Scaling Tech in Group Content Feedback

[Stookydroid]

this is a terrible idea. please don't implement this in 6.0.

Your goal from what it seems like is balancing the ops well once, and then not having to redo the balance every expansion. This does not work. Expansions bring new player abilities/setbonuses/tacticals that break the previous balance. With expansions, raids MUST be rebalanced. Furthermore, level sync is always awful, as you can't perfectly replicate old ilvls with current gear due to tertiary stats, and making players basically bolster to a certain levle of all the stats make gearing 100% irrelevant except to get setbonus.

Please, do not implement scaling in raids. It causes far, far more problems than it solves, and will result in raids being completely broken

[Soul_of_Flames]

Scaling tech is a bad idea in more ways than one.

 

First and foremost, it eliminates the point of actually gearing up. If you're going to implement scaling tech, then you're basically trying to fundamentally change a core baseline of the game. You might as well remove all leveling mechanics entirely and make all gear cosmetic while making people's "skill" be based solely on how they set up their set bonuses, utilities and tacticals/amps.

 

Secondly, how do you balance the loot when a group is made up of players of various levels? If you run EV HM with 7 level 75 players and 1 level 50, how do you balance the loot if a level 75 wins a piece vs if the level 50 wins?

 

 

Now, I fully understand WHY you want to have scaling tech. It keeps old content relevant longer so you don't have to rush new content out. But it just does not work with the game's gearing and leveling systems.

 

I suggest that instead of scaling player effectiveness, you scale the loot.

1. If you are BELOW or AT level, you get the loot relevant to the target level.

2. If you are ABOVE level, you get commendations/materials as loot. The amount you get would scale depending on how much above the target level you are and would bottom out at about a 10 level difference.

 

In addition to the above, you SHOULD include the OPTION to scale content to the group if the group wants to attempt the content for the challenge (or for a weekly mission or whatever). But doing so should basically eliminate any loot drops, or normalize them as comms/mats.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Soul_of_Flames

[zorngodofall]

I was having a discussion in a relevant raiding discord today about level scaling with people and it occurred to me why I have such a big issue with this. I personally don't like change,especially when something works and especially not this kind of change. having ops at different levels all over the place is going to bug me a lot personally, and I fully believe it's going to bother a lot of other people as well.

 

It's a silly argument but it's probably the biggest and most important one here. Who wants at max level to do content 20 levels below them? How does that even make sense that some of the hardest content in the game is going to be far below max level? Isn't that really contradictory to how progression and games work? Things get tougher the farther you get a long?

 

Personally I think people are going to put up with it, but we will all hate it. I don't think anyone even people who don't mind this system actually want level sync.

 

Maybe that's the biggest mistake here. Noone wants this. It doesn't solve a problem, it doesn't add something, it just makes raiding weird, leveling weird, character progression weird and adds layers of complication and weirdness to something that already works.

 

This is honestly just a bad idea that will probably be rejected once it's been in the game awhile and when devs see that noone is running old content anymore aside from the nostalgia factor. I also shouldn't have to add an explanation into why a game with such rare updates shouldn't be throwing away old content or having people not want to do old content.

[Zinadu]

this is a terrible idea. please don't implement this in 6.0.

Your goal from what it seems like is balancing the ops well once, and then not having to redo the balance every expansion. This does not work. Expansions bring new player abilities/setbonuses/tacticals that break the previous balance. With expansions, raids MUST be rebalanced. Furthermore, level sync is always awful, as you can't perfectly replicate old ilvls with current gear due to tertiary stats, and making players basically bolster to a certain levle of all the stats make gearing 100% irrelevant except to get setbonus.

Please, do not implement scaling in raids. It causes far, far more problems than it solves, and will result in raids being completely broken

 

My other concern is also classes balances will be super out of wack depending on which ones scale crit better if they sink down.

[Iymurra]

It's a silly argument but it's probably the biggest and most important one here. Who wants at max level to do content 20 levels below them? How does that even make sense that some of the hardest content in the game is going to be far below max level? Isn't that really contradictory to how progression and games work? Things get tougher the farther you get a long?

 

The question I would pose in response is how is the current content any different?

 

Scaling content down just means that your Bonus Damage and Health are capped. Thats it.

Crit, Alacrity, Accuracy... these are all your gearing targets.

 

Sure your health is lower, but the incoming damage is lower as well. Sure you're doing less numbers, but the enemies have less numbers as well.

