Estelindis Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 To be fair, on Mek-Sha if you bring Akaavi or Shae Viszla along they also get special dialogue, so there are one each Imperial, Republic and KOTFE companion who have extra lines. I mean, you can think of Shae as a KotFE companion if you like, and in at least one sense she is, but she's also historically aligned with the Empire. If you're going to put Hylo in the Republic category due to her breaking the blockade, you kinda have to put Shae in the Imperial category due to her helping to destroy the Jedi temple on Coruscant. I am salty because they seem to have forgotten Lana's romance entirely on the Imperial side, no matter how you play there's nothing. Since my own reasons for a bit of saltiness are so blatantly subjective, I would never tell you to feel anything other than what you do on this front. Plus, telling people to feel differently just doesn't work anyway. (I mean, it might make them feel different, strictly, but more of the front of annoyance at my presumption in saying such a silly thing!) So I absolutely empathize with your feelings and wish you got more of what you wanted! I would just add that many of us would be delighted for our favorites to get as much content as Lana got in this installment. And, while I appreciate that you wanted romance-specific content, and would (again!) never tell you not to want that, I must remark that I think the general content Lana got in this story was great. Much more her, much less quest-giver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I mean, you can think of Shae as a KotFE companion if you like, and in at least one sense she is, but she's also historically aligned with the Empire. If you're going to put Hylo in the Republic category due to her breaking the blockade, you kinda have to put Shae in the Imperial category due to her helping to destroy the Jedi temple on Coruscant. I was thinking more of where she showed up in the story when designating her as a neutral/KOFTE companion. Because both sides interact with her the same in SoR and KOTFE more or less, and she is recruitable by both, and she doesn't send any letters saying she's leaving whether you are Imperial or Republic. It's fair that Hylo has the same status as KOTFE/neutral, but she does come in as Theron's contact, which is why I put her as Republic, same as Aygo. I would just add that many of us would be delighted for our favorites to get as much content as Lana got in this installment. And, while I appreciate that you wanted romance-specific content, and would (again!) never tell you not to want that, I must remark that I think the general content Lana got in this story was great. Much more her, much less quest-giver. Understood. I did enjoy the interactions they had with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I think the general content Lana got in this story was great. Much more her, much less quest-giver. On this i agree. While the slightly selfish part of me wishes i could've had a bit more with Theron, especially on the romance side of things, i'm already really happy he was there and i could run around with him as my active companion most of the time. I also liked that Gault and Hylo were on Mek-sha and the the Mandalorian companions got a little something extra with Indigo. I also enjoyed the mention of Jorgan and Shae and her Mandalorians being there during the battle on Corelia. All this make the Alliance feels more lively to me. One minor complaint though, i'd really like if we could at least receive romance letters from our LIs when everything is done, especially when they're not involved at all in the plot. I liked the return of Tharan, Kira and Scourge too. I'd really like to be able to keep them all on all my characters And for once i was really able to appreciate my character's interactions with Lana. Nothing awkward or creepy, no seemingly default romance when not romancing her and i really liked seeing a more playful side of her personnality with how she interacted with Arn and Tau and her discussion with Gnost-Dural. That was nice and i hope it'll continue. There was only 1 slight oddity in french though as at the begining of Onderon my character was using the unformal "you" ("tu") with a non romanced Lana while still using the formal "you" ("vous") with a romanced Theron. A friend of mine who romances Lana was a bit annoyed too that at the begining they were using "tu" and then switched back to "vous" while being in a romance. I'd really like if in french the 3 of them (our character, Lana and Theron) coud use "tu" while talking to each other. As they're supposed to be pretty close to each other, that would not sound weird and would avoid these kind of oddities when romancing one of them. So now that i've done the story on a pub loyalist, i'll go play it with an imp saboteur to see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) While the slightly selfish part of me wishes i could've had a bit more with Theron, especially on the romance side of things, i'm already really happy he was there and i could run around with him as my active companion most of the time. I