Playing the Sith Empire does not feel satisfying/rewarding anymore. (SPOILERS)

[casirabit]

Why? Because I miss him and want him around. (Yes, apparently, I'm selfish.) It was stupid for him to hang with Satele, because he would've eventually as a ghost learned that the commander is who went down with the ship with him. I'd say that's more worth his time than Satele, in my opinion. I don't buy that there was no one worth Satele's time. She's always supposedly been so heroic, you'd think she'd go down fighting for what's right, and protecting her republic and order, not camping and not even paying so much as one visit to her son on the same world. She's a lost cause. I don't 'get' her; I suppose I never have, because to me, blood is blood, family is family and is everything, even if you fight amongst yourselves, it's always a united front against anyone else. That's what family and blood is. No matter what. What you believe in defines you. Family is everything and you cling to it and protect it. Her personality has bothered me from the get-go, even before Theron was born, but especially after he was born.

 

While I agree with about family for the most part, there are exceptions to that. Sometimes a person in your family you have to have nothing to do with after they have done things to hurt the family. Doesn't mean you don't love them but sometimes there are situations that you have to keep them away from the family because of various reasons.

[SiegePro]

To those saying “Your Fleet is Gone.” No, only the Eternal Fleet is gone. All the Pub and Imp warships that showed up at the end of Fallen Empire (and which were ceded to you after Saresh’s attempted coup still belong to you. The new Twillik companion also brought a pirate fleet with him as part of the bargain.

 

It’s not a curbstomper like the Eternal Fleet, but if your only intention amounts to “stay out of my yard” it’s more than sufficient. Especially since Odessan is actually on the opposite side of the Republic from the Empire. Basically, taking out the Alliance is more trouble than its worth unless the Alliance starts something first.

 

This isn’t to say the Alliance shouldn’t pick a side for the long term. Whoever wins if you stay out of it may not be all that interested in your desire to remain independent once the other side is wiped out and while you may not be able to take out the Pubs or Empire yourself, the addition of your forces to one side could throw the war in that side’s favor and they’d owe you for the win.

 

And frankly, unless you’re a psychopath, there’s zero reason to actually pick the Empire. As proven by the Rift Alliance in the Consular story, the Republic favors voluntary admission rather than conquest and is more than willing to allow semi-autonomous regions to call their own shots within their territories and other perks as incentives for joining.

 

In other words, the best bet if your goal is long term independence is to side with the Republic because they won’t try to conquer you afterwards the moment they sense weakness. They’ll tolerate monarchies and corporate oligarchies as planetary governments so unless you’re literally sending people to death camps even your moderately darkside Commander/Emperor should be able to maintain their sovereignty.

[SithKoriandr]

Why? Because I miss him and want him around. (Yes, apparently, I'm selfish.) It was stupid for him to hang with Satele, because he would've eventually as a ghost learned that the commander is who went down with the ship with him. I'd say that's more worth his time than Satele, in my opinion. I don't buy that there was no one worth Satele's time. She's always supposedly been so heroic, you'd think she'd go down fighting for what's right, and protecting her republic and order, not camping and not even paying so much as one visit to her son on the same world. She's a lost cause. I don't 'get' her; I suppose I never have, because to me, blood is blood, family is family and is everything, even if you fight amongst yourselves, it's always a united front against anyone else. That's what family and blood is. No matter what. What you believe in defines you. Family is everything and you cling to it and protect it. Her personality has bothered me from the get-go, even before Theron was born, but especially after he was born.

 

I agree with you that having to join either faction at this point is stupid. Making us help one or the other side really reduces and diminishes who we are and our accomplishments. I think it would've been a lot more fun, as, 'who am I going to take over first?' and 'how will I rebuild these worlds or the preferred world in my image?' and 'What did I want from it, and make it that.'

 

Taking away the alliance or reducing is just caving to people who think a two-sided battle is exciting...that it's so Star Wars, just because that's how it is in the future. Who's to say what it was in the past. Who's to say the Alliance didn't swallow up both, become an Empire and the newer rebels came up after?

 

I'm inclined to think we agree on more than not. I just really love Darth Marr and wish he could be back, even as a Force Ghost would be fine, to advise us. I trust him more than Lana, I'll tell ya, and I trust his wisdom.

