Doc Is Coming Back <3 (This Is a Positive Thread)

[Sarova]

Agreed, it was amazing to actually get a full wedding scene and not just "let's get married" "okay!" *kiss and then blackout*. Especially that you get the droid reciting it all, it's just amazing and lovely to see! I had it recorded and still love to rewatch that scene sometimes

Doc/Knight wedding SPOILER ALERT:

For those who don't have it recorded I found a You Tube video of every possible response to the proposal and responses after the wedding. Those who don't want to see the heartbreak when she turns him down skip 2.20 to 3.03; the rest is good - some of the responses I've not used so hadn't see before. Watch it

.

[Lunafox]

Doc/Knight wedding SPOILER ALERT:

For those who don't have it recorded I found a You Tube video of every possible response to the proposal and responses after the wedding. Those who don't want to see the heartbreak when she turns him down skip 2.20 to 3.03; the rest is good - some of the responses I've not used so hadn't see before. Watch it

.

 

I liked the part where she says, "I suppose it's too late to back out now."

 

And he's like "Haha, not funny."

 

I hadn't had that one yet.

[bluehufsa]

it was amazing to actually get a full wedding scene and not just "let's get married" "okay!" *kiss and then blackout*.

 

I keep wondering why we did not got full wedding scenes with the other companions , i would have loved to see a Mandalorian wedding , for example.

[Sarova]

There have been no Doc threads so far (correct me if I am wrong), so I felt he deserved some love to!

There was one however it was before the Livestream confirmation and all the various spoilers that are out there, so it fizzled out. And Doc most certainly deserves the attention; he'd absolutely love that he has a love thread

[Eshvara]

I never really felt the things people felt towards Doc, such as finding him creepy. He's flirty, but not in a weird way, imo.

I quite liked him and his romance, actually.

Glad he's coming back!

[Estelindis]

I like Doc. He's quite different from most of the other romances so he's not to the taste of all my knights, but one has married him and is looking forward to getting him back. He's not a perfect person - he has plenty of ego in the equation - but he is caring, funny, and truly cares about helping people. Sure, he wants to look like a hero while he's doing it, but I don't think that's all there is. At a deeper level, beyond the superficiality of reputation, it does actually matter to him that people get medical care regardless of whether they can afford it.

 

Doc is from before Bioware standardized the structure of romance. Doc is the kind of romance they just won't write anymore, so we can no longer have a character arc like his either. Now the PC always has to initiate flirting and nothing romantic will happen if the PC doesn't act first. I'm sure this change is to the delight of some people. That's fine if they feel that way. If some people found it annoying or uncomfortable to be flirted with - and for the flirting to persist even after one no (I seem to remember it taking two refusals with Doc?) - then I appreciate how it would be a relief for them not to have to deal with that anymore. Particularly if players aren't straight, and/or aren't playing straight characters, the straight-only approach of the class romances, coupled with persistent flirting in a few cases, could be very annoying. Anyone who feels that way absolutely has the right to their feelings and I'm glad that they don't have to put up with the annoyance now.

 

But I will just say this... A part of me regrets that all romances have changed to be player-initiated. For me, it can be a nice feeling to have the other character reach out first. If every romance is written that way, it could become pretty awkward, especially in the KotFE arc where three romances are possible. It'd feel kinda like half our team is trying to put the moves on us at once - no thanks. But maybe the odd romance being companion-initiated would be nice. It gives more variety and makes the relationships feel more different.

 

I dunno. Sometimes it makes me sad that the non-class romance companions would never make the first move if the PC didn't. And sometimes it makes me glad, because my PCs are largely committed to the class romances and don't want 1) to have to turn down Lana/Theron/Koth/Arcann or 2) the weird situation of it feeling squiffy that Lana/Theron would flirt with the PC in spite of having already met and adventured with the PC's husband or wife.

 

If I'm perfectly honest, I suspect that the change to PC-initiated romance came as a result of adding same-sex romances to the game. It was "okay" to have queer players experience opposite-sex romances initiated by the companion, but for straight players to be on the receiving end of same-sex flirts that they didn't ask for is somehow beyond the pale. I expect that the large majority of players being straight led to an issue of "money talks," a.k.a. straight players might drop the game if they end up experiencing the same thing queer players have been putting up with for years. I don't know, of course, but I'd be surprised if the main reason turned out to be anything else. And I say this as a straight player myself. I guess I got the benefit of experiencing the companion-initiated straight romances without ever having to put up with the opposite. Though I honestly don't know that I'd mind if the boot ever was on the other foot. As long as the companion is okay with my character saying no, all is fine. And I guess that's the issue some people have with Doc. He's okay with a no... eventually. But he's persistent until the message gets through.

