Time to nerf Deception assassin's dps or everyone will play only assassin

[TrixxieTriss]

I don't understand why all pretent to be waiting for people to gear up. Like it's not a secret that best PvP people already have multiple 306 toons since day 2. And there is boolster at max right now. Also Krea tested sin on full 306 toon too. So it's pretty obvious that nothing will change if we wait 1 day 1 week or month. Thing isn't in maul hitting 60+ but that sins do it 3 time in a row making 80% HP burst. And able to do it multiple times per Arena round. And it's just 1 sin if you got 2 and more in your team? And there are already Sins all over the Ranked. I can't imagine a match without multiple sins in team right now and as times go on it will be only worse. But yeah, let's def Sins till season starts and enjoy Sins fest.

 

It’s not so much gearing up, it’s the fact that people haven’t learnt the new meta yet. They don’t know what every set bonus or tactical does or how to use their new ability (useless for sins by the way). You also have amps in the mix, all be it, not as much an issue. Lastly, most people who geared up fast used stealth classes to do it. So there are probably more geared up sins and operatives than any other class. So it will take a while for that to balance out.

 

In the mean time every FOTM reroller who reads a nerf this class thread will jump to that class like they always do. Then the issue become a self fulfilling prophecy because too many of the same class in a match will always come across as OP. The issue is amplified when it’s stealth classes because there is relatively zero defence against 4 sins or operative attacking you at once from stealth.

 

People need to just chill. Season 12 hasn’t even started yet. Give it a few more weeks or even a month to learn new stuff before throwing the nerf comments around.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I don't understand why all pretent to be waiting for people to gear up. Like it's not a secret that best PvP people already have multiple 306 toons since day 2. And there is boolster at max right now. Also Krea tested sin on full 306 toon too. So it's pretty obvious that nothing will change if we wait 1 day 1 week or month. Thing isn't in maul hitting 60+ but that sins do it 3 time in a row making 80% HP burst. And able to do it multiple times per Arena round. And it's just 1 sin if you got 2 and more in your team? And there are already Sins all over the Ranked. I can't imagine a match without multiple sins in team right now and as times go on it will be only worse. But yeah, let's def Sins till season starts and enjoy Sins fest.

 

The reason we want to wait is because as it turns out, some classes perform completely differently when they are fully geared compare to when they aren’t.

 

A sin with full gear isn’t even close to the same as a sin without full gear. A sniper in full set bonus + tactical performs much differently than a sniper without it.

 

Pyro PT is literally night and day different when they don’t have the Meteor Brawler set compared to when they do.

 

 

So if we make balance changes when we only get to see sin fully geared, and then it turns out that “oops, turns out it was pretty balanced because we have classes like PT doing 20k DPS in arenas and doing 90k AoE damage while sin has a good opener but only pulls 8k dps by comparison” well by then it’s too late and the damage is done.

 

I promise you, there are multiple classes that are literally leagues ahead of Assassin for damage. The literal only thing sin has atm over the other classes is a strong first 10 seconds of a match. The rest of the 4 minutes and 50 seconds of an arena, Assassin is pretty tame. Compared to other classes which are absolute powerhouses from the time the gate drops to the time that the round ends. The only difference is, the classes that are powerhouses aren’t all fully geared and running around doing powerful stuff like Sins are because they gear slower and are also some of the traditionally less played classes, so the public doesn’t know to reroll to that class yet.

[ajiehblr]

It’s not so much gearing up, it’s the fact that people haven’t learnt the new meta yet. They don’t know what every set bonus or tactical does or how to use their new ability (useless for sins by the way). You also have amps in the mix, all be it, not as much an issue. Lastly, most people who geared up fast used stealth classes to do it. So there are probably more geared up sins and operatives than any other class. So it will take a while for that to balance out.

 

In the mean time every FOTM reroller who reads a nerf this class thread will jump to that class like they always do. Then the issue become a self fulfilling prophecy because too many of the same class in a match will always come across as OP. The issue is amplified when it’s stealth classes because there is relatively zero defence against 4 sins or operative attacking you at once from stealth.