This isn't like other games where you're scaled down and lose access to abilities and the like, a level 75 will have access to their entire kit while synced down as well as all the utilities. All this is is balancing the content such that they don't have to rebalance it every level cap increase and they can instead spend that effort on other things.

 

Basically: playing at a scaled level is functionally identical to playing at level cap in this game with one caveat: stat rating increases have no effect on mastery, power or endurance while synced.

 

If they can solve the issue of secondary stats not functioning while synced or create a solution that eliminates the problem then we're all good. Dev time is freed up and the operations remain at a constant balance state while we play our classes exactly as it is now save with lower numbers (equal in relation to the content). The community will adapt, we already know that different numbers are good on different bosses (i.e. Soa is utter **** for DPS while TFB give significant uptime) and the community will arrive at good relative numbers for these bosses with a little adjustment.

 

 

TL;DR Numbers are pointless aside from relation to the content and the content isn't "new and exciting" when its scaled up to level cap with each expansion as none of the mechanics change, its just scaling in a way which creates more work for the devs and ties up more development time.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

The question I would pose in response is how is the current content any different?

 

Scaling content down just means that your Bonus Damage and Health are capped. Thats it.

Crit, Alacrity, Accuracy... these are all your gearing targets.

 

Sure your health is lower, but the incoming damage is lower as well. Sure you're doing less numbers, but the enemies have less numbers as well.

This isn't like other games where you're scaled down and lose access to abilities and the like, a level 75 will have access to their entire kit while synced down as well as all the utilities. All this is is balancing the content such that they don't have to rebalance it every level cap increase and they can instead spend that effort on other things.

 

Basically: playing at a scaled level is functionally identical to playing at level cap in this game with one caveat: stat rating increases have no effect on mastery, power or endurance while synced.

 

If they can solve the issue of secondary stats not functioning while synced or create a solution that eliminates the problem then we're all good. Dev time is freed up and the operations remain at a constant balance state while we play our classes exactly as it is now save with lower numbers (equal in relation to the content). The community will adapt, we already know that different numbers are good on different bosses (i.e. Soa is utter **** for DPS while TFB give significant uptime) and the community will arrive at good relative numbers for these bosses with a little adjustment.

 

 

TL;DR Numbers are pointless aside from relation to the content and the content isn't "new and exciting" when its scaled up to level cap with each expansion as none of the mechanics change, its just scaling in a way which creates more work for the devs and ties up more development time.

 

I've seen so many of these arguments that "numbers are all relative anyway so scaling is irrelevant". And this sort of lazy analysis is just missing the second order effects of this change.

 

First, we will have to have different gear sets for different operations. Because power, mastery, and endurance capped for most operations, it's pointless to stack these stats in most operations. However, for the new operation, it may be useful to stack these stats for certain classes. This just adds to the gear grind and that's not a good thing.

 

Second, it is problematic from a parsing standpoint. Right now, if I'm doing 10k dps on a dummy and go into an operation and see that I'm only doing 7k dps, that means that I have an uptime problem. I can go over my parses and see where my uptime problem is coming from. On the other hand, suppose in 6.0 I dummy parse at 20k dps. I walk into SnV and see that I'm parsing at 2k dps. Is that good or bad? Sure I can compare to other people who have done the operation or are in my group, but I can't compare it to my own dummy parsing numbers to understand how I'm doing relative to my theoretical maximum sustained dps. This is bad for people who are trying to learn how to progress through operations.

 

Third, scaling something like EC back to the 2.0 numbers is problematic because we have more abilities than we did in 2.0. Thus, we run the risk of making these operations faceroll easy (as they are on the PTS right now) so that they can be completed with like 3 people. That ruins these operations for anyone who is still learning, reducing the already limited amount of endgame content we have now.

 

Think about the second order consequences of this sort of scaling before you just post something stupid along the lines of "1k dps on a 100k target is same as 10k dps on a 1000k target".

[JediMasterAlex]

I've seen so many of these arguments that "numbers are all relative anyway so scaling is irrelevant". And this sort of lazy analysis is just missing the second order effects of this change.

 

First, we will have to have different gear sets for different operations. Because power, mastery, and endurance capped for most operations, it's pointless to stack these stats in most operations. However, for the new operation, it may be useful to stack these stats for certain classes. This just adds to the gear grind and that's not a good thing.