also liked that Gault and Hylo were on Mek-sha and the the Mandalorian companions got a little something extra with Indigo. I also enjoyed the mention of Jorgan and Shae and her Mandalorians being there during the battle on Corelia. All this make the Alliance feels more lively to me. One minor complaint though, i'd really like if we could at least receive romance letters from our LIs when everything is done, especially when they're not involved at all in the plot. I liked the return of Tharan, Kira and Scourge too. I'd really like to be able to keep them all on all my characters And for once i was really able to appreciate my character's interactions with Lana. Nothing awkward or creepy, no seemingly default romance when not romancing her and i really liked seeing a more playful side of her personnality with how she interacted with Arn and Tau and her discussion with Gnost-Dural. That was nice and i hope it'll continue. I agree with all of this. I feel like just being able to choose which companion we bring with us a lot of the time makes a big difference. Even if they don't usually have specific dialogue, it changes how I feel just knowing they are there. I'm grateful that we were only forced to bring particular companions with us at story-appropriate moments. It did seem like Theron was intended to be the default at certain times, as he was the companion automatically summoned - at least for my Republic characters - during the attack on Onderon. And that makes sense, given that he's canonically there (assuming he's still part of the Alliance, which I imagine he is for most players, especially Republic). But I swapped away from him to bring Felix on my consular and Jorgan on my trooper, and that was a nice experience in both cases. I will eventually bring a Theron-romancing character through the story, I've no doubt, and then he'll be at her side as often as possible. Agreed re the little references and cameos! Jorgan even getting a mention on Corellia was enough to make me smile. Yes, get on that sniper perch! And it was a really nice surprise for Mandalorian companions to have specific reactions to and from Indigo. I really like how they showed Lana in this story. She is at once someone we can argue is a true sith in the best sense, and simultaneously not a typical sith at all. She can be polite, respectful, yet playfully teasing and not subservient. And there is absolutely zero of the underlying assumption that she's somehow closer to an unromanced commander than she really is (at least, in all my playthroughs so far), which I deeply appreciate. I think my favorite moment with her was the little snippet of debate with Gnost-Dural. She stood up for her point of view in a well-reasoned way that plausibly made him think about what she said. Given that he's a renowned scholar and evidently a thoughtful person, so not easy to impress with a superficial argument, I thought it was a great way for Lana to show her own. Edited October 28, 2019 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RameiArashi Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 There was early on an achievement for getting Zenith back. Then it went away and Zenith is still MIA. I think Zenith was originally going to be either the terrorist you have to work with instead of Kaliyo or the one leading an unauthorized assault instead of Aric Jorgan. Maybe I'm alone but I want Zenith back and I don't understand why he isn't, The already have his voice actor (at least in English) since its Theron. I've been told in French two different actors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) I think Zenith was originally going to be either the terrorist you have to work with instead of Kaliyo or the one leading an unauthorized assault instead of Aric Jorgan. Maybe I'm alone but I want Zenith back and I don't understand why he isn't, The already have his voice actor (at least in English) since its Theron. I've been told in French two different actors. I heard there was a plan to make Zenith one of the Star Fortress companions, but that was changed. I don't know why... I mean, we could theorize that it had something to do with him not wanting to work with the Empire in any capacity, but there are other companions who hate the Empire who nonetheless joined the Alliance. A case could be made that Zenith is the companion who hates the Empire most, however. You're not alone in wanting Zenith back. I think the consular has been treated sub-optimally as regards companion returns and I hope when Zenith does return it's in a character-appropriate manner. Arguably, getting back into war with the Empire is the perfect time for him to come back. Edited October 28, 2019 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) I really like how they showed Lana in this story. She is at once someone we can argue is a true sith in the best sense, and simultaneously not a typical sith at all. She can be polite, respectful, yet playfully teasing and not subservient. And there is absolutely zero of the underlying assumption that she's somehow closer to an unromanced commander than she really is (at least, in all my playthroughs so