 

Maybe the change is for the best. To me it feels like something was lost, but perhaps it would seem very different if I was operating from another player's point of view.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Estelindis

[Eshvara]

I like Doc. He's quite different from most of the other romances so he's not to the taste of all my knights, but one has married him and is looking forward to getting him back. He's not a perfect person - he has plenty of ego in the equation - but he is caring, funny, and truly cares about helping people. Sure, he wants to look like a hero while he's doing it, but I don't think that's all there is. At a deeper level, beyond the superficiality of reputation, it does actually matter to him that people get medical care regardless of whether they can afford it.

 

Doc is from before Bioware standardized the structure of romance. Doc is the kind of romance they just won't write anymore, so we can no longer have a character arc like his either. Now the PC always has to initiate flirting and nothing romantic will happen if the PC doesn't act first. I'm sure this change is to the delight of some people. That's fine if they feel that way. If some people found it annoying or uncomfortable to be flirted with - and for the flirting to persist even after one no (I seem to remember it taking two refusals with Doc?) - then I appreciate how it would be a relief for them not to have to deal with that anymore. Particularly if players aren't straight, and/or aren't playing straight characters, the straight-only approach of the class romances, coupled with persistent flirting in a few cases, could be very annoying. Anyone who feels that way absolutely has the right to their feelings and I'm glad that they don't have to put up with the annoyance now.

 

But I will just say this... A part of me regrets that all romances have changed to be player-initiated. For me, it can be a nice feeling to have the other character reach out first. If every romance is written that way, it could become pretty awkward, especially in the KotFE arc where three romances are possible. It'd feel kinda like half our team is trying to put the moves on us at once - no thanks. But maybe the odd romance being companion-initiated would be nice. It gives more variety and makes the relationships feel more different.

 

I dunno. Sometimes it makes me sad that the non-class romance companions would never make the first move if the PC didn't. And sometimes it makes me glad, because my PCs are largely committed to the class romances and don't want 1) to have to turn down Lana/Theron/Koth/Arcann or 2) the weird situation of it feeling squiffy that Lana/Theron would flirt with the PC in spite of having already met and adventured with the PC's husband or wife.

 

If I'm perfectly honest, I suspect that the change to PC-initiated romance came as a result of adding same-sex romances to the game. It was "okay" to have queer players experience opposite-sex romances initiated by the companion, but for straight players to be on the receiving end of same-sex flirts that they didn't ask for is somehow beyond the pale. I expect that the large majority of players being straight led to an issue of "money talks," a.k.a. straight players might drop the game if they end up experiencing the same thing queer players have been putting up with for years. I don't know, of course, but I'd be surprised if the main reason turned out to be anything else. And I say this as a straight player myself. I guess I got the benefit of experiencing the companion-initiated straight romances without ever having to put up with the opposite. Though I honestly don't know that I'd mind if the boot ever was on the other foot. As long as the companion is okay with my character saying no, all is fine. And I guess that's the issue some people have with Doc. He's okay with a no... eventually. But he's persistent until the message gets through.

 

Maybe the change is for the best. To me it feels like something was lost, but perhaps it would seem very different if I was operating from another player's point of view.

 

Amen, sis! Completely agree.

[Sarova]

IAnd I guess that's the issue some people have with Doc. He's okay with a no... eventually. But he's persistent until the message gets through.

I have a Knight that has been levelled for a/the long awaited Scourge romance so I had to refuse Doc's advances during her interactions with him. I found Doc lost interest quite quickly based on the responses I gave him and was more like a friend. This is totally unlike Corso who is downright annoying when you have no interest in him. I guess that's the bane of being a female player and having only one male to romance per character in the original class stories unlike to two the male players got.

 

At a deeper level, beyond the superficiality of reputation, it does actually matter to him that people get medical care regardless of whether they can afford it.

Other than the actual marriage, something like this is what got my attention is. There is a bit on Balmorra when Doc wants to help the enemy (Imperial) soldiers that are injured - if you choose to help and kill the collicoids, you get to see Doc walking round the room visiting each of the enemy soldiers to treat them in a totally selfless way. I don't think you get anything like this with any other LI.

[Estelindis]

I have a Knight that has been levelled for a/the long awaited Scourge romance so I had to refuse Doc's advances during her interactions with him. I found Doc lost interest quite quickly based on the responses I gave him and was more like a friend.

