Abuse of the Kick Option in Flashpoints

[Atma]

Considering that in seven years of this game, every class story mission, every planetary mission, every exploration mission, every story-related flashpoint and every expac are tuned for....guess what...SOLO play...and the group activities such as Ops and PvP are presented as optional activities that can be completely ignored, I wouldn't say that this is a "multiplayer game first and foremost." It's advertised as a story-based MMORPG and there's nothing in MMO that means HUR HUR HURRR!!!! GROOOOUPPPPP!!! as much as you'd like to claim so.

 

It's not solo players who "cry and deny." There is nothing to deny when the entire story, every expac and 95% of the game can be completed solo and is tuned for solo play. It's raiders/pro-groupers who seem to be the ones crying and taking umbrage that not everyone wants to play in a horde. Otherwise y'all wouldn't feel the need to bring it up and throw insults every time someone mentions they prefer to solo.

 

Yeah so story missions and story mode for certain flashpoints.. that's not 95% of the game. You're ignoring veteran and master mode flashpoints, operations, warzones, 4 man heroics, and Ilum (Haha jk). TOR wasn't designed as a single player game with an optional multiplayer mode. It's an MMO.

 

Oh there's also the Eternal Championship you can do that's kinda like the Brawlers Guild in WoW. That's fun.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah so story missions and story mode for certain flashpoints.. that's not 95% of the game. You're ignoring veteran and master mode flashpoints, operations, warzones, 4 man heroics, and Ilum (Haha jk). TOR wasn't designed as a single player game with an optional multiplayer mode. It's an MMO.

 

Oh there's also the Eternal Championship you can do that's kinda like the Brawlers Guild in WoW. That's fun.

 

Except that you're wrong. Everything multiplayer in this game IS optional.

 

There are literally hundreds of missions that are solo tuned, encompassing the class story missions, the planetary arcs, the exploration/side quests, most of the flashpoints, every single expac, every single daily area, every single heroic up to Ossus excepting one heroic on Makeb, most of the datacrons, the space missions, etc. And the Eternal Championships has a solo mode, too.

 

There are IIRC ten Ops, and if we're generous and include the NiM, Veteran and Story modes for those, that's 30 missions. Add in the flashpoints with only VM and NiM, GSF and the warzones, and you've got perhaps another 30. Every. Single. One. can be completely ignored and is completely OPTIONAL content.

 

If it's "primarily" a multiplayer game, ignoring every bit of multiplayer content without any impediment to progression would not be possible.

 

Please, do illuminate us all on how:

 

- A person can level to 70 and then to CL 300 playing progressively through the provided solo-tuned class, planetary and expac content without grouping or taking shortcuts

- Do every single heroic before Ossus, except for one on Makeb, without grouping or much effort

- Do the H4s on Section X and the Black Hole without grouping

- Do the Veteran Star Fortresses without grouping

- Get BiS gear except for 258 offhand and main hand, without grouping

- Do the entire Eternal Championships without grouping

- Complete every single expac ever added to the game without grouping

- Do every single daily area without grouping

- Do every single space mission (not GSF but the tracked ones) without grouping

- Completely ignore Ops and never do them without having any adverse effect on leveling or progression

- Completely ignore PvP and never do it without having any adverse effect on leveling or progression

- Completely ignore VM and NiM flashpoints and never do them without having any adverse effect on leveling or progression

- Set up a guild with the help of only one other person and run an entire flagship solo

 

Oh wait, because it's ALL tuned for solo players, and the amount of missions tuned for solo greatly outstrips the ones for group play. You can skip every single group activity and still progress through the entire game without any issues.

 

Sorry if that bothers you, but it's the reality of it. You're welcome to keep denying that, but it's pretty silly and I'm not going to waste any additional time on answering you. If it bothers and offends you ever so much that many players don't group, that's not the solo players' problem.

Edited June 17, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[lightSaberAddiCt]

"Solo Friendly" equals "child friendly" in a eatery. Which means we have a high chair, a small kids menu and that is it. It DOESN"T MEAN that the child can demand the restaurant cooks them off the menu, run around and bother people trying to eat, or scream at the top of their lungs for an hour. Alternately, Solo friendly does not mean you have access to everything and can do or act any way you want. Personally, since launch I have never been kicked from an FP, and usually the rudest people are the ones demanding to watch cutscenes in a MM FP, or just do stupid **** to aggravate people. Remember it takes what 3 people to kick?

 

And it also seems some people keep coming here complaining about how the kick function is "abused". so much, maybe try to figure out what /why people seem to do it so much.

