Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

[mikroh]

Since it has come up a few times I made a video of the consular and inquisitors knockback. There did turn out to be a slight difference of about 0.167s (about 1/6 of a second).

 

With such a small amount of time I really can't rule out other reasons(latency, instance vs. open world, etc) for the delay. This one is close enough that it doesn't really matter in the end, though BW really needs to get their stuff together and make every mirror ability act the exact same with just an animation difference.

 

Video Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEflabbJr4s

 

 

I'm not sure if you missed it earlier, but I uploaded proof for the Revivification/Salvation bug if could could add it to the OP. Thanks =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfVIwIKF0zw

 

I'll get around to the other ones eventually when I stop being so lazy!

Edited January 24, 2012 by mikroh

[Jarfunkz]

It's actually the opposite. At least for gunslinger/sniper. Not sure about scoundrel/operative.

 

No, pistols has 8-9% more damage than rifles.

[Obi-Rev]

Great job OP, sadly though I do not believe you will get a reply from the devs on this.

 

Wanted to ask one thing, I play a sentinel, other abilities i've noticed that animation is bugged for is

 

-Masters Strike (stuck in animation, ability doesn't actually fire...if you try to press master strike again, animation resets..all you can do is just dance around until animation is over.)

 

-Slash (looking like a rave dancer spinning a glow stick 2 or 3 times before your actually hit your target)

 

-Blade Rush ( takes a number of key stroke to actually fire...looks like your guy is doing the pump it up dance over..and over...and over)

 

-Force sweep ( a number of times I have pressed this ability and he just throws his light sabers back and crouches...then stands up...then goes back through the animation to have it actually fire)

 

-Piercing strike (same thing as blade rush)

 

Anyone play a Sith Mar. that can compare?

[KaelShien]

Great job OP, sadly though I do not believe you will get a reply from the devs on this.

 

Wanted to ask one thing, I play a sentinel, other abilities i've noticed that animation is bugged for is

 

-Masters Strike (stuck in animation, ability doesn't actually fire...if you try to press master strike again, animation resets..all you can do is just dance around until animation is over.)

 

-Slash (looking like a rave dancer spinning a glow stick 2 or 3 times before your actually hit your target)

 

-Blade Rush ( takes a number of key stroke to actually fire...looks like your guy is doing the pump it up dance over..and over...and over)

 

-Force sweep ( a number of times I have pressed this ability and he just throws his light sabers back and crouches...then stands up...then goes back through the animation to have it actually fire)

 

-Piercing strike (same thing as blade rush)

 

Anyone play a Sith Mar. that can compare?

 

I don't have a video to prove it, but I've played both JK and SW, and Marauders have none of these delays.

[Gralb]

Thought i'd test your claims regarding my class, the trooper. So i roll a BH and a few hours later im using Death from Above and Unload. They really are better! ***!!??!!??!!

 

More ammo as well, or heat its called, but its still more ammo than my trooper gets. everything you said about the Trooper/BH imbalance is 100% true

 

Now im sceptical about conspiracy theories, but given the sheer amount of confirmations that all the points raised being true... It really does make you wonder, either favouritism, or Bioware are sadly just being a bit rubbish.

 

I agree with the OP when he says its a big issue. The classes are meant to be mirrors. They are not. I did not really want to do the 'I cancelled my sub' thing on the forums... but yes, yes I did.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Gralb

[The_Orphan]

Thank you for this post.

 

PVP is one of the aspects I enjoy in my MMO's, and as a primarily Republic player this sort of imbalance annoys me.

 

While on one hand it makes the victories Republic side gets all the sweeter (Since we're playing with Handicaps) I'd rather just have the class mirrors be balanced toward one another.

[Izariel]

Keep this up. These disparities really do make a difference in pvp. We cant allow this to be buried.

 

We demand a response to this.

[HanSollo]

Someone just reminded me that bioware was talking about adding more WZ for same faction.

 

Is it just me or is that pretty much admitting that they realize sith is dominant, and they are just going to leave it that way.

