A plea to Bioware writers - improve the story in future updates. Significantly.

[Lhancelot]

We must have played different games, OP.

 

It's art so it's very subjective whether or not the story is "better" or "worse" than past stories. That being said, I find the newest story more like the original chapters compared to any other later stories written.

 

I think the Alliance plot line was campy and silly, I also never fully could embrace the whole "Commander of the Galaxy" plot. I just felt like it was too unrealistic and way too self-serving no matter how you tried to direct your own narrative.

 

Since Ossus I think there's been an added quality to the game. As someone else said earlier in the thread, the only negative is there's not enough of it.

[Suzsi]

It was about securing a short-term supply of fuel for a single battle, not about discovering what happened to the Republic's former sources of fuel. And it did nothing to establish some kind of long-term solution for resource shortages.

 

Considering they have been in a war for 7+ years with the eternal alliance it doesn't take a genius to figure out that facilities like that would have been the first things destroyed. The eternal alliance crippled both the empire and the republic by choaking their resources. There is no mystery to discover when the answer is so simple.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Suzsi

[JakRoanin]

Considering they have been in a war for 7+ years with the eternal alliance it doesn't take a genius to figure out that facilities like that would have been the first things destroyed. The eternal alliance crippled both the empire and the republic by choaking their resources. There is no mystery to discover when the answer is so simple.

 

I think that you mean The Eternal Empire

[Nefla]

I liked Jedi Under Siege and Onslaught but I have to say neither one was amazing or really made me excited. I'm someone who didn't care either way whether we were doing traditional Empire vs Republic or something else so that doesn't factor into my opinion. I just wanted something longer and more involved, I wanted more new and interesting NPCs to interact with (we got a few) new cultures and lore to experience, I really miss our companions and their interactions and input as well. This felt fine but formulaic and expected, it didn't elicit any strong emotions from me (aside from frustration when playing a saboteur and not being able to openly support my chosen side). If we were getting regular story updates every 1-3 months this would be fine but for something we had to wait a year for and will likely have to wait another year to continue? It's not enough.

[SerraShar]

This is a continuation of KOTOR, one of your greatest storytelling triumphs. This is a continuation of KOTOR 2 - argubly one of the best, deepest and most thought-provoking video games & Star Wars stories ever written. This is a continuation of some really great & unique class stories, as well as expansions such as KOTFEET which, while far from perfect, still oozed with new & interesting ideas and clear writer enthusiasm behind.

 

This is NOT The continuation of KOTOR 2 . God , peoples..wake up!!!!

 

Its insulting to Kotor 2 , to tie it to this game .

 

They fast forwarded 100 years, so they didn't have to make a Kotor 3 . This is NOT kotor 3 . The JK Story is NOT the Kotor 3 . None of them are .

 

Sheesh...

 

Well I though Onslaught was still better then that jerry springer show of Kotfe and Kotet. So there is that

[jedimasterjac]

Considering they have been in a war for 7+ years with the eternal alliance it doesn't take a genius to figure out that facilities like that would have been the first things destroyed. The eternal alliance crippled both the empire and the republic by choaking their resources. There is no mystery to discover when the answer is so simple.

 

Yeah, and the Republic's literally always had fuel problems.

 

I mean, in KotOR II, the loss of Peragus -- a single source of fuel -- was enough to threaten an entire planet's operations, and much of the Republic's operations in the Outer Rim.

 

So I'm not sure how or why it's inconceivable that the Republic of today -- a bloated, struggling nation which has armed itself, lost much of its resources, and is struggling to re-arm -- might not have many reliable sources of energy.

[LordVitalus]

This is NOT The continuation of KOTOR 2 . God , peoples..wake up!!!!

 

Its insulting to Kotor 2 , to tie it to this game .

 

If we use Kotor 2 as reference, very few stories will stand.

[SerraShar]

If we use Kotor 2 as reference, very few stories will stand.

 

and that's how it should be. There are too many copy paste games as it is. Games should stand on their own. Not be ''From the creator of X and Y great Games, Buy this game and feel the same way you did Years AGO! '' just to find out..its NOTHING like that Y and X Games .

 

Its a misleading horrible tactic , and its destroying and souring the community that love games for what they give.

 

Not what they should be...

[JennyFlynn]

I'm enjoying Onslaught plenty and there are some old story/class tie-ins I really appreciate as well. Like, it seems right Deefour and Jakarro would show up on Onderon after all his talk of serving its former Queen. The class flavor on both sides is very much appreciated, including the mention of Jadus and the things your Sith Inquisitor can say/do. Lovely touch on Mando culture if you bring Shae with you to talk to Indigo on Mek-Sha. Cutscenes are well done and pretty lengthy in some cases, which I enjoy. Playing a saboteur is hilarious, I laughed so hard at my Bounty Hunter's 'inspiring speech' to the troops after Ossus. Overall I'm really happy, and I'm actually enjoying myself taking alts through at the moment rather than dreading another 'slog' as I used to with KOTFEET. I'm also really intrigued by the story developing 'behind the scenes' of the war so to speak, between Malgus' state and Satele's/her Jedi.