 

PS. Don't know if you watch Supernatural, but Crowley, he went down like a Boss, it was awesome, but I miss him too and would love him back on the show.

 

Marr was a slaver. Racist. Murderer. Yet he was nice to your character. So, you think "Oh hey, he's any okay guy."

 

Yet, Satele Shan, is the one you have a problem with, because she's not the best mom in the world? She was raised Jedi with a guy who, yes, I feel she should've told anyways, wasn't exactly what looked like a perfect father material.

 

May have all changed if he knew, sure.

 

However, plenty of people give up children for adoption. Do you hate them all?

 

That said. I agree the side choosing is dumb now, especially since they say "You can join the other side now, but not really."

 

Then give us a stupid reason to be on that side.

 

Maybe they should've just said, Empire characters rejoin the Empire and Republic characters rejoin the Republic and left it at that.

[OldVengeance]

Darth Marr is cool. And his leadership was beneficial to the Empire's military, perhaps more than any other Sith Lord.

 

But he's not what you might call a morally upstanding citizen.

[Paulsutherland]

Marr was a slaver. Racist. Murderer.

 

When did Darth Marr do anything racist?

[SithKoriandr]

When did Darth Marr do anything racist?

 

When he became a Darth and admitted it was time for the Empire to accept aliens. If you don't think he was against aliens before, I'd say you're being silly.

 

However, at least you don't deny the slaver and murderer. All far worse things.

Edited March 1, 2019 by SithKoriandr

[Paulsutherland]

When he became a Darth and admitted it was time for the Empire to accept aliens. If you don't think he was against aliens before, I'd say you're being silly.

 

However, at least you don't deny the slaver and murderer. All far worse things.

 

Well ... do we know if he openly had a grudge against aliens or just didn't want to challenge the Empire's view on them at the time?

 

He's a Sith, we've all got a kill count in the tens of thousands at this point and enslaving the weak and using them as cannon fodder is part of the job

[Lunafox]

While I agree with about family for the most part, there are exceptions to that. Sometimes a person in your family you have to have nothing to do with after they have done things to hurt the family. Doesn't mean you don't love them but sometimes there are situations that you have to keep them away from the family because of various reasons.

 

I understand what you're saying, and agree it's different for everyone and that people will do what they feel is right for them and their families. I know people who have fallen out with their siblings, or parents, spouses. It makes me sad, and I always hope they'll reconcile, but I also get that there are reasons they don't. I have a very small family, a very tight-knit family, and sometimes it's hard for me not to view the world and others through what I've been lucky enough to know all my life. There are reasons not to be in contact, like abuse and cruelty, reasons, for instance, my mother would never allow my father back into our lives, and reasons I wouldn't, but someone who abuses, in our scope of the word family, isn't a family member. Forgive me, if it seemed, I was trying to oversimplify what is a complicated thing for many people. I can only speak to my experience.

 

In terms of the game, I couldn't do what Satele did to Theron. I would become the worst version of myself to protect and love him if I had to; I'm not selfless. Jedi Order be damned.

 

 

 

Marr was a slaver. Racist. Murderer. Yet he was nice to your character. So, you think "Oh hey, he's any okay guy."

 

Yet, Satele Shan, is the one you have a problem with, because she's not the best mom in the world? She was raised Jedi with a guy who, yes, I feel she should've told anyways, wasn't exactly what looked like a perfect father material.

 

May have all changed if he knew, sure.

 

However, plenty of people give up children for adoption. Do you hate them all?

 

That said. I agree the side choosing is dumb now, especially since they say "You can join the other side now, but not really."

 

Then give us a stupid reason to be on that side.

 

Maybe they should've just said, Empire characters rejoin the Empire and Republic characters rejoin the Republic and left it at that.

 

 

I never claimed that Marr was a saint. He wasn't a racist though, at least not to the level of others in the Empire. He was a proponent for allowing aliens in to serve and to hold important positions, as illustrated throughout the game and in the comics and novel Annihilation. Whether this is out of pragmatism, as in more people are needed for the war effort, or out of a true sense that aliens deserve a place in the Empire, isn't terribly clear. Do I care? No. I play dark side V characters, so it would appear my toon is a slaver, murderer and probably any other abhorrent labels you care to apply. Do I care? No. I like playing evil characters because it allows me to walk on the wild side and to do things I'd never do in real life. It's also a way to work out frustration. It's fun to be evil.

 

In terms of Star Wars characters, Marr is my favorite character. Perfection in terms of the scope of human virtue is not a requirement when it comes to having a favorite character. People like all kinds of flawed characters for whatever reason. I like Marr. I hate Satele. That's my opinion, and I don't need to be judged for it, no more than I have to justify it. People will like who they like, regardless of the horrors they've visited upon others in a fictional work *coughArcanncough* Does that make all of them evil? I doubt it. I may not get their preferences, any more than you get mine, but that's just how it is.

 

This is a Star Wars forum and we are discussing fictional people. How I feel about fictional people is vastly less complicated than I feel about real-life people and I refuse to be drawn into some sort of judgment about real-life people for your entertainment.

 

About the game, I like that we get to defect, I've been hoping for that story angle for years, and I just wish it seemed more like a defection. I get that in terms of dailies and mechanics, we have to do whatever set of dailies is laid down for our side, but I hope that in the story, we will experience what it is to switch sides and even be called by new titles and have new roles in our new society. I think it would've been interesting to keep the 3rd faction, even if it is and has always been my preference on ALL my characters to go to the Empire and rule it.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Lunafox

[ShieldProtection]

My agent married with lana beniko, so it does satisfied/rewarded me;)

[SiegePro]

That said. I agree the side choosing is dumb now, especially since they say "You can join the other side now, but not really."

 

Then give us a stupid reason to be on that side.

 

Maybe they should've just said, Empire characters rejoin the Empire and Republic characters rejoin the Republic and left it at that.

If my Inquisitor had no choice but to rejoin the Empire, I’d delete them (and they’re my main).

 

I was actually unhappy that Ossuss required you to play double agent from all the reports that you basically accomplish nothing in doing so. However, when I actually played Ossuss I not only sabotaged the Imp fighters to protect Republic pilots, I also undermined morale for the Imps, didn’t destroy the colonist farms, kept the food technology out of Imperial hands and (via extensive stealthing) limited the casualties to about six Jedi (three during the recovery of Malgus’ pod and the three required targets in the temple assault)... all of whom I dropped using lightning so I can pretend I just left them stunned instead of dead).

 

In short, I actually felt like I’d done my best to covertly undermine the Empire and aid the Republic with minimal damage to the Jedi (and no damage to the colonists by me).

 

That said, all the letters from my most valued companions saying they’re uneasy and might jump ship due to my “helping” the Empire makes me hope a real public change of allegiance is coming. Jorgan specifically was my preferred companion for my Inquisitor during the 4.0 era (and Qyzen before chapter 11 dropped). The idea that I’d lose him as a companion even as I’m actually working undercover for the Republic is quite maddening.

 

I could care less if I lost Xalek (I never wanted him in the first place), Darth Hexid, Lokin and Major Pierce, though Talos leaving would make me sad (though at least the Reclamation Service isn’t likely to be on the front lines... and as a class companion for my Inquisitor he might stick around anyway). I can’t save people from themselves and any Imps who want to go back to a system where Vowron, Malgus and probably Jadus are in charge are too stupid to live.

[ApollosNight]

To those saying “Your Fleet is Gone.” No, only the Eternal Fleet is gone. All the Pub and Imp warships that showed up at the end of Fallen Empire (and which were ceded to you after Saresh’s attempted coup still belong to you. The new Twillik companion also brought a pirate fleet with him as part of the bargain.

 

It’s not a curbstomper like the Eternal Fleet, but if your only intention amounts to “stay out of my yard” it’s more than sufficient. Especially since Odessan is actually on the opposite side of the Republic from the Empire. Basically, taking out the Alliance is more trouble than its worth unless the Alliance starts something first.

 

This isn’t to say the Alliance shouldn’t pick a side for the long term. Whoever wins if you stay out of it may not be all that interested in your desire to remain independent once the other side is wiped out and while you may not be able to take out the Pubs or Empire yourself, the addition of your forces to one side could throw the war in that side’s favor and they’d owe you for the win.

 

And frankly, unless you’re a psychopath, there’s zero reason to actually pick the Empire. As proven by the Rift Alliance in the Consular story, the Republic favors voluntary admission rather than conquest and is more than willing to allow semi-autonomous regions to call their own shots within their territories and other perks as incentives for joining.

 

In other words, the best bet if your goal is long term independence is to side with the Republic because they won’t try to conquer you afterwards the moment they sense weakness. They’ll tolerate monarchies and corporate oligarchies as planetary governments so unless you’re literally sending people to death camps even your moderately darkside Commander/Emperor should be able to maintain their sovereignty.

 

Actually, it's been made clear that we only have a splinter-size force left around Odessan since most of our troops went back to their factions after the Eternal Fleet was demolished. We have next to nothing when it comes to army size. We are not a real faction anymore; the only thing we actually have is influence via our name and actions.

 

Second, I can thing of several reasons for rejoining the Empire. First, it's my home, so I would be slaughtering my brothers by joining the Republic. Second, it's changing and becoming more open to aliens and reform. Darth Nox and Marr were working towards this before I took my carbonite nap; now we can finish it. Third, the Republic is a corrupt joke with a former Chancellor who attempted to kill me and a current Chancellor who sent a "Oh, I'm terribly sorry" note with nothing to show for it. Even Jorgan said as much.

 

The Empire is the sole hope for order and peace in the galaxy at this point, especially if (like me) you sided with them on Iokath.

Edited March 1, 2019 by ApollosNight

[Paulsutherland]

Actually, it's been made clear that we only have a splinter-size force left around Odessan since most of our troops went back to their factions after the Eternal Fleet was demolished. We have next to nothing when it comes to army size. We are not a real faction anymore; the only thing we actually have is influence via our name and actions.

 

Second, I can thing of several reasons for rejoining the Empire. First, it's my home, so I would be slaughtering my brothers by joining the Republic. Second, it's changing and becoming more open to aliens and reform. Darth Nox and Marr were working towards this before I took my carbonite nap; now we can finish it. Third, the Republic is a corrupt joke with a former Chancellor who attempted to kill me and a current Chancellor who sent a "Oh, I'm terribly sorry" note with nothing to show for it. Even Jorgan said as much.

 

The Empire is the sole hope for order and peace in the galaxy at this point, especially if (like me) you sided with them on Iokath.

 

In one of the codex entries doesn't it say a good portion of Zakuul's army personnel joined the Alliance?

[ApollosNight]

In one of the codex entries doesn't it say a good portion of Zakuul's army personnel joined the Alliance?

 

The last codex entry we got was that our Alliance had barely any military force left, and we also got a letter saying that Zakuul pulled out of the Alliance as well.

[SiegePro]

The last codex entry we got was that our Alliance had barely any military force left, and we also got a letter saying that Zakuul pulled out of the Alliance as well.

Only true from a certain point of view. Here’s the actual entry...

 

“Eternal Alliance - State of the Galaxy

News of the near-total destruction of the Eternal Alliance fleet has spread quickly, leading to renewed fears of a reignited war between the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire. Both factions have reportedly redoubled their efforts to hoard supplies, munitions, and fuel in anticipation of renewed hostilities. Resource shortages, already a common occurrence on many core worlds, are becoming a daily reality across the galaxy at large.

 

With no single unifying threat to motivate their continued cooperation, these tensions have led many of the Alliance's forces to return to their original sides of the age-old conflict, rejoining their longtime allies and waiting with grim certainty for the war to begin anew.

 

A hardened force of dedicated troops and staff still maintains the Alliance base on Odessen, however, and a small fleet still patrols Wild Space on their behalf. The Commander's closest allies remain loyal to the leader who helped unite them during one of the galaxy's darkest times--whatever path the Commander chooses next, they will most certainly follow, potentially tipping the scales of any conflict....”

 

The question is what does “Many” mean. To me “Many” doesn’t mean almost everyone left. Heck, “Many” doesn’t even mean “most” of them left.

 

What is canon from the entry is that we have a hardened force of troops and staff, a small fleet (which gets bolstered by the Twillik’s pirate fleet if you let him join) and our companions (around 50 by my count) who will follow where we lead and that this force is sufficient to tip the scales of any future conflict.

 

Funny... that sounds exactly like what I said... The Alliance is more trouble than its worth for the Pubs or Imps to try and eliminate if they’re fighting each other (two front wars being bad) unless the Alliance starts something first and that while they couldn’t wipe out the Pubs or Imps on their own, they’re a big enough force to tip the balance to whichever side they choose to throw in with.

