*looks around, mumbles shyly* C-Can Scourge Become A Romance Option Please?

[Ylliarus]

Yay! Lunafox speaks - BW must act. Clearly from the suggestions in this thread, we are long overdue a pureblood male to romance. But then, for balance, they will need a Sith lady - I vote Hexid - she needs a decent story. She one of the few female companions I like. In fact she's the only one I like (not sure I like her enough to do a fem-male or fem-fem romance but I'd still like to see a story).

 

Someone mentioned Praven - I thought he would be a good option for the Jedi Knight minus that helmet though - not attractive!

 

I wonder when Scourge returns if he will have more customisations? I want the hair that Abaron has for Scourge. If I can get that look for him now, someone please tell me from where?

 

I fully agree, we need more Sith Pureblood companions and love interests! I would have loved to marry Cytharat on my male Sith Sorcerer, but sadly that's not going to happen I am afraid. However... I have no objections to Lord Abaron, hehe. Or... Vowrawn could have a good-looking, charming and intelligent son...

[Lunafox]

Yay! Lunafox speaks - BW must act. Clearly from the suggestions in this thread, we are long overdue a pureblood male to romance. But then, for balance, they will need a Sith lady - I vote Hexid - she needs a decent story. She one of the few female companions I like. In fact she's the only one I like (not sure I like her enough to do a fem-male or fem-fem romance but I'd still like to see a story).

 

Someone mentioned Praven - I thought he would be a good option for the Jedi Knight minus that helmet though - not attractive!

 

I wonder when Scourge returns if he will have more customisations? I want the hair that Abaron has for Scourge. If I can get that look for him now, someone please tell me from where?

 

 

I wish, but you know, I could have some real fun if what I said goes lol. At least for romances, story, and decorating anyway. Someone else can take the rest of the nitty gritty But yes, Bioware, please act and let us have our way with Scourge and keep him too.

 

I fully agree, we need more Sith Pureblood companions and love interests! I would have loved to marry Cytharat on my male Sith Sorcerer, but sadly that's not going to happen I am afraid. However... I have no objections to Lord Abaron, hehe. Or... Vowrawn could have a good-looking, charming and intelligent son...

 

I'm all for more pureblood Sith men, agreed. Abaron was always a favorite of mine. I always make a point of talking to the Academy's resident blood purist even if I don't have to. Vowrawn could have a son, but I'm quite willing to take on the man himself. Vowrawn is charming and so very very clever. I do love that in a man. Cytharat is wonderful and hey, they could give him a straight twin brother or something

[JennyFlynn]

I fully agree, we need more Sith Pureblood companions and love interests! I would have loved to marry Cytharat on my male Sith Sorcerer, but sadly that's not going to happen I am afraid. However... I have no objections to Lord Abaron, hehe. Or... Vowrawn could have a good-looking, charming and intelligent son...

It was a real shame they did nothing more with Cytharat, even if he had remained gay I would have happily welcomed him to my Alliance after his rehabilitation following Makeb. And Vowrawn... I don't need his son, just him with all his sass. He hardly looks old even if he is, by our definition of old because I'm fairly certain it works differently in the SW world.

[Ylliarus]

:Vowrawn could have a son, but I'm quite willing to take on the man himself. Vowrawn is charming and so very very clever. I do love that in a man.

 

And Vowrawn... I don't need his son, just him with all his sass. He hardly looks old even if he is, by our definition of old because I'm fairly certain it works differently in the SW world.

 

I didn't want to be the first to say that... but now that the words are out there, I'd be down for a Vowrawn romance myself as well! He is absolutely one of my favourite characters from SWTOR and frankly, if he were a romance option I'd be extremely happy with that!

[SteveTheCynic]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9347029#edit9347029

 

Here you go! This is the post where Charles Boyd mentioned it besides, the game tried to make it clear the Sith Emperor isn't around anymore. And tbh, I don't think people would want him to return anymore.

I just read that post. Charles doesn't actually say (in so many words) that TVV is permanently gone, but it's OK, because a number of people in-game who *should* be able to tell assert that TVV's gone.

 

 

Arcann says so if you spared him earlier in the story.

 

Senya confirms it. (I think. Maybe.)

 

Not sure what happens if you kill Arcann and Senya earlier in the story, but I'd be very surprised if Lana had *nothing* to say about it.

 

You get a letter from Satele Shan saying that both she and Darth Marr felt the pulse in the Force and that neither of them can feel any trace of TVV's presence any more.