This was my experience too (though I was keeping the knight for Theron, not Scourge; I must make another knight for Scourge!). In a situation where I was absolutely determined to shut Doc down, I remember him accepting it reasonably quickly. Not instantly, but he didn't persist for planets and planets! The one thing I would say is that I wish Bioware would've written some nicer rejections, along the lines of "let's just be friends." Some of the lines I had to say to shut him down were a bit mean.

There is a bit on Balmorra when Doc wants to help the enemy (Imperial) soldiers that are injured - if you choose to help and kill the collicoids, you get to see Doc walking round the room visiting each of the enemy soldiers to treat them in a totally selfless way. I don't think you get anything like this with any other LI.

Well the other male medic LI is Quinn, but Quinn doesn't behave like a doctor. Field medicine is just one of his many qualifications. And I think, unless we're saying it with a wink, his bedside manner could probably use some work. (Doctor Quinn, Medicine Man? Hardly! ) For the female medic LIs, Mako is a sweetie, but she's still all about the hunt. She fangirls over a war-based culture that, for all that I love my mando characters, I would despise in real life. Plus I think, in-character, healing isn't really her focus. She's more of a slicer. I'd say Elara is fairly selfless. She left her whole life behind as a matter of conscience. Still, I can't off the top of my head recall a tender moment of her looking after enemies like what you described with Doc. Maybe there is such a one and I just don't remember.

 

I do think some of the other LIs exhibit moments of beautiful ego-free selflessness. One that sticks in my mind is the way a soldier mutinies against Iresso on Hoth, literally pointing a gun in his face and accusing him of being a traitor. Iresso calmly disarms him, uses it as a teaching moment ("talk or shoot"), and prefers to give chores rather than a court martial. But I don't think he'd believe he did anything special. (I think he did. I imagine Jorgan would've reacted to that situation very differently - and I say this as a massive fan of Jorgan.) Still, Felix had a certain duty towards his subordinates that Doc didn't have towards those Imps. Doc just did it anyway. Doc probably thinks his duty is to everyone who needs help. (That is, if he thinks of it as duty. Duty might be too stuffy a word for him, I dunno!)

Edited November 11, 2018 by Estelindis

[ThePrebHunter]

The 2 time 1993-1994 back to back Blockbuster video game champion is back!

[Ylliarus]

I like Doc. He's quite different from most of the other romances so he's not to the taste of all my knights, but one has married him and is looking forward to getting him back. He's not a perfect person - he has plenty of ego in the equation - but he is caring, funny, and truly cares about helping people. Sure, he wants to look like a hero while he's doing it, but I don't think that's all there is. At a deeper level, beyond the superficiality of reputation, it does actually matter to him that people get medical care regardless of whether they can afford it.

 

Doc is from before Bioware standardized the structure of romance. Doc is the kind of romance they just won't write anymore, so we can no longer have a character arc like his either. Now the PC always has to initiate flirting and nothing romantic will happen if the PC doesn't act first. I'm sure this change is to the delight of some people. That's fine if they feel that way. If some people found it annoying or uncomfortable to be flirted with - and for the flirting to persist even after one no (I seem to remember it taking two refusals with Doc?) - then I appreciate how it would be a relief for them not to have to deal with that anymore. Particularly if players aren't straight, and/or aren't playing straight characters, the straight-only approach of the class romances, coupled with persistent flirting in a few cases, could be very annoying. Anyone who feels that way absolutely has the right to their feelings and I'm glad that they don't have to put up with the annoyance now.

 

But I will just say this... A part of me regrets that all romances have changed to be player-initiated. For me, it can be a nice feeling to have the other character reach out first. If every romance is written that way, it could become pretty awkward, especially in the KotFE arc where three romances are possible. It'd feel kinda like half our team is trying to put the moves on us at once - no thanks. But maybe the odd romance being companion-initiated would be nice. It gives more variety and makes the relationships feel more different.

 

I dunno. Sometimes it makes me sad that the non-class romance companions would never make the first move if the PC didn't. And sometimes it makes me glad, because my PCs are largely committed to the class romances and don't want 1) to have to turn down Lana/Theron/Koth/Arcann or 2) the weird situation of it feeling squiffy that Lana/Theron would flirt with the PC in spite of having already met and adventured with the PC's husband or wife.

