252/258 gear for "pure" PVPers

[Totemdancer]

I don't buy this. PvP queues in lowbies and midbies straight up died when they implemented this new system and pvpers at level cap left in droves. The community was already small and now its barely alive.

 

Literally this is how you solve the pve player problem and its a ridiculously easy fix and imo probably way more simple than the obnoxious bolster system, especially with how it worked when we had pvp gear.

 

Say we got pvp gear back in 6.0 and we got the system we had in 4.x. Say tier 1 is ilvl 304, and tier 2 is 308. All you have to do for bolster is take ANY none pvp piece and raise its stats up or down depending on its ivl and bring it to a baseline ilvl 300 with max expertise. We'll have our pvp stat back that can be balanced around, we'll have pvp gear that will be easy to get (4.x grind) and pvers can take their time getting pvp gear because they will have a baseline that will keep them competitive and the pure pvpers can customize their stats to their hearts content with the mod vendors.

 

Exactly this. couldn’t have said it better.

 

I’ve seen similar feed back and the same conclusions about lowbies and Mids since 5.1 was around. Bioware just don’t understand or get how much they harmed the whole of pvp by doing what they did.

And they refuse to address the lowbie/mid problems with other incentives to revive those brackets. They won’t even acknowledge it and they’ve been asked so many times now and there have been many thread and pages and pages of posts on simple fixes.

 

It’s utter arrogance on their part because they think they know best what pvpers want and do the opposite to what we do want. When the community comes together and gives overwhelming negative feed back, they ignore us and go into a communications black out till we shut up or leave the game in disgust.

They just don’t give a rats because if they did, they would care enough to consult and listen to the real issues plaguing pvp.

[Mournblood]

They just don’t give a rats because if they did, they would care enough to consult and listen to the real issues plaguing pvp.

 

As long as players keep giving them money, they have no incentive to care.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Decisions from devs? Lack of content? Not much response towards the community feedback?

 

Not enough reasons?

 

Being that you, and me, most of the other posters aren't leaving the game over it, no, those aren't enough reasons apparently

 

Not saying his wrong for leaving, no one is wrong for leaving if they don't want to continue to play, I just was curious as to why he was leaving as he has a long standing presence.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I don't mind you asking. I generally don't go into details because it's not really relevant to the conversation. And yes, I've been a subscriber since day 1 in this game. As for my decision to leave, to be honest, it has more to do with my disconnect with younger players and the changing demographic of MMOs than anything else. Toxicity, immaturity, selfishness, and self-entitlement has really driven the quality of the player community down since the days of EQ. Certainly, even EQ had ill-behaved players, but they were far fewer and quickly dealt with by either the player community or SOE's GMs. The GMs policed in-game, chat channels weren't unmoderated cesspools, and players were much more considerate and respectful of each other. You had to be when you had 64 other people in a raid with you. Yes, 65-man raids were a thing in EQ. Hell, you even had in-game etiquette such as a hotkeyed macro that shouted in zone chat "TRAIN TO ZONE" when you bit off more than you could chew and had to run for your life without wiping out everyone that was at the zone entrance. Or if you died somewhere in the Crystal Caverns, some kindly Necromancer or Shadowknight would summon your corpse for you (usually for free). Or if you were a lowbie/newbie who needed an escort through Kithicor Forest at night, a group would take you. Different game, different times.

 

This is my 10th MMO over the course of two decades. And while MMOs have changed in some significant ways, the biggest difference is the people playing them. Although I don't miss corpse runs in EQ, I do miss the player integrity - where players didn't act any differently in the game than they would out of the game if you were standing right in front of them. Over the last decade, this has slowly changed for the worse as more and more players displace their social inhibitions due to internet anonymity. The biggest example of this is the toxicity of General chat, which is so out of control that I was forced to disable it on all my toons so that my daughter wouldn't read the crap people were saying while she'd sit in my lap as I played the game. Though we all know that most if not all of the trolls in General chat making sick jokes about sexually assaulting (I can't type the actual word that starts with an "R" because it gets filtered) women or about the Jews during the Holocaust wouldn't get away with that out in the real world where someone would likely beat them like a Cherokee drum. We're seeing this in other aspects of the game too, such as PvP, where Ranked refugees are forcing a deathmatch format on other players in an objective-based WZ. I've argued that one to death, as have others, but the problem has only grown and it's ruined WZs for me. Even my own former guild of 5+ years is doing this now, which left me no recourse but to leave it (among other reason I won't go into here).

