Gathering Feedback

[Khaleg]

It's 100% what's happening here.

 

Focus for this game is now virtually all based around marketing, you cannot make the argument they're trying to use a product based solution when the product is receiving small irregular updates that are pushed with as much hype as possible.

 

The CM team is a marketing extension which means they are concerned with the public perception, not the reality. Why do you think we've had little to no community management? Once 6.0 is announced that will change and the CM team will work in conjunction with the assigned influencers to push whatever narrative they feel will sell the game.

 

Ossus is a time-gated mess implemented to keep people busy repeating the same content over and over until they can drop the next hype bomb that will keep you subbed for 3 months more. It's the most obvious use of loss aversion and time gating I've ever seen in any video game that isn't mobile based.

 

BTW I'm not against marketing approaches, but they need to be balanced if you want to succeed in more than just the short term.

 

We have no innovation, we have regression.

 

I pretty much agree with both of your postings. I think there were even 3 of them including a shorter one. :-)

Also, does anybody else feel as well that Eric's second posting in this thread is, sorry Eric, just another bunch of rather more than less empty marketing phrases and platitudes, and oh so "coincidental" promises?!

Just one example "...we MAY get to a point of having him step more into the forums..." - marketing bs aside this translates into there are no actual plans to do so at that point, at least there were none until now - and this is just ONE example from this posting. Read between the lines guys, and in addition precisely for that matter.

 

Ossus is a very cheap play out time game, blowing up not much (gfx design is very nice though) into something "enormous" with empty marketing blah blah that can't stand reality, filled with mindless grinding and blatant playerbase harassment (mod/enhancements slot bound even in combination with multiple drops of the same f... item over and over to name just one example from the harassments).

 

Imho it all can be broken down to the elephant in the room:

This game runs on life support with a crew that is so tiny (I made that joke yesterday that the Bioware Austin SWTOR team consists of 3 people staring at an aquarium they have recently bought for the office all work day and I bet that is not so far from the truth) that it couldn't even do much better even if they intended to. This game is economically run by minimization principle and empty marketing bs to virtually blow up that minimum or better said the output a bit. I guess this is the guideline from EA for quite some time now. It's sad but true.

 

But what makes me really mad is not the fact itself even though it's really sad but that they expect us players to be that dumb and ignorant to not realize this - because it is so damn obvious.

Invest in this game at least with manpower and make a real effort or just close it down - and spare us the empty marketing bs please. There are enough people including me who basically really love this game BUT we want to see some REAL effort, not faked and artificially blown up one with a handful of more or less mortivated people running this game. None of them even playing the game I guess, except Keith, in case he still plays at all.

I mean, look, one more example, EVERY December you release an update with a sh...l.. of serious bugs/issues that are not fixed within almost 3 months now and that every year, and some most likely never based on experience. That is unacceptable for a game that is online 24/7. And it happens EVERY friggin' year for the last minimum 3 years now.

I don't know about you guys but I don't like it that much to be taken as a fool.

 

Eric, we ALL SEE (at least the more clever ones) that you run this game on minimization principle and we don't like it. Please change that and beg EA for the moniez. :-)

Edited February 24, 2019 by Khaleg

[limenutpen]

Thank you Eric.

 

Do not forget PvPers, a part of game which in the past and history of the game you have taken a lot of from and in return given a few nuggets.

 

My suggestion.

 

- Return of PvP dedicated gear

- Change the small daily (2 game dailty)

- Split Arena Que to that of regular WZ

- RETURN of 8 vs 8 Ranked

 

Do this and your PvP player base will increase ten fold.

 

So hopefully when 6.0 come alive we can have all or most of the above.

[MSpectre]

Can you folks raise the price of your cartel market items please, they're too low.

 

Can you also get rid off all the inconvenient story content all together and focus on dailies/weeklies.

 

BIG thanks to all the hard-working and passionate people over at EA for creating such a masterpiece of a game that brings joy to many around the World!

[SteveTheCynic]

Can you folks raise the price of your cartel market items please, they're too low.

 

Can you also get rid off all the inconvenient story content all together and focus on dailies/weeklies.

 

BIG thanks to all the hard-working and passionate people over at EA for creating such a masterpiece of a game that brings joy to many around the World!

Needs bigger [sARCASM] tags.

