Why is "server community" used as an argument against cross-server LFD?

[Sorvinus]

I'm not sure why a lot of forum posters seem to think that it's important to foster a sense of "server community". What's up with that? I've played in MMO's a long time and it was never important in the least. I hope Bioware does a cross-server LFD tool. I get really tired of having to spam trade chat and then have to spend a lot of time traveling to the instance. The LFD would simply make it easier.

 

Spamming trade chat with "lfg/lfm for <instance name here> is just simply annoying. And even though I've done most of the instances this way, I don't have any more friends than I had before I started. So I never bought into the "fostering server community" as a valid argument against a cross-server LFD tool. To those of you that don't want it, you don't have to use it. But just because you don't want to use it doesn't mean that the rest of us shouldn't.

 

/end of rant

[qqemokitty]

I support the LFG tool within one server, but not cross server.

 

Not only do I already have like 10 awesome players I've met through pugging on my friends list, I actually totally on accident hooked up with a friend from SWG that I hadn't spoken to in like 5 years from ending up in the same pug. That is amaaaaaazing.

 

If you join trade groups and you act in them the same way you do in the cross server LFD pugs in WoW (aka everyone joins, no one speaks, everyone fights in silence, the end) then yea, you are not going to make friends. >.> You have to talk to people to make friends.

 

Make a note of people who are good and friend them. Make a note of the bads and help them out or pass the word on. Add ******s to your ignore list and warn your friends.

 

Developing a server community is about spending time with the same group of people from your server repeatedly. This doesn't happen when groups are randomized across servers and there is no lasting consequence (good or bad) to your performance or level of friendly communication.

 

Edit: I also feel I must point out again (beats dead horse) that no server forums are definitely as harmful to growing a community feeling on a server.

Edited December 29, 2011 by qqemokitty

[SlickDevlan]

There definitely needs to be a better method of finding groups, but cross server crap is not the answer.

[OSUNightfall]

Here was the problem. Blizzard implemented the dungeon finder, and it was good. It was fantastic and amazing. I loved it to death.

 

Then, to reduce queue times, Blizzard implemented cross-server dungeon finder. Suddenly, 90% of the people in PUGs realized that there was actually no reason at all they couldn't act like complete *****. The people they were playing with were almost certain to be from another server. No matter how bad their behavior, they couldn't be tracked down, or even get a /tell after the instance was over.

 

Normally, once everyone hits max level and starts to hang out and do instances and raids, you get to know those people. People develop reputations. If you're a terrible player, that reputation gets around, and before you know it you're not getting invited to raids anymore. I had a list of people taped next to my computer that I would auto-kick if I found them in my raid or group. Once cross-server was implemented, this sort of check on bad behavior went away, and you could tell the difference.

 

To sum, I loved dungeon finder, but cross-server killed it. It wasn't so much for me that cross-server killed community building, it was that it killed the ability of the community to police itself, since most people you grouped with need fear no repercussions from you.

[Grammarye]

For the same reason that posting on a forum nets you zero responsibility & accountability. Edited December 29, 2011 by Grammarye

[Dirtybomb]

I'm not sure why a lot of forum posters seem to think that it's important to foster a sense of "server community". What's up with that? I've played in MMO's a long time and it was never important in the least. I hope Bioware does a cross-server LFD tool. I get really tired of having to spam trade chat and then have to spend a lot of time traveling to the instance. The LFD would simply make it easier.

 

Yes, it would make it easier. But when you add cross-server to the mix, people are more apt to be their selfish d-bag selves when they know they are likely not to encounter the other group members again. I like the idea of a LFG tool, but would like to keep it same-server purely so people are more accountable for their actions. If you act like a jerk in a random group, you'll start to get a reputation that will follow you. Others on the server will know that you are a tool and refuse to let you run with them.

 

Call it a deterrent.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Dirtybomb

[acheros]

 

To sum, I loved dungeon finder, but cross-server killed it. It wasn't so much for me that cross-server killed community building, it was that it killed the ability of the community to police itself, since most people you grouped with need fear no repercussions from you.

 

everything you just said, happened long before cross realm dungeon finder.

 

people were ninjas, elitist, douche bags, and just plain scum since day 1 of classic. The wow community has ALWAYS been horrible, LFD just made queue times faster, so you got to see more people in a shorter amount of time, so you saw more of the douche baggery that was alraedy there.

[Lokai]

because is no community once you can grab a group from other servers. No no consequences for being a ninja, or being a ******* worse is no socialization you que up do your flashpoint and drop group with out so much as a word.... it destroys need to make friends and form a community on your server.

[Enginer]

I know less then 5 people on my server who are NOT in my guild.

 

So the whole "community" thing means very little to me.

[Skerry]

It is nice to see people who get it.

 

xserver LFD was just another method by which to remove accountability and protect the douchebags.

 

When you are limited to your server and unable to hide, you can still be a DB but will quickly learn it gets you nowhere. Anyone who played games prior to WOW knows that part of an MMO was building your reputation on the server; even if you didn't care about it - you didn't ruin it.

 

A SEVER centric LFD tool like the one in WoW wouldn't be horrible though.

[GeLopez]

Here was the problem. Blizzard implemented the dungeon finder, and it was good. It was fantastic and amazing. I loved it to death.

 

Then, to reduce queue times, Blizzard implemented cross-server dungeon finder.

 

Nope. The dungeon finder in WOW was always cross-server.

[Tebbo]

someone I know who plays wow just complained about this exact problem to me the other night. they were doing a pug raid and were with basically all different people.

 

after being screwed over during the raid they quit out. his specific problem with it was that there were no repercussion for those people who messed up the raid for everyone involved.

 

so i guess just simply put it makes griefing a whole lot easier. which can really make the game a lot less fun for anyone not in a serious guild.

 

same server lfg tool is a good idea though.

[Airinya]

everything you just said, happened long before cross realm dungeon finder.

 

people were ninjas, elitist, douche bags, and just plain scum since day 1 of classic. The wow community has ALWAYS been horrible, LFD just made queue times faster, so you got to see more people in a shorter amount of time, so you saw more of the douche baggery that was alraedy there.

 

Yep - and they would develop horrid reputations and nobody would group/play with them and they'd become the butt of jokes on the server. There is no reputation to value if you have cross-server LFD.

 

Just say no to a cross-server LFD!

[Ituhata]

everything you just said, happened long before cross realm dungeon finder.

 

people were ninjas, elitist, douche bags, and just plain scum since day 1 of classic. The wow community has ALWAYS been horrible, LFD just made queue times faster, so you got to see more people in a shorter amount of time, so you saw more of the douche baggery that was alraedy there.

 

There were, but they were usually policed well on a good community server. People got blacklisted and either had to make a new character or roll on another server, or hope to find people who didnt participate in the community and were unaware of their reputation.

 

You can not argue that the problem hasn't become a massive epidemic once it went cross server.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Ituhata

[GeLopez]

It is nice to see people who get it.

 

xserver LFD was just another method by which to remove accountability and protect the douchebags.

 

When you are limited to your server and unable to hide, you can still be a DB but will quickly learn it gets you nowhere. Anyone who played games prior to WOW knows that part of an MMO was building your reputation on the server; even if you didn't care about it - you didn't ruin it.

 

A SEVER centric LFD tool like the one in WoW wouldn't be horrible though.

 

I agree it wouldn't be horrible, but I would prefer something that requires a little more interaction. The LFG tool in-game right now is a good start, but they could make it more robust. It should be a separate window and allow players to pick what role they are.

[Orvish]

everything you just said, happened long before cross realm dungeon finder.

 

people were ninjas, elitist, douche bags, and just plain scum since day 1 of classic. The wow community has ALWAYS been horrible, LFD just made queue times faster, so you got to see more people in a shorter amount of time, so you saw more of the douche baggery that was alraedy there.

 

Except that in the days before cross-server LFD, when you had to run with people on your server, those people who were ******es or douchebags by ninjain'g loot, etc, would find themselves shunned by the server community.

 

When you had to run stuff on your own server, with people you knew, you made a name for yourself. I was one of the best tanks on my server back in BC, and I loved getting whispers from people asking me to tank things for them. I was a well-known face on the server, and I felt like I knew a lot of people on the server. And when people were *****, they were blacklisted by major guilds (though you can still do this. I've had a few people gquit where I've immediately contacted recruitment officers in other major guilds to get the person blocked), and eventually by the community as a whole, forcing them to name change or leave the server.

 

Cross-server LFD destroyed all of that. Now all anyone needs to do is push a button and wait. It doesn't matter if you're a good tank or a bad one, an ******e or a saint, you're never going to see these people again.

[geogenetic]

There definitely needs to be a better method of finding groups, but cross server crap is not the answer.

 

This. Keep it to the same servers. Just because OP doesn't ever find server communities doesn't mean that the rest of us don't. I prefer to get to know a core group of people on the server. It feels like you have hundreds of friends. Faces and names that you know you can count on. Trying to do that in a LFD tool just doesn't work especially when you cant play with that person again from another server.

[CogitoErgo]

Nope. The dungeon finder in WOW was always cross-server.

 

No, it wasn't.

[OSUNightfall]

everything you just said, happened long before cross realm dungeon finder.

 

people were ninjas, elitist, douche bags, and just plain scum since day 1 of classic. The wow community has ALWAYS been horrible, LFD just made queue times faster, so you got to see more people in a shorter amount of time, so you saw more of the douche baggery that was alraedy there.

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Yes, douchebaggery still happened in classic, but for me at least it was rare, even in PUGs. I also didn't notice it spiking significantly when dungeon finder launched, and I'm a tank, so keep in mind I had instant queues *before* cross-server. Once cross-server went live I could basically count on everyone in the pug acting like jerks. Thank god for you, MasterLoot.

[OSUNightfall]

Nope. The dungeon finder in WOW was always cross-server.

 

No, it totally wasn't buddy. The dpsers in my guild were ecstatic when it was announced it would be changed to allow cross-server, because before that their queue times were pretty bad. I remember it quite clearly.

[Appletaz]

Yes, people are jerks, but when they are on your server, they have to take responsibility for their behavior and they get the consequences of it.

 

Cross-server groups i have only experienced in Rift, where we had warzones and dungeon groups put together that way. People felt like they had a license to be rude and obnoxious to the point it was almost intolerable.

 

In fact, these are the reasons I don't want an LFG tool at all. You can make a group through the general chat, through your friend list, etc. You do not need a tool that matches you. It only encourages groups that are generally an unpleasant experience.... and why, when with a bit of effort, it is not necessary?

[Hallowzeve]

Some people log into MMO's and simply want their new gear. They don't come here for the story or to create a character of their own. They simply come here to get the newest shiniest pixels.

 

Anything that makes it quicker, simpler, and requires less interaction with others is what they want.

 

Eh, to each his own I guess.

[dirtyklingon]

Here was the problem. Blizzard implemented the dungeon finder, and it was good. It was fantastic and amazing. I loved it to death.

 

Then, to reduce queue times, Blizzard implemented cross-server dungeon finder. Suddenly, 90% of the people in PUGs realized that there was actually no reason at all they couldn't act like complete *****. The people they were playing with were almost certain to be from another server. No matter how bad their behavior, they couldn't be tracked down, or even get a /tell after the instance was over.

 

Normally, once everyone hits max level and starts to hang out and do instances and raids, you get to know those people. People develop reputations. If you're a terrible player, that reputation gets around, and before you know it you're not getting invited to raids anymore. I had a list of people taped next to my computer that I would auto-kick if I found them in my raid or group. Once cross-server was implemented, this sort of check on bad behavior went away, and you could tell the difference.

 

To sum, I loved dungeon finder, but cross-server killed it. It wasn't so much for me that cross-server killed community building, it was that it killed the ability of the community to police itself, since most people you grouped with need fear no repercussions from you.

 

people in wow and any other mmo were complete jerk offs long before cross server anything in wwow.

 

 

ther ewere ninjas and ******es an dpeople that cba to cc the moon or dps the skull, tanks that were geared up and specced for dps and rolled on every single plate adn mail and leather drop with phys stats, epopel who went afk without notice mid pull for 15 minutes knowing it woudl take longer to replace them than it would be to wait for them.

 

and people bad mouthed each other in general on the server for any reason they felt liek this week and tried to harass each other off servers for wpvp on pvp servers adn claim ownership of server forums and welcome zerg guild to eat up everyone who wanted to raid and kill the local guilds and so on,.

 

there was no magical uotpia of unicorns and rainbows pre cross server lfd or pre addons or pre dps meters or pre gs or pre anything.

 

mmo's/the internet/gaming/irl has always been like this for ever and ever sinc ebefore you and i were even born.

[qqemokitty]

I wish when these threads came up there was less focus on the negatives and more focus on the positives.

 

I mean I don't know about you guys, but a server community for me is far less about negative reputations and far more about GREAT reputations.

 

I'd love to have the "family feeling" of server communities in this game. Similar to what we had in SWG and in WoW as well (in the vanilla and tbc era). I want my server to be the bar where everyone knows my name and all that jazz.

[Kookus]

I've played in MMO's a long time and it was never important in the least.

 

Obviously only true for very small values of "long". Server community and, more importantly, your personal reputation in that community used to be a very big deal in MMOs and their MUD predecessors. That it has gone to the wayside in recent iterations of the genre has done more to damage legitimate social interaction than any single "feature", or lack thereof, in modern MMO history.