 

Anyway, the conclusion I came to is that I'm apparently too old-fashioned for today's MMOs. While I'm sure I'll be playing video games until I'm either too blind to see or too infirm to hold a controller, this will be my last MMO (I'm sticking with RPGs from now on), and given the state of the game and my growing discontent with many of the players and EA/Bioware in general, it seemed better to part ways while I still have some relatively good memories intact. The T5 gearing system coming in 5.10, and the ensuing arguments about that, only reaffirmed my decision.

 

My wife on the other hand, whom I introduced to MMOs with EQ back when we were dating, plans to continue playing this game until it shuts down. Once it does, it will be her last MMO as well.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

 

All perfectly understandable reasons for your decision. It would be impossible to deny your observations.

 

I would be a hypocrite if I said I'm not an offender, I do more than my share of breaking TOS. Even still, there are certain things even I wouldn't say and yeah, there is a line, and that line is something really everybody should know. I'm actually quite sensitive to the Jews/Holocaust thingy myself, and usually go off like a rocket when it is joked about or used for insulting, so using that as example made me easily understand your position.

 

They are strict on the forums though, but much less so in game. I've been banned from the forums tons of times, I've only been banned in game 2 or 3 times in 6 + years. It isn't easy to get in trouble in game, that is more to my personal preference [i don't like paying for subscriptions that I can't use for a week or more ], but I do understand why some would take the view you do, and I cannot deny the legitimacy of your reasoning.

 

The toxicity issue is rampant. You can't go 10 minutes in PVP without seeing some amount of it and it often than spills over into Fleet chat afterwards. Additionally, I find PVPers to be notably more toxic than Raiders. The toxicity issue plays a significant part [ in my opinion] for the low population levels in PVP and most certainly in Ranked.

 

While I respect your reasoning, I hate to see you go. Your pretense on the forums has been significant in my opinion, your style of expressing your views and stand up nature make you a respected poster. I don't always agree with all your opinions, but I respect the manner and steadfastness with which you express them with. You're one of the posters whom I will always read when I see your name. Our loss, and whichever MMO you go to next's gain.

 

I wish you well, I hope you find an MMO more in keeping with your gaming preferences. and hope perhaps someday nostalgia might coax you to return to SWTOR.

Edited October 24, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[nepochop]

I am glad how the discussion went. Its good to see that similar threads were made in General section. We have spoken our minds, Bioware has over a month to come up with something else or at least correct the rewards so that they take PVPers into account.

 

Lets see what they will come up with.

[memerobot]

Being that you, and me, most of the other posters aren't leaving the game over it, no, those aren't enough reasons apparently

 

Considering I play the game mostly casually nowadays, yeah, I don't lose anything. Like many others, I've started to move onto other games. Coming back to SWTOR after a while doesn't feel that bad but its not the same, that's what I can say.

[Mournblood]

While I respect your reasoning, I hate to see you go. Your [presence] on the forums has been significant in my opinion, your style of expressing your views and stand up nature make you a respected poster. I don't always agree with all your opinions, but I respect the manner and steadfastness with which you express them with. You're one of the posters whom I will always read when I see your name. Our loss, and whichever MMO you go to next's gain.

 

Thank you, Grim.

[KendraP]

Considering I play the game mostly casually nowadays, yeah, I don't lose anything. Like many others, I've started to move onto other games. Coming back to SWTOR after a while doesn't feel that bad but its not the same, that's what I can say.

 

Ditto - there was a time when i spent almost 4 hours every night playing, with more on the weekend. Now, swtor is my sunday morning brunch activity pretty much.

 

And what's more depressing - seeing as i still throw the money at the sub, they don't care if I'm happy or not. I do not feel valued as a customer in the slightest, and this will eventually cause me to stop throwing money at them. Its just sad that money is the only thing they listen to.

[memerobot]

Ditto - there was a time when i spent almost 4 hours every night playing, with more on the weekend. Now, swtor is my sunday morning brunch activity pretty much.