 

[Ylliarus]

I just read that post. Charles doesn't actually say (in so many words) that TVV is permanently gone, but it's OK, because a number of people in-game who *should* be able to tell assert that TVV's gone.

 

 

Arcann says so if you spared him earlier in the story.

 

Senya confirms it. (I think. Maybe.)

 

Not sure what happens if you kill Arcann and Senya earlier in the story, but I'd be very surprised if Lana had *nothing* to say about it.

 

You get a letter from Satele Shan saying that both she and Darth Marr felt the pulse in the Force and that neither of them can feel any trace of TVV's presence any more.

 

True, my bad! I confused the article with one of the livestreams or podcasts that Charles Boyd was in, but the bad thing is that I can't remember which one it was I think it was in one of the Bad Feeling Podcasts...

[Kiesu]

I just read that post. Charles doesn't actually say (in so many words) that TVV is permanently gone, but it's OK, because a number of people in-game who *should* be able to tell assert that TVV's gone.

 

 

Arcann says so if you spared him earlier in the story.

 

Senya confirms it. (I think. Maybe.)

 

Not sure what happens if you kill Arcann and Senya earlier in the story, but I'd be very surprised if Lana had *nothing* to say about it.

 

You get a letter from Satele Shan saying that both she and Darth Marr felt the pulse in the Force and that neither of them can feel any trace of TVV's presence any more.

I am still skeptical, as they say the same thing at the end of JK storyline, and at the end of Makeb DLC Satele announces the Emperor dead even on the holonet. So, again, not the first time he has been declared dead.

 

True, my bad! I confused the article with one of the livestreams or podcasts that Charles Boyd was in, but the bad thing is that I can't remember which one it was I think it was in one of the Bad Feeling Podcasts...

Right. Well, I'm not gonna take hear-say to heart on this one, sorry

[Goreshaga]

I am still skeptical, as they say the same thing at the end of JK storyline, and at the end of Makeb DLC Satele announces the Emperor dead even on the holonet. So, again, not the first time he has been declared dead.

At the end of the JK's storyline, Scourge states that Vitiate is probably not dead though, and that he'll stick with the Knight the time to make sure he's not ploting anything else.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Goreshaga

[Ylliarus]

I am still skeptical, as they say the same thing at the end of JK storyline, and at the end of Makeb DLC Satele announces the Emperor dead even on the holonet. So, again, not the first time he has been declared dead.

 

Right. Well, I'm not gonna take hear-say to heart on this one, sorry

 

And that's understandable of course! Not asking you to trust me on my word of course

 

But I have a feeling you read into the "The Sith Emperor died somewhere between SWTOR and the Plagueis novel" too much, because since the release of KotET all the sources, including Wookieepedia, have redacted their content to say that he died a final death at the end of Chapter 9 in KotET: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vitiate

 

Also, I found the most compelling piece of evidence, namely, the codex entry "The Fall of Valkorion" that explicitly states Valkorion/Vitiate is dead for good: https://torcommunity.com/database/codex/6v7kJS8/0

 

I have a feeling the developers would not devote an entire Codex entry to say Valkorion is dead if it wasn't true.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Kiesu]

At the end of the JK's storyline, Scourge states that Vitiate is probably not dead though, and that he'll stick with the Knight the time to make sure he's not ploting anything else.

Yes, I know. And at this point SW wasn't in Disneys hand and SWTOR was still very much following canon, and his essence-transfer plot was very much active, so they couldn't have killed him anyway without pissing off Lucas.

 

And that's understandable of course! Not asking you to trust me on my word of course

 

But I have a feeling you read into the "The Sith Emperor died somewhere between SWTOR and the Plagueis novel" too much, because since the release of KotET all the sources, including Wookieepedia, have redacted their content to say that he died a final death at the end of Chapter 9 in KotET: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vitiate

 

Also, I found the most compelling piece of evidence, namely, the codex entry "The Fall of Valkorion" that explicitly states Valkorion/Vitiate is dead for good: https://torcommunity.com/database/codex/6v7kJS8/0

 

I have a feeling the developers would not devote an entire Codex entry to say Valkorion is dead if it wasn't true.

The Darth Plagues book starts with Sidious killing off his master, Plagueis

It would have to be a completely different character and timeline for that to happen.

So if he in fact is dead, SWTOR is parallel universe and not following the canon at all- which would be funny since the Plagueis book is mentioned in the the same wiki article.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Kiesu

[Ylliarus]

The Darth Plagues book starts with Sidious killing off his master, Plagueis

It would have to be a completely different character and timeline for that to happen.

So if he in fact is dead, SWTOR is parallel universe and not following the canon at all- which would be funny since the Plagueis book is mentioned in the the same wiki article.

 

Yes... I know... I have read it

 

The Plagueis novel merely mentions Vitiate as a character that achieved near-immortality, nothing more. So in that book we only get a reference to the Sith Emperor which suggests he eventually died somewhere between SWTOR and the Plagueis novel, which hadn't been established before KotFE and KotET were released. Now, with KotET Chapter 9, we now know when and how Vitiate permanently dies.

 

And you have lost me, tbh... SWTOR follows the Legends continuity, that has never been in question. It's no longer Disney canon, true, so in that regards all of Legends exists in a parellel universe until Disney makes SWTOR or the Old Republic era canon again. But the Legends "canon" is followed quite dutifully by SWTOR, so I don't understand why you speak of the game not following that "canon".

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Kiesu]

Yes... I know... I have read it

 

The Plagueis novel merely mentions Vitiate as a character that achieved near-immortality, nothing more. So in that book we only get a reference to the Sith Emperor which suggests he eventually died somewhere between SWTOR and the Plagueis novel. With KotET we now know when and how.

 

And you have lost me, tbh... SWTOR follows the Legends continuity that has been established in the past. It's no longer Disney canon, so in that regards it exists in a parellel universe until Disney makes SWTOR or the Old Republic era canon again. But the Legends "canon" is followed quite dutifully by SWTOR, so I don't understand why you speak of the game not following that "canon"

Because it wouldn't be following Legends canon if Vitiate died thousands of years earlier than he was supposed to?

Unless he IS still alive to rejoin fray in his later roles.

[Ylliarus]

Because it wouldn't be following Legends canon if Vitiate died thousands of years earlier than he was supposed to?

Unless he IS still alive to rejoin fray in his later roles.

 

Where did it ever say that Vitiate lived for thousands years more? The only thing that was ever said was that he died somewhere between SWTOR and the events of the Plagueis novel. A precise date or estimate was never given. And KotET fits that timescale of "Between SWTOR and the Plagueis novel".

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Kiesu]

Where did it ever say that Vitiate lived for thousands years more? The only thing that was ever said was that he died somewhere between SWTOR and the events of the Plagueis novel. A precise date or estimate was never given. And KotET fits that timescale of "Between SWTOR and the Plagueis novel".

SWTOR happens around the 3600BBY, and Plagueis ended in 32BBY. It is a very long "in between" state to pinpoint to be sure, but maybe. Since Eternal Empire is not mentioned in any other media ever and it was kinda big deal for him, it's a bit weird this would be his ultimate ending with no other mentions of this ultimat third faction along side him, but maybe it is and swtor's ambitious ending for him just sticks out of the lore like a sore thumb that was never even hinted despite it being stronger than rep and emp combined apparently. /shrug

Maybe it's just bad writing that makes it really.. hmm, non believable addition to the timeline.

[Ylliarus]

SWTOR happens around the 3600BBY, and Plagueis ended in 32BBY. It is a very long "in between" state to pinpoint to be sure, but maybe. Since Eternal Empire is not mentioned in any other media ever and it was kinda big deal for him, it's a bit weird this would be his ultimate ending with no other mentions of this ultimat third faction along side him, but maybe it is and swtor's ambitious ending for him just sticks out of the lore like a sore thumb that was never even hinted despite it being stronger than rep and emp combined apparently. /shrug

Maybe it's just bad writing that makes it really.. hmm, non believable addition to the timeline.

 

Well the thing is... Plagueis was written way before KotFE and KotET came out. So for example that novel could not state anything about Zakuul because it was not yet thought of at that point. Because Plagueis was written in 2012, Knights of the Fallen Empire came out three years later in 2015. So it's only logical that no other media mentioned the Eternal Empire because by the time KotFE was released, SWTOR and other material like the Plagueis novel became Legends material. So previous content couldn't know about Zakuul and Valkorion's third secret Empire, because all of that wasn't even released back then.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Kiesu]

Well the thing is... Plagueis was written way before KotFE and KotET came out. So for example that novel could not state anything about Zakuul because it was not yet thought of at that point. Because Plagueis was written in 2012, Knights of the Fallen Empire came out three years later in 2015. So it's only logical that no other media mentioned the Eternal Empire because by the time KotFE was released, SWTOR and other material like the Plagueis novel became Legends material. So previous content couldn't know about Zakuul and Valkorion's third secret Empire, because all of that wasn't even released back then.

Hehe, that's not exactly that I meant, I wasn't expecting to have foresight on past events that have yet to be determined, but you're correct it would be silly to expect that lol. It just the way they delivered this plot, because an Emperor having two Empires, kinda big deal! So big it practically blew him trough the roof on pecking order overnight. It's a bit much, like adding another deathstar to some ancient history nobody in the future knew about. That's kinda the problem with all all-powerful superpower-weapon plots, they look really damn weird looking back from the future, like everyone just... forgot about something that should have been a rally big deal in the particular universe, even if it happened thousands of years ago, you know

[Ylliarus]

Hehe, that's not exactly that I meant, I wasn't expecting to have foresight on past events that have yet to be determined, but you're correct it would be silly to expect that lol. It just the way they delivered this plot, because an Emperor having two Empires, kinda big deal! So big it practically blew him trough the roof on pecking order overnight. It's a bit much, like adding another deathstar to some ancient history nobody in the future knew about. That's kinda the problem with all all-powerful superpower-weapon plots, they look really damn weird looking back from the future, like everyone just... forgot about something that should have been a rally big deal in the particular universe, even if it happened thousands of years ago, you know

 

I will agree with you there, the entire Eternal Empire thing felt as an hastily added afterthought. Personally, I found a bad and unnecessary story element. Until this day it makes little sense to me why Vitiate would have been building 2 secret Empires, first the Sith and then suddenly also Zakuul because he saw the Sith weren't perfect. That contradicts his entire being, which was initially established to be that of a "I want to consume the entire galaxy and become a living deity"-type.

 

I really wish they had kept Vitiate and Valkorion as two seperate characters. Zakuul could have been a hidden Empire sure, but one that had no ties to Vitiate. Sadly, we got what we got and in my opinion it diminished Vitiate's/Valkorion's character. Despite that though, he still remains my favourite character from SWTOR

[JennyFlynn]

I really wish they had kept Vitiate and Valkorion as two seperate characters. Zakuul could have been a hidden Empire sure, but one that had no ties to Vitiate. Sadly, we got what we got and in my opinion it diminished Vitiate's/Valkorion's character. Despite that though, he still remains my favourite character from SWTOR

Ditto.

 

I really enjoyed the Vitiate persona and the storylines my JK and SW worked with. I loved the lore history behind him, what we read in the Revan novel and even the notion that the Sith Emperor was still out there, somewhere, despite the Knight's class story finale. I would have preferred it if they'd left it at that.

 

To me, the Valkorion situation diminished Vitiate's story and character as well and I would have rather seen them as two separate identities. Granted Valkorion still causes plenty of trouble and has his evil moments... it was too "Evil, omnipresent Sith Emperor retires to Zakuul to start a family". On top of that, I didn't like the way the ritual of Nathema was explained. To me, based on the original reading material, it always struck me as a Force/mystical sort of ritual with thousands of Sith chanting to offer up their power, deceived by Vitiate's promises and him in turn taking everything, including their life force and that of the planet. Now it's a case of Vitiate taking a piece of technology, a damned Old God droid, to do the work for him while he reaps the benefits. To me, that's disappointing as hell.

 

Then there are the plotholes that still haven't been answered, and that were created by this whole "Vitiate is also Valkorion, lols" situation. Yeah, I never dug the whole Valkorion situation much. It's done now and it is what it is but I would have preferred Valkorion as a standalone big bad, without being tied to Vitiate in any way.

[Ylliarus]

On top of that, I didn't like the way the ritual of Nathema was explained. To me, based on the original reading material, it always struck me as a Force/mystical sort of ritual with thousands of Sith chanting to offer up their power, deceived by Vitiate's promises and him in turn taking everything, including their life force and that of the planet. Now it's a case of Vitiate taking a piece of technology, a damned Old God droid, to do the work for him while he reaps the benefits. To me, that's disappointing as hell.

 

100% agreed, that was the one thing I found bad about the Nathema Conspiracy FP. The fact that Zildrog was the tool used for the ritual diminishes the feat performed with the Nathema ritual. I had always been awed by the concept that thousands of Sith Lords were chanting, enthralled by Vitiate's power. The fact that Zildrog is no involved... KotFE and KotET ruined really a lot of good stuff about SWTOR

[Xina_LA]

I thought about it quite a bit... I'd love to see Scourge become a romance option.

Great voice acting, interesting character... yep, great idea!

[Dracofish]

Is it possible that Vitiate and the Sith Emperor in the novel are two different characters? I haven't read it...just throwing it out there.... Edited October 18, 2018 by Dracofish

[Ylliarus]

Is it possible that Vitiate and the Sith Emperor in the novel are two different characters? I haven't read it...just throwing it out there....

 

No, no, they mean Vitiate as the Sith Emperor of our era in Plagueis, there's no doubt about that I think that might have been one of the reasons why Plagueis was declared Legends content, not main Disney canon because it would canonize SWTOR by acknowledging the Sith Emperor's existence. But as I said before, the Plagueis novel was published in 2012 so the events of KotFE and KotET weren't even in the planning back then.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[FlameYOL]

Honestly I find it surprising people hate the Valkorion side of Tenebrae, I found it to make complete sense considering we're dealing with a being with a god complex the size of a galaxy. The fact he built a secret Empire might be too much of a stretch but when you consider how he saw the Sith it makes sense, the Sith are volatile by nature. They are extremely powerful but twice the Dark Council had turned against the Emperor. With Zakuul he had not only a perfect society for its citizens but for himself, the worldbuilding there is really amazing IMO. He built a society that sees himself not only as a leader but as a god, with the Knights of Zakuul blindly and fanatically serving him, believing the force to be merely a tool to bring about HISwill. Anyway just my 2 cents, but if you ask me KOTFE/KOTET added to an already awesome character.

 

As for Zildrog I'll admit I'm disappointed by it, but Darth Nyriss could've been wrong or not fully aware of the details of the ritual. I think Charles mentioned in one of his Dev posts that Zildrog was merely used as "preparation" for the ritual, Zildrog consumes the life of Nathema, Tenebrae consumes the force. I still hope they explain how he found Zildrog in the first place, as I recall Charles said that would be explained in a Tweet.

[Ylliarus]

Honestly I find it surprising people hate the Valkorion side of Tenebrae, I found it to make complete sense considering we're dealing with a being with a god complex the size of a galaxy. The fact he built a secret Empire might be too much of a stretch but when you consider how he saw the Sith it makes sense, the Sith are volatile by nature. They are extremely powerful but twice the Dark Council had turned against the Emperor. With Zakuul he had not only a perfect society for its citizens but for himself, the worldbuilding there is really amazing IMO. He built a society that sees himself not only as a leader but as a god, with the Knights of Zakuul blindly and fanatically serving him, believing the force to be merely a tool to bring about HISwill. Anyway just my 2 cents, but if you ask me KOTFE/KOTET added to an already awesome character.

 

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't hate Valkorion as a character! I mean, how could you hate him... he is epic, especially his voice! However, I have difficulty reconciling the Sith Emperor we saw throughout the base game and the Sith Emperor we see as Valkorion. Because as Vitiate he is vastly different than Valkorion, up to the point that they seem as two completely different beings with completely diverging motives. Vitiate wanted to consume the galaxy to become the ultimate being, Valkorion seemingly wanted to create the ultimate galactic society. Perhaps both are based on a god-complex, but they vastly differ from one another in endgoals. Vitiate seemed enigmatic and incomprehensible to mere mortals, Valkorion on the other hand just comes across as yet another despotic ruler with grand plans for the galaxy.

 

Yet if you take into account that KotFE and KotET were actually the original planned story for KOTOR 3, then it makes sense. If you look at certain aspects of the story you'll find that it comes across as recycled from an originally different idea. The Outlander fits the role of Revan, who is captured by an unknown hidden force that is a great threat to the Republic. We're rescued by Lana Beniko, who can easily be swapped with the Exile, who went out to find Revan/the Outlander to rescue him, along with their faitful droid T3-M4, or in KotFE's case, T7-01. I could continue on drawing the parallels, but surely you get the point I am making. KotFE and KotET basically were recycled from an original idea for KOTOR 3, but changed to fit the already existing narrative of SWTOR. Which is why we get yet another secret Empire ruled by an Immortal Emperor.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Lunafox]

I didn't want to be the first to say that... but now that the words are out there, I'd be down for a Vowrawn romance myself as well! He is absolutely one of my favourite characters from SWTOR and frankly, if he were a romance option I'd be extremely happy with that!

 

I just asked Charles on Twitter if he'd think about it, so yes, fellow Vowrawn lovers! Show your support