

None of this was a major issue when the brackets were only 10-30 and 31-49 (early in the games life). But lvl creep has made this a much bigger proposition and problem.

 

The solution would be to give everyone the full amount of abilities and utility points for each bracket. So when you first go into or queue for pvp, you get told what they are and can choose them.

 

That way a lvl 10 player has the same abilities against a lvl 42 player in the lowbie bracket.

 

Guildwars 2 does this with their pvp. They actually don’t have any brackets at all and everyone gets max abilities and Armor for max lvl pvp.

Of course I don’t expect swtor would do that and get rid of the brackets. But the idea of giving everyone access to all the abilities available for their brackets should be considered.

 

Now if this is too technically impossible or expensive for Bioware to do, then so be it. But could you at least ask the dev team about it and get back to us with a yay or nay.

Edited June 10, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[merovejec]

Hmm this is actually not a bad idea. I mean the part where you give all abilities to the player who goes into PVP. Lets say you have 1 bracket from 10 - 74 where you get all abilities, doesnt matter what level you will be. The reason you would still need 2 brackets is gear. We couldnt remove lowbie overall due to gear, which the 75s would have top and the level 11 people wouldnt have anything. Also we have f2p and preff players who go to level 65 max.

 

So a bracket of 10-74 would be nice with all abilities right away. Would just be a mess for the player for example in terms of keybinds cause you would have to keybind all keys and then when you enter PVP you would be able to use the keybinds, but out of PVP the abilities would be gone. I mean its no biggy for an experienced player who already has keybinds setup and stored, but new players might be confused.

Edited June 10, 2020 by merovejec

[DougKiller]

Imagine you being a new player, and queue up in PvP and boom, 300 abilities that you never ever have seen before suddenly appears in your quickbar, 10/10 new player experience

[limenutpen]

I think the best idea is to stop PvP at say up until level 50, and may be integrate some of the games as part of the planetary story line. Say battle of Aldeeraan becomes a mission of the planet story line at level 30, and VS the same, and HB the same.

[merovejec]

Imagine you being a new player, and queue up in PvP and boom, 300 abilities that you never ever have seen before suddenly appears in your quickbar, 10/10 new player experience

 

Like I said, good for veteran, bad for new player. The swap from PVE to PVP would be quite a shock. On the other hand, the players would probably be looking forward to getting all their abilities.

Edited June 10, 2020 by merovejec

[wepeel]

This would seem like kind of an extensive fix for brackets that I'm not sure are in need of it. Yes, a level 10 or 20 player will be hard pressed to win against a level 39 or 42 one, but the same goes at level 75 pvp when people with no set bonuses/tacticals and gear rating 250 join in. In my own experience, if anything I find the lowbie brackets less lopsided, i.e. a greater percentage of games are relatively even and premades are much fewer. The lowbie brackets also have the advantage that a hardcore, premade team that join at e.g. level 40 to farm the opposition will level out of the bracket relatively fast and won't be an issue for long. So if anything should be addressed for balance it ought to be the endgame bracket, before anything else is done.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hmm this is actually not a bad idea. I mean the part where you give all abilities to the player who goes into PVP. Lets say you have 1 bracket from 10 - 74 where you get all abilities, doesnt matter what level you will be. The reason you would still need 2 brackets is gear. We couldnt remove lowbie overall due to gear, which the 75s would have top and the level 11 people wouldnt have anything. Also we have f2p and preff players who go to level 65 max.

 

So a bracket of 10-74 would be nice with all abilities right away. Would just be a mess for the player for example in terms of keybinds cause you would have to keybind all keys and then when you enter PVP you would be able to use the keybinds, but out of PVP the abilities would be gone. I mean its no biggy for an experienced player who already has keybinds setup and stored, but new players might be confused.

 

This is exactly what they do for guild wars 2. And when you decide to pvp, you go into a type of instance that has a lobby.

While in this instance, you get pop ups reminding you to change xyz, add gear (which they actually provide) and add “utility point” (they call them different and it’s way more involved than swtors).

