A perplexing thing

[Seireeni]

Personally I don't care whether a NPC dies or not, but I want to be able to play my characters the way their personalities work. It's fine if a NPC is rude to my Darth Nox -- she probably deserves it, as she has little respect for life -- , but my Nox does not tolerate disrespect, nor would they let an enemy willingly escape.

 

Thankfully she took Ashara back, as she didn't see a reason to torture someone who has served her for years faithfully, because that scene where SI shocks her, listens to her being rude to the SI and then just stands there watching her leave is horrible. I don't know if it was written that way or if it was written as "Ashara manages to escape" and that didn't communicate well to the people who actually did the cutscene, but the result was pretty bad.

 

As for Koth... I wouldn't have minded if he had escaped, too, but it would have been out of character for some of my characters (aforementioned Darth Nox in particular) to let him go.

 

In short, I don't need kill options, I just want attack options!

[IoNonSoEVero]

Problem with Koth for some people, they can't accept that he has his own ideals and doesn't like to see innocent people killed and he states it clearly how he feels when you do this.

 

I feel like some characters are held to higher standards and have less excused than other characters, overall. I've seen characters raked over the coals here for specific things when nobody ever mentions that other characters made the exact same mistake at the same time, or behaved the same way.

 

It's always ironic to me that people say they want the characters to speak their minds and have their own opinions instead of going along with the PC all the time - but then when companions do speak up and argue, they don't like that either. Koth can come across as a bit abrasive, but he sticks to his principles and speaks up, and as long as the PC doesn't commit numerous acts of carnage against civilians, he stays around.

 

I feel like Koth's POV was important, too. For the citizens of Zakuul, the Outlander's basically a terrorist, since they killed Valkorion and Valkorion never did anything wrong to them and they didn't see what he did to the Empire/Republic.

 

For Quinn, I do wish they'd left a way in the game for a Sith Warrior to get rid of him after the Quinncindent. I don't think people should have been punished by losing their only healer for it, either. IMHO my Sith Warrior would have kicked him off her crew immediately and would never trust him or want to work with him again, even if it was years later. So I do wish that they'd left in a 'reject without killing' option instead of just catering to the edgelords who wanted to see him die as horribly as possible.

 

WIth Ashara, I just think some of the two-minute returns, including hers, seem to have been written without a lot of regard or knowledge of the characters. The way both the Inquisitor and Ashara behave in that reunion is weird, whether it's a SI who was on good terms or one who hated her.

 

But you've mentioned the biggest issue which I think needs to keep being mentioned: kill options take the character out of the story regardless if someone wants to keep them. If they were better about keeping companions like Koth, Vette and others alive for those who kept them alive, it would not be so much of an issue. What others do in their game shouldn't affect mine, but it does.

Edited September 18, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[aerockyul]

Replaying DA:I really made me appreciate the choices regarding companions. They must have benefited from not having idiots yelling at them for letting them get rid of one but then crying about the consequences. We get mad about the Quinncident but the same thing happened with Ashara. There's even an outright option to kill her still baked in and somehow there she is on our ship.

I just find the reasoning for the hatred pretty stupid considering what you do to her. She certainly was not on Taris hoping to be forced into service with a chaotic stupid Sith. Quinn chose his actions. Ashara has no choices her entire existence until you're put into carbonite. Boo hoo that she didn't immediately seek out her chaotic stupid Sith thrall master. And boo hoo she stood up to that nonsense. We get super pissed when we are not given agency in our own story...the hypocrisy is thick there. No one else can have any agency but us...right. But no, anyone who shows agency of their own must die.

[Nefla]

Oh Vette is fine, but you know, when you play a mean Sith you gotta do mean Sith things

 

You know, I never subscribed to this whole "companion hatred" thing. There is just some I like and some i dont like. I don't feel strongly enough about anyone to claim I plain hate them. And only a few I can claim to love.

Plus I'm a big appreciator of underdog writing. There isn't too many games or books where we get to ally with scumbags, cowards and liars, so I'm always gonna enjoy the "questionable" characters like Skadge no matter how much I might despise them would I know them irl, they're kinda a rare occurrence in fiction to have on your side so I tend to embrace the diversity.