 

If I'm perfectly honest, I suspect that the change to PC-initiated romance came as a result of adding same-sex romances to the game. It was "okay" to have queer players experience opposite-sex romances initiated by the companion, but for straight players to be on the receiving end of same-sex flirts that they didn't ask for is somehow beyond the pale. I expect that the large majority of players being straight led to an issue of "money talks," a.k.a. straight players might drop the game if they end up experiencing the same thing queer players have been putting up with for years. I don't know, of course, but I'd be surprised if the main reason turned out to be anything else. And I say this as a straight player myself. I guess I got the benefit of experiencing the companion-initiated straight romances without ever having to put up with the opposite. Though I honestly don't know that I'd mind if the boot ever was on the other foot. As long as the companion is okay with my character saying no, all is fine. And I guess that's the issue some people have with Doc. He's okay with a no... eventually. But he's persistent until the message gets through.

 

Maybe the change is for the best. To me it feels like something was lost, but perhaps it would seem very different if I was operating from another player's point of view.

 

I completely agree and feel the same way. It is why the Doc romance is one of my favourites too, it was nice to be flirted with instead to flirt with, as the focus on player-initiated romance has become somewhat dull and maybe even repetitive at this point. So amen to that indeed!

Edited November 12, 2018 by Ylliarus

[grania]

I completely agree and feel the same way. It is why the Doc romance is one of my favourites too, it was nice to be flirted with instead to flirt with, as the focus on player-initiated romance has become somewhat dull and maybe even repetitive at this point. So amen to that indeed!

 

Yeah that's an interesting point and I haven't thought about it in quite that way before. I just deleted a whole huge post of babbling, just me thinking out loud on the subject. Suffice it to say that very few of the romances in the game give you the feeling of being pursued.

 

Whether it's welcome or not is subjective, but I agree with the implication of "something being lost". I guess the thing that's lost is the variety, and uniqueness of companions. Doc will butter you up, Corso will never lose hope, Quinn will resist until he can't, etc.

 

Not sure I like the idea of nothing but samey same romances to look forward to, even if I didn't love all of them to begin with, hm.

Edited November 12, 2018 by grania

[Sarova]

Yeah that's an interesting point and I haven't thought about it in quite that way before. I just deleted a whole huge post of babbling, just me thinking out loud on the subject. Suffice it to say that very few of the romances in the game give you the feeling of being pursued.

 

Whether it's welcome or not is subjective, but I agree with the implication of "something being lost". I guess the thing that's lost is the variety, and uniqueness of companions. Doc will butter you up, Corso will never lose hope, Quinn will resist until he can't, etc.

 

Not sure I like the idea of nothing but samey same romances to look forward to, even if I didn't love all of them to begin with, hm.

This is why I like Ylliarus's idea of a new class. Having a new class story could allow them to add new LIs that don't conform to the new one-size-fits-all romances that have little depth & allow the new LI to pursue us or let us know their interest without us having to initiate the romance. The newer romances don't have that. Even Theron's romance is mostly reaction to the player character. I like that Doc is forward & your character can encourage him if you choose.

[Estelindis]

I just deleted a whole huge post of babbling, just me thinking out loud on the subject.

I would've been really interested in reading that! Maybe it would've been a bit off-topic, but I don't think straying a little is terrible as long as it relates to the main subject (which I think the topic of companion-initiated romance does, very much).

 

Whether it's welcome or not is subjective, but I agree with the implication of "something being lost". I guess the thing that's lost is the variety, and uniqueness of companions. Doc will butter you up, Corso will never lose hope, Quinn will resist until he can't, etc.

 

Not sure I like the idea of nothing but samey same romances to look forward to, even if I didn't love all of them to begin with, hm.

Maybe it's not all we have to look forward to. As I was writing my previous post, it occurred to me (but I didn't want to go too far off-topic) that the new romance that comes the closest to being companion-initiated is Arcann. It's true that it won't go anywhere if the player doesn't take the flirt. But I do think he comes on fairly strongly even before the chance to reciprocate appears. It's not exactly like Doc at all... If anything, Arcann's approach is almost the opposite of Doc. Doc flirts very obviously, with great outward confidence that of course the PC would be flattered. If the PC shows any reluctance, he's somewhat taken aback, which can lead to the character development of him having to rethink his approach (and in a successful romance he'll go from all-target skirt-chaser to a very happy one-woman man). By contrast, Arcann doesn't exhibit any confidence that the PC might reciprocate his feelings. He shows his gratefulness and devotion but is extremely taken aback (happily) if the PC takes the flirt option - whereas the PC flirting back seems to be exactly what Doc expects as the correct order of the universe.

