RikuvonDrake Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 any gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csjbo Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Pyro's got buffed LOL. Not germane to the topic, but important to note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I mean, pyros arent scary its just meteor brawler. people dont know yet to look for the blue 7 stack and book it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csjbo Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) I mean, pyros arent scary its just meteor brawler. people dont know yet to look for the blue 7 stack and book it True, but I do think it's telling that they'll buff any part of Pyro before addressing Superheated Fuel (personally I think that tactical is the issue not Meteor Brawler). Edited December 11, 2019 by Csjbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 If you look at the solos leaders board from last season this is going to be an issue in both solos and group ranked. Looking at solos: Snipers:#24 sniper in solos would get a top 3 title. Jugg: #27 Jugg would get a top 3 Sin - #35 Sorc- Actually one of the top 3 would get a top 3! Vanguard: #77.... Mando: #28 Operative: One top 3 would actually get top 3, then we jump to #8 and #11 Most players on the front page of each class are no where near 200 wins. Maybe we should just change it to: "Top 3 spammers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 True, but I do think it's telling that they'll buff any part of Pyro before addressing Superheated Fuel (personally I think that tactical is the issue not Meteor Brawler). No way dude, neither PT or leth Op are an issue: Double VG + Ruffian Scoundrel: https://www.twitch.tv/aqrius/clip/StrongPiliableMooseSquadGoals Leth Op tactical shenanigans: https://i.gyazo.com/a6d13ecbe10b5746edf392a40787431c.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) If you look at the solos leaders board from last season this is going to be an issue in both solos and group ranked. Looking at solos: Snipers:#24 sniper in solos would get a top 3 title. Jugg: #27 Jugg would get a top 3 Sin - #35 Sorc- Actually one of the top 3 would get a top 3! Vanguard: #77.... Mando: #28 Operative: One top 3 would actually get top 3, then we jump to #8 and #11 Most players on the front page of each class are no where near 200 wins. Maybe we should just change it to: "Top 3 spammers." these changes for season 12 not 11. season 11 will have all the same as it was before Edited December 11, 2019 by omaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 https://i.imgur.com/lqnE9fa.png EZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 these changes for season 12 not 11. season 11 will have all the same as it was before Obviously, my point is that most of the top 3 players would not qualify in either group or solo ranked for their top 3 titles; instead the you would be giving a top 3 title to the #24 or #27 or #77 player of that class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 https://i.imgur.com/lqnE9fa.png EZ S4 bastion memes ftw. At least solos were still (sometimes) fun back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Obviously, my point is that most of the top 3 players would not qualify in either group or solo ranked for their top 3 titles; instead the you would be giving a top 3 title to the #24 or #27 or #77 player of that class... That's because the current most efficient tactic for a Top 3 is to camp on a specific rating. Why would anyone play more games when they are currently at top 3, if it means risking their rating? This change is amazing because now people can't camp until they reach 200 games played. And by the time you get to 200 games, your rating will be where it needs to be in regards to your skill level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 S4 bastion memes ftw. At least solos were still (sometimes) fun back then. https://i.imgur.com/xfnoxFj.png I got it on Harbinger that Season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Obviously, my point is that most of the top 3 players would not qualify in either group or solo ranked for their top 3 titles; instead the you would be giving a top 3 title to the #24 or #27 or #77 player of that class... Iam the oper you mentioned for top 3. If player really wants it he would play more. People stopped at 40,100,150 wins only because it was enough to get the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Iam the oper you mentioned for top 3. If player really wants it he would play more. People stopped at 40,100,150 wins only because it was enough to get the title. Yup, this is exactly it. People will always min/max their chances to receive rewards. So there was no reason previously to reach 200 games played, because it wasn't required. So pointing out previous seasons is a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 That's because the current most efficient tactic for a Top 3 is to camp on a specific rating. Why would anyone play more games when they are currently at top 3, if it means risking their rating? This change is amazing because now people can't camp until they reach 200 games played. And by the time you get to 200 games, your rating will be where it needs to be in regards to your skill level. This is a good change for people who like to play one character and a terrible change for people who like to play multiple characters. Regardless of how many games you play your rating is, simply, your rating; if the system has enough competitive players then you should be surpassed if you stop playing, if the system does not have enough competitive players then the point is mute. You've played long enough to know that sitting on rating, unless you were excessively higher than anyone else (which usually didn't happen on a "competitive" class unless you played a solid amount of games) did not work in more active seasons. Personally I don't care about top 3 titles, but when I look at some of the players that would have "earned" a top 3 title last season simply due to games played I think it's sad. I do think the change to gold is annoying, as someone who enjoys pushing multiple characters to gold and can generally do so in much less than 100 games played (much less won) this is a huge turn off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 This is a good change for people who like to play one character and a terrible change for people who like to play multiple characters. Regardless of how many games you play your rating is, simply, your rating; if the system has enough competitive players then you should be surpassed if you stop playing, if the system does not have enough competitive players then the point is mute. You've played long enough to know that sitting on rating, unless you were excessively higher than anyone else (which usually didn't happen on a "competitive" class unless you played a solid amount of games) did not work in more active seasons. Personally I don't care about top 3 titles, but when I look at some of the players that would have "earned" a top 3 title last season simply due to games played I think it's sad. I do think the change to gold is annoying, as someone who enjoys pushing multiple characters to gold and can generally do so in much less than 100 games played (much less won) this is a huge turn off. I agree that this hurts people who play multiple classes when it comes to gold. I think that they should probably