 

People need to just chill. Season 12 hasn’t even started yet. Give it a few more weeks or even a month to learn new stuff before throwing the nerf comments around.

 

It was only first few days when stealthers had advantage. If you want by now you'll have full 306 with set bonus and tactical on multiple toons. And all good ranked people I've seen in Arena had geared toons. So it's already obvious how all classes can perform if you queue SR and watch leaderboard players.

[ajiehblr]

The reason we want to wait is because as it turns out, some classes perform completely differently when they are fully geared compare to when they aren’t.

 

A sin with full gear isn’t even close to the same as a sin without full gear. A sniper in full set bonus + tactical performs much differently than a sniper without it.

 

Pyro PT is literally night and day different when they don’t have the Meteor Brawler set compared to when they do.

 

 

So if we make balance changes when we only get to see sin fully geared, and then it turns out that “oops, turns out it was pretty balanced because we have classes like PT doing 20k DPS in arenas and doing 90k AoE damage while sin has a good opener but only pulls 8k dps by comparison” well by then it’s too late and the damage is done.

 

I promise you, there are multiple classes that are literally leagues ahead of Assassin for damage. The literal only thing sin has atm over the other classes is a strong first 10 seconds of a match. The rest of the 4 minutes and 50 seconds of an arena, Assassin is pretty tame. Compared to other classes which are absolute powerhouses from the time the gate drops to the time that the round ends. The only difference is, the classes that are powerhouses aren’t all fully geared and running around doing powerful stuff like Sins are because they gear slower and are also some of the traditionally less played classes, so the public doesn’t know to reroll to that class yet.

 

Yeah, don't focus Sin and what his damage will be average or low? Don't say you haven't seen arenas where Sins do almost twice as damage as second place. You don't focus them and they will solo win you game. You focus them they still do burst fase and H2F and repeat. And who is not geared FFS name me a solo ranked player from best known who isn't yet geared? I've seen all classes with 306 gear and I don't play that much only a few hours during late evening or night. Gear isn't an excuse in 6.0 as you just farm FP for 2-3 days and got your gear and enough point for set bonus while doing this. IDK why everyone defending sins want to wait till miracle happens and more OP class shows up. I don't believe in this.

[DzastinBiberi]

Screen shots of your words pls. Difficult to believe in ur stats with that gear if only ur enemies were just standing like target dummied while you recked them

 

So, let's start.

 

Jugg skank (arena, I dont remember the gear rating tbh)

 

https://files.fm/u/c47berru#/view/IMG_20191010_031426.jpg

 

MM Sniper close to 71k hit ambush (272 gear).

 

https://files.fm/u/c47berru#/view/IMG_20191005_175945.jpg

 

Anni Mara (arena, 274 gear with set bonus)

 

https://files.fm/u/c47berru#/view/IMG_20191006_082301.jpg

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Yeah, don't focus Sin and what his damage will be average or low? Don't say you haven't seen arenas where Sins do almost twice as damage as second place. You don't focus them and they will solo win you game. You focus them they still do burst fase and H2F and repeat. And who is not geared FFS name me a solo ranked player from best known who isn't yet geared? I've seen all classes with 306 gear and I don't play that much only a few hours during late evening or night. Gear isn't an excuse in 6.0 as you just farm FP for 2-3 days and got your gear and enough point for set bonus while doing this. IDK why everyone defending sins want to wait till miracle happens and more OP class shows up. I don't believe in this.

 

Friend, I really have to assume you don't play sin at all. I have to assume this because it's generally people who do not play certain classes that are the first to present false information under the premise that it is true.

 

ANY class who is left alone can do things, go figure. A sniper who is left alone can solo a whole team. A Marauder who is left alone can solo a whole team. Even a Lightning sorc who is left alone can solo a whole team. The entire point of soloing a team when you're left alone is a very ignorant one to make.

 

And gear is an excuse. Not everyone has no lifed min/max gear in the first 2 weeks of the expansion. If you don't believe more classes will show up, that just means that you're misinformed about where the meta is right now and who the key players are. That's fine, but at least stop projecting like you understand things that you clearly have no clue about.