 

And what's more depressing - seeing as i still throw the money at the sub, they don't care if I'm happy or not. I do not feel valued as a customer in the slightest, and this will eventually cause me to stop throwing money at them. Its just sad that money is the only thing they listen to.

 

Well, my sub basically has been running for 9 months out of giveaway (except for 2 months at start where I bought but i gained the additional 7 over time). So I'm fine until it runs out

 

And I have to agree. For someone who wants to invest time into the game, it may, or not, be a waste of time. PvP wise it ends up becoming that, specially Ranked (who knows why, amirite?).

As for PvE, well, perhaps someone ends up being bored, after a while, I suppose. I still get a sparkle from doing silly challenges. 2-4 player SM ops an 4-6 player Vet ops and stuff like that. Doing it the usual way ends up being really boring.

[Neulwen]

PvP queues in lowbies and midbies straight up died when they implemented this new system [...]

True. This is indeed sad, but it could be fixed by having lowbi/midbi PvP, along with some lowbi/midbi PvE content like heroics and FPs, reward some UCs. But yes, PvP gear and a bolster that works well would be good too.

 

Its just sad that money is the only thing they listen to.

But that's the thing, I'm not sure, because as they make the game less enjoyable, they lose players and thus money. :/

[memerobot]

True. This is indeed sad, but it could be fixed by having lowbi/midbi PvP, along with some lowbi/midbi PvE content like heroics and FPs, reward some UCs. But yes, PvP gear and a bolster that works well would be good too.

 

To revive low/mid, they should grant even more UCs than top level. I know this sounds weird but honestly, it is what i think it could reanimate the gearing.

 

 

But that's the thing, I'm not sure, because as they make the game less enjoyable, they lose players and thus money. :/

 

Well, it is a contradicting thing that is happening. Even in the sad state that SWTOR is in, it still milks the money out of the players easily to be a gold mine.

[Lhancelot]

As long as players keep giving them money, they have no incentive to care.

 

Yeah I came to this conclusion. I dropped my sub for the first time since playing the game which was when it first began. I am hoping dropped subs actually make them care, but know in my heart it won't.

 

I guess I am hoping some miracle will occur and some new info will come out on the forums that is encouraging enough to want to play again. Again, in my heart I know this won't happen either, hence why I just decided to pull the plug this time.

 

I am tired of emotional roller coaster rides on this game. I come to games to have fun and enjoyment, not find frustration and anger.

 

The interesting part is the questionnaire you get when you drop the sub, I mean it's a thorough and inquisitive questionnaire. It makes you feel like they actually care you are dropping your sub.

[Totemdancer]

As long as players keep giving them money, they have no incentive to care.

 

Sadly, if we all pull the money to make a point, they have no money to make the game. It’s catch-22.

They only listen when we stop subbing and by then it’s too late.

It’s the most illogical way to do business I’ve ever seen. Pissing your customers off till they leave before you read their feed back is idiotic. Any other business would fail and go out of business. And it’s s big reason this game is failing.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Totemdancer]

To revive low/mid, they should grant even more UCs than top level. I know this sounds weird but honestly, it is what i think it could reanimate the gearing

 

I don’t know if that’s exactly the way to do it. But they should definitely include UCs as a reward for doing lower lvl pvp.

It encourages people to lvl up that way or play pvp as they lvl in pve.

I think they could just add some UCs as rewards. But I dont think they should be more than top lvl. It’s possible they could do double UC promotions for lowbies when they do double CXP for lvl 70.

There also needs to be some incentives to try and win. Otherwise you will just have UC farmers infesting lowbies and sitting in a corner all match. Possibly, they could give way more UCs for winning than losing.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Totemdancer]

 

I am tired of emotional roller coaster rides on this game. I come to games to have fun and enjoyment, not find frustration and anger.

 

Exactly this!!!

 

Why the hell cant Bioware understand this?

[memerobot]

I don’t know if that’s exactly the way to do it. But they should definitely include UCs as a reward for doing lower lvl pvp.

It encourages people to lvl up that way or play pvp as they lvl in pve.

I think they could just add some UCs as rewards. But I dont think they should be more than top lvl. It’s possible they could do double UC promotions for lowbies when they do double CXP for lvl 70.