 

I guess it depends in part on how one perceives each character. People who like to romance Lana might perceive her extreme devotion to the PC as companion-initiated romance. But no matter what, it seems fair to say that all the above cases are matters of subjective interpretation, whereas Doc leaves absolutely no room for confusion! Being pursued like that is something Bioware's probably leaving in the past. And I do miss it a bit.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Estelindis

[Nightblazer]

Hope I get to force push him off a cliff. If not s generic kill option wipp work

[IoNonSoEVero]

I like Doc. He's quite different from most of the other romances so he's not to the taste of all my knights, but one has married him and is looking forward to getting him back. He's not a perfect person - he has plenty of ego in the equation - but he is caring, funny, and truly cares about helping people. Sure, he wants to look like a hero while he's doing it, but I don't think that's all there is. At a deeper level, beyond the superficiality of reputation, it does actually matter to him that people get medical care regardless of whether they can afford it.

 

Doc is from before Bioware standardized the structure of romance. Doc is the kind of romance they just won't write anymore, so we can no longer have a character arc like his either. Now the PC always has to initiate flirting and nothing romantic will happen if the PC doesn't act first. I'm sure this change is to the delight of some people. That's fine if they feel that way. If some people found it annoying or uncomfortable to be flirted with - and for the flirting to persist even after one no (I seem to remember it taking two refusals with Doc?) - then I appreciate how it would be a relief for them not to have to deal with that anymore. Particularly if players aren't straight, and/or aren't playing straight characters, the straight-only approach of the class romances, coupled with persistent flirting in a few cases, could be very annoying. Anyone who feels that way absolutely has the right to their feelings and I'm glad that they don't have to put up with the annoyance now.

 

But I will just say this... A part of me regrets that all romances have changed to be player-initiated. For me, it can be a nice feeling to have the other character reach out first. If every romance is written that way, it could become pretty awkward, especially in the KotFE arc where three romances are possible. It'd feel kinda like half our team is trying to put the moves on us at once - no thanks. But maybe the odd romance being companion-initiated would be nice. It gives more variety and makes the relationships feel more different.

 

I dunno. Sometimes it makes me sad that the non-class romance companions would never make the first move if the PC didn't. And sometimes it makes me glad, because my PCs are largely committed to the class romances and don't want 1) to have to turn down Lana/Theron/Koth/Arcann or 2) the weird situation of it feeling squiffy that Lana/Theron would flirt with the PC in spite of having already met and adventured with the PC's husband or wife.

 

If I'm perfectly honest, I suspect that the change to PC-initiated romance came as a result of adding same-sex romances to the game. It was "okay" to have queer players experience opposite-sex romances initiated by the companion, but for straight players to be on the receiving end of same-sex flirts that they didn't ask for is somehow beyond the pale. I expect that the large majority of players being straight led to an issue of "money talks," a.k.a. straight players might drop the game if they end up experiencing the same thing queer players have been putting up with for years. I don't know, of course, but I'd be surprised if the main reason turned out to be anything else. And I say this as a straight player myself. I guess I got the benefit of experiencing the companion-initiated straight romances without ever having to put up with the opposite. Though I honestly don't know that I'd mind if the boot ever was on the other foot. As long as the companion is okay with my character saying no, all is fine. And I guess that's the issue some people have with Doc. He's okay with a no... eventually. But he's persistent until the message gets through.

 

Maybe the change is for the best. To me it feels like something was lost, but perhaps it would seem very different if I was operating from another player's point of view.

 

I was going to stay out of this thread out of respect for Doc's fans (I am not one), but I wanted to say that I think this is very well stated.

 

IMHO this all rings true. The characters who persist when the PC has said no are uncomfortable IMHO, just as it would be in real life if someone were pursuing you and you said no to them. IMHO unless a 'no' is followed by a 'oh, okay, I won't bother you again,' I don't like the NPCs to pursue my character. At some point for me that starts to feel like harassment and really unsafe and uncomfortable.

 

There's also the issue in the class story that you often only have the choice to either flirt with an opposite-sex LI or be very rude to them, as though there's no way to be civil without starting something. That seems to be something they've worked on (ie, you can be nice to Theron or Koth without wanting to flirt).

 

I think Damarus in the smuggler story is a good example as to how it could work with a companion pursuing the PC. He clearly shows an interest in a female smuggler, but if you say no, and deflect the flirts to a more friendly relationship, he rolls with it. So I wouldn't mind seeing more of that.

[Estelindis]

I was going to stay out of this thread out of respect for Doc's fans (I am not one), but I wanted to say that I think this is very well stated.

 

IMHO this all rings true. The characters who persist when the PC has said no are uncomfortable IMHO, just as it would be in real life if someone were pursuing you and you said no to them. IMHO unless a 'no' is followed by a 'oh, okay, I won't bother you again,' I don't like the NPCs to pursue my character. At some point for me that starts to feel like harassment and really unsafe and uncomfortable.

 

There's also the issue in the class story that you often only have the choice to either flirt with an opposite-sex LI or be very rude to them, as though there's no way to be civil without starting something. That seems to be something they've worked on (ie, you can be nice to Theron or Koth without wanting to flirt).

 

I think Damarus in the smuggler story is a good example as to how it could work with a companion pursuing the PC. He clearly shows an interest in a female smuggler, but if you say no, and deflect the flirts to a more friendly relationship, he rolls with it. So I wouldn't mind seeing more of that.

Thanks, I appreciate you chiming in with your experience. You were actually the person I was thinking of most when I tried putting myself in the shoes of someone who didn't enjoy Doc's type of flirting. I'm sure you didn't want to have a bad time or feel uncomfortable (who does?). That begs the question: how can we have some companion-initiated romances that don't give some players an unpleasant experience? It's safe to assume (well, I don't have to assume in your case, since you say it) that if it's not unpleasant, those who don't actively love it won't mind if it's there for those who do. Darmas Polleran is a great example, especially given what we eventually learn about the character. It makes particular sense that he'd go with whatever makes the PC feel most comfortable.

 

I do wonder sometimes, when I see people's various responses to various characters, including Doc, what the most "important" consideration is for a writer: successfully portraying the qualities you want a character to have, or not including elements people consider problematic. From my point of view, sometimes the inclusion of problematic elements is part of the point actually trying to be conveyed in writing certain characters and situations. The fact that some things considered problematic are included doesn't mean they're necessarily being portrayed as good and worthy. Broadly speaking, I don't think most characters are meant to be perfect people. That allows for character development, for various qualities in our protagonists to be overcome and for our antagonists to be defeated.

 

I think, with Doc, part of the issue is that he undergoes a lot more character development as part of the romance than he does otherwise. Now, maybe that's a feature rather than a bug. With a romance, one can argue, we delve deeper into a character, see a more intimate side of them. Of course there should be more character development. I've seen you comment, for instance, that sides of Lana appear in the romance that we wouldn't see if we don't romance her. Maybe all that is fine. But maybe there could be other approaches. I don't know if there should be an opportunity to really say in-character to Doc "your flirting makes me uncomfortable" and for that to actually change him, since it's probably not the first time in-universe that someone's said that to him. But I do wonder what kind of deeper character development might be written for him and the Knight in a non-romantic context. Sometimes friendships can change us far more than romances and at times I wonder how parallel friendship tracks would work for romanceable companions (not that romanced companions aren't also our PCs' friends).

[IoNonSoEVero]

Thanks, I appreciate you chiming in with your experience. You were actually the person I was thinking of most when I tried putting myself in the shoes of someone who didn't enjoy Doc's type of flirting. I'm sure you didn't want to have a bad time or feel uncomfortable (who does?). That begs the question: how can we have some companion-initiated romances that don't give some players an unpleasant experience? It's safe to assume (well, I don't have to assume in your case, since you say it) that if it's not unpleasant, those who don't actively love it won't mind if it's there for those who do. Darmas Polleran is a great example, especially given what we eventually learn about the character. It makes particular sense that he'd go with whatever makes the PC feel most comfortable.

 

Thank you! Yeah, the interactions with Doc actually became so upsetting to me that I stopped playing my JK for a while, and I will never make another one because I can't deal with him again. I felt like my character was being harassed, and in a game I play for fun, I didn't want that experience.

 

I feel like if my Knight actually had been given the agency to say even a simple, "Look, back off, or you're not working with me anymore," I would have felt better about it. But there they were, one of the most powerful Force users in the galaxy, and they couldn't even stop the person on their ship from making comments they didn't want.

 

But yeah, a character expressing interest and taking a 'no' respectfully doesn't bother me. In the Inquisitor story for instance there's Urtel, who is fascinated with the Inquisitor. That's one of the few opposite-gender one night stands I always take, because he's respectful and even though he likes the SI, he's not pushy about it.

 

I do wonder sometimes, when I see people's various responses to various characters, including Doc, what the most "important" consideration is for a writer: successfully portraying the qualities you want a character to have, or not including elements people consider problematic. From my point of view, sometimes the inclusion of problematic elements is part of the point actually trying to be conveyed in writing certain characters and situations. The fact that some things considered problematic are included doesn't mean they're necessarily being portrayed as good and worthy. Broadly speaking, I don't think most characters are meant to be perfect people. That allows for character development, for various qualities in our protagonists to be overcome and for our antagonists to be defeated.