 

I'd say the only bit of writing I am thus far missing is the letter from our original LIs/Arcann etc. There probably wasn't any time so I'm hoping something will follow in the future. It's my only real gripe--that we seem to have to exchange our existing romances for new ones if we want any conversation/flirting in the new content--unless you're dating Theron or Lana. Not fond of the trend of new expacs/content leaving our old romances in the dust while pushing new folks our way, I'd rather have both, but it's early days so we'll see what comes of that.

[SerraShar]

unless you're dating Theron or Lana.

 

Not even..

 

Lana is bugged for Imp side . We didn't get Squat.

 

Only on the repb you get a tiny cutscene, before Tomatoe and Kira show up.

 

And the Repb side is buggy like hell in the expansion. I'm running a new toon from the beginning (Lvl1) until they fix the stuff and bugs .

[Slurmez]

One story for all sucks, its always going to be poor and an awkward fit "everyone becomes king of the universe and then goes right back to being a stooge". The whole building up to the Eternal Empire outlander garbage was just terrible and whoever wrote that should find a new profession. Luke, Obi Wan hell even Vader and hell, even Palpatine who wanted to be Emperor of the Universe were just cogs in a bigger machine and yet you make everyones character, be they a Sith Lord, a smuggler or a grunt become supreme being and then write more poor stories to try and knock them off the top of the heap and all the while they are supposed to be fetching datapads and other mundane activities. "I united sith and republic factions, now to go and do everyones laundry....."

 

Bioware still havent got a handle on MMOs, they think this is a single player game and treat it accordingly and while the one size fits all story may work for a select few careers and characters its absolute trash for the majority, I would honestly sooner do without it than have to do the same tedious bunk over and over again mashing the space bar for every class because for most of them you are a prisoner in someone elses storyline, one which makes no absolutely no sense for them.

 

Original class stories were great (bar the Trooper one which was absolute trash) and its a shame to think there are probably treatments for them going on for some time which never got used because they had to swap to the one size fits all mess. If they had invested in voice software instead of thinking they were making movies with all the voice actors they would have future proofed themselves, saved a boatload of money and stories could have been expansive, interesting and a real selling point.

 

Bioware has been a sinking ship for some time, Anthem only proved the point and the rot is at the top.

[mountiandewkills]

I've told this to Charles and I'll say it here. The new story is 3 dimensional. I literally have sat on a LS/DS choice screen actually contemplating instead of button smashing LS.

 

My LS (I'll call her chaotic good because she means well) operative has been a double agent. She's in it for the good of the people but her definition of good isn't always being Mary Poppins.

 

The new story:

 

First big choice - Do you kill the King on Onderon? Letting him live sees the Republic backed lady taken into custody. Killing him stops him from continuing to be a pawn for the Empire. As a LS character, this is a deep, impactful decision. Do you kill someone who is stupidly innocent so he can't be used as a puppet so you can protect the masses and also work towards your goal of helping the Republic? Or do you stay true to being a good person by letting more bad things happen.

 

Mek-Sha and Shaar. Slavery, bullying, you name it. Shaar is nice. Getting her darling letter post after what I did to her made me feel a bit bad. Do you let her live so the Empire can bully Mek Sha and use it as a refueling station or do you kill her to aid the Republic?

 

At the end of this, taking a look at what my LS character has done, I'm now seeing a character going down a dark path, killing people along the way to achieve goals of aiding the Republic. She's changing. This story is changing her. How far will she go to help the Republic, how far is too far? Where does it stop? Will she lose who she is in the process?

 

Each decision on my saboteur character has been thought out at length. If I do this, what's the consequences, if I don't do this what's the consequences. Will she get caught going too far? (eh, probably not, and someone replied to my thread previously that maybe the Emperor knows her deceit already and is using her as the invisible hand to eliminate his competition.

 

 

So for that reason the story is intricate, interesting, and fun. I've only played it on a saboteur operative . If I get a chance to get Nathema done on my JK, then I'll move ahead to the new stuff with my Jedi Knight to see the Republic side of things.

 

 

Depending on how you play your toon your imp A can be like that throughout their whole story at least it was for me. My Imp who is a patriot believing the sith shouldn't rule over the empire and that the empire does need to change to survive has made LS and DS choices throughout their story, My imp (aninus) believes that innocent causalities is absolutely a new go and that the empire's citizens need to be protected however they're also not against putting a cap in some republic soldiers or anyone who tries to harm him or the empire he wishes to protect.

[mountiandewkills]

Is it our job to tell writers what we think is good? Was it our job on the PTS to engage in professional testing? We're the player base with our own opinions of what is and isn't a good story, but most of us aren't professional video game writers-- so far as I know, anyway. Every single time someone doesn't like something, gives some critique that isn't glowing, this line of thinking comes up. It's straight up invalid. Critique and feedback comes from all sources, and we're all entitled to state our likes and dislikes as paying customers of Bioware and EA.

 

That said, what I'd think would be interesting:

 

We've been told everyone is short on resources like food and fuel. So why isn't anyone actually investigating? Why aren't we as a third party, engaged in that line of inquiry? I'd like to see some detective work. I'd like to visit resource-heavy worlds and find ways to court their influence. Help build decimated worlds, engage in diplomacy or subterfuge to sway their allegiance.

 

So, go in depth on Onderon. You've got twin societies of Beast Riders and city folk. Find ways to influence and sway them to your side. Or choose one of the two and find a way to build them into allies, either with a major storyline or a smaller series of side quests that helps either or both sides with their biggest struggles.

 

Do something similar on Mek-Sha. Develop the worlds and the politics like the old planetary questlines used to.

 

Throwing away resources on war in a time of massive scarcity including basics like fuel is complete stupidity. Lay some groundwork first. Figure out what's really going on. Maybe have the war begin on as a tangential activity while we're trying to find the story behind the story. Or maybe let our actions in building what's been broken serve as an economic or social foundation for a new war.

 

Through in a third option too where you can take said resources for the eternal alliance and say suck it to both sides xD

[JainiaDral]

Considering they have been in a war for 7+ years with the eternal alliance it doesn't take a genius to figure out that facilities like that would have been the first things destroyed. The eternal alliance crippled both the empire and the republic by choaking their resources. There is no mystery to discover when the answer is so simple.

 

That's actually wrong. Both sides surrendered within a year according to Lana's summary and signed a treaty with the Eternal Empire which required both sides to surrender massive amounts of raw materials to Zakuul. None of these resources were used by the Eternal Empire, but instead vanished into thin air. In the meantime, Pubs and Imps continued to take potshots at each other-- hardly 7 years of war.

 

Lana tried to track the materials with no luck. And we've still had zero luck and made no progress on a clear central plot point.

 

Proof starting at about 10 mins in (not my video):

[JainiaDral]

Through in a third option too where you can take said resources for the eternal alliance and say suck it to both sides xD

 

I totally want this! Pretty please

[casirabit]

I'm enjoying Onslaught plenty and there are some old story/class tie-ins I really appreciate as well. Like, it seems right Deefour and Jakarro would show up on Onderon after all his talk of serving its former Queen. The class flavor on both sides is very much appreciated, including the mention of Jadus and the things your Sith Inquisitor can say/do. Lovely touch on Mando culture if you bring Shae with you to talk to Indigo on Mek-Sha. Cutscenes are well done and pretty lengthy in some cases, which I enjoy. Playing a saboteur is hilarious, I laughed so hard at my Bounty Hunter's 'inspiring speech' to the troops after Ossus. Overall I'm really happy, and I'm actually enjoying myself taking alts through at the moment rather than dreading another 'slog' as I used to with KOTFEET. I'm also really intrigued by the story developing 'behind the scenes' of the war so to speak, between Malgus' state and Satele's/her Jedi.

 

I'd say the only bit of writing I am thus far missing is the letter from our original LIs/Arcann etc. There probably wasn't any time so I'm hoping something will follow in the future. It's my only real gripe--that we seem to have to exchange our existing romances for new ones if we want any conversation/flirting in the new content--unless you're dating Theron or Lana. Not fond of the trend of new expacs/content leaving our old romances in the dust while pushing new folks our way, I'd rather have both, but it's early days so we'll see what comes of that.

 

I would advise if you Jedi Knight is dating Arcann and wants to start a relationship with Scrouge be prepared for the letter Arcann sends you afterwards...... Almost made my Jedi Sentinel feel guilty.

[JennyFlynn]

I would advise if you Jedi Knight is dating Arcann and wants to start a relationship with Scrouge be prepared for the letter Arcann sends you afterwards...... Almost made my Jedi Sentinel feel guilty.

If you can toss it into a spoiler, I'd love that. Luckily, I have my LS Sith Warrior dating Arcann and no plans on dumping him for now. I don't think that one is unique to Onslaught though, but possibly the default 'dumping' letter you get from Arcann also if you say, take Theron back post Nathema.

Edited November 2, 2019 by JennyFlynn

[jedimasterjac]

Also, I kinda like the way this is phrased as if you can just buff a story, lol

[Suzsi]

I think that you mean The Eternal Empire

 

Close enough Lol but yes

[Suzsi]

That's actually wrong. Both sides surrendered within a year according to Lana's summary and signed a treaty with the Eternal Empire which required both sides to surrender massive amounts of raw materials to Zakuul. None of these resources were used by the Eternal Empire, but instead vanished into thin air. In the meantime, Pubs and Imps continued to take potshots at each other-- hardly 7 years of war.

 

Lana tried to track the materials with no luck. And we've still had zero luck and made no progress on a clear central plot point.

 

Proof starting at about 10 mins in (not my video):

 

They hardly have time to go looking for resources they couldn't find when there is a war breathing down their necks though. The war with Arcann is still the reason for the lack of resouces. They wouldn't have surrendered if they weren't loosing, badly.

 

Many core worlds were also blockaided by star fortresses, making it virtually impossible to ferry around even basic supplies (food and medical aide). Meaning they couldn't have started up any new mining operations easily in that time either.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Suzsi

[Darth-Obvious]

Third problem, of course, is quality of story telling. It's no surprise, that quality of story telling has been dropping since the launch, until finally reaching the botton - Iokath and pretty much all of KOTET. Story in Onslought is extremely short, mediocre and predictable. They had 3 bloody years and that's all they came up with, really?

Of course, some people are using an excuse that studio is smaller. Well, first of all, i couldn't care less. It's not as if they had 2 weeks to come up with everything. Beyond that, OP makes a good point, writers aren't the programmers, they don't program actual stuff in the game, they write the story. And all we got in this new expansion (which it's not, it's a small DLC) is 4 hour mediocre story line. Great...

 

What you don't understand is that while a writer can write anything, the programmers, artists, etc, can't always do what someone writes. Concessions have to me made in development & the writing is always going to suffer for it.

 

You and other people seem to be under the impression that everything starts with the writing, and while that's the case for entertainment like TV & Movies, it's rarely the case with game development. With game development, it's almost always "Here's the thing we're making or can make, now what story can we add into or around the thing we're making." The scenario you're envisioning where the writer writes some amazing story & the devs go from there and are able to do it, is a fantasy. Video game development almost never works that way.

 

Now, onto the studio. Yesterday, EA said, that swtor is close to reaching 1 billion in revenue. We don't know, how much did they get in last 5 years, but it's sure more than 300 million. So, looking at this number and, for example, looking at revenue made by GW2, i just keep wondering, where is our content. For years people were using an excuse of poor revenue and working on Anthem Well, it's not as low as we thought and no one is really working on Anthem anymore, so what is an excuse now? Where is new content? Where is roadmap?

 

Anthem came out this year. If Bioware Austin was committed to working on the game up until release and a little bit after it's amazing that Onslaught even came out this year. As for the money SWTOR makes, it tends to go into other EA projects, R&D, etc. If SWTOR makes money as is with the annual budget EA has been providing them with for years why would EA dump more money into the game than is necessary? From a business perspective, EA would see no reason do to so if SWTOR is making them lots of money without them having to spend hardly anything on it.

[Estelindis]

What you don't understand is that while a writer can write anything, the programmers, artists, etc, can't always do what someone writes. Concessions have to me made in development & the writing is always going to suffer for it.

 

You and other people seem to be under the impression that everything starts with the writing, and while that's the case for entertainment like TV & Movies, it's rarely the case with game development. With game development, it's almost always "Here's the thing we're making or can make, now what story can we add into or around the thing we're making." The scenario you're envisioning where the writer writes some amazing story & the devs go from there and are able to do it, is a fantasy. Video game development almost never works that way.

This is a very good point. In plenty of games, the writing is actually one of the last things to happen in the development process, and is pretty much tacked on at the end. We are lucky this isn't an approach BW takes. Still, even with a story-heavy developer like BW, story is not free of all limitations otherwise imposed.

 

Without imagining that every aspect of development flows from the story, rather than story sometimes being restricted by other aspects of development, I think we can still comment on what parts of the story we enjoyed, what parts we didn't, and what we'd like to see going forwards.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Estelindis

[Darkbloom]

This story is what I wanted from 4.0 and 5.0. A story where my choices at least feel like they matter, because that makes my character in the story the main character of the story.

 

I do wish they hadn't killed off or pushed away so many great characters from vanilla in previous story iterations. And I would have liked to hear Vette say something about the slavery on Mek-Sha. And so on.

 

But man, if they had created stories like this for 4.0 and 5.0, with the budget they had then...sigh.

[NjordBuri]

Somehow Onslaught did not impress me. A story has to be set up exciting. I miss that. The many secondary characters do not provide for the tension, rather for confusion. Star Wars offers much more. Explore ancient artifacts, ruins, tombs. Shows what it means to belong to the light or dark side. Build surprising twists.

Unfortunately Onslaught is not the big story.