 

Second, it is problematic from a parsing standpoint. Right now, if I'm doing 10k dps on a dummy and go into an operation and see that I'm only doing 7k dps, that means that I have an uptime problem. I can go over my parses and see where my uptime problem is coming from. On the other hand, suppose in 6.0 I dummy parse at 20k dps. I walk into SnV and see that I'm parsing at 2k dps. Is that good or bad? Sure I can compare to other people who have done the operation or are in my group, but I can't compare it to my own dummy parsing numbers to understand how I'm doing relative to my theoretical maximum sustained dps. This is bad for people who are trying to learn how to progress through operations.

 

These concerns are totally misplaced. There are no specs that will stack mastery or power based on the pts gear, so that's a non-issue.

 

Being obsessed with parsing and numbers is a personal problem for raiders. Numbers are only a means to an end, and it's ridiculous for you or anyone to complain about scaling because it won't match your precious parse numbers. You're just using parsing as a crutch. Learn to adapt.

 

You should really take a step back and think about what you're actually saying. The poster that you're responding to was right on the money.

[ottffsse]

scaling is totally fine as long as ops are balanced well and there is some item to debolster your stats an operation level while parsing - and the dummy's hp accordingly to get a better estimate.

 

real dps/hps improvement comes really from knowing each raid fight and how to improvise/fine tune rotations accordingly to each fight.

 

same for pvp where even more improvisation/kiting/ and good use of dcds and interrupts are needed. doesn't help to parse huge numbers if you get rekked by stun lock and focus fire.

[zorngodofall]

These concerns are totally misplaced. There are no specs that will stack mastery or power based on the pts gear, so that's a non-issue.

 

Being obsessed with parsing and numbers is a personal problem for raiders. Numbers are only a means to an end, and it's ridiculous for you or anyone to complain about scaling because it won't match your precious parse numbers. You're just using parsing as a crutch. Learn to adapt.

 

You should really take a step back and think about what you're actually saying. The poster that you're responding to was right on the money.

 

I am so tired of these pathetic arguments. Noone wants level scaling and even those that say there won't be problems aren't even for it. So why the hell are you trying to debate ppl who have an issue with it? sheesh this is stupid. This ought to be a logical fallacy. Arguing against something you're not even for.

[Leadplayer]

What I ran so far KP HM, DF HM are set way to easy. Heal checks, dps checks and tank checks are about in line with sm on live if not a bit eaiser. Trash and boss's are dying way to fast, if this is a mitigation issue with them or just their hp being set is too low I am not sure.

[ottffsse]

What I ran so far KP HM, DF HM are set way to easy. Heal checks, dps checks and tank checks are about in line with sm on live if not a bit eaiser. Trash and boss's are dying way to fast, if this is a mitigation issue with them or just their hp being set is too low I am not sure.

 

agree with this. hm on pts seems about 25% easier than story mode on live give or take so there is some massive mis-scaling going on, I think stuff was dying at least twice as fast hm/vet op as in the live hm/vet ops. power/mastery relics don't work as there is a hard cap but even that makes no difference.

[phalczen]

The question I would pose in response is how is the current content any different?

 

Scaling content down just means that your Bonus Damage and Health are capped. Thats it.

Crit, Alacrity, Accuracy... these are all your gearing targets.

 

Sure your health is lower, but the incoming damage is lower as well. Sure you're doing less numbers, but the enemies have less numbers as well.

This isn't like other games where you're scaled down and lose access to abilities and the like, a level 75 will have access to their entire kit while synced down as well as all the utilities. All this is is balancing the content such that they don't have to rebalance it every level cap increase and they can instead spend that effort on other things.

 

Basically: playing at a scaled level is functionally identical to playing at level cap in this game with one caveat: stat rating increases have no effect on mastery, power or endurance while synced.

 

If they can solve the issue of secondary stats not functioning while synced or create a solution that eliminates the problem then we're all good. Dev time is freed up and the operations remain at a constant balance state while we play our classes exactly as it is now save with lower numbers (equal in relation to the content). The community will adapt, we already know that different numbers are good on different bosses (i.e. Soa is utter **** for DPS while TFB give significant uptime) and the community will arrive at good relative numbers for these bosses with a little adjustment.

 

 

TL;DR Numbers are pointless aside from relation to the content and the content isn't "new and exciting" when its scaled up to level cap with each expansion as none of the mechanics change, its just scaling in a way which creates more work for the devs and ties up more development time.