Edited June 17, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

[lightSaberAddiCt]

double post delete please Edited June 17, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt
double post

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Anything can be abused if you give it half a chance, the kick, ban, promotion, demotion, reports, ignore and countless other features i view very negatively, because such features aren't actually needed and actual social interaction is becoming a lost art with trolls attacking other users and abusing the ignore feature to get away with it instead of facing their failures accordingly.

 

So the report feature used in kicking others, it doesn't matter what the reason is as others will kick no matter what because they can and will. This is why you don't trust random strangers on the net, even those you consider a friend because you really have no idea if they are genuine or faking it.

 

i wouldn't mind having all those types of features done away with and people actually putting the effort in to work with each other just long enough to get the content done and move along.

 

Celise, you have to realize that there HAS to be a kick function, otherwise people could join a group, and purposefully troll, whipe, insult or otherwise make other players lives miserable. The 3 other people in that group have just as much right to play as the fourth. Like I said I have never had an issue being kicked. But then I am usually polite, follow the groups lead, don't run into stupid etc.

 

But you would cause 1000x more damage if you removed the kick function to make a couple anti-group people secure in the fact that they can join a group, make their lives miserable, not do a damn thing and there is no protections for the other 3 players.

Edited June 17, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

[robertthebard]

Anything can be abused if you give it half a chance, the kick, ban, promotion, demotion, reports, ignore and countless other features i view very negatively, because such features aren't actually needed and actual social interaction is becoming a lost art with trolls attacking other users and abusing the ignore feature to get away with it instead of facing their failures accordingly.

 

So the report feature used in kicking others, it doesn't matter what the reason is as others will kick no matter what because they can and will. This is why you don't trust random strangers on the net, even those you consider a friend because you really have no idea if they are genuine or faking it.

 

i wouldn't mind having all those types of features done away with and people actually putting the effort in to work with each other just long enough to get the content done and move along.

 

My rights end where your rights begin, and vice versa. I do not have to put up with abusive behavior in a group, and I do not have to quit the group to avoid it. That applies all around. We are not required to carry the player that joins the group, enters the content and then goes afk for the duration. That spot can be filled with someone that wants to play instead, or replaced with a comp. I've done both.

 

If one is being an *** and gets kicked, it's not abuse. Using abusive language, while abusive, is not an abuse of the kick function, especially since it's not "the leader kicked me", it's "the group voted me out". The one thing I always hate about these kinds of threads is that we always only hear one side of the story. If one is vote kicked, one needs to evaluate if there really was something they were doing that maybe the people that decided to kick them found offensive as well as coming to the forums looking for sympathy. As a community, there's not much we can do about perceived, or actual abuses of the kick system, but I didn't read anything in the OP that suggests that the kick function itself was abused. The language wasn't appropriate, or at least in some examples it wasn't, but calling someone an ******e is borderline, suppose they were being an ******e? Then it's just an accurate assessment, right?

[robertthebard]

How many of the vanilla class missions are actual group content again? What about KotFE/ET? What percentage of the game would you say those make up?

 

 

While I don't agree that this is a solo only MMO, it most certainly is solo friendly, in a lot of areas aside from the ones I listed above. SoR can be completed completely solo, despite there being an Op at the end that can be run in a group. So it's easy to see why someone might think that this game is solo friendly, and the reason is, quite simply, that it is. In fact, if one were to base their entire experience on the vanilla stories, they may be forgiven for believing it is a solo game.

Edited June 17, 2019 by CommunityDroidEU
Moderated quote removed

[Batwer]

Such people come on the ignore list. finished. Then you will not have them in the group next time.

[Atma]

How many of the vanilla class missions are actual group content again? What about KotFE/ET? What percentage of the game would you say those make up? It's interesting to read "pulling things out of their butt" when the comment seems to have originated in the same general vicinity.

 

While I don't agree that this is a solo only MMO, it most certainly is solo friendly, in a lot of areas aside from the ones I listed above. SoR can be completed completely solo, despite there being an Op at the end that can be run in a group. So it's easy to see why someone might think that this game is solo friendly, and the reason is, quite simply, that it is. In fact, if one were to base their entire experience on the vanilla stories, they may be forgiven for believing it is a solo game.

 

Class missions and KOTFE/KOTET are one and done, hell you can even skip those expansions entirely now. That's a very small fraction of playtime for people that play beyond the story stuff. You're right that TOR is solo friendly.. doesnt mean that the huge chunk of multiplayer only content doesnt exist.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Atma

[robertthebard]

Class missions and KOTFE/KOTET are one and done, hell you can even skip those expansions entirely now. That's a very small fraction of playtime for people that play beyond the story stuff. You're right that TOR is solo friendly.. doesnt mean that the huge chunk of multiplayer only content doesnt exist.