[Seterade]

just going to point out 1 thing... if your stealth is minmaxed, so are all your classes.... just minus set bonus and tact (which you would get from wzs... so it isnt that much faster than a stlth)

 

legacy, remember?

Edited November 5, 2019 by Seterade

[helpmewin]

Pls, show me on doll where the bad assasins touched you.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

just going to point out 1 thing... if your stealth is minmaxed, so are all your classes.... just minus set bonus and tact (which you would get from wzs... so it isnt that much faster than a stlth)

 

legacy, remember?

 

No? Because set bonus accounts for ALL of sin's burst. I can't tell if you're trolling or not lol. Take off your Death Knell set bonus and throw your mods into some cartel market fashionscape gear and I want you to show me a screenshot of these 60-80k mauls that are such an issue.

 

Item Rating is literally nothing, in case you didn't know, ALL classes are bolstered to 306 item rating in warzones. What enables classes to do the things they do is their set bonuses.

 

just minus set bonus and tact

 

Yea, you're totally min/maxed and your class is geared! (Except for the most important part of what enables each class to do their powerful thing )

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[UltraFlashStar]

5 Stages of Impending Class Nerfs: Right now we’re inbetween Denial and Anger.

[Lhancelot]

 

And gear is an excuse. Not everyone has no lifed min/max gear in the first 2 weeks of the expansion. If you don't believe more classes will show up...

 

Agreed, not everyone no-lifes the FPs for 2-3 days non-stop to get fully geared ASAP.

 

I also agree that only the surface been touched with 6.0, once people really have more time to test things out, and find things out we will see more examples of what sins are doing. I guess sins just got figured out first.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Agreed, not everyone no-lifes the FPs for 2-3 days non-stop to get fully geared ASAP.

 

I also agree that only the surface been touched with 6.0, once people really have more time to test things out, and find things out we will see more examples of what sins are doing. I guess sins just got figured out first.

 

TBH, if you just ran Hammer Station 3 times a day since 6.0 launch, you'd already be 306 and have a number of random tacticals and random set pieces. That's what...? 45 mins a day?

 

People be lazy.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Monterone]

No? Because set bonus accounts for ALL of sin's burst. I can't tell if you're trolling or not lol. Take off your Death Knell set bonus and throw your mods into some cartel market fashionscape gear and I want you to show me a screenshot of these 60-80k mauls that are such an issue.

 

Item Rating is literally nothing, in case you didn't know, ALL classes are bolstered to 306 item rating in warzones. What enables classes to do the things they do is their set bonuses.

 

 

 

Yea, you're totally min/maxed and your class is geared! (Except for the most important part of what enables each class to do their powerful thing )

 

I think what he's saying is if your stealth is min/maxed then anything else is a couple of days from being min/maxed too.

 

I have a full set of min/maxed Gathering Storm with implants and tacticals waiting for my sorc, and Pelvic Sorcery is still at level 70.

 

All tech frags I get now go to whatever other character I think of. Loving the gearing in this patch. Thanks BW.

[limenutpen]

So if we make balance changes when we only get to see sin fully geared, and then it turns out that “oops, turns out it was pretty balanced because we have classes like PT doing 20k DPS in arenas and doing 90k AoE damage while sin has a good opener but only pulls 8k dps by comparison” well by then it’s too late and the damage is done.

 

I promise you, there are multiple classes that are literally leagues ahead of Assassin for damage. The literal only thing sin has atm over the other classes is a strong first 10 seconds of a match.

 

Come on you are better then this. This not because of the burst alone it is all that comes after it in those five seconds. Stun x3 burst and you are dead. Sins have been good in this but now they are a step above the rest.

 

You know better then everyone that PvP is not about DPS it is more about burst damage. Many times I had dott DPS doing 6k plus or more dps in ranked 5.0 Season 11 I always lose. Why cause it does not even kill the mosquito running in the Arena, it just tickles them for 5 mins. The problem is that these people feel good cause they did 6k dps, and start to blame everyone else.

6k dot dps without burst is like a soccer football team having 20 shots to goal with may be only 2 on target and still no goals.

[Lhancelot]

I think what he's saying is if your stealth is min/maxed then anything else is a couple of days from being min/maxed too.