 

I think you are right. In the early Dev replies in this thread its clear that the design team isn't concerned with the well-geared, level-capped, experienced players blasting through EV. They are concerned with the fresh level 50, for whom EV was designed, who has always been allowed to queue up for said operation (since launch), having trouble merely because bolster isn't adequate to account for the UP-scaling of the operation to 70 or even 75. This isn't a problem in pvp because there are level brackets, so the ability/utility difference isn't as striking. So, the only options are to divide ops into brackets/tiers, which is kinda what Jerba suggested many pages back, or find a way to level sync everyone down so that fresh 50s have more of the intended experience.

 

Maybe what people should really be testing with this new system isn't what numbers they are parsing at level 75 in BiS gear, but rather a level 50 in appropriate gear, perhaps around rating 140, and getting a group of THOSE players into Eternity Vault or KP and then seeing what happens. Or even a group of 55s in around rating 156 stuff trying Veteran Mode Hammer. Personally, I think the dev team should adjust the boost terminal so that you can choose your level, and maybe provide a few vendors with gear for 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, and 75. Only then will players be able to test the system for what the Devs are most concerned about.

[RikuvonDrake]

Nightmare mode for Operations, DF and DP tested and neither were tuned correctly for an endgame operation, in particular, the last bosses were far easier than expected, apart from the additional mechanics, it felt like an HM raid. The damage dealt by mechanics and bosses is significantly lower than it should be, meaning you can ignore a lot of the things and to a large extent solo heal.

 

At the same time, the health of the bosses, or the damage dealt by DPS is not tuned correctly either, boss fights take far shorter than intended and again this means a lot of mechanics can be ignored which although it creates some fun strategies to reduce boss fight duration by two-thirds compared to live, removes a lot of the fun and challenge from Nightmare and the raids loses a lot of the appeal of doing them again. At the moment it feels like Nightmare is tuned to where Hardmode is on live, and while I only tested a few HM bosses, Hardmode felt a lot like SM.

 

My suggestions on how to improve content would be to upscale damage taken from bosses and mechanics significantly, additionally either reducing the dps of damage dealers (if players are overperforming) or increasing the health of bosses and relevant adds to make boss fights/trash be the usual duration.

 

Overall I am not happy with introducing the scaling tech to old operations, although I understand the time-saving argument in future updates, it makes you feel a lot less powerful and relevant, improving your gear and grabbing better tacticals/setbonuses to get bigger numbers or/and improve performance as an incentive is totally removed and a lot of the stats that I as a player have is simply "removed". In a way this feels a lot like 3.0 and early 2.0 where a lot of content was a few levels below and after running it a few times it simply got boring and not appealing at all to do.

 

Today there are still loads of guilds running the old operations regularly, progressing their way through the easier hard mode and nightmare operations until they reach the most difficult bosses. Even veteran players who have cleared old operations on hardmode or/and nightmare can still jump in and help/do old operations and have fun because there is still a bit of a challenge. With operations being downscaled and at their current difficulty level, there is no semblance of challenge left which might be appeal short term for achievement hunters, but long term this is likely to result in the same decline of the raiding scene as during 3.0

Edited August 14, 2019 by RikuvonDrake

[Iymurra]

Overall I am not happy with introducing the scaling tech to old operations, although I understand the time-saving argument in future updates, it makes you feel a lot less powerful and relevant, improving your gear and grabbing better tacticals/setbonuses to get bigger numbers or/and improve performance as an incentive is totally removed and a lot of the stats that I as a player have is simply "removed". In a way this feels a lot like 3.0 and early 2.0 where a lot of content was a few levels below and after running it a few times it simply got boring and not appealing at all to do.

 

Today there are still loads of guilds running the old operations regularly, progressing their way through the easier hard mode and nightmare operations until they reach the most difficult bosses. Even veteran players who have cleared old operations on hardmode or/and nightmare can still jump in and help/do old operations and have fun because there is still a bit of a challenge. With operations being downscaled and at their current difficulty level, there is no semblance of challenge left which might be appeal short term for achievement hunters, but long term this is likely to result in the same decline of the raiding scene as during 3.0

 

How would gaining set bonii and new tacticals not provide a damage increase at the synced content? The only stats which are synced down are power, mastery & endurance (maybe defense?) so they only effect the bonus damage and health of our characters. Tacticals and Set Bonii haven't interacted with those stats... well... ever I think.

 

This also isn't like 2.0 or 3.0 as the operations won't become solo-able or close enough to. Each of the operations will remain relevant, as they do now, and will simply have different gearing targets.