Once you have set that up, you can queue for pvp or go do a cross realm pvp battle that goes all week. But in the instance they also have training dummies where you can go and practice. This is when you can setup your keybinds.

Once you set this all up, you can save it so next time you go in it defaults to it. That way you just have to queue.

I know the first time I did it I was a little overwhelmed, then a tutorial popped up to explain it. Of course being new to the game it was still a lot because GW2 has way more customisation than swtor with abilities and weapons. But it seems to work over there quiet well. So I don’t see it as being a hurdle in swtor which is much more simplistic.

[TrixxieTriss]

This would seem like kind of an extensive fix for brackets that I'm not sure are in need of it. Yes, a level 10 or 20 player will be hard pressed to win against a level 39 or 42 one, but the same goes at level 75 pvp when people with no set bonuses/tacticals and gear rating 250 join in. In my own experience, if anything I find the lowbie brackets less lopsided, i.e. a greater percentage of games are relatively even and premades are much fewer. The lowbie brackets also have the advantage that a hardcore, premade team that join at e.g. level 40 to farm the opposition will level out of the bracket relatively fast and won't be an issue for long. So if anything should be addressed for balance it ought to be the endgame bracket, before anything else is done.

 

Imagine if it wasn’t lopsided at all? Everyone with access to the same abilities and gear did matter (like now). Wouldn’t that be a more fun and enjoyable experience for those involved and not just the ones winning because they have a 20 level advantage?

Remember, it’s double XP at the moment, so it’s not a biggy to lvl up faster. But what happens when that goes in away in 5 days? I’ll tell you what happens, people stop queueing to level up in pvp.

 

It’s not about what should be addressed first or last. The whole pvp eco system needs an overhaul from top to bottom because what affects end game pvp, starts at the bottom and works it’s way through.

Edited June 11, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[wepeel]

Imagine if it wasn’t lopsided at all? Everyone with access to the same abilities and gear did matter (like now). Wouldn’t that be a more fun and enjoyable experience for those involved and not just the ones winning because they have a 20 level advantage?

Remember p, it’s double XP at the moment, so it’s not a biggy to lvl up faster. But what happens when that goes in away in 5 days? I’ll tell you what happens, people stop queueing to level up in pvp.

 

It’s not about what should be addressed first or last. The whole pvp eco system needs an overhaul from top to bottom because what affects end game pvp, starts at the bottom and works it’s way through.

 

Well, it might be a little bit nicer for the relatively short amount of time a player spends in the lowbie brackets. But again, given the small amounts of time and resources (or so one would surmise) that is currently spent on balancing pvp, I'm still of the opinion that with the most issues existing at level 75 and by far the most pvp matches being played there, that's where the focus should go. Once that is "fixed" it would seem more reasonable to go back and touch up the lowbie brackets, but even then I'm not sure about this proposal, for two reasons:

 

1. The experience aspect. As someone pointed out earlier, if you're a new player (or even just new to the class), suddenly getting a bunch of unfamiliar abilities to fit into your bars and rotations while you wait for the match to start might not do you a lot of good, and you'll still lose about as surely as if you didn't have the abilities at all. If you're not a new player you'll benefit, but.. then you'll also already be aware of the bracket range and know what to expect depending on when you start queueing.

 

2. The RP aspect, or gamification vs immersion. The process of leveling up and gaining new abilities, normally an RP staple, is already kind of streamlined and watered down, and suddenly getting all your "future" abilities as soon as you join a warzone would add to this.

[TrixxieTriss]

Well, it might be a little bit nicer for the relatively short amount of time a player spends in the lowbie brackets. But again, given the small amounts of time and resources (or so one would surmise) that is currently spent on balancing pvp, I'm still of the opinion that with the most issues existing at level 75 and by far the most pvp matches being played there, that's where the focus should go. Once that is "fixed" it would seem more reasonable to go back and touch up the lowbie brackets, but even then I'm not sure about this proposal, for two reasons:

 

1. The experience aspect. As someone pointed out earlier, if you're a new player (or even just new to the class), suddenly getting a bunch of unfamiliar abilities to fit into your bars and rotations while you wait for the match to start might not do you a lot of good, and you'll still lose about as surely as if you didn't have the abilities at all. If you're not a new player you'll benefit, but.. then you'll also already be aware of the bracket range and know what to expect depending on when you start queueing.