[Nmyownworld]

… how can we improve?

Eric Musco, look at the Rishi SH thread from the PTS forum. Players gave feedback, suggestions. Devs provided responses, explanations, and implemented some changes. That's how it should be done.

 

Look at how you handled the Influencers thread. Explaining Influencers before a smoldering rumor became a raging flame of anger. That's how it should be done.

 

Leaving players to post concerns with zero response from devs, allowing anger to build, being silent when there is a large consensus of concern from the playerbase ... that is how it should not be done.

 

And, no dev started threads that go on for months with no dev response. Speaking for myself, that sort of nonsense leaves me feeling like I've been played, not that my feedback is being considered. It's frustrating. I don't expect every thread to have a dev response. However, there are times when I think a dev response sooner, rather than later, is warranted.

 

-- When there are game breaking bugs. A quick acknowledgement is needed. I may not be happy with the time it takes to fix a bug, but at least I know that BW is aware and working on the bug.

 

-- Waves of player dissatisfaction with a change. Please don't wait until player rage reaches a boiling point before stepping in to the conversation.

… how can we improve?

Let players in on the conversation. I'm not saying that players need to know every detail. But, more give from the devs would be appreciated. A denied request may make a player unhappy, but an unanswered concern is frustrating. Again, I'm not looking for a hand holding situation with posts; just a regular dev presence in the forums. I believe you folks are working hard. And, yes. I'm asking for a bit more.

 

A general suggestion: Right now, SWTOR is over a number of social media sites, and the official dev forum thread, and the SWTOR blog, etc. Think about when Paxton Rall as a companion was announced. The information was up for, what? a week?, on the SWTOR news or blog, but wasn't noticed until the information was posted on SWTOR's Twitter. A single source of links to all of SWTOR's social media platforms would be nice.

 

On a final note, what did you all do with Keith Kanneg?

Edited February 23, 2019 by Nmyownworld

[Syal]

With all of that out there… how can we improve? I know our feedback loop is by no means perfect, but being able to gather your feedback consistently for each update on PTS has helped us quite a bit in getting direct feedback from you. Share your thoughts!

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

Many said about grind and tier 5 gear system out of purpose ! When will you turn back to 5.0 gear system and reduce the time requested for a tier 5 gear ?

[SteveTheCynic]

Many said about grind and tier 5 gear system out of purpose ! When will you turn back to 5.0 gear system and reduce the time requested for a tier 5 gear ?

More to the point, in the context of this thread, when will BioWare staff *respond* to our concerns? They may well have valid reasons for the change, but until they respond to our concerns by saying *something* about it, we cannot evaluate those reasons.

 

Notice that I'm not saying that they need to reverse the changes, because I don't know what the justification for the changes is because they have not told us.

[Lhancelot]

More to the point, in the context of this thread, when will BioWare staff *respond* to our concerns? They may well have valid reasons for the change, but until they respond to our concerns by saying *something* about it, we cannot evaluate those reasons.

 

Notice that I'm not saying that they need to reverse the changes, because I don't know what the justification for the changes is because they have not told us.

 

Right. That's my point too.

 

If BW really want to better the communication AKA processing feedback then explain changes and also communicate what will be considered for change and what will not so people are not stuck in limbo wondering.

 

The longer people are stuck in limbo wondering "why" and "what" the more resentful and angry players get. Even if it's known the answers will not be viewed favorably, players still ought to have access to why changes are made to the game. Many of the changes have affected parts of the game people enjoyed prior to be altered.

 

Like, locked in mods. Why was this done? This has made one part of the game people enjoyed a lot less enjoyable because now they cannot adjust their mods 100%. It's like having a TV+VCR in one now, instead of separate items. If something is not right with one part, you are stuck with them both together and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

Like, a ranked ELO system that is impossible to enforce. Why is this antiquated system kept when it's clear it's simply impossible to guard against cheaters and manipulation of rating scores? Why were mat farmers were removed from team ranked, but not solo ranked? (Ranked players can go into detail why this was a bad decision.)

 

My point is some things are going on that players have communicated they do not like or do not understand, it would benefit everyone if there was a real flow of communication between the players and someone at BW that can address these types of concerns.