have just implemented this change for top 96 only, since you should be focusing on that class to be rightfully be considered the best amongst all others playing that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 This is a good change for people who like to play one character and a terrible change for people who like to play multiple characters. Personally I don't care about top 3 titles, but when I look at some of the players that would have "earned" a top 3 title last season simply due to games played I think it's sad. . Hm. You actually brought an issue here...none of highrated players gets top 96 due to less of 200 wins so who gets it??low rated guy with 200 wins who was lucky to have more rating than others players with 200+ wins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 You've played long enough to know that sitting on rating, unless you were excessively higher than anyone else (which usually didn't happen on a "competitive" class unless you played a solid amount of games) did not work in more active seasons. That's not true tho. I reached 3.3k rating at my peak and continued to play and fell back to 2.8k and still got top 3 in season 4. I could have sat on 3.3k rating when I had acquired it only 2 months into the season and come back 6 months later and been top 3. And Season 4 was one of the most active seasons. Regardless, to fix it, the devs should: *Remove the games played requirement for all tiers below Top 96. *Introduce Rating Decay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) That's because the current most efficient tactic for a Top 3 is to camp on a specific rating. Why would anyone play more games when they are currently at top 3, if it means risking their rating? This change is amazing because now people can't camp until they reach 200 games played. And by the time you get to 200 games, your rating will be where it needs to be in regards to your skill level. Exactly. This is an excellent change that I've been campaigning for on the forums for about a year now. I'm so glad Mike B actually made the requirements that high for gold and top 3. Regardless, to fix it, the devs should: *Remove the games played requirement for all tiers below Top 96. *Introduce Rating Decay. There's no reason they can't do both. I find it amazing that people really want to be able to play a handful of games, and whether through luck or wintrading, still get top rewards as if they deserve them. The people that actually win a substantial amount of games and have a top rating are clearly the better players that season and more deserving of rewards. Let's say LeBron or Durant are only able to play in 20 games during a season because they're hurt. Even if they play amazing in those 20 games, they're not going to win MVP. Also, if you regularly queue for solo ranked, these win requirements are trivial. Edited December 12, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I agree that this hurts people who play multiple classes when it comes to gold. I think that they should probably have just implemented this change for top 96 only, since you should be focusing on that class to be rightfully be considered the best amongst all others playing that class. If we assume that solo ranked is a proper indication of skill and a medium where a player has enough agency to overcome the RNG inherent in the system then it's safe to say that any good player will, eventually, rise to the top; can we agree on this? If you agree with the above then it's also safe to say that if a player achieves a top 3 rating in 50 games, then stops playing, eventually he/she will be forced to start playing again if there other highly skilled players of the same caliber that are still playing? The whole concept here is that if there are people who are capable of challenging someone's rating and they have the willpower to do so then they will eventually push high enough to unseat the player at the top and that player will be forced to resume playing in order to safeguard/re-earn their spot; this was a generally true statement in past seasons (esp. before s9) unless you played an under-performing class (such as mando back in s4/5). If someone can sit on a top 3 spot with ~20/30/40 wins for an entire season (esp. one as long as s11) and no one rises up to challenge them I think that speaks volumes about the state of solo ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It raises the bar for suspect strats to get X rank. You need to both get the rating AND risk your rating over a large number of games. Ought to kill off most low sportsmanship approaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 If someone can sit on a top 3 spot with ~20/30/40 wins for an entire season (esp. one as long as s11) and no one rises up to challenge them I think that speaks volumes about the state of solo ranked. No, it only speaks volumes about luck and/or wintrading in the first two weeks of a season when no one has an accurate rating so matchmaking doesn't work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 That's not true tho. I reached 3.3k rating at my peak and continued to play and fell back to 2.8k and still got top 3 in season 4. I could have sat on 3.3k rating when I had acquired it only 2 months into the season and come back 6 months later and been top 3. And Season 4 was one of the most active seasons. Regardless, to fix it, the devs should: *Remove the games played requirement for all tiers below Top 96. *Introduce Rating Decay. I think rating decay would be a better system than the win requirements since it would keep the required number of games relative to your general competition, ie: if all of the top 3 spots for shadow ended with ~120-130 games played then the fight for top 3 shadow would be competitive and rating decay would ensure that everyone had to keep playing (at least enough to to not drop out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) No, it only speaks volumes about luck and/or wintrading in the first two weeks of a season when no one has an accurate rating so matchmaking doesn't work properly. Luck works both ways Alex, you can get a good night or two of queuing and pick up 100-200 (or more) rating. When you have a system that has any many layers of RNG as solo ranked does you're never going to eliminate the luck aspect. Edited December 12, 2019 by alexsamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Luck works both ways Alex, you can get a good night or two of queuing and pick up 100-200 (or more) rating. When you have a system that has any many layers of RNG as solo ranked does you're never going to eliminate the luck aspect. But adding win requirements like this greatly mitigates the luck factor...which is why it's great. The players that can actually sustain winning, rather than just getting lucky in 30-40 games, are clearly far more deserving of top rewards. The person that has a 1600 rating with 400 games played has clearly performed better in a season than a person with a 1700 rating with only 40 games played. Personally, I find solo ranked very fun. So I play it a lot. I had hundreds of wins on a bunch of different alts, just playing the game (full disclosure, I would have multiple top 3s if this new system was applied to season 11 lol). It blows my mind that people want stuff for not playing the game. Edited December 12, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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