 

* * * *

 

As to “the Empire was my home and my brothers.” I was a SLAVE of the Empire for most of my life until a Sith Lord who wanted to take my body for her own had me inducted into an abusive Sith training program and had me struggle to assemble all the things she needed to kill me. Then her boss tries to kill me because I’m unclean or something. I manage to get a spot on the Dark Council mainly because I took out the Darth trying to kill me. That lasts for maybe a year where I see that Marr is literally the only thing keeping the Empire from eating itself until Marr is killed and I spend 5 years as a popsicle.

 

You know who my Inquisitor cares about in the Empire? The slaves they spent most of their life among.

 

We tried it from the inside. The only reasonable authority figure in the entire place died six years ago and psychopaths are running the show. Sure they’re more open to aliens... because they’re desperate for manpower. They still rely on slave labor as the backbone of their economy and only Sith get to actually call the shots on anything that matters.

 

So what’s the best way for the ex-slave to help their brothers? Burn the Empire to the ground and salt the earth.

 

Honestly, they’re probably more zealous about destroying the Empire than the Republic actually is (the Republic would probably settle for the Empire not being able to threaten the Republic, my Inquisitor wants the Imperial system utterly destroyed).

 

Sure some idiot Jedi will create his copycat Banite version in a few thousand years that spends a thousand more years plotting only for their new Empire to fall apart in less than a generation with the last Sith thrown down an elevator shaft by his redeemed apprentice (who then proptly died and became a Jedi Force Ghost... like Darth Marr), but that’s a problem for my great^100 grandkids to deal with.

 

The point is the Sith Empire sucks... it’s heyday was being the unwitting tool and dupes for a Force monster who wanted to eat the galaxy. Marr tried to hold it together for as long as he could after that, but that was only a few years until the Force monster killed him. Even Marr realized he was wrong about everything and start quoting Jedi teachings as a Force Ghost. It’s a lunatic asylum built on advancement through backstabbing, treachery and raw power.

 

Malgus tosses a member of the actual Dark Council to her near death because he wasn’t happy with her rate of progress. Neither Sith on Ossus showed any regard for the troops under their command to the point that Moff Pyron went to the Alliance Commander for help keeping his troops safe because he knew the Sith didn’t give a frak.

 

Frankly, my Inquisitor isn’t a Sith. Never in any way that mattered and not even in name since they came out of their carbonite vacation. For them Force Lightning is just a tool like it was (will be) for Kyle Katarn. They long for the day they can publicly declare for the Republic because that’s one step closer to freeing their people... the Imperial slaves... from the Sith Empire’s tyranny.

 

My bounty hunter alt took the Republic pardon and has no true loyalty to anyone except his crew. He generally screwed over people who were clearly darkside whenever there was an option to. He’d probably sleep better limiting his client list to the Republic anyway.

 

My Agent alt became a free agent because Imperial Intelligence was monstrous. They’d be the one most likely to just stay the frak out of any new war (their mission for their loyalists: find and remove all records of Odessan and its coordinates from every Pub and Imp database you can find. Let the galaxy forget we exist and hope the leaders of both sides kills each other).

 

I never played past vanilla with my Warrior alt because having seen all the other stories by then, I figured he died ignominiously fighting Zakuul and is dead in an unmarked grave because even the lightside version of the Emperor/Empire’s Wrath was an elitist and stupidly loyal to a horrible idea. He’s the only one who might side with the Empire if I had the slightest desire to ever play him again... which I don’t.

 

So no... I see no reason for any character who isn’t a psychopath to rejoin the Empire. Picked every darkside option for kicks and giggles? Sure, it’s right up your alley. Power hungry thug who thinks they can usurp Acina/Vowron and rule in their stead? Yeah, the Empire might make sense. Sadist who uses raw power and fear to make people bend to your every whim? Yup, you could call the Empire home.

 

A remotely sane individual with even an ounce of compassion for anyone other than yourself? There is no way I could ever see them siding with the Empire. My Ossuss trip to see Malora and Malgus in action and how they’re treating those under their command (not to mention considering a farming colony a valid military target because some Jedi are there) made my decision to side with the Republic damned easy.

Edited March 1, 2019 by SiegePro