[MishaCantu]

Reducing many of our favourite class romance companions and Theron to zombies and/or crafter fodder by introducing kill options so now they have no part in recent (and from our experience future story) & refusing to confirm whether this is a deliberate way forward for the game or not.

 

[*]Failing to be honest and upfront and over-exaggerating new story content (JUS can be completed in 15-20 mins). If this game's direction is only going to be Ops, PvP, re-runs of events, gear grinds and the Cartel Market in 2019 say so rather than just string us along in the hope that there will be new immersive story or a new expansion - re-running class stories is not going to hold mine or other story focused players attention forever no matter how good some of the original stories are.

 

So much this. If the game is going to turn into just another hack and slash, PvP, occasional OPS, gear grind game then so be it, but be honest about your intentions. The old disclaimer of 'we'd like to do more with companions' just doesn't cut it anymore. If you plan to do away with companion interactions, just say so.

 

A lot is hinging on the story for 6.0, IF it happens at all. For us story players with vested companion interests, much of our continued support might hinge heavily on what you do with our companions. Surprisingly enough, not every player wants to do PvP, or Ops, or conquest. We came for the story, we stay for the story. Believe it or not, a little often goes a long way.

 

Lip service does no one any good. Too many promises made and too many broken. We've heard it all before, ad nauseum. I, personally, don't expect communication to get better, it never has. It's always been knee jerk reactions to player meltdowns, I suspect this post is much the same. Or maybe that one poster was correct about the 'influencer' comments that you wanted to circumvent. I guess we'll hear from you again when the next sh*t storm hits the forums.

[MadDutchman]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet in this thread but it couldn't hurt to repeat it.

 

One of the biggest factors I see to responding to feedback is the extremely limited timeframe that you give yourselves to do it in.

 

As a software developer, I know full well how difficult it is to make last minute changes to features/content. These days the first opportunity we have to even give feedback is when it hits PTS (if it does). This is WAY too late to get design feedback. PTSs are for getting bugs and balance nailed down, not design feedback. To get that, you need to share with us design information before it is implemented.

 

Even some really vague like "We are looking to implement a new daily area with a long term tiered reward system(1), we would like to hear your thoughts on structure/rewards that would make this an enjoyable time investment."

One of the first bits of feedback you'd likely get is "don't tie it to gear progression"

other bits of feedback would probably be all sorts of new cosmetic items (decorations in particular).

Perhaps being able to work up to a new story based companion (like Anri), or just a fun, totally different companion like Marr's ghost. I can think of quite a few people who would be willing to do immense quantities of grind to get Marr's Ghost as a companion.

 

(1) better known as a grindfest, but I realize you have to use marketing speak

[DarthSpuds]

Another suggestion Mr musco... try posting this stuff at the start of the week, instead of when you running out the door for the weekend. So no further responses until the following week (if we are lucky).

 

For truth.

 

If they actually gave a damn about our feedback they wouldn't start a thread asking for it a few minutes before they finish for the weekend.

 

All The Best

[Syal]

Finally,.. now that we all know that Anthem is a fail, the focus is back on SWTOR !

[SteveTheCynic]

Finally,.. now that we all know that Anthem is a fail, the focus is back on SWTOR !

The reviews (user and critic) on Metacritic do, indeed, paint it in a harsh and unflattering light.

 

OK, I admit it, looter shooters aren't my thing, but the pre-preview video that was released a while back did make it look at least like it might be worth a try, but ...

 

A game in a genre that isn't my thing, and one that gets savaged in review-land?

 

I think I'll pass.

[Jdast]

The reviews (user and critic) on Metacritic do, indeed, paint it in a harsh and unflattering light.

 

OK, I admit it, looter shooters aren't my thing, but the pre-preview video that was released a while back did make it look at least like it might be worth a try, but ...

 

A game in a genre that isn't my thing, and one that gets savaged in review-land?

 

I think I'll pass.

 

With respect to Anthem, one has to wonder if there is a sense of schadenfreude emanating throughout the tiny division that is SWTOR in the BW Austin complex. With that said, be careful what some wish for. I'm categorically on record against some that Anthem crumbling has no bearing on SWTOR. Nothing good comes from Anthem tanking. FYI, I gave Anthem a 7/10. If you like loading screens....