 

I agree with this. It's boring when a character is perfect, and all of them - Lana, Theron, Doc, anyone - have flaws, and all of them change as the story goes along. That makes them human, and it's a fair point that in interactions with companions it gets boring when they smile and nod and always behave exactly as you want them to. I think the trick comes with giving the PC agency to deal with it or at least address it.

 

I think, with Doc, part of the issue is that he undergoes a lot more character development as part of the romance than he does otherwise. Now, maybe that's a feature rather than a bug. With a romance, one can argue, we delve deeper into a character, see a more intimate side of them. Of course there should be more character development. I've seen you comment, for instance, that sides of Lana appear in the romance that we wouldn't see if we don't romance her. Maybe all that is fine. But maybe there could be other approaches. I don't know if there should be an opportunity to really say in-character to Doc "your flirting makes me uncomfortable" and for that to actually change him, since it's probably not the first time in-universe that someone's said that to him. But I do wonder what kind of deeper character development might be written for him and the Knight in a non-romantic context. Sometimes friendships can change us far more than romances and at times I wonder how parallel friendship tracks would work for romanceable companions (not that romanced companions aren't also our PCs' friends).

 

I wish the bolded is something they would explore. With Lana and Theron, you can become their buddies even if you don't romance them. But if you do romance them, yes, you see sides of them that aren't apparent otherwise, and a lot more vulnerability. From what people are writing here, Doc does change for the better if he's romanced but that is something a non-romancing female JK never gets to see, and that's a shame.

 

Some of the platonic friendship arcs among the companions are some of the game's best moments, IMHO, and it's too bad they didn't open those parallel friendship routes for opposite-gender PCs who weren't interested in more. IIn the BH story for instance I always feel so bad about turning Torian down, since the convo wheels require a lot of rudeness to avoid a romance with him. I would have loved to hang out with him as a friend, but the game doesn't allow it. But the only one I can think of like that is Andronikos, who seems to become a very cool pal of the SI regardless of what she chooses. The scene where he takes you out to see the stars is in the game even if you don't romance him, and I love that.

[Ylliarus]

Hope I get to force push him off a cliff. If not s generic kill option wipp work

 

I sincerely hope that will not happen. Because that would ruin the companion's future prospects in appearing in the game's story.

 

Look I get it, I don't like all companions either. DS Jaesa for example is thoroughly annoying, but wanting a kill option for her really is overkill. Because a kill option means the character is dead to everyone, we all saw what happened with Koth and the other comps that got a kill option.

 

While having a kill option is fun for you it ruins the entire romance we were invested in for us. So please, let's keep kill options to situations where it's logical and sensible and let's not root for kill options just because we don't like companion A or B. You don't see me rooting for a DS Jaesa kill option either

[casirabit]

Hope I get to force push him off a cliff. If not s generic kill option wipp work

 

Hope not. We have had too many LI killed and frankly I am tired of them killing off LI. I get it not everyone likes certain companions but every time they kill a LI then the ones that either romanced them or have them as friends also loses them and that is not fair. Enough is enough.

 

I am not a fan of Jaesa, Lana but I don't want them to be killed because I know that would take them away from other people's story and that I would not want.

Edited November 13, 2018 by casirabit

[Sarova]

Hope not. We have had too many LI killed and frankly I am tired of them killing off LI. I get it not everyone likes certain companions but every time they kill a LI then the ones that either romanced them or have them as friends also loses them and that is not fair. Enough is enough.

 

I am not a fan of Jaesa, Lana but I don't want them to be killed because I know that would take them away from other people's story and that I would not want.

Killed off love interests:

• Aric Jorgan
  
• Kaliyo Djannis
  
• Malavai Quinn
  
• Vette
  
• Torian Cadera
  
• Koth
  
• Arcann
  
• Theron (though he may live)
  

 

I don't have a problem with the Devs giving people kill options because they don't form part of my story for the most part & I have no need to see/watch most of them (one of the above always meets death for me though). I do have a problem with killing off just for the hell of it or because the devs don't like a character. Having a kill option should be no excuse for the devs to remove a companion from the story in 6.0 though. There were times in kotfe/kotet when a love interest who others had chosen death for was still in the story and was given a small scene (Aric comes to mind - he can be killed at the end of Chapter 13 (Profit and Plunder) however as your LI you get a goodbye scene in chapter 16 Battle for Odessen). There is no reason whatsoever to kill Doc or have him die in the story line. He has always been loyal to the cause during the class story and suddenly making him not wouldn't fit who he is.