far), which I deeply appreciate. I think my favorite moment with her was the little snippet of debate with Gnost-Dural. She stood up for her point of view in a well-reasoned way that plausibly made him think about what she said. Given that he's a renowned scholar and evidently a thoughtful person, so not easy to impress with a superficial argument, I thought it was a great way for Lana to show her own. Yup, i really liked that. I actually hope to see more of this in the future, and maybe more interactions between Lana and Theron too, now that they're pretty much back to being friends. There was early on an achievement for getting Zenith back. Then it went away and Zenith is still MIA. I think Zenith was originally going to be either the terrorist you have to work with instead of Kaliyo or the one leading an unauthorized assault instead of Aric Jorgan. Maybe I'm alone but I want Zenith back and I don't understand why he isn't, The already have his voice actor (at least in English) since its Theron. I've been told in French two different actors. Well, i'd have taken Zenith over Kaliyo if it had been a choice but as Estelindis said, now that we're back to Pub vs Imp, it's probably the best time to bring him back in hopefully a significant way. As for their french VA, Theron is voiced by Namakan Koné, while Zenith is voiced by Gilles Morvan (you can hear them talk with the links) Edited October 28, 2019 by Goreshaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Following another Imperial saboteur playthrough, I have a few more comments to add to the mix, this time about the potential for a saboteur who focuses on long-term results at the cost of short-term losses. It's probably a very atypical playthrough, so it may be of interest to people who don't want to experiment this much on their own characters. Are you ready for... the tale of Schrodinger's Saboteur?! My initial Imperial saboteur playthrough was an SIS-aligned agent (taking every saboteur option, except for the one where you can instead choose LS to protect the civilians of Corellia, as that non-sabo option actually helps the Republic more and is all-round nicer morally). Afterwards, I wondered if such a saboteur will be the most effective in the long term. Yes, she killed (or encouraged Malgus to kill) the dark councilors, so they could take the blame... and then blamed Tau for Corella (sorry Tau, lol)... but how long can she keep that up? I wondered if, in fact, the best long-term saboteur might be a character who goes along with the Empire's main objectives in this part of the story, to gain greater trust and thus be able to do more damage later. My SIS agent didn't get the option to join the Empire. I wondered if a different saboteur who fulfilled the Empire's objectives might be offered the chance to join the Empire, thus gaining deeper access that could be leveraged later. Well, now I have the answer to this question. I chose a character to whom I had no great attachments, a BH who I only rolled for the Mako romance (and sadly I didn't think it was a great romance, even though I still like Mako as a character). Since I now don't care much about this character one way or other, I don't mind if his story gets messed up spectacularly. I had this character jump from the end of his class story to Ossus (all the default Imperial choices were thus chosen, incl. Acina as Empress), then side with the Republic on Ossus in the minor saboteur role that the story allows. Then, however, I decided to play Onslaught as an Imperial saboteur, but one looking at the long game, in the hope of being offered Imperial affiliation at the end and thus gaining a more vital role from which to carry out future sabotage. I took the following options: Fulfil the Empire's three main objectives (destroy Onderon fleet; sabotage fuel on Mek-Sha, but not lethally; disable Meridian complex).Still make as much trouble for the dark councilors as possible. On Onderon, that's killing the king, saving the senator, and dissing Savik to Malgus (though frankly he doesn't take the bait and actually throws a little shade on the PC in a subsequent letter for criticizing Savik in spite of her scheme succeeding). On Mek-Sha, that's leaving evidence of my tampering at Junker Jott's (which I think disabled blowing up the fuel as an option) and executing Shaar and Vowrawn. Generally try to save Republic lives where otherwise possible, e.g. LS option to avoid bombing Corellian civilians. On arrival back at the Imperial Fleet, before walking into the dark council chamber, I received the usual poorly-timed holocall from Jonas. This time, naturally, he is less than happy... fairly annoyed, actually! My character then has the option to state that he did what he had to do to gain the Empire's trust (which Jonas doesn't agree with, thinking the cost was too high) or - and this is the interesting part! - an option labelled "End Saboteur Role Permanently." If I take that option, a warning box comes up making me confirm or cancel the choice, much like the romance warning boxes. Now here is the extremely interesting part. Acina's subsequent interactions with the PC are different depending