 

2. The RP aspect, or gamification vs immersion. The process of leveling up and gaining new abilities, normally an RP staple, is already kind of streamlined and watered down, and suddenly getting all your "future" abilities as soon as you join a warzone would add to this.

 

This thread is just one of many ideas that bioware need to consider.

The problem is the whole pvp eco system needs an overhaul at once. A piece meal approach to fix this or that won’t cut it.

People should be learning to pvp in lowbies and not lvl 75 or ranked for that matter. This is will only happen if it’s a viable way to lvl up and incentives to play it more.

 

Pvp in at the poorest level of skill in the history of this game due to a lot of bad policies and changes to the pvp eco system and the whole Pve game being dumbed down over the years.

To really fix pvp, you can’t prioritise one part over the other constantly like they try to do or you end up with the whole system being unbalanced. Which is why we have such poor skills in pvp these days.

 

Every part of the pvp eco system is as important as the rest. What’s important to you isn’t important to others and.vis versa. And that’s the problem here. It’s all equally important if you want the pvp part of the game to function as a healthy system that grows players skills to eventually be able to play at the highest level if they so choose.

But to do that, the game needs to be fun and enticing to more than people with the thickest skins.

 

I respect your point of view on the RP side, but I respectfully disagree because the majority of pvpers don’t RP in pvp. So it’s not a big deal. Especially when you consider how easy the pve aspect of the game is that 90% of casual players don’t know what a DCD is and you can literally spam one or two abilities all your way to lvl 75. This is part of why skills are so lacking in pvp.

[Lhancelot]

Is it just me or does it seem Community Management has passed on their (lack of) communication methods to the newer employees when it comes to how they like to communicate with people on the forums?

 

For the past few months it seems they only post the obvious and we have zero interaction with them whereas during earlier times with the newer Yellow Text People it seemed we seen much more yellow text across the forums.

 

This game is sort of like a blog someone creates. Basically it gets written any which way by whoever it is who controls the development work on SWTOR and the players are really just readers having no impact on the direction the game goes.

 

Whether we enjoy it or not it seems irrelevant and design changes come and go; some enjoyed and some vilified by us over the months and years. It's a curious way to manage a game, seeing how "fun" a game is usually correlates in revenue due to a larger pool of players actively playing.

 

I think the biggest issue is expectations on behalf of some of the player base. Many people compare how MMOs typically are ran and get frustrated with SWTOR because of the lack of real genuine, transparent communication. I remember feeling this way with Sony on EQ1/EQ2, basically Sony did whatever they wanted regardless what it's player base wanted.

 

 

Examples of Bioware saying one thing but doing another:

 

 

 

A big problem with BW is they say a lot of things but then their actual design changes often belie the supposed direction the game is said to be going.

 

The much maligned phrase, "play your way" evokes mostly resentment because truth be told the game has never been more black and white in how you must play if you want to actually progress your character with gears in an efficient manner.

 

PVPers know this statement to be a lie, playing our way is not a viable way to gear up, which completely dismantles the ridiculous statement that the players can "play your way" and enjoy the process of gearing up in SWTOR equally when compared to PVE activities like FPs and OPs.

 

Another example is conquest being designed to make the system equally engaging for smaller guilds, so they too can compete for rewards fairly versus the larger guilds.

 

BW has done nothing to empower smaller guilds in fact the power discrepancy between smaller guilds and larger guilds has never been bigger. As a result conquest has eliminated any reason to be a part of smaller guilds.

 

Larger guilds get the best rewards and smaller guilds have no chance at getting the amount of rewards larger guilds do. Whether or not this is fair is up for debate but from my perspective the system is bad when only those joining gigantic zerg guilds get the best rewards. What incentive is there to be in a smaller guild? You will just get punished.