If everyone in a book is auntie flower-hat and gramps goodie-two-shoes I'll likely lose interest for lack of internal conflict... Raistlin from Dragonlance series was a great character imo no matter how problematic his character might morally be, the writing is still stellar. And I'm just sad when people cant see the great writing behind a character just because their personalities clash.

 

Anyway, you're right about DA handling companion recruitment far better. And there was several characters who will actually leave or betray you if you haven't been giving them the respect or help they needed. They just feel more alive compared to swtor companions who you just don't have any noticeable effect on in majority of cases in any way.

That's why I can never bring myself to play a 100% DS character, it feels bad man lol. Even when I play a mostly evil character they'll generally be nice or at least professional to their crew.

 

Oh I agree that not all characters should be goody two shoes, I just want the ability to choose if I take them or not. One of the reasons I hate Skadge so much is that he threatens our character into taking him and they do. His recruitment makes our tough as nails BH look like a whimpering coward and we get no say in the matter. Like super LS characters it makes no sense for them to take unrepentant murderers with them, super evil characters who show no mercy, it makes no sense for them to recruit goody two shoes characters or a specific example, a BH who is a ruthless professional who always gets the job done should not be forced to spare Gault, trick the great hunt officials into thinking he's dead, and recruit him into their crew. Many of the forced companions put our characters in OOC mode. And yeah, like you said with DA:O I wish more of the companions would leave or betray you if you treated them like crap or completely made them go against their ideals. Not only would it make the story more realistic but it would make earning that companion's trust mean a lot more than if they had to stick with you "because reasons."

 

 

Replaying DA:I really made me appreciate the choices regarding companions. They must have benefited from not having idiots yelling at them for letting them get rid of one but then crying about the consequences. We get mad about the Quinncident but the same thing happened with Ashara. There's even an outright option to kill her still baked in and somehow there she is on our ship.

I just find the reasoning for the hatred pretty stupid considering what you do to her. She certainly was not on Taris hoping to be forced into service with a chaotic stupid Sith. Quinn chose his actions. Ashara has no choices her entire existence until you're put into carbonite. Boo hoo that she didn't immediately seek out her chaotic stupid Sith thrall master. And boo hoo she stood up to that nonsense. We get super pissed when we are not given agency in our own story...the hypocrisy is thick there. No one else can have any agency but us...right. But no, anyone who shows agency of their own must die.

Yeah I still don't understand all this hate specifically for Ashara recently. Like at worst to me she's whiny and boring and yeah I wish they didn't listen to the idiots who somehow had no clue that killing a character would make that character dead... especially since those people almost certainly don't even play this game anymore.

 

 

Problem with Koth for some people, they can't accept that he has his own ideals and doesn't like to see innocent people killed and he states it clearly how he feels when you do this.

 

Then they can't understand how he can't see how evil Valkorion is. They expect him to change his mind when you tell him that he is evil. So they have decided that since he has his own ideals that they don't like they should kill him and therefore, people like me that either romanced him or have him as friend get to lose him in their story because they have a problem with his ideals.

 

As far as Ashara, I wouldn't have minded it so much if they hadn't just had my sorceress stand there with Ashara giving my sorceress an attitude and my sorceress doing nothing but watching her leave. Sorry that is not the style of my dark side (5) sorceress. I don't mean she has to die but it would have been more in line with a dark side inquisitor to at least remind Ashara of their power instead of just standing there which is out of character for at least my sorceress.

 

As far as Quinn, 10 years is a bit long to hold onto a grudge (and I haven't romanced him) . Just sending him to jail would been what my warrior would have done (haven't ran a warrior through this yet). She wouldn't have trusted him but after 10 years it is a bit late in the game to kill him for that one incident. It would have made more sense when that happened and in beta you could have done it but people had a fit so they changed it.

 

And I am not a fan of the way they handled the companions that can be killed because those of us that keep them around have them completely out of the story because there was a kill option.

It feels to me like a lot of people hate characters who question them, go against their decisions, speak up against them, etc...they want companions who are boot-lickers so to speak. They expect every companion to just go along with whatever they say and do because they are the player and therefore everything revolves around them but that doesn't make for a realistic story or characters. I think I remember a BioWare employee once saying back when they had an official forums that the characters who were the most popular were 1) Funny and 2) Agreed or went along with everything the player did. It also seems as though female characters usually get off MUCH easier, especially if they're attractive. Like if Koth had done and said everything the same, still betrayed you if you mass murdered people, etc...but instead was female I don't think we'd see anywhere near the hate against her. Men especially are much more inclined to hate a male character than a female character.