 

The challenge for players who want to help will remain, the challenge has basically never been gear related with these old operations but is 99% either mechanics or someone who just isn't willing to learn how to play their class. Downscaling operations actually opens up a lot more opportunities for people who aren't geared up to the current level cap to help out as they will most likely have passed the gearing targets for something like EV or KP very quickly upon reaching level 50 or 51.

 

I can understand the feeling of not feeling powerful anymore with the idea of downscaling, but in contrast to now I don't see this as different from the status quo. Right now the old operations are scaled up in difficulty with each level cap and they take a near-identical amount of time to clear. They don't pose any threat in SM, and you quickly bypass the recommended gear for HM. Similar to how downscaling functions. Either the ops are upscaled (which, don't kid yourself, has always just been a numbers tweak) or we get downscaled. Same effect though, equitable amounts of time are required to clear.

 

 

If your complaint is that the content is not difficult enough and does not pose a challenge then I'd phrase that in a manner which doesn't attack the baseline idea behind the content. i.e.: "I feel like the content is not difficult enough and I would recommend reducing the bonus damage we can currently acquire as well as increasing the damage done by the operations or further reducing the healing potential of the classes in synced content."

[DarthBryn]

Solo Black Talon

Lvl 75 Merc Scaled to Lvl 10

Level 50 comp

Started the Fp Using Comp as Heal and with Combat Bot, didnt take enough damage to get a heal and basically every mob lasted a few seconds making it very easy.

Put comp on Passive and disabled the combat droid and still could walk through without any issue. Killed first boss like this without getting below 70% Health or finishing a full rotation of Dps.

Got bored as it wasnt a challege at all. Put Comp back to Dps, bought Combat droid back and smashed through to the end in a few minutes.

Was way to easy although tbh not a million miles from current Live and given this is the opening FP may be about correct for newer players.

 

Then Jumped Into Nathema Solo Mode and this isnt Level Sync'd I stayed at level 75 and no Combat Droid Joined.

 

Then Did Battle of Rishi, THis was Sync'd and on a par in difficulty turms with Live, quite easy.

Edited August 14, 2019 by DarthBryn

[warnl]

I’ll start of by saying that everyone in my group has killed all nim bosses (except gods) and timed runs

 

We didn’t hav enough to run anything nim so the 4 of us decided to mess around doing hammer station and sm ec. Group comp was merc heals, pt and op dps and pt tank.

 

For hammer station nothing hit hard enough and died too quickly, even the bonus boss was a joke. When athiss, cadememu, hammer station and mando raiders? First launched as master modes you had to seriously think about whether you wanted to do the bonus bosses as they were challenging and could be a roadblock for some players. When we hit it it was just face tank it, never fell below like 80% hp with the healer dpssing most of the time. Overall boss damage could probably be doubled and hp raised by 50% still be accessible to the vast majority of players. Also encountered a bug on the first boss where the stacks were auto falling off/cleansed at 3 stacks without the healer doing it.

 

For sm EC a similar thing, adds hitting harder than the bosses and it was significantly easier than currently on live, had our pt dps tank some of the first 3 bosses with no trouble. With just the 4 of us we pushed the walker in the final boss fight to 19% with first bomb without the use of adrenals and saving some offensive cool downs. The boss damage needs to be raised or there’s no real point in using tanks for sm ops and may as well just bring dps and heals.

[sugarnails]

Edit: I know these aren't the "focus" flashpoints, but I figured it would be useful to give feedback on my experience running these yesterday.

 

Veteran/Tactical Mode Cademimu

 

Trash seemed fairly normal, if a bit slow to die compared to live. Probably just a difference of being overgeared for it on live. The first two bosses died before we really even experienced their mechanics. The first boss had just activated his droid when he went down and the Ugnaughts only spawned in as the Wookiee boss died. The final boss fight took a bit longer, but still only lived long enough to have one reposition phase.

 

Group: Sorc healer, Master Ranos companion tank, Merc dps, Sniper dps

Scaled to level 28, I think?

 

Master/Hard Mode Athiss

 

Most trash seemed normal, except for the Alchemical beasts, both in trash packs and summoned by the 2nd boss. They hit hard enough that our healer was constantly in "triage mode" throughout the 2nd boss fight. When I managed to pull aggro on a trash pack of them, I immediately had to use a defensive cooldown or I would have died. The same happened while trying to aoe down the spawns during the 2nd boss fight. The damage from them just comes in too fast for anything but an instant cast ability.