There also needs to be some incentives to try and win. Otherwise you will just have UC farmers infesting lowbies and sitting in a corner all match. Possibly, they could give way more UCs for winning than losing.

 

Well, if they give less (which in a way is logical due to being low level), the low level pvp won't get revived since at level 70 PvP you get UCs AND CXP. If the amount is the same results are the same. So yeah, only having higher is the alternative. And honestly, since the games are so fast due to being a bigger slaughter, and somehow more objective tight, it ends up being more fun.

[KendraP]

Well, if they give less (which in a way is logical due to being low level), the low level pvp won't get revived since at level 70 PvP you get UCs AND CXP. If the amount is the same results are the same. So yeah, only having higher is the alternative. And honestly, since the games are so fast due to being a bigger slaughter, and somehow more objective tight, it ends up being more fun.

 

I did lowbie pvp recently bringing up a new toon from 30ish that i inherited from server mergers. What you say is true... once i got to about level 65 and could go roflstomp the 43s lol. When i was the level 41 in queue - oh buddy. It was a good thing I'm experienced at being the focused target.

 

There were also only 2 actual warzones (both vandin huttballs) over the weekend i was doing this. But hey popping at all on saturday morning PDT is something i guess.

 

I agree that they should put UC or something in lowbies. Idk if we want to encourage the 69s that leave 6s before the end because they don't want to join 70s, though. Levelling is the means to an end, after all.

[memerobot]

I did lowbie pvp recently bringing up a new toon from 30ish that i inherited from server mergers. What you say is true... once i got to about level 65 and could go roflstomp the 43s lol. When i was the level 41 in queue - oh buddy. It was a good thing I'm experienced at being the focused target.

 

I prefer the 10-39 honestly. It's an even bigger killing fest around. Everything feels "op" in every way. Heals are stronger than usual, but the DPS you deal/take? Jesus, you die in 4 - 5 hits, even with defensives up. Makes me remember old 50 or 55 PvP. Not this crap we have now.

And honestly the tanking there is more 'appropriated' as so to speak. You actually play like one, instead of being a DPS with upgraded defensives.

 

I agree that they should put UC or something in lowbies. Idk if we want to encourage the 69s that leave 6s before the end because they don't want to join 70s, though. Levelling is the means to an end, after all.

 

Well, about not leaving, there's nothing that can be done about that. They don't receive the rewards anyway, so yeah.

And about UCs, they should be higher than 70, otherwise, as I said before, there's no point in doing lowbies if the rewards are the same or less.

Edited October 25, 2018 by memerobot

[Neulwen]

And about UCs, they should be higher than 70, otherwise, as I said before, there's no point in doing lowbies if the rewards are the same or less.

We don't get CXP but we get XP. Lowbi/midbi PvP is mainly a way to lvl up afterall. Even if it rewarded less UCs than at 70, it would be a nice bonus. Rewarding more than at 70 might take ppl away from 70 PvP. Especially now as we will need a ton of UCs for the new gear ._.

[KendraP]

We don't get CXP but we get XP. Lowbi/midbi PvP is mainly a way to lvl up afterall. Even if it rewarded less UCs than at 70, it would be a nice bonus. Rewarding more than at 70 might take ppl away from 70 PvP. Especially now as we will need a ton of UCs for the new gear ._.

 

This was what i was thinking as well. Encourage players to queue while levelling to get rid of the arena constantly mess, but not by running people off of max level

[Lhancelot]

This was what i was thinking as well. Encourage players to queue while levelling to get rid of the arena constantly mess, but not by running people off of max level

 

In the past PVP rewarded WZ comms from lowbies to cap level, you always have losers who will leave the WZ when they are near 70 just to avoid 70s PVP so they can farm lower levels, but there are far more people who enjoy having all abilities/utilities and you only get that when you are cap level. Far more people will level to cap than those staying to farm lowbies in mids.

 

They need to reward all tiers of PVP with UCs otherwise there is zero incentive for people to play in lowbies/mids. Of course this would reduce the gear grind time, and they don't want this plus they make good coin on the CM by selling Master Datacrons to people who hate leveling up. Giving people more ways to accrue UCs would reduce the money coming in for those.

 

They will do nothing to improve the activity of lowbies/mids.