 

The class missions are certainly one and done, but you can replay KotFE/ET to your heart's content. It even has it's own interface, Shift E, I think? It's funny to see "huge chunk of multiplayer" in a swtor conversation though, considering the years I read "we need more Operations", and the oft cited long queues for PvP.

[Atma]

The class missions are certainly one and done, but you can replay KotFE/ET to your heart's content.

 

Why would anyone put themselves through that

 

 

It's funny to see "huge chunk of multiplayer" in a swtor conversation though, considering the years I read "we need more Operations", and the oft cited long queues for PvP.

 

Point still stands that there's way more multiplayer content in the game than solo story instances

[Khaleijo]

The class missions are certainly one and done, but you can replay KotFE/ET to your heart's content. It even has it's own interface, Shift E, I think? It's funny to see "huge chunk of multiplayer" in a swtor conversation though, considering the years I read "we need more Operations", and the oft cited long queues for PvP.

As for the discussion about the kick function, as someone else already said it was abusive language, though without knowing what exactly happened during the FP none of us can tell if the kick was unfair or not. In the end if those players were that abusive it wasn't any loss to not play with them any longer.

 

As for group vs solo content:

Before the overhaul of the game and introduction of levelsync there were way more H2/H4 quest on each planet. Until everyone was vastly over leveled with 3.x it was pretty normal to group up for planetary quests and such because a lot of them weren't that easy to solo and it was fun to have two or more different characters influence the story and conversations. Today you even might get insulted for wanting to do stuff in groups that doesn't absolutely need one.

Same for class story, the classic story worked well to be played together if you played different classes, only KOTFE/KOTET was truly solo because only one player would be able to further his quest and you have to do it twice even with different classes and there was no other story arc to play.

With 4.0 the game got practically single focused on solo play/story, since we got another shift back to more group content with 5.0 it's sort of obvious that alone couldn't hold enough paying customers.

In the end it's a mix, though going into group related stuff you will always get together with real people, people of all kinds, nice and unfriendly, helpful and toxic. That's just part of it.

In the end that is why guild exist, to find like minded players, why you can put people you had fun with on your friend list and play with them instead of having to rely on random players.

Though of course that involves some minimal commitment, like being online at the same time and such, having to compromise at times on what to play together.

If you play with random players you get rather mixed random results, that's nothing new and has always been true.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Khaleijo

[aerockyul]

As for group vs solo content:

Before the overhaul of the game and introduction of levelsync there were way more H2/H4 quest on each planet. Until everyone was vastly over leveled with 3.x it was pretty normal to group up for planetary quests and such because a lot of them weren't that easy to solo and it was fun to have two or more different characters influence the story and conversations. Today you even might get insulted for wanting to do stuff in groups that doesn't absolutely need one.

 

The dichotomy of this game as an MMO is pretty well summed up there, and reflects a lot of the elitist themes you see when people profess to struggle with "solo" content and "group content that can be solo'd by a HM-NiM raider"

[lightSaberAddiCt]

My rights end where your rights begin, and vice versa. I do not have to put up with abusive behavior in a group, and I do not have to quit the group to avoid it. That applies all around. We are not required to carry the player that joins the group, enters the content and then goes afk for the duration. That spot can be filled with someone that wants to play instead, or replaced with a comp. I've done both.

 

If one is being an *** and gets kicked, it's not abuse. Using abusive language, while abusive, is not an abuse of the kick function, especially since it's not "the leader kicked me", it's "the group voted me out". The one thing I always hate about these kinds of threads is that we always only hear one side of the story. If one is vote kicked, one needs to evaluate if there really was something they were doing that maybe the people that decided to kick them found offensive as well as coming to the forums looking for sympathy. As a community, there's not much we can do about perceived, or actual abuses of the kick system, but I didn't read anything in the OP that suggests that the kick function itself was abused. The language wasn't appropriate, or at least in some examples it wasn't, but calling someone an ******e is borderline, suppose they were being an ******e? Then it's just an accurate assessment, right?

 

Amen brother, and that is what I think is the main problem here...