 

Group: Sorc healer, Master Ranos companion tank, Merc dps, Sorc dps

Scaled to level 70

Edited August 14, 2019 by sugarnails

[AwesomeTacoCat]

These concerns are totally misplaced. There are no specs that will stack mastery or power based on the pts gear, so that's a non-issue.

 

Being obsessed with parsing and numbers is a personal problem for raiders. Numbers are only a means to an end, and it's ridiculous for you or anyone to complain about scaling because it won't match your precious parse numbers. You're just using parsing as a crutch. Learn to adapt.

 

You should really take a step back and think about what you're actually saying. The poster that you're responding to was right on the money.

 

Are you slow? The current meta is that both DPS and Heal classes stack mastery/power relics. Also, many tanks choose to stack endurance.

 

Using numbers to get better is what most NiM level raiders do. People who are facerolling through SM EV all the time don't use them, but should we really be catering ALL NiM content to people who just want to faceroll through SM EV on their arsenal merc? Probably not...

[JediMasterAlex]

Are you slow? The current meta is that both DPS and Heal classes stack mastery/power relics.

 

Well, if the procs from mastery/power relics don't work properly in the scaled down content, then yes, it would be a benefit to wear different relics. I just meant no mastery/power stacking in terms of augments/crystals given the stat budgets on pts.

[jambalayabungee]

These concerns are totally misplaced. There are no specs that will stack mastery or power based on the pts gear, so that's a non-issue.

 

mastery/power relics, power adrenals (dps and healer adrenals...), the power and endurance in the gold augments become irrelevant , mastery stims ... everything that gives a flat mastery / power / endurance rating arent working, so you are cutting yourself of a lot of options.

 

(The last time I tested the mastery %bonus from the new sets it wasnt working either, now its working tho, and the %power stats from sets are working at least. As are the class buffs, and the %mastery increase from abilities, thank god)

 

crit / alac have DR , hence why you want to have mastery / power, that directly increase your dmg / healing. You can stack 4000 crit if you want, but if the mastery / power is capped, you wont get any higher numbers, just more consistent crit, and because of DR you might not even feel it. Also mastery impact your crit chance %...

edit: ok, more crit will give you a bigger multiplier, so yeah, some dmg increase. But still ..

 

====================================

How could we improve level sync then? If its here to stay?

-->Would that be realistic if those IRating stacks were sliding depending of your Tier of gear?

 

I mean, by exemple HM Hammer is capped at lvl 70 - stats are relative to what is currently the 70 bolster in live, so..IR 248, 252? (Im unsure about this), which is fine if you are in lower gear, but if you outlevel the bolster you wont get any improvement, and it defeat the point and the motivation of wanting to get higher gear.

So if the stacks adjust, you could still "feel" the difficulty related to low Tier / high Tier of gear ? Otherwise whats the point of gearing for end-game content if the bolster punish you by keeping you in a generic middle Tier without any chance of improvement?

I mean, I wasnt there when EV was released, but Im pretty sure you had a difficulty curve relative to how much high level gear you have, like you would have in any new operation , hence the point of doing them to get gear.

 

--> Make the mastery / power / endurance stims / adrenal / relics still relevant but adjust their output ?

--> Give us the options to choose the Dummies of the level we want, and the according bolster/(debolster?). So If you want to do an level 50 operation, you can practice on a level 50 dummy, with the stats you would have in that operation , or 60, or 70 ...

 

Of course all this is irrelevant if we could just faceroll through operations and master fps with no challenge whatsoever XD

Edited August 14, 2019 by jambalayabungee

[Restoman]

Hard Mode SnV with 1 tank, 1 dps and 1 healer.

Something went terribly wrong when rescaling for this patch,the dps checks are insanely low and damage from bosses seems all over the place. We killed 5 out of 7 bosses with 3 people until we ran into enrage issues. That was a meme run abusing The Life Warden tactical on the tank for fun, however still - it could've been easily 4-manned.

Dashroode died at the last shield before it expired, damage done by the boss at some points was higher than that of live or even nim, the sandstorm ticks hit very hard for an HM ops (people that are slow at running would be dying without shield ).

 

On Titan with 1 damage dealer we had a boss dps similar to what a 6man hm-group on live would probably have with 1t 3d and 2h, boss died at the last middle spot and was killed before he managed to enrage. Damage on tank seems fine, however the raidwide outside of burn seems very low. Burn damage is similar to that of live I guess, maybe higher.