on which option he takes in the holocall with Jonas. If the PC remains a saboteur, Acina does not offer the Alliance affiliation with the Empire or the special title for the PC. If the PC takes the option of ending the saboteur role permanently, Acina does offer affiliation with the Empire! And what's very very interesting is that the actual spoken dialogue for ending the saboteur role is extremely non-committal. My hunter just tells Jonas "I'll be glad to discuss it in person," without giving any clue that the thing he intends to say in person is "I quit." It could, to someone listening, be equally likely that the PC intends a deeper explanation of his intentions, with a view to planning further sabotage. So I do not think it can plausibly be said that Acina is listening in on the PC (in spite of how otherwise plausible it would be that everyone can hear his plotting with a Republic spy right at the door to the council chamber!). The Imperial affiliation being offered in one branch, but not the other, with Acina literally knowing nothing different, and the PC's actions as far as the Empire's concerned being exactly the same, is simply a method the writers are using to keep the branching under control. As a result, we have three possible affiliations (Republic, Alliance, Independent) and two possible loyalties (loyalist or saboteur). A PC officially affiliated with the Empire cannot (I think) be involved with the upcoming Republic plot to gather the Jedi back together. (It seems logical, anyway, but I esc'd out before getting to the Nar Shaddaa meeting with Jonas, as I do not actually want to end this character's saboteur role at this time.) Anyway, I'm sharing this because people have suggested that the Alliance not being offered affiliation with the PC's original faction in the case of a saboteur implies that the faction leader is onto the PC's subterfuge - and that the leader may have come to suspect the PC because of the PC's conspicuous failures during these missions. The results of my experiment imply that this is not the case, since outwardly this long-game saboteur's actions were the same as those of an Imperial loyalist, and he still wasn't offered Imperial affiliation (unless he made a comment in a "private" holocall that shouldn't have been decisive for Acina). I think the faction leader is, in fact, not onto us. The writers are just shunting us clearly onto one track or another, taking care not to let branching story get too crazy. TL;DR: Long-game sabotage does not offer deeper options via being trusted more, and the faction leader is not "onto" a saboteur even if they conspicuously fail at everything they're supposed to do. Edited May 5, 2020 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavantDreadtech Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 You can sabotage your original side, you just can't openly work for the opposite side. So my Agent for example was a double agent for the Republic since vanilla but has to keep working for the Empire in this new update but "undercover" for the Republic. This was not well executed so far IMO. I agree with this. As with everything some players will like and enjoy it others won't. I am a little disappointed by it but that's just my opinion. I have really enjoyed the new story on my Republic side as mine are all true to there faction. It's mainly my lightside Imperial characters I am struggling with in terms of story enjoyment. So saying "not well executed" I am on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I mightn't have done the best job of explaining my long-game saboteur in my previous post... or maybe what I wrote was just too long for anyone to read, lol... but xLetalis posted , if anyone's interested. Basically, it's a saboteur who doesn't take the sabotage options, and what results from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountiandewkills Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 I missed that option on Ossus. I have a LS wrath, and I sided with the empire, but I though I could sabotage the empire from within. And I didn't know how to go to sabotage . So now, my character is being called a LOyalist and had an option that say so in the little I did (havent finished it yet) in the new expansion. Is killing say the king on onderon (and the lady with him, and the king relatives) part of the sabotage (On Imp side) ? cose those choices confused me . Usually I don't have no problem figuring out the dialogues options... It's not really made clear. Throughout dialogue you learn that the dark council knows that they can manipulate the king, gaining control of onderon through a puppet leader where the leader of the resistance on the planet has ties to the pub. What I did was killed the king, essentially making the empire loose their hold on onderon and making it so that the resistance leader ( forget her name ) has really no opposition. If you kill both and the relatives it would kind of seem that it would open up a struggle for power. But who knows? No one not until the next expansion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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