 

They can improve both scenarios, btw. PVP ought to have far more tech frags rewarded for the completion of a WZ.

 

More rewards such as crafting mats could also be added to the end of each WZ match.

 

They could increase the chance a gear set piece will drop.

More incentives are needed to encourage people to queue for PVP! The beauty of this "fix" is it could be added to lowbies and mids too. This would undoubtedly encourage more players to participate in regs 8v8s in ALL tiers if tech frags, gear drops were awarded with each WZ match including lowbies and mids.

 

 

As for conquest, Bioware should work on finding a way to empower smaller guilds in conquest. If BW did this, we'd see far more different types of guilds operating.

 

If PVP actually was a viable way to not only gear up, BUT also to score conquest points effectively, you'd see more PVP guilds! This in turn would increase the PVP population! Imagine if GSF was a viable way to level conquest, this would in turn give GSF players a reason to create GSF guilds to focus on winning conquest via GSF.

 

This would truly be, "playing your way."

 

Which, if you are reading BW, would increase your wealth and success.

 

Bioware. The more types of players you have logging in and playing means more chances players will buy from the CM, and also likens the chance they influence their friends/family to play which obviously brings even more players to the game. It's a predictable cycle but BW seems incapable of understanding these really basic concepts of how a MMO can work.

[steveerkcanjerk]

I am just gonna say with the limited time and resources they have and being some who works on games as well, this is not really a priority. It takes alot more work then people think to get that code working while other stuff is in the pipe line. This will do very little to improve or retain more players. I have yet to see a person quit this game because level 14 or level 42 pvp was that fun to them. This is not to bring down the suggestion but just the reality of the development process. Right now they have buffs and nerfs to conduct which no is not done with a click of a button, they have gear sets that require reworks and tuning, then they have a new event around the corner, and then they have new content for this year or the next at is there next 7.0. Not to mention voice acting casting and writing, bug fixes etc. I always see you guys give feedback the idea is not bad but just not worth the pay off of development time that it would take. Something that might actually keep people playing might be to revamp rewards for regular pvp if want to improve pvp scene outside of class balance. It would be nice to see a seasonal battle pass system, would it take work yes, would it get people quing for longer and more often also yes. Thats just an example of how a design team thinks, for were I work and what I am working i needed a clan page for example to be made. Sounds very simple to the community right? Nope all the UI programmers are so backed up that it goes into the pipeline. Nothing is ever simple so when they do an endevour it has to be something worth it. And at the moment the leveling and sub cap experiance is pretty damn good in tor.

[Rion_Starkiller]

This is indirectly on topic, but I think newbies would have a better time if valor rank/hidden elo were legacy-wide, not per toon. Then lowbie warzone queues (and 75's too) might be more balanced.

[Lodinn]

This is indirectly on topic, but I think newbies would have a better time if valor rank/hidden elo were legacy-wide, not per toon. Then lowbie warzone queues (and 75's too) might be more balanced.

Yeah. Maybe I'd finally rise above valor rank 40 that way, wasn't doing PvP at max lvl until like today and got over a dozen toons at valor 30-40. No idea why is it not per-legacy yet but well, given how deep it probably is in the code I'm afraid that's too much to ask for..

[TrixxieTriss]

Right now they have buffs and nerfs to conduct which no is not done with a click of a button, they have gear sets that require reworks and tuning, then they have a new event around the corner, and then they have new content for this year or the next at is there next 7.0. Not to mention voice acting casting and writing, bug fixes etc. I always see you guys give feedback the idea is not bad but just not worth the pay off of development time that it would take.

 

Something that might actually keep people playing might be to revamp rewards for regular pvp if want to improve pvp scene outside of class balance. It would be nice to see a seasonal battle pass system, would it take work yes, would it get people quing for longer and more often also yes.

 

You are right of course about the bugs and other problems, that goes without saying and should be incorporated as well as rewards and getting people to play. It’s part of pvp as a whole that needs revamping as one thing and not just bits and pieces.