Let's Talk Win Trading...

[merovejec]

Well, I didn’t know about the first one (obviously) and I did not remember the second one until you jogged my memory.

As for the second one, I believe Bioware ended up telling everyone it was a bug and allowing people to buy as many gifts as they wanted till they fixed it,

 

As I said, this was just an example. I can find all of the exploits described on the forums and in patch notes, I just do not have the time for it now. So that is how anyone can know about them. Not to mention the many threads that described those exploits but were deleted, so if people regularly visit forums they would see them since Bioware has working times and if you post besided those your post will be up for many hours.

[TrixxieTriss]

As I said, this was just an example. I can find all of the exploits described on the forums and in patch notes, I just do not have the time for it now. So that is how anyone can know about them. Not to mention the many threads that described those exploits but were deleted, so if people regularly visit forums they would see them since Bioware has working times and if you post besided those your post will be up for many hours.

 

I think we both know the forums is my second home. Not much gets past me. Any specific mentions of exploits or hacks are usually removed quickly (unless it’s a Bioware sanctioned thread). So even with me nearly living here on the forums, I don’t know most of the stuff you know about the exploits “everyone” uses or knows about.

Why do you think that is? Because they aren’t discussed here. They are kept within a small group or big group of cheaters who don’t want to be exposed so they can continue to cheat.

 

I’ve exposed specific hacks and exploits in regs that I’ve seen people do and been shouted down on these forums by those exact people using them. Then later on, maybe months or years later, I am vindicated when enough people finally expose them and they can’t hide. Usually this is because it’s infected ranked and we all know “ranked” is so serious and you can’t have cheating there , so everyone finally acknowledges these hacks exist.

 

The problem is Biowares policy of not allowing us to post proof on the forums without being sanctioned. It’s not the cheats that get into trouble, it’s people exposing them. The whole thing is so backwards that I’ve stopped bothering gathering proof because Bioware do nothing about it if you send it too then and I can’t post it here without a ban myself.

If we could openly expose the cheating by posting it on the forums, then those people couldn’t hide and everyone would see them for what they are.

 

As much as I hated JeZ** cheating, he vindicated myself and many others when he posted those videos of himself doing it on the forums. Before that, we were attacked and told hacks didn’t exist because it was impossible to do the stuff we described. JeZ blew that argument out of the water in one “foul” swoop and he even posted the script he used to do it. (I took screen shots of all his posts before the mods removed them).

 

There are still the same hacks that he posted being used in regs. But we all know “regs” don’t count and people won’t come to the forums to get massively upset until they infect ranked again.

In all honesty, if win trading was some sort of reg problem, do you think it would get the exposure on the forums that it does? Do you think Bioware would make yellow posts about it if it was some sort of reg problem.

 

I’m still seeing people go through walls, teleport and other things. But now we have so much desync, they can get away with it more easily because everyone blames that or tells you that’s what it is and half the time it probably is. But there are times that it most definitely is not and when you say anything, you get told l2p or the cheats actually troll you.

 

Until Bioware change their policy on how they deal with cheats, there will always Cheats around.

Only ZERO TOLERANCE to cheating works. ONLY PERMA bans and NO WARNINGS is taken seriously.

Other games do it, even EA games, so this tip-toe, slap on the wrist or totally ignore policy, is a Bioware policy and has been cancer on the integrity of the game since day one.

Edited March 15, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Lhancelot]

As much as I hated JeZ** cheating, he vindicated myself and many others when he posted those videos of himself doing it on the forums. Before that, we were attacked and told hacks didn’t exist because it was impossible to do the stuff we described. JeZ blew that argument out of the water in one “foul” swoop and he even posted the script he used to do it. (I took screen shots of all his posts before the mods removed them).

 

Yeah, one thing about JeZ is he was willing to put his shadiness out in the open and that's one reason I had a hard time hating him, as much as I despise cheaters the fact he kept nothing secret was extremely helpful. He sort of reminded me of someone that really was just calling out for help, I think the guy has/had some RL issues and always hoped he found peace in the game or made friends that could keep him out of trouble. Maybe that's a bit idealistic, though.

 

The problem with most players who use cheats and exploits is they keep them to themselves, and only share with other like minded types of players so often times it seems a lot of stuff is going on that the large majority isn't aware of.

 

It just makes me wonder how much is going on that many honest players are unaware of.