 

This seems like a band aid fix to population imbalance instead of just actually trying to fix it, or entice people to play republic with some sort of feature.

 

Well there is one thing check the Emp PvP fourms im sure they area teaming with " TOOOOOOOOO MUCH HUTT BALL *** BW" their response to them has obviously been immediate response.

[Discombob]

You bipolar or something? How many ways would you like me say it?

 

No developer is going to purposefully gimp a faction or a significant portion of their player base, thats just ignorant paranoia. Money drives development and being biased against your player base is bad for business.

 

But I am sure you don't care about anything but your own scathing wit as demonstrated by your lovely poop humor. Little things like logic and reality must bow down before your certainty that the developers are willfully shooting themselves in the foot and the wallet just to screw you over.

 

Good luck in all your endeavors man, you are going to need it.

 

Money based indeed, if you didnt notice Empire out numbers Republic. More money from Empire, happy Empire money stays in.

[Kellindell]

Pistols do more damage than rifles. Advantage Powertech

 

Heavy weapons do more damage than pistols. Advantage Commando

 

Pistols do more damage than rifles. Advantage Smuggler

 

Please bioware, fix these things that have been pointed out many times in BETA. You need to SQUASH bugs, they ruin games. This isn't for our sake, it is for your companies best interest. We will find a game where devs will listen and fix bugs.

 

Can you show some evidence/math for this? It just appears to be a blanket statement that I dont quite understand.

[Kellindell]

I have something else too, Maybe it was posted before but, the knight ability "Awe" makes the oponents crouch while they are mezzed, the warrior "mirror" for Awe, makes oponents lie on the ground, so it's like ur knocked back and mezzed, when u get out of it you have to stand up, making it another advantage to the empire. This and the difference between freezing force and chilling scream really pissed the hell out of me. And those videos you posted, man thanks for this really. I already subbed to star wars for another month, if they don't fix these crappy issues soon it's bb starwars as soon as I'm done with the main stories.

 

I need to see this in video form, preferably from the perspective of someone it happened too so we can prove that they guy actually has to spend more time getting up. Maybe a sentinel and a maurader could go somewhere and duel or something.

[Kellindell]

This is a great post OP. It is true to the point and in fact need to be kept at the top of the page. I play both Empire and Republic run guilds on both sides. I never lose players on the Empire side, but I lose players everyday on the republic. I see these differences everyday in the Warzones and it can be frustrating. I have faith the Devs will fix it. It is very early in the game and they have been doing lots of patches and hotfixes. One thing I noticed is that everyone who thinks both sides are the same are playing on Imperial characters. That says a lot.

 

Thank you. I wish I had your faith.

 

I give any game 3 months, if I dont see some hope in three months Ill be gone. I might come back some day when someone regails me with tails of how awesome the game has become, but if I dont see some glimmer of hope in three months im going to chalk up that ridiculous collectors edition to a loss and go back to WoW (sadly) until GW2 comes out.

[Kellindell]

The back blast issue is in the OP.

 

As far as your huttball comment goes...well sadly they have already said they will be releasing more same faction warzones. So that kind of answers your question in a round about way.

 

Even beyond the Illum fiasco it was that statement that worried me the most. To me it represented the devs completely giving up on Republic, and any desire they had for faction balance if they ever had any was simply gone.

 

The one thing that leveled out WoW was long queu times for horde. Without that being an issue, I dont see a reason to play republic if you care about PvP at all.

 

Wow, I need to read the forums more.

 

I was wondering how the ops can stun me while running by me while I have to freeze on the spot to kick someone on the n*ts, becoming an instant target for everyone else around too.

 

These need to be addressed, unless BW wants all remaining Republican players to reroll empire and play huttball forever.

 

I also want to add how different the animation for back blast is. It takes a second for the anim to kick in and in PvP a second is an eternity. Why did they have to make the toon draw the shotgun from its back, aim and fire is beyond me, when our mirror can dance around you and insta cast (anim wise) knife skills to his heart desire.

 

All I hear when I get jumped by an ops is knife sounds and skills so fast I can barely see which one he used.

[Kellindell]

Now that I think about it, a backblast video comparison might not hurt anyone.

[Shainingu]

So you have stated that they are not mirrors, and then you have pointed out that the smugs ability is on a longer cd......then you go on to say how the diff in CD makes up for the abilities. Are you just looking for stuff to cry about?

 

Most PvPers would take a shorter CD anyday for a move that does a similar effect.

 

True mirrors would homogenize the game. I like the diversity and I hope they keep it.

 

Edit: While true mirrors would make balancing the game far less complicated, I dont want to be a IA/Smuggler...i just want to be an IA.

 

Of course you do, why wouldn't you? They have the advantage.

 

<-- Sage. Also, I've noticed the project bug where it just hovers after the target stealths, but I always assumed the damage still hit but doesn't break stealth. Obivously I can't provide any proff to this because, o hey, no combat log

[DarthTolis]

The back blast issue is in the OP.

 

As far as your huttball comment goes...well sadly they have already said they will be releasing more same faction warzones. So that kind of answers your question in a round about way.

 

Even beyond the Illum fiasco it was that statement that worried me the most. To me it represented the devs completely giving up on Republic, and any desire they had for faction balance if they ever had any was simply gone.

 

The one thing that leveled out WoW was long queu times for horde. Without that being an issue, I dont see a reason to play republic if you care about PvP at all.

 

Wait you are saying their solution to this imbalance is more same faction warzones instead of fixing this? Source? Have they even acknowledged that this is an issue or are they still ignoring this?

 

I will try to make a video although I am no expert, maybe fraps or something like that?

[Ktzero]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2110035#edit2110035

 

As you guys have noticed (and probably read in the patch notes), one major part of our series of ability delay improvements was patched onto the live servers with the maintenance last night (patch 1.1.0b). We decided that the improvements seen with this fix were significant enough for us to roll this patch out as quickly as possible instead of waiting for the next scheduled patch.

 

Your feedback from the servers so far indicates that this change has had dramatic, positive impact on combat gameplay.

 

That said, we're not done improving combat responsiveness!

 

• As mentioned in my blog a few days ago, there are some additional fixes currently on our public test server as part of patch 1.1.1, which will roll out as soon as we're satisfied with that patch.
   
  
• We've heard your mixed feedback regarding the new cooldown animation that was part of patch 1.1, and we have improvements to the readability of that UI coming down the pipe.
   
  
• We're looking into improving the accuracy of cast bars. Their behavior should already be significantly improved with today's patch, but we believe there is still room to improve.
   
  
• We're also working on improvements to the responsiveness of individual ability animations, including faction specific timing differences and issues where shortening an ability activation time does not properly shorten it's animation.
  

Again, thank you for your constructive feedback on this issue, it has been vital to us in identifying and resolving this situation.

 

Regards

 

Georg

 

Still no word about the warzone turrets though.

[ErrantMercenary]

As a republic player that is letting their 50 Commando rot and leveling a Sorcerer so that I can enjoy the parts of the game I signed on for (being good at healing, having people to do PvE content with, storylines...the benefits are many) I'm posting here merely to keep this thread trending towards the top. It's accurate, provides proof, and highlights serious imbalances in the game observable by any layman.

 

 

I will put this as plainly as I can in the form of a nice pleasing story, especially considering I've parroted this exact problem several times:

 

You've already learned this lesson. You guys in Austin are smart, I know that. I'm not here to yell at you or insinuate that you have no idea how to make a game, or that terrible things should happen to your mothers, wives or children. I just want you to remember your last U.S. History class.

 

If it was anything like any reasonable U.S. history class, you learned a lesson about a woman, who FIFTY-SIX YEARS AGO, stood up for a simple truth, and became the poster child for a movement that has taught an entire nation (and indeed all of western civilization) that simple truth: "Separate But Equal" is a myth. A lie. An unachievable fantasy. Things that are different are by their very nature, inequal. Any math equation about anything will be more than happy to demonstrate that point for you.