[Ardrossan]

That's why I can never bring myself to play a 100% DS character, it feels bad man lol. Even when I play a mostly evil character they'll generally be nice or at least professional to their crew.

 

I've noticed one big problem with GC and light vs dark [which others have also noticed] is that the result of grinding to 300 and doing the expansions basically robs you of the ability to be neutral. There's no longer any point to be as you lose out on the alignment vendors [of dubious value once you get everything worthwhile] and extra GCXP.

 

My Rattataki op played through vanilla as a chaotic neutral soul sister to Kaliyo [even blowing up the black codex at the end]. But by the end of KOTET, she was DS V, because once you hit 70 it actually hurts your GCXP acquisition to switch alignments in order to keep your neutrality, and as well, there isn't really a neutral way to play through the Knights expansions.

 

By the end you're either the MUWAHAHA Ultimate Power emperor/ess, or the secretary general of Space NATO. It galls me that they didn't add a neutral option [ie. "screw Zakuul, that's your mess now, Lana!"]

 

It feels to me like a lot of people hate characters who question them, go against their decisions, speak up against them, etc...they want companions who are boot-lickers so to speak. They expect every companion to just go along with whatever they say and do because they are the player and therefore everything revolves around them but that doesn't make for a realistic story or characters.

 

This at least isn't [purely] a BW screwup, it seems to be an inherent trait for most gamers and game developers. And I'm not speaking as if I'm necessarily superior to that either. Light or Darkside, I always enjoy shooting Torian's idiot friend on DK in the vanilla BH story, for no other reason than he criticizes me.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Ardrossan

[Kiesu]

By the end you're either the MUWAHAHA Ultimate Power emperor/ess, or the secretary general of Space NATO. It galls me that they didn't add a neutral option [ie. "screw Zakuul, that's your mess now, Lana!"]

Ain't it the truth.

If given the chance majority of my characters would have relieved themselves from either position as fast as humanly possible. It was not my interest to rule over the galaxy or play it's babysitter, I made all these individualistic characters because I want to experience them in their natural habitat. Not in this forced scenario of "everyone is suddenly a leader", even my cowardly corrupt sage who in reality was more like Lana's follower than Lana was his follower, he would be a terrible leader!

 

I think I remember a BioWare employee once saying back when they had an official forums that the characters who were the most popular were 1) Funny and 2) Agreed or went along with everything the player did. It also seems as though female characters usually get off MUCH easier, especially if they're attractive. Like if Koth had done and said everything the same, still betrayed you if you mass murdered people, etc...but instead was female I don't think we'd see anywhere near the hate against her. Men especially are much more inclined to hate a male character than a female character.

Interesting! I didn't know about this survey but it sounds about how you would expect.

Generally everyone likes agreeable people, and agreeable people generally like both agreeable and non-agreeable people, but only non-agreeable people don't like other non-agreeable people or even agreeable people in some cases. So any character that is agreeable in nature is more liked than non-agreeable characters.

 

Like, if we look at DA again, Alistair is Funny and Agreeable, he is a popular character. Leliana isn't funny but high in agreeableness, she is well liked. Anders is funny but non-agreeable, he wasn't nearly as popular. Oghren isn't funny and he is low in agreeableness, he is way down there (not that he isn't hilarious, its that the isn't actively trying to be, he is an accidental comedy king). Loghain is very low on agreeableness and isn't that popular either.

 

When it comes to men vs women in popularity you're right. Though men are more comradely, men are also competitive in nature, and men have a primal instinct to protect women, that's just baked in our system.

It has been observed that in a combat situation men are almost 4 times more likely to attempt a suicidal rescue should a female squad mate go down in combat, than they would if the the squad-mate down was male. Men tend to be more rational when in all-male company, and are more likely to turn radical would a woman be present in the situation. Probably sounds sexist but male and female brains just are biologically wired differently in this way. Naturally one can learn or diminish the reactionary effect their brain goes trough, but it is still the first reaction even if sub-conscious.

 

Hence why Morrigan is probably so popular, she was a master of pulling those male-strings, she and Flemeth even admit this it's no joke. It's far more easy for a woman to manipulate man than for a man to manipulate another man.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Kiesu

[Nefla]

Ain't it the truth.

If given the chance majority of my characters would have relieved themselves from either position as fast as humanly possible. It was not my interest to rule over the galaxy or play it's babysitter, I made all these individualistic characters because I want to experience them in their natural habitat. Not in this forced scenario of "everyone is suddenly a leader", even my cowardly corrupt sage who in reality was more like Lana's follower than Lana was his follower, he would be a terrible leader!

 

 

Interesting! I didn't know about this survey but it sounds about how you would expect.

Generally everyone likes agreeable people, and agreeable people generally like both agreeable and non-agreeable people, but only non-agreeable people don't like other non-agreeable people or even agreeable people in some cases. So any character that is agreeable in nature is more liked than non-agreeable characters.

 

Like, if we look at DA again, Alistair is Funny and Agreeable, he is a popular character. Leliana isn't funny but high in agreeableness, she is well liked. Anders is funny but non-agreeable, he wasn't nearly as popular. Oghren isn't funny and he is low in agreeableness, he is way down there (not that he isn't hilarious, its that the isn't actively trying to be, he is an accidental comedy king). Loghain is very low on agreeableness and isn't that popular either.

 

When it comes to men vs women in popularity you're right. Though men are more comradely, men are also competitive in nature, and men have a primal instinct to protect women, that's just baked in our system.

It has been observed that in a combat situation men are almost 4 times more likely to attempt a suicidal rescue should a female squad mate go down in combat, than they would if the the squad-mate down was male. Men tend to be more rational when in all-male company, and are more likely to turn radical would a woman be present in the situation. Probably sounds sexist but male and female brains just are biologically wired differently in this way. Naturally one can learn or diminish the reactionary effect their brain goes trough, but it is still the first reaction even if sub-conscious.

 

Hence why Morrigan is probably so popular, she was a master of pulling those male-strings, she and Flemeth even admit this it's no joke. It's far more easy for a woman to manipulate man than for a man to manipulate another man.

Yeah, when I started playing this kind of game where the companions react to your personality and choices (rather than JRPGs where there's a set character and dialogue and interactions) I really didn't like characters who disagreed with me either. To use DA again, I HATED Morrigan and Sten at first because I played goody two shoes characters and they disapproved of everything I did and basically told me I sucked lol plus as a straight woman Morrigan wasn't trying to seduce me and it wouldn't have worked if she had. What was the line she said? Something like "men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: 1) That she's stupid and 2) That she finds him attractive" something like that. Eventually in subsequent playthroughs I played different types of characters of differing morals and opinions and motivations and I got to know all of the characters more and I ended up loving both Sten and Morrigan as well. I really miss characters reacting to your choices and how you treat them and leaving you or even trying to kill you.

 

I didn't know the exact statistic, but I've also heard that male soldiers are much more likely to attempt a suicidal rescue of a female comrade and as you said, it makes sense as a primal instinct for the continuity of the species.

[rumpol]

I don't get it either, or how the new meme has started that every companion thread needs to turn into a "bash Ashara" thread.

 

It's simply pure spitefulness. They are hoping that because their fav comp got a kill option that if they mention it often enough perhaps BW will listen and wreck the comps they don't like so others suffer too.

[Kiesu]

Yeah, when I started playing this kind of game where the companions react to your personality and choices (rather than JRPGs where there's a set character and dialogue and interactions) I really didn't like characters who disagreed with me either. To use DA again, I HATED Morrigan and Sten at first because I played goody two shoes characters and they disapproved of everything I did and basically told me I sucked lol plus as a straight woman Morrigan wasn't trying to seduce me and it wouldn't have worked if she had. What was the line she said? Something like "men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: 1) That she's stupid and 2) That she finds him attractive" something like that. Eventually in subsequent playthroughs I played different types of characters of differing morals and opinions and motivations and I got to know all of the characters more and I ended up loving both Sten and Morrigan as well. I really miss characters reacting to your choices and how you treat them and leaving you or even trying to kill you.

 

I didn't know the exact statistic, but I've also heard that male soldiers are much more likely to attempt a suicidal rescue of a female comrade and as you said, it makes sense as a primal instinct for the continuity of the species.