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I am sure I am going to get opposition on this and people saying I am complaining but I have a legit reason for saying something because there have been a few incidents where the reasons given were anti-Semetic and homophobic. Or people just having no reason to kick someone. Eg. I was kicked from Cadenimu one time for doing what a majority of the player base does and that’s skip the mobs after the second boss and the reasonings put into the kick reasons were a**hole and b****. Another time I was kicked and the person put the reason as “Jew”. There was an incident where I was kicked for just saying the person was pulling everything and then there was an incident in Directive 7 where another player got kicked for being afk and the person who initiated the kick instead of putting afk put “Gay” as the reason and as an LGBT+ in real life I found this to be quite offensive.

 

I am sure there are some people who will call me a whiner and what not but a person can take so much of seeing such abusive use of the kick option in flashpoints, especially the homophobic and anti-Semitic reasons given. And if you can make exceptions for one form of abusive behavior you may as well make exceptions for all and I personally don’t work like that. So this is to Bioware: Please do something about this abusive toxic behavior where people are abusing the kick option in flashpoints in such a way, even if it means getting rid of the option all together, I know it sucks to pubish all for a few but if people can’t be responsible and use the option as it is intended then so be it. I for one found the homophobic and anti-Semitic reasons to be the final straw for me, which is why I am saying something.

 

Add on: I would like to add that in the rules of conduct it clearly states:

 

U Mad Bro? If someone was breaking the RoC, I am sure you reported them. If they are still playing, I guess that is your answer. Not to mention it goes along way to screenshot these homophobic and anti-Semitic so you know, people don't have to just take you at your word.

Edited June 18, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

[lightSaberAddiCt]

As for the discussion about the kick function, as someone else already said it was abusive language, though without knowing what exactly happened during the FP none of us can tell if the kick was unfair or not. In the end if those players were that abusive it wasn't any loss to not play with them any longer.

 

If there were homophobic slurs or abusive language they can be reported and their logs checked, or take a screenshot. Other then that, it would be foolish to take any forum poster at their word of it. It is along the same lines of people that say they hate some update and "alot of people agree with them and are unsubbing" statement some like to use, even though it is just their single opinion.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Such people come on the ignore list. finished. Then you will not have them in the group next time.

Yeah but then they would have nothing to come to forums with and complain about how terrible people are

[MandFlurry]

If there were homophobic slurs or abusive language they can be reported and their logs checked, or take a screenshot. Other then that, it would be foolish to take any forum poster at their word of it. It is along the same lines of people that say they hate some update and "alot of people agree with them and are unsubbing" statement some like to use, even though it is just their single opinion.

 

Some of you sound like the very same people that probably kicked the OP out. then blame them, or call them liars. So full of IT, i mean i know some of you here are the same people who do use hateful speech, then you come out here and blame them.

 

Me I would just let you guys die in a Flash point, just to show how stupid some of these people are, because no matter what, they blame others, instead of taking the blame themselves.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Some of you sound like the very same people that probably kicked the OP out. then blame them, or call them liars. So full of IT, i mean i know some of you here are the same people who do use hateful speech, then you come out here and blame them.

 

Me I would just let you guys die in a Flash point, just to show how stupid some of these people are, because no matter what, they blame others, instead of taking the blame themselves.

 

Only people I and many others usually kick are rude people, so there is your answer. Personally I wouldn't need to worry about it though, I would have had people on ignore already. And you know nothing about me, or how I play but of course you try to make an assumption, because only mean, bad people disagree with you, and not just people that have other opinions.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Only people I and many others usually kick are rude people, so there is your answer. Personally I wouldn't need to worry about it though, I would have had people on ignore already. And you know nothing about me, or how I play but of course you try to make an assumption, because only mean, bad people disagree with you, and not just people that have other opinions.

 

I also notice the majority of posters in this thread disagree with the OP, and the only ones being abusive are the ones white knighting the post. And the only people that agree with the post in the first place, are the same 3 or 4 regulars re-posting.

[HeatRacer]

This thread is just a repost of a thread the OP started almost a year and half ago, and ran for 28 pages:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=943039

 

Someone's stirring the pot again...

Edited June 18, 2019 by HeatRacer

[Sattee]

good grief

[DarkTergon]

This thread is just a repost of a thread the OP started almost a year and half ago, and ran for 28 pages:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=943039

 

Someone's stirring the pot again...

 

 

Or trolling :/

[Rolodome]

This thread is just a repost of a thread the OP started almost a year and half ago, and ran for 28 pages:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=943039

 

Someone's stirring the pot again...

Or maybe he's continued to received harassment / deal with poor behavior and so he's bringing it up again?

[Rolodome]

 

 

 

 

if you get kicked from randoms regularly you're probably doing something to provoke it radical idea i know

Hmm. I just checked. No indication of him saying he gets kicked from randoms regularly. Just that he has been kicked and seen others kicked in an abusive manner.