 

To put it in game history terms: WoW tried this with Shamans and Paladins six (almost seven) years ago. The sentiment is noble: Let's add something unique to each faction to give it a special appeal. The reality is either: You favor one side entirely (a la our Rosa Parks example, and the current state of the SWTOR) or both sides end up furious at you for what they don't have (which is what ended up happening in WoW).

 

 

Is it boring? Undoubtedly. Is it the only way to ensure balance? Unfortunately. Should be a high priority fix? Absolutely.

[JoeRetro]

If it was anything like any reasonable U.S. history class, you learned a lesson about a woman, who FIFTY-SIX YEARS AGO, stood up for a simple truth, and became the poster child for a movement that has taught an entire nation (and indeed all of western civilization) that simple truth: "Separate But Equal" is a myth. A lie. An unachievable fantasy. Things that are different are by their very nature, inequal. Any math equation about anything will be more than happy to demonstrate that point for you.

 

To put it in game history terms: WoW tried this...

 

I want to see these issues fixed as much as the next person.

 

Can't help myself from adding this. Had to LOL at your analogy. The severity of human rights issues of an entire nation being compared to the "severity" of MMO balance and the history of video games. Yeah, I bet Rosa Parks is turning in her grave over this.

[ErrantMercenary]

I want to see these issues fixed as much as the next person.

 

Can't help myself from adding this. Had to LOL at your analogy. The severity of human rights issues of an entire nation being compared to the "severity" of MMO balance and the history of video games. Yeah, I bet Rosa Parks is turning in her grave over this.

 

I'm not saying that disparities in basic civil liberties and a silly internet video game are at all equal. They do however, display the same fundamental concept, and I picked Rosa Parks in particular because of her fame. It's a safe bet that the guys in Austin have taken a history class or two between the lot of them, so it's a good frame of reference to reinforce the lesson that they aren't currently applying to their game.

 

That's all.

 

 

Also, hyperbole is funny. And who doesn't like being funny on the internet?

Edited January 24, 2012 by ErrantMercenary

[Kellindell]

I dont remember the source, but it was a yellow post, definitely said they are adding more same faction WZs. If anyone else wants to find the link please do.

[Madprophetus]

So right now I'm sitting on my 50 vanguard and contemplating whether I should switch to powertech now or just wait until 1.2 hits with the legacy system to make the grind a little less painful.

 

I have a whole guild with me, 40+ accounts. Most will quit and go back to wow if I decide to change faction. Really feeling screwed by this obvious and awful situation regarding animation delays and other things that greatly favor the empire.

[Kellindell]

So right now I'm sitting on my 50 vanguard and contemplating whether I should switch to powertech now or just wait until 1.2 hits with the legacy system to make the grind a little less painful.

 

I have a whole guild with me, 40+ accounts. Most will quit and go back to wow if I decide to change faction. Really feeling screwed by this obvious and awful situation regarding animation delays and other things that greatly favor the empire.

 

Why will the legacy system make the grind less painful?

[Kellindell]

From the 1.1.1 notes.

 

Funny how they jump right on the one thing Reps had going for them...

 

 

Salvation: No longer heals targets twice on application. It now correctly heals all affected targets once when applied.

 

 

 

Since it has come up a few times I made a video of the consular and inquisitors knockback. There did turn out to be a slight difference of about 0.167s (about 1/6 of a second).

 

With such a small amount of time I really can't rule out other reasons(latency, instance vs. open world, etc) for the delay. This one is close enough that it doesn't really matter in the end, though BW really needs to get their stuff together and make every mirror ability act the exact same with just an animation difference.

 

Video Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEflabbJr4s

 

 

I'm not sure if you missed it earlier, but I uploaded proof for the Revivification/Salvation bug if could could add it to the OP. Thanks =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfVIwIKF0zw

 

I'll get around to the other ones eventually when I stop being so lazy!

[Madprophetus]

Why will the legacy system make the grind less painful?

 

Legacy bonuses are like heirloom items in wow. I'd find a quote but I'm lazy. It was in the gamespy interview with ghostcrawler-for-swtor.