 

I think it's sad that people rather use exploits and cheats against others who are unaware of such tactics in a game instead of actually competing on even ground with them to prove they actually are more skilled, especially when often times the players that use rule-breaking exploits are actually experienced vets that are also higher skilled than those they cheat against.

 

Ranked wouldn't be in the place it is if people were capable of competing for pixels without "needing" to cheat and get them no matter how they have to do it. People are people, though.

 

We are relying on either others to keep constant supervision over the games or we need a system that doesn't encourage cheating for rating and actually provides a challenge if players decide to try to cheat the system. The other necessary step is to actually punish cheaters who are caught.

 

One time caught, give a warning and small ban/strip all rating gained on that players toons and do not allow them to compete for the rest of the season. If caught a second time cheating whether it's in regs or ranked they ought to get a 6 month ban from the game. After that, if they are ever caught again for cheating then ban them indefinitely.

[TrixxieTriss]

One time caught, give a warning and small ban/strip all rating gained on that players toons and do not allow them to compete for the rest of the season. If caught a second time cheating whether it's in regs or ranked they ought to get a 6 month ban from the game. After that, if they are ever caught again for cheating then ban them indefinitely.

 

You know most other games don’t give warnings or 6 month bans if your are caught cheating. They just perma ban the players account.

Respawn has recently perma banned about 33,000 players in the last few weeks.

[merovejec]

Respawn has recently perma banned about 33,000 players in the last few weeks.

 

I am afraid that is the whole population of swtor

[MikeBradley]

I understand that naming and shaming individuals isn't a likely course of action for you but would it be possible for you to give us a post detailing some of the numbers involved here? So for example X people got X punishment, Y got Y and so on?

This is exactly the format I had in mind . After running this plan past several members of the team, I believe I can get very close to this. Full disclosure, for privacy reasons there may be some cases where I have to be less specific than I’d like to be. I've already started on the first report for season 11, look for it as a new thread next week.

So (EA’s) Respawn’s game - Apex Legends just perma bans people cheating. Why can’t Bioware do the same.

 

What I would like to know is why can’t Bioware (another EA studio) have the same no tolerance policy to cheaters?

Thanks for sharing this! I did see that Apex report, and it’s a great read.

 

To clarify, we do issue permanent bans on players who cheat. We’ve been catching and banning cheaters since the launch of the game. There’s a range of ways that players cheat, and some methods are easier to detect than others. For the most obvious ways (botting, hacking, use of external software), we have systems that can automatically detect it, and because it often stands out clearly, we are much more comfortable handing out permanent bans in those cases, and we do.

 

Conspiring with others to fix matches is a method of cheating that is more difficult to prove conclusively, but we are making strides with the tools we have at our disposal and the different ways we’re able to look for it. We know this particular area is one in which we need the most help, and I want to thank those who send us reports and explanations of this happening. These reports, combined with the improvements we continue to make, have allowed us to increase (albeit more slowly) our confidence levels in these cases. As our confidence grows in our methods, as we increase the frequency and thoroughness of our investigations, and as we better communicate exactly the behavior we won’t tolerate, we will be more comfortable taking increased action against win traders throughout this season and beyond.

 

Until next time...

 

[UlaVii]

To clarify, we do issue permanent bans on players who cheat. We’ve been catching and banning cheaters since the launch of the game. There’s a range of ways that players cheat, and some methods are easier to detect than others. For the most obvious ways (botting, hacking, use of external software), we have systems that can automatically detect it, and because it often stands out clearly, we are much more comfortable handing out permanent bans in those cases, and we do.

 

Many players from the community complained about a player who was spoiling GSF for over 6 months with intentional suicides and frequent bot usage. You would load into matches and he would be in control of 4 ships on the same team. He openly bragged about it and posted screenshots of his bot setup. Tickets, videos, screenshots including text of him bragging and his screenshots of his bot software actually being used for PvP wintrading were submitted and nothing was done. He did it all for achievements and is still here, openly bragging about how he got away with it. He claimed that he did receive a 3 day ban but that Eric personally unbanned him. More recently he claimed to have used the invulnerability exploit to get into the top 3 ranked. All of this was submitted and he's still here with his rewards. He's even posted in this thread. He claims he is allowed to continue because he helps you identify exploits.

 

We all see this and sadly it makes a mockery of you and the things that you say are meaningless. The proof of that is that he is still here with everything he wanted.

[merovejec]

The proof of that is that he is still here with everything he wanted.

 

Dear Ula Vi, I am suprised how this issue still resides in your head. To be honest, I think that you finnaly had some excitement during that in GSF, thats why you remember it so well.

 

I have no shame and rather speak up than be silent about this as Devs are not allowed to comment. Yes, I have made mistakes and asked Bioware for another chance. They were kind enough to let me play the game again. Please dont blame Eric or anyone, I think its pretty solid and fair behavior that you allow an offender a second chance. We have this in RL laws, prisoners etc. Even the wintraders or exploiters have this. Bioware has no problems with issuing perma bans, I know it. They just need to focus on the right people now.

 

This is where it ends. The rest of your post is pure lies! Its such a typical behavior of people that when they do not know the truth they think things up. I heard all kinds of things about me already. People thought I was 15 yrs old, they wondered why I spoke so many languages, some even said I used google translate, there was this time when people thought I worked for EA in Germany..... so much silly stuff. "He claimed he used invulnearability bug..." OMG that one made me laugh, its the same as that discord photoshop stuff.

 

Anyway, I got my punishment, I was banned and restored, but my achievements were deleted and then I earned them the honest way ("I am not such a bad pilot myself"). That is the end of story so please put it to the past where it belongs and stop making up stories.

Edited March 18, 2019 by merovejec

[EmanoWanga]

Dear Ula Vi, I am suprised how this issue still resides in your head.

 

I have a feeling he will still be telling the tale to his grandkids

 

Jokes aside, why do all threads always have to derail because of this? To be honest I think this is a good example of how Bioware used their ban hammer but then the player got on the right track. This is exactly how it is supposed to be. I heard only good on this player and I know he had some stuff before, but people do make mistakes.

 

I do not think Mike needs to explain stuff here. This was a good choice by Devs to give a person another chance. Once the community is against you then its really hard to prove anything, this is the internet after all. What we should be concerned about are those cheaters who arent here on forums helping other players and adding to the discussion. The Top 3 and Gold players who enjoying their flairs, gotten through cheats, silently in the game. At least this player has the character to come back and prove he made a mistake but has changed. I do not see posts from players I cannot name.....

 

Anyway thank you for the update @Mike, those statistics will be welcome and as for the players getting together to cheat, you cant only rely on programmed software here, that really needs to be analyzed.

[Lhancelot]

I am just wondering what else Mike and the devs have discussed. Particularly if they are still considering making systemic changes to the scoring in ranked (solo and/or team)?

[snave]

Dear Ula Vi, I am suprised how this issue still resides in your head. To be honest, I think that you finnaly had some excitement during that in GSF, thats why you remember it so well.

 

I have no shame and rather speak up than be silent about this as Devs are not allowed to comment. Yes, I have made mistakes and asked Bioware for another chance. They were kind enough to let me play the game again. Please dont blame Eric or anyone, I think its pretty solid and fair behavior that you allow an offender a second chance. We have this in RL laws, prisoners etc. Even the wintraders or exploiters have this. Bioware has no problems with issuing perma bans, I know it. They just need to focus on the right people now.

 

This is where it ends. The rest of your post is pure lies! Its such a typical behavior of people that when they do not know the truth they think things up. I heard all kinds of things about me already. People thought I was 15 yrs old, they wondered why I spoke so many languages, some even said I used google translate, there was this time when people thought I worked for EA in Germany..... so much silly stuff. "He claimed he used invulnearability bug..." OMG that one made me laugh, its the same as that discord photoshop stuff.

 

Anyway, I got my punishment, I was banned and restored, but my achievements were deleted and then I earned them the honest way ("I am not such a bad pilot myself"). That is the end of story so please put it to the past where it belongs and stop making up stories.

 

You preaching in this thread is like the Catholic Church condemning Michael Jackson.

[TrixxieTriss]

This is exactly the format I had in mind . After running this plan past several members of the team, I believe I can get very close to this. Full disclosure, for privacy reasons there may be some cases where I have to be less specific than I’d like to be. I've already started on the first report for season 11, look for it as a new thread next week.

 

Thanks for sharing this! I did see that Apex report, and it’s a great read.

 

To clarify, we do issue permanent bans on players who cheat. We’ve been catching and banning cheaters since the launch of the game. There’s a range of ways that players cheat, and some methods are easier to detect than others. For the most obvious ways (botting, hacking, use of external software), we have systems that can automatically detect it, and because it often stands out clearly, we are much more comfortable handing out permanent bans in those cases, and we do.

 

Conspiring with others to fix matches is a method of cheating that is more difficult to prove conclusively, but we are making strides with the tools we have at our disposal and the different ways we’re able to look for it. We know this particular area is one in which we need the most help, and I want to thank those who send us reports and explanations of this happening. These reports, combined with the improvements we continue to make, have allowed us to increase (albeit more slowly) our confidence levels in these cases. As our confidence grows in our methods, as we increase the frequency and thoroughness of our investigations, and as we better communicate exactly the behavior we won’t tolerate, we will be more comfortable taking increased action against win traders throughout this season and beyond.

 

Until next time...

 

 

Can you please implement an easier way to report cheats using an in game feature. The current way is confusing and semi broken.

Players should also not need to come to the forums to send private messages to Eric Musco to report cheats (which seems to be the main way people actually get caught). We need way in the game to link proof if we have it.

 

Lastly, there needs to be a relaxation on being able to post proof on the forums and not get sanctioned for it. As long as names are blocked or obscured, it isn’t naming or shaming and we should be able to show other players what to look for without getting it removed and getting warnings ourselves.

This might also help educate those who can’t tell:the difference between a cheat and actual game mechanics. If you let the community help educate players here, then false reporting would also drop, which reduces Bioware work load and would make it easier to catch and sanction the real cheaters.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[merovejec]

You preaching in this thread is like the Catholic Church condemning Michael Jackson.

 

This statement told me a lot about you and your limited view of the world. Thank you.

[Sertar]

To be honest I think this is a good example of how Bioware used their ban hammer but then the player got on the right track. This is exactly how it is supposed to be. I heard only good on this player and I know he had some stuff before, but people do make mistakes.

 

I do not think Mike needs to explain stuff here. This was a good choice by Devs to give a person another chance.

Giving people another chance instead of permabanning seems good yes. The problem is there was no punish at all. Or at least not on the points that matter, in this case the cheated top 3 title. Not only did he get it, it was also not removed afterwards and even more important: the person that deserved it rightfully did not get it.

 

He can regret and openly admit his mistakes as much as he want, there has not been justice, and that is the problem here. There are more examples of people that get banned for a week over and over again, you can say pretty much on a regular basis, still running around with S10 rewards, and never getting the permaban that you would expect at some point.

 

If you don't want to get rid of people by permabanning, at least get rid of their stuff. Remove credits, mounts, titles, flairs, achievements, gear, whatever. Let them feel the pain so one day they might actually learn something.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Sertar

[nepochop]

Giving people another chance instead of permabanning seems good yes. The problem is there was no punish at all. Or at least not on the points that matter, in this case the cheated top 3 title. Not only did he get it, it was also not removed afterwards and even more important: the person that deserved it rightfully did not get it.

 

He can regret and openly admit his mistakes as much as he want, there has not been justice, and that is the problem here. There are more examples of people that get banned for a week over and over again, you can say pretty much on a regular basis, still running around with S10 rewards, and never getting the permaban that you would expect at some point.

 

If you don't want to get rid of people by permabanning, at least get rid of their stuff. Remove credits, mounts, titles, flairs, achievements, gear, whatever. Let them feel the pain so one day they might actually learn something.

 

If you read carefully, he got the punishment in form of achievements reset. That was what he valued the most and they removed that. He had to play months to get it back, I think thats a good compromise from Biowares side. I do not know how it was with Top 3, but in that season the top players just didnt play at all, they got a very high rating (like Kanaba always did it) and then stopped playing, so when you passed them on leaderboards they would not play to get back to the top spot.

 

That is exactly the question, why are there other players who cheated ranked but didnt get perma banned, since this player got permabanned instantly! According to Mike this is being done and we see that it works. Some players do change after, but others apparently not, those are the ones that we should be concerned about. It has a lot to do with the account selling in my opinion as the accounts being sold are new, starting accounts, not long time running accounts and these are treated differently, they are forgiven their first mistake, but their 1 mistake earns them top 3 title and then the account can be sold once its unbanned due to mercy.....

[UlaVii]

Anyway, I got my punishment, I was banned and restored, but my achievements were deleted and then I earned them the honest way ("I am not such a bad pilot myself"). That is the end of story so please put it to the past where it belongs and stop making up stories.

 

If you read carefully, he got the punishment in form of achievements reset. That was what he valued the most and they removed that. He had to play months to get it back, I think thats a good compromise from Biowares side.

 

Jokes aside, why do all threads always have to derail because of this? To be honest I think this is a good example of how Bioware used their ban hammer but then the player got on the right track. This is exactly how it is supposed to be. I heard only good on this player and I know he had some stuff before, but people do make mistakes.

 

The achievements were not reset. We proved that when we inspected you and posted the screenshots at the time. You should of been perma banned for what you did and what you have been doing since. Every time you post in one of the exploit/bot/ban threads you make a mockery of the producers and the people who play the game without cheating but then you know that which is why you do it.

 

Pick one account to post with and stick with it instead of posting replies to make yourself look better.

Edited March 19, 2019 by UlaVii

[snave]

This statement told me a lot about you and your limited view of the world. Thank you.

 

Shamoane

[Lhancelot]

Pick one account to post with and stick with it instead of posting replies to make yourself look better.

 

You might be onto something here.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Pick one account to post with and stick with it instead of posting replies to make yourself look better.

 

Hahaha! Those must be his multi-boxing accounts

[merovejec]

Pick one account to post with and stick with it instead of posting replies to make yourself look better.

 

Yes, this is your typical paranoja. Sure, all accounts on forums are mine!! Funny that they said same about me, being paranoid over the pvp community working together to get top 3 spots. Anyway I have proof of my case, but i wont resort to publishing emails. For one, its text you can fake and for the other, there is no point, I have said it all.

[Sertar]

Pick one account to post with and stick with it instead of posting replies to make yourself look better.

Paranoia Part 1

 

the pvp community working together to get top 3 spots.

Paranoia Part 2

 

I don’t think there is need to talk about Part 1, that one is pretty obvious. Part 2 should be obvious as well, but apparently for some people it’s not. You even say the word yourself: pvp. In what world is a bunch of pvp players working together? Especially because most of the better players (and also the wintraders) try to secure multiple spots for themselves. That place is so much about envy and rivalry, there is very little space for pacts or agreements or however you call it.

 

Just as an example. Some of last season‘s Solo Ranked top3s, doesn’t matter if wintraded or not, without namecalling but you will know them:

 

- the most prevelant mara/sentinel queuer, the guy with the hundreds of toons, always blaming people for throwing and in response threatening to throw for them himself.

- the most prevelant French wintrader, botter and account buyer/seller, always trying to draw the picture of him being legit this season and channel the hate onto aforementioned mara/sentinel.

- the PvE player that got top3 rating on multiple toons with a small amount of wins.

- everyone‘s favorite Russian streamer that secured his merc spot in the last few days.

- the highest rated character of S10 that just played at the start of the season but nobody passed him.

- the 11 wins shadow from French server

 

Now, please tell me how all of these people worked together. I‘m honestly curious.

[merovejec]

Now, please tell me how all of these people worked together. I‘m honestly curious

 

That is a very nice outline, I couldnt have summarized it better myself. However you did mention some and I do not know if it was on purpose that you left out the others who are from that "community". Or you just dont know them.

 

@Mike please consider this. Thank you.

Edited March 20, 2019 by merovejec

[Sertar]

That is a very nice outline, I couldnt have summarized it better myself. However you did mention some and I do not know if it was on purpose that you left out the others who are from that "community". Or you just dont know them.

 

@Mike please consider this. Thank you.

Which "others"? You were talking about top 3s and I "named" the first three people that came to my mind and took another three randomly from the Solo Ranked leaderboards. So these are 6 people that either rival each other directly or have absolutely nothing to do with each other. We could complete the list for last season, but that wouldn’t really support your argument in my eyes. Unless you finally tell me how that should look like in action or give me an example similar to my list.

[merovejec]

Which "others"? You were talking about top 3s and I "named" the first three people that came to my mind and took another three randomly from the Solo Ranked leaderboards. So these are 6 people that either rival each other directly or have absolutely nothing to do with each other. We could complete the list for last season, but that wouldn’t really support your argument in my eyes. Unless you finally tell me how that should look like in action or give me an example similar to my list.

 

You named 6 people from 96, sure some got more top3s but still, there are many more to it. If you know who they are you should see the connections, but I really dont want to discuss this stuff anymore with the people here cause it leads nowhere and people just keeping mentioning me and not these all time offenders.

[Lhancelot]

people just keeping mentioning me and not these all time offenders.

 

I think anyone caught cheating/exploiting ought to have a permanent dunce cap worn on all characters in the game, so everyone knows who the offenders are and the offenders themselves are always reminded of their shady past.