I rarely find myself hating anyone, even if I think someone is going about their thing waaay wrong (in my opinion) but I can still see where they're coming from and I can't really blame them and uhh... I'm pretty high on agreeableness myself (not scoring so high on the funny scale, I'd be a sub-par sidekick lol), I'm so interested in people's motives and their mindsets I almost want to keep people I don't agree with around so I can learn why they tick so differently than me. Am I being weird? Maybe.

 

Though, I really had my wires crossed with Morrigan for a long time when first playing DAO, she could be so mean at Alistair I was just mad at her petty insults half of the time. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't attracted by her all the same, she was very smart and I couldn't understand her need to pick on Alistair all the time. It was a very interesting mental conflict for me personally. I wanted to defend my bro but you know, there was truth in her insults, but did she really need to bring them up like that? Ugh I love it when the writing is so good even party banter makes you think and question everything and everyone, even yourself.

 

Haha I remember that line. And I remember rising my finger ready to protest to it, but... I had nothing, she as painfully right and I just didn't want to admit it.

 

Uuf this is getting off topic though I just reeeally loved DAO.

[Ardrossan]

Uuf this is getting off topic though I just reeeally loved DAO.

 

I didn't. I played for awhile, up to becoming a warden I think, but just never could get into it. I felt the game mechanics were too clunky.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Ardrossan

[Kiesu]

I didn't. I played for awhile, up to becoming a warden I think, but just never could get into it. I felt the game mechanics were too clunky.

I had the same issue with Mass Effect 1, the combat system was so bad I put the game away for 5+ years before finally playing trough it grinding my teeth. I played DAO as a top-down game which I played a lot of at the time so it was pretty easy to get into for me.

[Nefla]

Since I play games for story and character related things, combat/game mechanics have never made me dislike or put away a game if the story and characters are good (otherwise I'd never play SWtOR, I hate boring rotation based MMO combat). If a game has a meh story or characters though, I'm not going to slog through bad gameplay for a crap story reward lol.

 

I rarely find myself hating anyone, even if I think someone is going about their thing waaay wrong (in my opinion) but I can still see where they're coming from and I can't really blame them and uhh... I'm pretty high on agreeableness myself (not scoring so high on the funny scale, I'd be a sub-par sidekick lol), I'm so interested in people's motives and their mindsets I almost want to keep people I don't agree with around so I can learn why they tick so differently than me. Am I being weird? Maybe.

 

Though, I really had my wires crossed with Morrigan for a long time when first playing DAO, she could be so mean at Alistair I was just mad at her petty insults half of the time. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't attracted by her all the same, she was very smart and I couldn't understand her need to pick on Alistair all the time. It was a very interesting mental conflict for me personally. I wanted to defend my bro but you know, there was truth in her insults, but did she really need to bring them up like that? Ugh I love it when the writing is so good even party banter makes you think and question everything and everyone, even yourself.

 

Haha I remember that line. And I remember rising my finger ready to protest to it, but... I had nothing, she as painfully right and I just didn't want to admit it.

 

Uuf this is getting off topic though I just reeeally loved DAO.

I thought it was hilarious that Morrigan tries her mockery on Sten but he trolls her back so hard she's dumbfounded and speechless lol.

 

These days I generally at least like if not love most characters as long as they have a good amount of development (so in SWtOR not the late game companions with little interaction or story relevance like Yuun, Broonmark, Rusk, etc...the "who are you again?" brigade) for me to HATE a character they pretty much either have to :

 

-Be a completely garbage person that I'd hate in real life without funny campishly evil scenes/dialogue to make you overlook it because you're entertained

-Be irredeemably annoying and with little to no depth

-Have a sense that the character is a writer's pet and that the writer can't imagine that you wouldn't love the character, or want to be their bestest friend or lover like they feel shoehorned in at every turn even when it doesn't fit

-The companion in some way forces your protagonist to act OOC

[Damask_Rose]

I just find the reasoning for the hatred pretty stupid considering what you do to her. She certainly was not on Taris hoping to be forced into service with a chaotic stupid Sith. Quinn chose his actions. Ashara has no choices her entire existence until you're put into carbonite.

 

I fail to see where Quinn had any more choices than Ashara did. His choices boiled down to do what Baras says or die by Baras's hand. People hate him because he chose not to die by Baras's hand.

 

It's simply pure spitefulness. They are hoping that because their fav comp got a kill option that if they mention it often enough perhaps BW will listen and wreck the comps they don't like so others suffer too.

 

I really don't think anyone wants Ashara to die because they want her fans to suffer. I think it's mostly about there not being a proper dark side option. In a role playing game, it's kind of important to have choices that reflect different types of characters. Had there been a proper dark side option that did not result in her death people wouldn't have been nearly as upset. Where you see a kill option as ruining her character, others see the lack of an appropriate response to be ruining their character, which in my opinion is a bigger problem. Besides, as a class specific alert she's just as invalid for a spot in the main story as if she were killable.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I don't think everyone wants kill options to hurt other players, but I do think that some do. Their companion was killed, so they think it's fair to spread the misery by asking for another player's favorite to be killed off. That doesn't do anything to bring their companion back and just results in more unhappy players, but IMHO it is where some people's heads are.

 

In terms of Ashara, I think the reunion was OOC for everyone. I want to be clear that I don't think it was written well for either light or dark side inquisitors, but it confounds me that people will ask for a kill option for Ashara and not Andronikos. Andronikos is raiding Alliance ships but apparently doesn't know how to turn on the Holonet or ascertain who the Alliance's leader is, even though they've had a lot of publicity since the end of KOTFE, and the end of KOTET shows them talking to the entire galaxy? IMHO a true DS Inquisitor would have no patience for failure or ignorance like that, much less damage to their Alliance's property, and would kill off Andronikos.

 

I like him and I'm certainly not asking for a kill option, just pointing out the unevenness there. Plus the irony that they want a kill option for Ashara for speaking up...while wanting characters to speak up.

Edited September 20, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[casirabit]

I don't think everyone wants kill options to hurt other players, but I do think that some do. Their companion was killed, so they think it's fair to spread the misery by asking for another player's favorite to be killed off. That doesn't do anything to bring their companion back and just results in more unhappy players, but IMHO it is where some people's heads are.

 

In terms of Ashara, I think the reunion was OOC for everyone. I want to be clear that I don't think it was written well for either light or dark side inquisitors, but it confounds me that people will ask for a kill option for Ashara and not Andronikos. Andronikos is raiding Alliance ships but apparently doesn't know how to turn on the Holonet or ascertain who the Alliance's leader is, even though they've had a lot of publicity since the end of KOTFE, and the end of KOTET shows them talking to the entire galaxy? IMHO a true DS Inquisitor would have no patience for failure or ignorance like that, much less damage to their Alliance's property, and would kill off Andronikos.

 

I like him and I'm certainly not asking for a kill option, just pointing out the unevenness there. Plus the irony that they want a kill option for Ashara for speaking up...while wanting characters to speak up.

 

Did you romance him on a inquisitor? If you didn't then you didn't learn the true reason he was raiding the ships.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIqw75TkKbY

[Damask_Rose]

I like him and I'm certainly not asking for a kill option, just pointing out the unevenness there. Plus the irony that they want a kill option for Ashara for speaking up...while wanting characters to speak up.

 

I don't have an Inquisitor in FE/ET, so I hadn't seen either recruitment, so I just went and watched both of their returns.

 

Andronikos was clearly happy to see you after he had been tearing the galaxy apart looking for you. Yes, the fact that he didin't know you defeated Vaylin doesn't speak well for his information gathering, but, for me at least, his attitude and actions make that forgivable.

 

Ashara, on the other hand, is unhappy to see you and was actively avoiding you even though she knew you were back. She then challenges you by claiming to be an equal and then fails to prove it. In the Sith hierarchy, when an apprentice challenges their master they are expected to prove it or die trying. The Inquisitor looks like a major pushover by letting her saunter away. I can see why people found that to be so OOC for a dark side Sith.

 

So people's reactions to their returns are uneven because they aren't comparable. That and love or hate, people have never cared as much about Andronikos as they do about Ashara.

 

And I fail to see any irony in wanting to have a kill option, or at least an attempted kill option. People aren't upset that Ashara "spoke up", what ever that means, they are up set that their apprentice challenged them and their character was given no opportunity to respond like a Sith would.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Damask_Rose

[IoNonSoEVero]

Did you romance him on a inquisitor? If you didn't then you didn't learn the true reason he was raiding the ships.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIqw75TkKbY

 

No, but I did see the YouTube video that Dulfy posted a while ago (a romanced SI who breaks up with him). He says something very similar if you haven't romanced him, that he was trying to find and rescue you and didn't know Vaylin was gone. IMHO it's still not a valid excuse for a very DS SI. The Commander is all over the Holonet so Andronikos should have been able to find out and stop raiding the ships.

 

In the Sith stories there are plenty of times that people are killed or zapped with lightning for making mistakes that are far less than raiding and damaging ships. So if one wanted a kill or attack option for Ashara for being sassy, I can't see why they wouldn't want the same for someone who damaged their ships. I think it's more that people just don't care for Ashara.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I don't have an Inquisitor in FE/ET, so I hadn't seen either recruitment, so I just went and watched both of their returns.

 

Andronikos was clearly happy to see you after he had been tearing the galaxy apart looking for you. Yes, the fact that he didin't know you defeated Vaylin doesn't speak well for his information gathering, but, for me at least, his attitude and actions make that forgivable.

 

Ashara, on the other hand, is unhappy to see you and was actively avoiding you even though she knew you were back. She then challenges you by claiming to be an equal and then fails to prove it. In the Sith hierarchy, when an apprentice challenges their master they are expected to prove it or die trying. The Inquisitor looks like a major pushover by letting her saunter away. I can see why people found that to be so OOC for a dark side Sith.

 

So people's reactions to their returns are uneven because they aren't comparable. That and love or hate, people have never cared as much about Andronikos as they do about Ashara.

 

And I fail to see any irony in wanting to have a kill option, or at least an attempted kill option. People aren't upset that Ashara "spoke up", what ever that means, they are up set that their apprentice challenged them and their character was given no opportunity to respond like a Sith would.

 

I think it's more that it's more that some people are willing to make excuses for a male LI, and they just don't like Ashara.

 

As I said, I don't like the reunion, I think it's very poorly written and I don't think it fits for any SI of any alignment. But Ashara isn't challenging anyone. In the Sith hierarchy, when someone puts up a challenge it's for a reason - to get a title, a Dark Council seat, win the Kaggath, to save face, whatever.

 

Ashara isn't trying to take anything from the SI. She clearly seems to want to be left alone to live her life without the Jedi or the Sith interfering, and would be happiest if they just said, "bye" and walked out the door again.

 

She's also a character who had her life controlled by the Jedi and then was more or less stuck with the SI's crew. So she didn't want to go back to the SI or run to the Alliance. Why should she have?

 

And the "challenge" is speaking up. People keep saying they don't want companions who smile and nod and go along with everything. Ashara doesn't. She's not happy to see you, she wants to be left alone, and she doesn't respect the SI in the reunion. She's speaking her own mind and isn't being a yes-woman. But people take umbrage to that too.

 

I actually do see why a DS Inquisitor would want to at least give Ashara a good zap in that scene, or kill her, but again, I think they'd also be angry enough to punish Andronikos.

Edited September 20, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Nefla]

Did you romance him on a inquisitor? If you didn't then you didn't learn the true reason he was raiding the ships.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIqw75TkKbY

 

Well, with my male inquisitor he obviously didn't say the part about "nobody steals my girl and gets away with it" but he did say that he heard the fleet dragged him away and figured he owed him a rescue. So even though the details are different I consider it to be the same reason.

[Nefla]

I don't have an Inquisitor in FE/ET, so I hadn't seen either recruitment, so I just went and watched both of their returns.

 

Andronikos was clearly happy to see you after he had been tearing the galaxy apart looking for you. Yes, the fact that he didin't know you defeated Vaylin doesn't speak well for his information gathering, but, for me at least, his attitude and actions make that forgivable.

 

Ashara, on the other hand, is unhappy to see you and was actively avoiding you even though she knew you were back. She then challenges you by claiming to be an equal and then fails to prove it. In the Sith hierarchy, when an apprentice challenges their master they are expected to prove it or die trying. The Inquisitor looks like a major pushover by letting her saunter away. I can see why people found that to be so OOC for a dark side Sith.