 

Back on topic...Eric...stop doing the meta questions of 'what kind of feedback do you want?" This isn't rocket science, and it's not your first time at the rodeo -- or ours.

 

When people raise the same issues on the PTS -- you should probably address the issue. It's just not that complicated. Some will be more micro-oriented like the mods / enhancement issue. Some will be more macro-related concerning overall direction of the game. At this point, though, BW Austin is answering none.

 

Dasty

Edited February 23, 2019 by Jdast

[SteveTheCynic]

Back on topic...Eric...stop doing the meta questions of 'what kind of feedback do you want'? This isn't rocket science, and it's not your first time at the rodeo -- or ours.

 

When people raise the same issues on the PTS -- you should probably address the issue. It's just not that complicated. Some will be more micro-oriented like the mods / enhancement issue. Some will be more macro-related concerning overall direction of the game. At this point, though, BW Austin is answering none.

I went back and looked at Eric's post again, and it's clear that he is asking the wrong question, as if he hasn't understood what the problem is. The thread title itself is ambiguous (who is gathering what feedback), and it's clear from the post that at his end, the perception is that we are concerned that they aren't gathering our feedback.

 

And of course we both know that the problem is that we can't tell if they are gathering *our* feedback because we aren't getting *their* feedback. We say "X is a problem because Y and Z" and the response is « crickets ». OK, crickets are nice, and the sound of crickets on a nice walk in the country on a sunny day adds ambience, but they have no place in a discussion of our concerns about the state and direction of the game.

[Syal]

When people raise the same issues on the PTS -- you should probably address the issue. It's just not that complicated. Some will be more micro-oriented like the mods / enhancement issue. Some will be more macro-related concerning overall direction of the game. At this point, though, BW Austin is answering none.

Dasty

 

THIS !

 

How many post on pst forum alert about the tier 5 gearing mistake ! None of those feedback have been take in count.

 

Now we have a tier 5 gearing how is pure grind and broked ! the 5.0 gearing system was after 1 year patch perfect for all type of player... now you are pleasing only 1% of player via nightmare OP God from machine others have to farm as pig for a tier 5 gear who will be obsolete after 6.0...

 

Eric, Bio, you want feedback, you had feedback... but didn't take in count !so what do you expect ?

[Lunafox]

Finally,.. now that we all know that Anthem is a fail, the focus is back on SWTOR !

 

Unless it tanks the studio. Honestly, I don't know if I should root for that crapshooter to succeed or fail. I just want them to pay attention to SWTOR.

 

My son, who tried Anthem, says it's about a '6' in a genre where '7' is considered mediocre.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Lunafox

[PennyAnn]

There is a ton of great feedback about feedback in this thread. There are lots of familiar names here who have genuinely been posting for the good of this game for YEARS. It breaks my heart to see such reasonable feedback, about feedback that I know will be ignored. The post on Friday on the way out the door and let the thread get too long for you to want to respond over the weekend tactic is tired. Seen it too many times. Fooled me once, shame on you. I've quit believing that you actually mean any of this "we'll do better" because you keep saying it, and never actually DO IT.

 

We can name exactly ONE TIME among those years that the developers interacted with people's suggestions on the PTS and made changes to the Rishi Stronghold. I was glad to see the developers actually listen to the forums in this instance, but was disappointed that it meant that the whole reason you made the stronghold in the first place (the PvP focus) remained buggy and non-working so that an apartment could be added to appease decorators. But that ship has sailed. It is still the one and only time we can point to in seven years that feedback was heard, responded to, and acted upon. Once.

 

I wanted to come back to this game and play through 5.10, but I refuse to do so until you fix the bugs that continue to plague the patch. I am not willing to sacrifice companions that I spent vast amounts of time, money, and energy raising influence with due to the bugs you cannot seem to fix (or even acknowledge half the time).

 

Why did I spend so much time raising the influence of so many companions? For crafting. Now you've obliterated that entire system. Particularly when it comes to Conquest crafting. But I've already given you tons of feedback on that system that you've asked for and ignored, and I'm not going to repeat that fruitless effort.

 

I'm from Missouri. The "Show Me State". And I'm sorry to say that I just don't believe the words you've written here because I've heard them before and it changed nothing. You're gonna have to SHOW ME. Do your job. Manage the Community. At least interact with the community more than once every couple of weeks with short, drive-by posts made on a Friday afternoon as you exit the building.