[KendraP]

In the past PVP rewarded WZ comms from lowbies to cap level, you always have losers who will leave the WZ when they are near 70 just to avoid 70s PVP so they can farm lower levels, but there are far more people who enjoy having all abilities/utilities and you only get that when you are cap level. Far more people will level to cap than those staying to farm lowbies in mids.

 

They need to reward all tiers of PVP with UCs otherwise there is zero incentive for people to play in lowbies/mids. Of course this would reduce the gear grind time, and they don't want this plus they make good coin on the CM by selling Master Datacrons to people who hate leveling up. Giving people more ways to accrue UCs would reduce the money coming in for those.

 

They will do nothing to improve the activity of lowbies/mids.

 

i said i agreed with adding UCs - just not with making it more profitable than max level

[Totemdancer]

i said i agreed with adding UCs - just not with making it more profitable than max level

 

Same, I agree they should be in lowbies and Mids. But I dont think they should reward more than lvl 70.

[memerobot]

Same, I agree they should be in lowbies and Mids. But I dont think they should reward more than lvl 70.

 

Well, at least the same. I know that gaining UCs on low/mid PvP would be nice but if its less, honestly, its not great of an incentive, really. At least the same but even then not sure if its really THAT good of an incentive to do it.

I mean, the benefit of low/mid PvP is that they are considerably faster and seem more objective based thus more fun than 70's(imo).

 

i said i agreed with adding UCs - just not with making it more profitable than max level

 

The only reason I say more is because of the same above. Given less or same as 70s might not be that good. Lhancelot explained earlier. People enjoy playing with all abilities than being 'gutted' from the lack of them, so yeah, more would be good(I think).

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

In the past PVP rewarded WZ comms from lowbies to cap level, you always have losers who will leave the WZ when they are near 70 just to avoid 70s PVP so they can farm lower levels, but there are far more people who enjoy having all abilities/utilities and you only get that when you are cap level. Far more people will level to cap than those staying to farm lowbies in mids.

 

They need to reward all tiers of PVP with UCs otherwise there is zero incentive for people to play in lowbies/mids. Of course this would reduce the gear grind time, and they don't want this plus they make good coin on the CM by selling Master Datacrons to people who hate leveling up. Giving people more ways to accrue UCs would reduce the money coming in for those.

 

They will do nothing to improve the activity of lowbies/mids.

 

While I understand the reasoning behind the suggestion and it makes perfect sense form a PVP POV, before when you could earn PVP coms even before cap that you could use at cap to get PVP gear, as things stand now it's BIS gear which is shared by both PVE and PVP. Letting PVPers earn towards end game BIS gear before cap, would be unfair to PVEers as they's have no way of earning towards end game gear until they reached end game, in effect, it would allow PVPing to set them up for PVE gear as well.

 

Personally, and this is just my personal opinion, I don't think people should be able to work towards end game gear before reaching end game unless PVEers could do so as well. Fair is fair. But, if I'm being honest, I don't think anyone should be able to do it at all, if you make end game gear waiting for you the second you reach end game, it makes alot of end game pointless because you don't need anything, so some players would have no incentive to do end game, end game would be just that, the end of the game in any meaningful way.

 

PVPers don't really need carrots on the end of sticks, that's a fair point to be sure, but PVEers do.

 

I personally care about both sides of the game, even no I'm no longer a Raider, I just can't not take that side of things into consideration as well. I do totally get the reasoning behind your suggestion and I'm not arguing it's legitimacy from a PVP POV, if it's PVP gear. BIS gear is a different matter tho.

 

I know a lot of my opinions seem to be out of sync with alot of other PVPers, but I'm not trying to put roadblocks in their way, if that's how it seems. - I'll back whatever the consensus of PVPers feel is best, even if I don't necessarily agree with it on a personal level.

 

This whole situation of the shared BIS gear makes it very problematic to be considerate of both modes of play and that's why despite my love of gearing, and not having any real personal preference, I do feel that PVP gear coming back is vital to the health and prosperity of PVPers and PVP in general. The Raider/PVPer mind sets just aren't compatible.

 

As far as lowbies and midbies and incentive issues, sure, let's find something to make it worthwhile and beneficial while leveling, I'm just not sure earning UCs would be a fair way of doing so without consideration given to PVEers as well.

Edited October 26, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx