The Nathema Story Line does not make any sense at all

[Nefla]

I think the implication is simply that it still wasn't enough. Or at least it wasn't enough to fix feed everyone right away. We didn't see the full extent of the devastation over the entire planet.

 

And yes, you're right about Valkorion starting the war, but the people of Zakuul don't know that. As far as they know, an Outlander showed up, killed Valkorion and then Arcann went to war in revenge. Most people don't seem to be aware that Arcann and Thexan raided the Republic and Empire before the war. Nor do they know his true origins or his cruelty towards his kids. Koth even makes a point of saying that Valkorion wasn't interested in waging war. Most Zakuulans probably still see Valkorion as a peaceful ruler.

Even if that's true and it was not enough help right away, he himself does nothing to help and is trying to take away the one group that is helping those people (and protecting them from reprisals) it would go from "maybe not enough/not enough right away" to "nothing at all." I just really don't find illogical "evil because crazy" type villains to be interesting. If he had been trying to take back the Eternal Fleet and Gravestone for Zakuul that would have made waaaay more sense to me than trying to destroy it and Zakuul's aid and protection with it.

 

I could see maybe a random civilian not knowing about Valkorion starting the war by sending the twins out but Vinn Atrius was a knight right? The knights went along on those raids under Arcann and Thexan's command. Even if he didn't go personally, he surely would have known about it. He was very likely to have participated in the unprovoked, instigating attacks against the Empire and Republic.

[Fallensouls]

See that is one of the reasons I started this thread. Here you are the savior of the Galaxy and you lost your fleet over night and lost your super weapon. Indo and the whole planet of Zakuul turns on you. No explanation as to why except for the ranting former Knight. Like the whole planet or Indo would forget you stopped Vaylan and Arcann from destroying everyone. The ending everyone turns on your character except a few. That is not realistic at all or even good writing. As if after everything anyone would turn on you after saving them from a terrible fate like that? It is obviously written that way to make your character to have to go beg the former faction for help. Which is pathetic. Basically they turned our story into one of a loser who cant keep his own followers and has to run back to factions who have betrayed him or her trying to steal from you on Iokath. Really I am dreading the new expansion, if it is written like this Nathema stuff it wont be fun. Edited October 2, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Nefla]

See that is one of the reasons I started this thread. Here you are the savior of the Galaxy and you lost your fleet over night and lost your super weapon. Indo and the whole planet of Zakuul turns on you. No explanation as to why except for the ranting former Knight. Like the whole planet or Indo would forget you stopped Vaylan and Arcann from destroying everyone. The ending everyone turns on your character except a few. That is not realistic at all or even good writing. As if after everything anyone would turn on you after saving them from a terrible fate like that? It is obviously written that way to make your character to have to go beg the former faction for help. Which is pathetic. Basically they turned our story into one of a loser who cant keep his own followers and has to run back to factions who have betrayed him or her trying to steal from you on Iokath. Really I am dreading the new expansion, if it is written like this Nathema stuff it wont be fun.

 

You can thank the people screaming about how the Alliance stuff sucks and that Star Wars can only be Empire vs Republic for the destruction of the Alliance and us returning to Republic vs Empire. Personally I never cared which type/faction of story we got, I just wanted things to be good and make sense.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I don't understand your point there. The point is for them the Outlander is evil because he is the one who caused their downfall, Vinn especially sees you as the reason. Is it logical? No, but they weren't made to be. Tenebrae built a society that worshiped him as a god so it's not that much of a stretch to assume most Zakuulans would see his reign as the golden age and foolish believe it would've never ended had the outlander allegedly not killed Valkorion.

 

Yes. Also, the Codex entry for the Knights of Zakuul (and the Horizon Guards, since they come from the Knights) say that they were fanatical in their devotion to Valkorion and his family, and that they saw any action and sacrifice as honoring the Emperor. They thought their connection to the Force actually flowed from Valkorion. Given that, it's not unusual at all that a former Horizon Guard like Vinn Atrius would have felt like he did. From his point of view avenging the Emperor was probably a sacred duty.

 

To the average Zakuulan, even without that background, the Outlander was a terrorist. They didn't know or care what was happening to the rest of the galaxy; all they knew was that Valkorion was their Dear Leader and treated them very well. When their armies invaded other planets, whatever, it still didn't affect them. The Outlander came in and killed Valkorion, and that ruined everything for them. Even the name 'Outlander' and some of the comments made by Zakuulans show that they were very isolated from the rest of the galaxy and what was happening there.

[Nefla]

I don't understand your point there. The point is for them the Outlander is evil because he is the one who caused their downfall, Vinn especially sees you as the reason. Is it logical? No, but they weren't made to be. Tenebrae built a society that worshiped him as a god so it's not that much of a stretch to assume most Zakuulans would see his reign as the golden age and foolish believe it would've never ended had the outlander allegedly not killed Valkorion.

 

I do agree seeing something from Vinn before would've been nice but his characterization is fine. His plan isn't mean to be driven by logic, it's driven by revenge, a blind lust for revenge and foolish naivety that if the Alliance goes away everything will be right again. Which is clearly not the case, but while we might see it as such, Vinn Atrius doesn't and is unfortunately unable to be reasoned with.

 

I think at best adapt Vinn's line to fit a LS Peacekeeper better, I think what they could've done is adapt lines about both alignments, perhaps even a reference to the Outlander's choice at Iokath. Regardless if we're talking pipe dreams though, ideally I would've kept Vinn Atrius. However I would have a 2-part short story releasing before Nathema to familiarize ourselves with the character, the Order of ZIldrog and explain how GEMINI-16 manages to spy all of the Eternal Alliance at once. Perhaps if LucasFilm allowed even a short comic books series covering the Order of Zildrog up until the point where they find Zildrog and the Outlander invades their "sanctuary".

 

My point is that I don't find Vinn Atrius to be a compelling villain or character in the slightest. I have said before and I'll say it again, illogical evil because crazy type chatacters suck IMO. He was a generic throwaway villain of the week when he could have been much more. His "revenge" isn't compelling to me at all because it isn't based on reality unless you play a DS mass murderer. If you like him, fine you can like him all you want but I'm tired of shallow and illogical villains shoved in briefly so you have someone to kill.

[Fallensouls]

You can thank the people screaming about how the Alliance stuff sucks and that Star Wars can only be Empire vs Republic for the destruction of the Alliance and us returning to Republic vs Empire. Personally I never cared which type/faction of story we got, I just wanted things to be good and make sense.

 

The Sith die out and the republic wins why continue that story?

 

Yea I agree obviously Bioware has yet again underestimated how many people really did like the eternal throne stuff and wanted that to continue. They never poll the players in game to get a true measurement and it usually costs them many subs. Bioware keeps listening to a few on the forums over the majority.. Just like year one and that whole fiasco and the other Galactic command debacle, they keep on making big mistakes and its costing them money.

 

I can tell you majority of my guild ( which is a pretty good size guild) hates the ending of Nathema and will be very unhappy if the story continues in this direction. I mean seriously Lucas films is not giving us good Star Wars Stories and most of us look to Bioware to do that, and in the past it was great. Natheman has been a huge let down, especially the ending.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Fallensouls

[LordDelectus]

Agreed. Lots of opinions, and this is entertainment so it is going to be subjective.

 

I very much enjoyed the Eternal Empire storyline. The Unknown Regions where largely an unexplored area of lore that yielded some fun mystery. I liked the idea of Iokath and to an Extent, the Eternal Empire. The Valkorian/Vitiate stuff needed more direct explanation from Boyd.

 

I found the traitor storyline and Nathema Conspiracy to simply be really sloppy storytelling that complicated things immensely. The ending was terrible and I frankly never cared for the concept of the Gravestone to start. Defying physics on that level breaks my suspension of disbelief.

 

I have no idea what is canonical now. Who is alive or dead. I assume all the characters that could have been killed will receive nare a passing glance of attention. MIA NPC's that showed up in the final flashpoint...what a total waste. Lots of wasted story potential.