 

Time to prove it. In the meantime, I will be playing other games and hoping you all do better for the remaining players than you have previously. I will be watching for actual "discussion" here, and signs of feedback being at least heard if not acted upon. You've gotten lots of simple, effective ways to solve this problem suggested to you in this thread already. Ball is in your court now.

 

Give me a reason to return to this game. Give the players who are hanging on by a thread here a reason to stay. Act like it matters. You would be surprised how far a little interaction with the forums would go. It's not that hard to do, you just have to want to do it (instead of just talking about doing it).

 

.

[Costello]

For truth.

 

If they actually gave a damn about our feedback they wouldn't start a thread asking for it a few minutes before they finish for the weekend.

 

All The Best

 

I get a feeling as many others seem to that this thread is a joke to the folks at Bioware, something thrown out last thing on a Friday with every hope it will be buried by start of work Monday and every intention to ignore it. I want to believe that it will lead to great things come Monday morning but we have seen, we promise better communication year after year and yet if one of those was followed through things wouldn't have come to this point.

 

But cause hope is about all we have to look forward to at this point, and not asking too much cause lets face, it better communication isn't going to happen for more than a week at best. My one burning question is, 'does Keith or the people that make the decisions know what a terrible state the game is in after his two years of being a producer?'

 

The chaps over at Fallout 76 (a terribly terribly boring game, with content being mistaken for a mindless grind fest...) have posted a roadmap holding their hands up and saying things are bad but this is what we will do to make them better. Now its not enough to get me to give it another go (its so dull) but in 8 months or so they said there will be a Wastelander expansion with story and consequences and got to hope Fallout style NPCs.

 

Firstly they are holding their hands up and saying, we hear you, things are bad but we are looking to improve. They aren't blaming the code, the studio, the players, the game engine, the lack of funding or ignoring the issue. While here who knows what Keith etc are thinking, all we know his too busy playing Anthem and thinking the game is in the best shape its ever been for players and revenue. And even if the issue with the lack of content, the plot holed story, the overly clunky mechanic heavy operations, PvP are acknowledge are they blamed on the engine, coding, lack of funding, stupid players not wanting to all be progression raiders? Is there any intent that anyone is even going to try and make things better, rather than just rolling out the hype wagon that 2019 best year ever!

 

The other thing the roadmap has done, has shown where they think they need to improve. Now honestly, I think a survival mode is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen, even if you couldn't port your character across as and when. The PvP is so gear and level centric and the lack of factions means you going to have a mess of griefing. But it shows they want to establish PvP options, they then have a couple of raids planned so they acknowledge thats something they are lacking. Finally they plan on their big expansion being story and consequences and choices, which shows they see these things as mattering. So it gives me hope, and PvPers and Raids also know their play styles matter.

 

While here, who knows what the teams priorities, all honesty from whats tested on the PTS, I'd guess progression raiding and gear grinding. From what is added monthly I go the Cartel Market and all anyone can know this is how 2019 will go.

[Sarova]

Hell, I was shocked to learn that other posters I admired like Dulfy and SWTORISTA who have done so much to inspire and inform, aren't even one of this shadow cabal known as 'The Influencers.'

What? Well, that's just wrong

Count me among those that will be dwelling in the Undercity. SWTOR isn't a game about players anymore. It's a game of metrics and user hours spent doing what and all of that garbage that business people think will allow them to make a great game. I came back for a few months, ran some alts through the class stories and when my sub runs out I'll disappear until either the class stories will feel fresh again or WoW Classic comes out and I'll likely be gone for a long time. I was going to make a joke about the possibility of a SWTOR Classic, but the sad truth is that I don't think enough people would care.

I'm not usually a guild person but when I go back to WoW via WoW Classic, I feel it will be obligatory to make a guild called <Formerly-of-SWTOR> (or some more awesome name for ex-swtor subscribers/players as we will be if this game's production team does not fix up).

Finally,.. now that we all know that Anthem is a fail, the focus is back on SWTOR !

Some of us guessed the Anthem concept was not going to be appealing, however didn't they take most of the SWTOR staff away to make Anthem a great game? Since it's looking like they failed does anyone really think bringing them back will be a good thing? Does anyone think they will call it a day on Anthem and redirect resources back to SWTOR? I don't.

 

Since BW/EA are incapable of admitting when things have gone wrong, they will just keep pouring money into their new money pit (Anthem) and hope that SWTOR players stop feeding back about how un-enjoyable swtor has become. The only thing they listen to is the Cartel Market. When those of us who are big CM spenders leave for wow classic, they will notice a huge drop in revenue, but by then it will be too late (I'm already hooked by the news that wow classic is bringing back the Ahn'Qiraj event & I can't wait to run my most favourite of all dungeons original Zul Farak .

[Lhancelot]

I get a feeling as many others seem to that this thread is a joke to the folks at Bioware, something thrown out last thing on a Friday with every hope it will be buried by start of work Monday and every intention to ignore it.

 

Whether doubting the sincerity of this thread or not, I think it's more productive to cross bridges when we get there. No matter how doubtful I may be I'd rather not focus on how this probably isn't sincere and just hot air. I'd rather think to myself how things can improve and hope that this is Eric/BW's thought process too.

 

I wouldn't want BW to automatically think before they reach out to us that "these players on the forums do nothing but argue and spout negativity!" so in the same vein I want to personally try to give BW the same opportunity without prejudging them before they even have a chance to respond. No one knows what will happen until it does.

 

I understand many people are resentful and upset with a myriad of different issues pertaining to SWTOR. I just think it's not helpful reacting negatively when Eric did what we always complain he doesn't do, which is communicate with us.

 

I also don't see why it matters what day he wrote it on. The thread exists, and everything we write is here for him to read and respond to whether it's Friday or Monday. Would people have preferred he never even created the thread? I view it as a start to progress, whether or not it is time will tell.

[casirabit]

Whether doubting the sincerity of this thread or not, I think it's more productive to cross bridges when we get there. No matter how doubtful I may be I'd rather not focus on how this probably isn't sincere and just hot air. I'd rather think to myself how things can improve and hope that this is Eric/BW's thought process too.

 

I wouldn't want BW to automatically think before they reach out to us that "these players on the forums do nothing but argue and spout negativity!" so in the same vein I want to personally try to give BW the same opportunity without prejudging them before they even have a chance to respond. No one knows what will happen until it does.

 

I understand many people are resentful and upset with a myriad of different issues pertaining to SWTOR. I just think it's not helpful reacting negatively when Eric did what we always complain he doesn't do, which is communicate with us.

 

I also don't see why it matters what day he wrote it on. The thread exists, and everything we write is here for him to read and respond to whether it's Friday or Monday. Would people have preferred he never even created the thread? I view it as a start to progress, whether or not it is time will tell.

 

I used to feel that way but after all the years they have "claimed" they want to communicate better this time I don't believe it. As I said in my post they have to prove it. They have "cried wolf" too many times for me to take them at their word. Been here since launch and normally supported them, not this time. This time it is on them to prove it and until then I am not believing a word they wrote.

[Batwer]

We will be ignored anyway.

Before something new comes out, it will be published on the PTR server. There was always enough feedback, it was constantly ignored.

[Lhancelot]

I used to feel that way but after all the years they have "claimed" they want to communicate better this time I don't believe it. As I said in my post they have to prove it. They have "cried wolf" too many times for me to take them at their word. Been here since launch and normally supported them, not this time. This time it is on them to prove it and until then I am not believing a word they wrote.

 

I don't disagree with your sentiment I am just saying I don't think it benefits anyone or anything by trying to predict what will happen in a negative light before it happens.

 

I realize people view me as being fairly negative (I think I am just critical when applicable) but I try to keep my negative/critical thoughts on what is present reality not what bad things may happen.

 

I am critical when it comes to this new gearing system for instance, or how I can't gear my alts like I used to, but I don't bother spinning my wheels about how things might get worse in the future.

 

I just try to worry about things that are going on now not all the bad things that can or might happen is what I am trying to say lol. If I stressed about all the potential bad things I would be in a state of negative perpetuity!

[Zerileth]

I love how so many are writing books in this thread, and how so many aren't reading them, including the devs.

 

I rarely type anything anymore. Keep digg'in for that fool's gold. It is fun to watch the gullible.

 

NEXT BOOK.....

Edited February 24, 2019 by Zerileth