POSSIBLE BIG FAT SPOILER (but also might not be)

 

After the disappointing, annoying & shocking storylines for previous LIs I now search for the spoilers so I can decide whether to bother or not. From what I have seen and if it stays we have nothing to worry about with Doc Plus Doc is dev favourite; I don't think they would add him to the list of dead-to-all LIs

 

[Sorens]

Also glad he is coming back, I am one of those "Kira guys" but yea, he is quite the proper bro Honestly I am glad for just about any companion to come back. I just really hope the whole patch is a good chunk of content and not just an hour of gameplay with 3 minute sfor each companion. I love swtor but if you took the companions away for some reason, they need to come back in proper fashion, especially this late into the game

 

But yea, welcome back doc, lets drink up and talk about booties.

[Lunafox]

Thank you! Yeah, the interactions with Doc actually became so upsetting to me that I stopped playing my JK for a while, and I will never make another one because I can't deal with him again. I felt like my character was being harassed, and in a game I play for fun, I didn't want that experience.

 

 

I get how that is totally, how upsetting it is to feel harassed by a companion I don't like when Lana stalks my bedroom and watches me sleep, which is super creepy considering I've never romanced her on my main Outlanders. Problem is, she does that to ALL the classes, so it doesn't matter which I play, there she is hovering over my bed...and again later when my character has been injured there she is hovering over my infirmary bed. She's doing her paperwork in my bedroom. Seriously Lana, get out! I think if they're going to make people hover over your bed, they should be a romance companion that you chose, not who the devs want, because for me it makes as much sense to have Lana stalking my bedroom and watching me sleep ala Edward Cullen, than it does for you to have to endure Doc.

 

With the creepy ones, space bar is your friend I guess. Or letting them stand untouched with the chat sign over their heads.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Lunafox

[IoNonSoEVero]

I get how that is totally, how upsetting it is to feel harassed by a companion I don't like when Lana stalks my bedroom and watches me sleep, which is super creepy considering I've never romanced her on my main Outlanders. Problem is, she does that to ALL the classes, so it doesn't matter which I play, there she is hovering over my bed...and again later when my character has been injured there she is hovering over my infirmary bed. She's doing her paperwork in my bedroom. Seriously Lana, get out! I think if they're going to make people hover over your bed, they should be a romance companion that you chose, not who the devs want, because for me it makes as much sense to have Lana stalking my bedroom and watching me sleep ala Edward Cullen, than it does for you to have to endure Doc.

 

With the creepy ones, space bar is your friend I guess. Or letting them stand untouched with the chat sign over their heads.

 

Ah yes, you had to make it about Lana. Sitting in a corner of the room studying a holocron or trying to see that you're not dead in the sick bay is way different than actively hitting on someone and ignoring their wishes over and over again that they don't want to be hit on, but sure.

 

If Lana sitting at a desk actively triggered you the way Doc's constant harassment did for me, to the point where you cried when you had to talk to him and didn't play Balmorra for weeks because you didn't want to run with him, I'm truly sorry. But if not, no, you don't understand. We all know you hate Lana and like to take digs at me as often as you can, but with this one, I'm going to ask nicely...please don't go there.

Edited November 13, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Lunafox]

Ah yes, you had to make it about Lana. Sitting in a corner of the room studying a holocron or trying to see that you're not dead in the sick bay is way different than actively hitting on someone and ignoring their wishes over and over again that they don't want to be hit on, but sure.

 

If Lana sitting at a desk actively triggered you the way Doc's constant harassment did for me, to the point where you cried when you had to talk to him and didn't play Balmorra for weeks because you didn't want to run with him, I'm truly sorry. But if not, no, you don't understand. We all know you hate Lana and like to take digs at me as often as you can, but with this one, I'm going to ask nicely...please don't go there.

 

 

And you had to make it about you, which it's not. There is nothing in my post that isn't true. I'm uncomfortable with Lana lingering in my bedroom, while I'm sleeping and hovering over my unconscious body; I have just as much right to be uncomfortable with someone stalking me in my personal space than getting a crappy come-on line. Why is she in my room at all? There is an entire base for her to do her paper work. There are other characters who care about mine, why aren't they allowed to hover? What is the purpose of her watching me sleep in my character's bedroom?

 

See, that's the thing, I don't hate Lana, I'm just sick of her always being in the place where it would make sense for my choice of romance to be. I'm not taking 'a dig' at anyone. I'm just sharing my feelings and last I checked, I can still do that and when the need arises for me to make a point, I will, because this is about how I feel about elements of the game and it's no less valid than yours.

 

Now, it appears this is a POSITIVE thread about DOC and nothing to do with Lana, so, I will respect the OP.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Lunafox