Trasher similar to Titan with dps check, damage taken might be fine.

Operations chief oasis bosses are too easy, should have hp increased by around 40%?, do some more damage too,

the boss dps check was similar to Dashroode, damage done was ok I guess.

Olok the shadow - in first phase the adds were dying kinda similar to how they do on nim with a full group, down there it was the hardest dps check for 3 ppl so far, droids have more hp than compared to other dps checks, but obviously still too little for a full group, the boss didn't enrage, adds could have slightly more hp.

Can't judge the next boss properly.

 

We also went into DF NiM with 3 ppl, the guardians (trash) were melting like crazy and the seemed like Nefra could be easily 5manned as long there is enough ppl to share the cleave. Hope it helps

[Zinadu]

Hard Mode SnV with 1 tank, 1 dps and 1 healer.

Something went terribly wrong when rescaling for this patch,the dps checks are insanely low and damage from bosses seems all over the place. We killed 5 out of 7 bosses with 3 people until we ran into enrage issues. That was a meme run abusing The Life Warden tactical on the tank for fun, however still - it could've been easily 4-manned.

Dashroode died at the last shield before it expired, damage done by the boss at some points was higher than that of live or even nim, the sandstorm ticks hit very hard for an HM ops (people that are slow at running would be dying without shield ).

 

On Titan with 1 damage dealer we had a boss dps similar to what a 6man hm-group on live would probably have with 1t 3d and 2h, boss died at the last middle spot and was killed before he managed to enrage. Damage on tank seems fine, however the raidwide outside of burn seems very low. Burn damage is similar to that of live I guess, maybe higher.

Trasher similar to Titan with dps check, damage taken might be fine.

Operations chief oasis bosses are too easy, should have hp increased by around 40%?, do some more damage too,

the boss dps check was similar to Dashroode, damage done was ok I guess.

Olok the shadow - in first phase the adds were dying kinda similar to how they do on nim with a full group, down there it was the hardest dps check for 3 ppl so far, droids have more hp than compared to other dps checks, but obviously still too little for a full group, the boss didn't enrage, adds could have slightly more hp.

Can't judge the next boss properly.

 

We also went into DF NiM with 3 ppl, the guardians (trash) were melting like crazy and the seemed like Nefra could be easily 5manned as long there is enough ppl to share the cleave. Hope it helps

 

A group last night killed nefra with 6 people and 1 healer. In 1 minute 43 seconds in NiM.

 

Scaling is not the way to go because balancing it will be extremely difficult and it will get people to build alternate sets for things like sales runs cause defense mods will be BiS for any scaled raid while HP mods will likely be used for Dxun.

 

Relics stims and adrenals won't even work either.

 

A lot of the current nim raiders only do old content now because they can parse run. Take that away and you'll see a lot of experienced raiders stop doing content and likely leave the game after Dxun is cleared.

[DzastinBiberi]

Could we get a bit harder Master FP?

 

Hammer Station is easy tbh, both on 70 lvl and 75 (PTS) with the right group.

 

Feedback on M FP HS.

 

It went really well, smooth, it felt like I was tanking in 258 gear on DM.

Nothing was OP, although it felt like mobs did a bit more dmg than usual. Maybe a slight nerf to that would be better.

The reason for this is, we were a good group, two good dpsers, tank and good healer. I usually stack mobs and never before I had to use Enraged Defense to keep myself alive but I did it twice, once with the 1st boss and with the adds before the boss. Any inexperienced group would wipe 100% and it shouldnt be like that since HS even on Master mode is the easy FP.

 

Just so we could compare HS on 75 lvl with more dificult FP, please make available one more FP for queue, like

The Foundry for example.

[DarthBryn]

HS Vet is very easy after latest patch, Solo with Comp on Dps and felt like i was still level 75. Just walked through killing everything without thought

[Krazhez]

HS Vet is very easy after latest patch, Solo with Comp on Dps and felt like i was still level 75. Just walked through killing everything without thought

 

Reiterating this, soloing veteran mode. Walked into HS as a level 16 jug, with a level 2 vette on heals. I did die on the first big pull, but then never again. Stood in Kreshans sweeping fire, and never pulled Vette out of the floor bombs. (did not have relics or ear, missing one implant)

Edited August 17, 2019 by Krazhez