 

Boyd really needs to write a post to prove to us this was all intentional and part of a cohesive story, unless parts are being excluded for development, later. Right now the story looks about as well thought out as anything Disney would have produced and that my friends is shameful.

 

I am looking forward to the next chapter, though I do need to know why the Outlander is not immediately a target of assassination by both the Republic and Empire following the destruction of the Sith fleet. Powerful personalities like that are generally not trusted by the power-hungry folks once subjected by them.

[IoNonSoEVero]

As nice as it was to get some class story/choice personalization in Nathema, IMHO it came at a very high price. 18 different NPCs, some of whom were fan favorites, all killed off/precluded from having any significant role in the future. They nearly completely cleaned house.

[Ardrossan]

What I liked best about Nathema was what made the least sense: the cameos. I've only run it on my SW, mind.

 

It makes sense that guys like Mortis would be pissed that a SW would turn down the chance to be Emperor of Zakuul to run space-NATO. It certainly makes sense that Baras [if you kept him alive for some reason] would want revenge and take any deal to get it. What doesn't make sense is that they'd join this scheme run by a droid and a crazed ex-horizon guard, where they do nothing except record some gloating lines and then get suckered into stepping into a machine that uses them as fuel to resurrect a giant robot head.

 

I mean, I actually felt BAD for Baras. Taking the option to let him live really was DS if this is how he ends up going.

 

OTOH, I would have actually liked to kill them. You're not really killing them when you break their control box, they're already fuel at that point and they don't have any witty final words to throw at you.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I didn't keep Baras alive on any of my SWs but ended up with him on the SW that had been created with an Outlander token. This is awful but I laughed and laughed when he ended up in the machine. He'd been outfoxed. I felt the same about Zash. I couldn't think of a better ending for her, after all her machinations.

 

I felt that most of the cameos were really, really good. One or two I would have switched. But there were some characters I was hoping we'd see again in the main story and it was sad to lose them like that.

[FlameYOL]

I didn't keep Baras alive on any of my SWs but ended up with him on the SW that had been created with an Outlander token. This is awful but I laughed and laughed when he ended up in the machine. He'd been outfoxed. I felt the same about Zash. I couldn't think of a better ending for her, after all her machinations.

 

I felt that most of the cameos were really, really good. One or two I would have switched. But there were some characters I was hoping we'd see again in the main story and it was sad to lose them like that.

 

Agreed, some cameos had some good emotional weight to them. Others not so much.

[Ardrossan]

I didn't keep Baras alive on any of my SWs but ended up with him on the SW that had been created with an Outlander token. This is awful but I laughed and laughed when he ended up in the machine. He'd been outfoxed. I felt the same about Zash. I couldn't think of a better ending for her, after all her machinations.

 

I felt that most of the cameos were really, really good. One or two I would have switched. But there were some characters I was hoping we'd see again in the main story and it was sad to lose them like that.

 

Ah, mine was also an outlander token. I was puzzled by that because the tokens usually default by faction alignment [LS for pub, DS for imp] for story choices, but sparing Baras is an LS choice. Or rather, it was an LS choice at the time, but given his fate it sure looks like a DS choice from hindsight.

[Nefla]

Agreed. Lots of opinions, and this is entertainment so it is going to be subjective.

 

I very much enjoyed the Eternal Empire storyline. The Unknown Regions where largely an unexplored area of lore that yielded some fun mystery. I liked the idea of Iokath and to an Extent, the Eternal Empire. The Valkorian/Vitiate stuff needed more direct explanation from Boyd.

 

I found the traitor storyline and Nathema Conspiracy to simply be really sloppy storytelling that complicated things immensely. The ending was terrible and I frankly never cared for the concept of the Gravestone to start. Defying physics on that level breaks my suspension of disbelief.

 

I have no idea what is canonical now. Who is alive or dead. I assume all the characters that could have been killed will receive nare a passing glance of attention. MIA NPC's that showed up in the final flashpoint...what a total waste. Lots of wasted story potential.

 

Boyd really needs to write a post to prove to us this was all intentional and part of a cohesive story, unless parts are being excluded for development, later. Right now the story looks about as well thought out as anything Disney would have produced and that my friends is shameful.

 

I am looking forward to the next chapter, though I do need to know why the Outlander is not immediately a target of assassination by both the Republic and Empire following the destruction of the Sith fleet. Powerful personalities like that are generally not trusted by the power-hungry folks once subjected by them.

Yeah, if it weren't for the fact that Theron is my #1 husbando and that the storyline lets us become engaged to him I would have been much more disgruntled.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Ah, mine was also an outlander token. I was puzzled by that because the tokens usually default by faction alignment [LS for pub, DS for imp] for story choices, but sparing Baras is an LS choice. Or rather, it was an LS choice at the time, but given his fate it sure looks like a DS choice from hindsight.

 

I was really confused by that. I remember sparing Baras being a LS choice, too. All of the other decisions for my Outlander token - Sith Warrior seemed DS. She has DS Jaesa and when she met Vette, Vette was unhappy to see her and told her off. The conversation implied that the SW had never removed Vette's collar and had mistreated her. So seeing Baras show up was really a surprise.

[Swingkittie]

Yeah, if it weren't for the fact that Theron is my #1 husbando and that the storyline lets us become engaged to him I would have been much more disgruntled.

 

Agree 100%. It's the only reason I will even do this story arc. Oh and also for some decorations.

[LordDelectus]

Definitely. I still think the logic of the traitor storyline with Theron was a mess. But the final scenes of it (assuming he was your romance) made it totally worthwhile.

 

I will be very upset if Theron and Lana are not significant, ongoing presences moving forward.

 

 

Agree 100%. It's the only reason I will even do this story arc. Oh and also for some decorations.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Agree 100%. It's the only reason I will even do this story arc. Oh and also for some decorations.

 

The Lana proposal and the deco and armor drops are the only reasons I'll be bringing any more characters through. Most of the Copero and Nathema decos are really nice, and I've held on to some of the armor for some of my toons. I've played through the last two flashpoints again specifically to get more decos.

 

Whatever one can say about the rest of the flashpoints and story arc, those two proposal scenes are really sweet. Actually the romance content with Lana and Theron in general from Iokath to Nathema, and the supportive letters that all the LIs send after Umbara were well done IMHO, even if I hate the rest of it.

[SilverWF]

The whole KOTFE/KOTET story is just bad for MMO.

It's perfect for single-player game, but extremely bad for MMO.

[Nefla]

The whole KOTFE/KOTET story is just bad for MMO.

It's perfect for single-player game, but extremely bad for MMO.

 

The fact that SWtOR is basically a single player BioWare RPG with optional MMO aspects is the only reason I play it. Your typical MMO with heavy combat focus and story/characters tacked on as an afterthought if at all is of zero interest to me.

[SilverWF]

The fact that SWtOR is basically a single player BioWare RPG with optional MMO aspects is the only reason I play it. Your typical MMO with heavy combat focus and story/characters tacked on as an afterthought if at all is of zero interest to me.

 

I am player since beta, so don't sell this BS to me please.

This IS MMO, no matter what fresh-joined thinks about that. At least, it WAS MMO... There was even open-world big fights and just gank...

 

Also, even original stroy was bad, because... At start I was just an operative, just a screw in the BIG machine, discovering some stuff. But I've ended as... Commander of the Imperial intelligence. At Knight - as Emperor's Wrath. Etc.

A full fleet of the top-managers, so funny. Not.

 

But KOTFE was able to beat even this: a full fleet of the Emperors! WUT?!

They completely have no idea - what is a good story for the MMO game...

[FlameYOL]

I am player since beta, so don't sell this BS to me please.

This IS MMO, no matter what fresh-joined thinks about that. At least, it WAS MMO... There was even open-world big fights and just gank...

 

Also, even original stroy was bad, because... At start I was just an operative, just a screw in the BIG machine, discovering some stuff. But I've ended as... Commander of the Imperial intelligence. At Knight - as Emperor's Wrath. Etc.

A full fleet of the top-managers, so funny. Not.

 

But KOTFE was able to beat even this: a full fleet of the Emperors! WUT?!

They completely have no idea - what is a good story for the MMO game...

 

This is an MMO with a heavy focus on story though, regardless of your own feelings on whether or not its good. Which is entirely subjective. Regardless of our own feelings on the matter the game always had a story focus to it.

[Nefla]

I am player since beta, so don't sell this BS to me please.

This IS MMO, no matter what fresh-joined thinks about that. At least, it WAS MMO... There was even open-world big fights and just gank...

 

Also, even original stroy was bad, because... At start I was just an operative, just a screw in the BIG machine, discovering some stuff. But I've ended as... Commander of the Imperial intelligence. At Knight - as Emperor's Wrath. Etc.

A full fleet of the top-managers, so funny. Not.

 

But KOTFE was able to beat even this: a full fleet of the Emperors! WUT?!

They completely have no idea - what is a good story for the MMO game...

 

LMAO "fresh joined?" Sweetie I've been playing since a few months after launch so you can keep your illiterate assumptions. You can barely string a sentence together and we're supposed to accept your opinion on story quality? Ha! The fact is that BioWare has always been a story focused, character focused, single player RPG studio and this game was more of the same but with generic MMO elements tacked on. The single player story and the companion characters have always been the draw of this game period. If you want some generic MMO go play WoW or something. Why are you randomly wandering into story threads and whining anyway? Go whine and cry at someone who cares.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Nefla

[SilverWF]

Your butthurt is priceless Do you have "The Founder" title? Not? Then leave your cool stories to someone "who cares", fresh meat.

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/overview

Does Bioware knows, that SWTOR is not MMO? Prob, they will be amazed from this revealing

 

And if you are so focused on the story, care to explain: why there is a full fleet of the Emperors? And why nobody wants to knee before you and serve?

[FlameYOL]

Your butthurt is priceless Do you have "The Founder" title? Not? Then leave your cool stories to someone "who cares", fresh meat.

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/overview

Does Bioware knows, that SWTOR is not MMO? Prob, they will be amazed from this revealing

 

Taken directly from the link you've provided

"Define your Star Wars Saga

Choose from one of eight iconic roles and become the hero of your personal Star Wars saga—an interactive storyline with cinematic dialogue and full voiceover for all in-game characters."

As for your questions, I can't really understand them. Apologies, English is my 2nd language but I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

 

And if you are so focused on the story, care to explain: why there is a full fleet of the Emperors? And why nobody wants to knee before you and serve?

The Eternal Fleet wasn't created by Tenebrae, AKA The Emperor, he merely found it and used it. Nobody wants to kneel before us and serve? Despite the huge losses the Eternal Alliance has suffered after Nathema there are still loyal followers, the Commander still maintains the base and there are still ships that patrol Wild Space on the Eternal Alliance's name.

[Nefla]

Your butthurt is priceless Do you have "The Founder" title? Not? Then leave your cool stories to someone "who cares", fresh meat.

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/overview

Does Bioware knows, that SWTOR is not MMO? Prob, they will be amazed from this revealing

 

And if you are so focused on the story, care to explain: why there is a full fleet of the Emperors? And why nobody wants to knee before you and serve?

 

If you wanna talk about butthurt, look in the mirror kid. Why don't you go make a thread whining about your generic MMO aspects and stop ************ and moaning in story threads hm? Maybe go whine to your mom about it and spare normal people your nonsensical ranting.

 

Your moronic gibberish is hard to understand but I assume you're asking why I'm not asking other players to bow to my character or something? Because larping or whatever is an MMO aspect and again I have zero interest in that. I only have interest in the single player story and character aspects, you know, the aspects BioWare are actually good at? You can't honestly tell me that you play SWtOR for the generic MMO combat and grind right? That would just be laughable Out of so many innovative games you choose the extremely boring and generic one whose one and only saving grace is the great single player story stuff and then you...ignore the only good parts.

 

Or have you even been playing this game at all? You don't seem to know much about it, what did you just play for a few weeks during beta, forget about it for years, and then come back now to cry and whine? Seriously, go away.