 

That might be what I do, just roll a new stealth and have fun gearing them up via FP spam when I got time. I have very limited time to play now, I guess cheesing the gearing system would suit me best anyway.

[Monterone]

That might be what I do, just roll a new stealth and have fun gearing them up via FP spam when I got time. I have very limited time to play now, I guess cheesing the gearing system would suit me best anyway.

 

You could do it with a Mara too. Any class can kill the boss, the trick is just to save time by avoiding the trash. And mara can now camo often enough to avoid most of the trash anyway.

[Lhancelot]

You could do it with a Mara too. Any class can kill the boss, the trick is just to save time by avoiding the trash. And mara can now camo often enough to avoid most of the trash anyway.

 

Nice, I wish I could mara, I just can't lol. I am better on sins and have not played one in a long while so might try one again. If i despise the sin, maybe I could do a healing ops instead seeing I just need stealth.

 

Thanks for the mara recommendation, but to save everyone else from my badness I will not roll a mara.

[TrixxieTriss]

You could do it with a Mara too. Any class can kill the boss, the trick is just to save time by avoiding the trash. And mara can now camo often enough to avoid most of the trash anyway.

 

Confirmed. My wife and I have been doing this on our two Mara’s. While you can’t stealth past every trash group like you can on a Sin, you can get past 80%.

[Seterade]

No? Because set bonus accounts for ALL of sin's burst. I can't tell if you're trolling or not lol. Take off your Death Knell set bonus and throw your mods into some cartel market fashionscape gear and I want you to show me a screenshot of these 60-80k mauls that are such an issue.

 

Item Rating is literally nothing, in case you didn't know, ALL classes are bolstered to 306 item rating in warzones. What enables classes to do the things they do is their set bonuses.

 

 

 

Yea, you're totally min/maxed and your class is geared! (Except for the most important part of what enables each class to do their powerful thing )

 

no... Im not trolling, nor am I currently playing fotm. I dont have a single setbonus. no, I have been enjoying playing op, mara, jugg.. and today Im going to play AP PT. I didnt claim any 60k crits either... my 306 jugg has 50k as his highest. no all I said was use your stealth to gear your classes, then earn the set bonus and tactical in wzs. this was a direct responce to the assumption that only stlth are geared in the first week.

[TrixxieTriss]

Nice, I wish I could mara, I just can't lol. I am better on sins and have not played one in a long while so might try one again. If i despise the sin, maybe I could do a healing ops instead seeing I just need stealth.

 

Thanks for the mara recommendation, but to save everyone else from my badness I will not roll a mara.

 

Everyone is on the nerf Sin band wagon for pvp, but if you run flash points solo or in a pair, you get to see just how much damage they can do in pve compared to other classes.

 

My wife and I have been running dual deception, dual fury and dual rage runs in MM red reaper. I can say without a doubt that the Sins take the longest to kill the bosses. Even the first boss where you can not leap or shadow stride, the maras and jugs kill the boss faster. He literally melts under a Mara attack and we can kill the last boss before he even gets his second lot of goons out.

 

Sins have a good opener, but their actual dps after that is ho hum when you compare it to Maras and Juggs. Of course there are other factors in pvp besides dps output, but if you nerf a sin’s dps in pvp, you nerf it in pve too. This is something pvpers (myself included), often overlook.

Edited November 5, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[mickym]

Wait... Posting on the forums because you pulled 8.7k dps on a decep sin when the damage has been doubled this patch? Thank you for the confirmation that deception should be nerfed because you hit the occasional 70k in regs and pulled 8.7k dps.

 

Copy and pasting some of this from another thread btw;

 

First of all, the cloaks don't even work at the moment as they don't recharge properly after round ends, but it's clear that you've spent more time on the forums than actually playing the game so we'll move past that. Deception IS squishier than it was before, we have an extra cloak which doesn't work other than in 1 round. We went from having 60% DR on force speed to 25% which is a massive decrease. Deflection sucks, Shroud and cloak are both good and I'm sure two cloaks will be good when it works. Compare that to a Mara who can stealth out more than sins or operatives can at the moment, undying rage, obfuscate, cloak of pain, saber ward and on top of all that do great dps.

 

It's quite easy to die through life warden when it first goes off, if 2 or more people catch you in a hardstun and you got no breaker left, you're done. It doesn't heal that fast. However, this should definitely be fixed so that mid round you can't switch tacticals when they actually manage to fix how cloak recharges.

 

We are simply a glass-cannon now, which isn't a bad thing at all. But some people are really overrating how sins are and some people even underrating how sins were before.

 

TLDR; sin is a glass-cannon, our defence is worse this patch than it was and that was already on the lower side. There are other classes with much better cooldowns and still pull sick dps.

 

Getting sick of seeing these threads by ill-informed people who clearly spend 90% of their time on the forums rather than playing the actual game and clearly never understood how sin works PRE-6.0 or in 6.0.

[ajiehblr]

Friend, I really have to assume you don't play sin at all. I have to assume this because it's generally people who do not play certain classes that are the first to present false information under the premise that it is true.

 

ANY class who is left alone can do things, go figure. A sniper who is left alone can solo a whole team. A Marauder who is left alone can solo a whole team. Even a Lightning sorc who is left alone can solo a whole team. The entire point of soloing a team when you're left alone is a very ignorant one to make.

 

And gear is an excuse. Not everyone has no lifed min/max gear in the first 2 weeks of the expansion. If you don't believe more classes will show up, that just means that you're misinformed about where the meta is right now and who the key players are. That's fine, but at least stop projecting like you understand things that you clearly have no clue about.

 

Then what about your whine that Sins have no sustain damage? It seems they are perfectly well with this from your own words every class is good in sustain if you let them free-cast. Stop saying that except from burst sins don't have anything. They do have and they can do a lot of damage + they have this insane starter burst. Trying to defend broken class just because you are playing it - this is ignorant. And no - gear isn't an excuse because of boolster and becasue how easy is to obtain set bonus just doing FP.

[ajiehblr]

Wait... Posting on the forums because you pulled 8.7k dps on a decep sin when the damage has been doubled this patch? Thank you for the confirmation that deception should be nerfed because you hit the occasional 70k in regs and pulled 8.7k dps.

 

Copy and pasting some of this from another thread btw;

 

First of all, the cloaks don't even work at the moment as they don't recharge properly after round ends, but it's clear that you've spent more time on the forums than actually playing the game so we'll move past that. Deception IS squishier than it was before, we have an extra cloak which doesn't work other than in 1 round. We went from having 60% DR on force speed to 25% which is a massive decrease. Deflection sucks, Shroud and cloak are both good and I'm sure two cloaks will be good when it works. Compare that to a Mara who can stealth out more than sins or operatives can at the moment, undying rage, obfuscate, cloak of pain, saber ward and on top of all that do great dps.

 

It's quite easy to die through life warden when it first goes off, if 2 or more people catch you in a hardstun and you got no breaker left, you're done. It doesn't heal that fast. However, this should definitely be fixed so that mid round you can't switch tacticals when they actually manage to fix how cloak recharges.

 

We are simply a glass-cannon now, which isn't a bad thing at all. But some people are really overrating how sins are and some people even underrating how sins were before.

 

TLDR; sin is a glass-cannon, our defence is worse this patch than it was and that was already on the lower side. There are other classes with much better cooldowns and still pull sick dps.

 

Getting sick of seeing these threads by ill-informed people who clearly spend 90% of their time on the forums rather than playing the actual game and clearly never understood how sin works PRE-6.0 or in 6.0.

 

Well good luck with SR queue and finding a single game with only 1 Sin on both teams. They are everywhere and people are aware how they perform.

[mickym]

Well good luck with SR queue and finding a single game with only 1 Sin on both teams. They are everywhere and people are aware how they perform.

 

and the rerollers are always global targets.

[Eastiano]

Sins are ok, I did 10-12k dps today on a vg dps, mara and operative just on lowbies for some cq mats farming and I’m like moderately skilled even on my best day 😅.

Most dps specs seem around the same capabilities numberwise, ofc u will get deleted vs 2 or 3 dec sins but same can be said for any stacked dps class