 

So people's reactions to their returns are uneven because they aren't comparable. That and love or hate, people have never cared as much about Andronikos as they do about Ashara.

 

And I fail to see any irony in wanting to have a kill option, or at least an attempted kill option. People aren't upset that Ashara "spoke up", what ever that means, they are up set that their apprentice challenged them and their character was given no opportunity to respond like a Sith would.

I mean, if you're that DS that you will kill anyone who claims to be on equal footing as you then I'd think someone trashing your fleet would more than qualify for a DS kill option. Raiding your ships and stealing your stuff seems like a much bigger transgression to me than not wanting to be an underling anymore.

[Damask_Rose]

I mean, if you're that DS that you will kill anyone who claims to be on equal footing as you then I'd think someone trashing your fleet would more than qualify for a DS kill option. Raiding your ships and stealing your stuff seems like a much bigger transgression to me than not wanting to be an underling anymore.

 

Ashara isn't just anyone. She is your apprentice. And in traditional Sith master/apprentice relationships telling your master that you are now their equal is a challenge and challenges are met with duels. It's all well and good for LS Sith who were championing for reforms to ignore her behavior and declaration, but it is perfectly understandable that people who play full on dark side Sith don't think they should have to as well. Sith are not know for being tolerant and nurturing to wayward apprentices. Try playing the scene out as if the Inquisitor is Emperor Palpatine and Ashara is Darth Vader. Does it feel right to you? It doesn't to me.

 

I do think Andronikos's bad information gathering warranted at least a snarky remark, if not a shock, but I think his good intentions and good attitude earn him a pass on death. If Andronikos didn't care what had happened to you and he was just out plundering, I think plenty of people would have been calling for his head.

[casirabit]

I mean, if you're that DS that you will kill anyone who claims to be on equal footing as you then I'd think someone trashing your fleet would more than qualify for a DS kill option. Raiding your ships and stealing your stuff seems like a much bigger transgression to me than not wanting to be an underling anymore.

 

Not really. He's a pirate and that is something a pirate is going to do. He at least had been looking for you. My smuggler would be doing the same thing. As far as Ashara she is supposed to be your apprentice and claiming to be on equal to your sith master is a challenge and the way they handled it for a DS inquisitor was wrong. It made the DS inquisitor look stupid just standing there and doing nothing when Ashara was acting like she was.

 

I have done enough roleplay on the sith that I know better to make a comment like that to a person that was supposed to be my master not to expect some kind of reaction from them (i.e. duel). While I don't think it necessary to kill her (as I am sick and tired of all the killing of companions and removing them from everyone's story even those of us that didn't kill them) just allowing her to walk out without some sort of show of power is out of character for my dark side sorceress.

Edited September 20, 2018 by casirabit

[IoNonSoEVero]

Not really. He's a pirate and that is something a pirate is going to do. He at least had been looking for you. .

 

But DS Sith do not tolerate failure or cluelessness. Andronikos didn't find you, and he also messed with your fleet. A DS Sith's response to "well, I was trying to find you" would probably be, "But you didn't," followed by a Force choke. They'd blame Andronikos for the damage he caused to the ships, for not finding them, and for not knowing they were in charge, and they'd react accordingly.

[Lunafox]

But DS Sith do not tolerate failure or cluelessness. Andronikos didn't find you, and he also messed with your fleet. A DS Sith's response to "well, I was trying to find you" would probably be, "But you didn't," followed by a Force choke. They'd blame Andronikos for the damage he caused to the ships, for not finding them, and for not knowing they were in charge, and they'd react accordingly.

 

 

Well, my dark side V Nox, was very happy to see her pirate hubby back. Love makes a person overlook things. My Nox always hated Ashara and would've dropped her cold dead on the spot, if she'd had the chance. She loves Andronikos, so she got what her 'lunkhead pirate' was doing.

[Lunafox]

Not really. He's a pirate and that is something a pirate is going to do. He at least had been looking for you. My smuggler would be doing the same thing. As far as Ashara she is supposed to be your apprentice and claiming to be on equal to your sith master is a challenge and the way they handled it for a DS inquisitor was wrong. It made the DS inquisitor look stupid just standing there and doing nothing when Ashara was acting like she was.

 

 

It's Ashara's trying to claim that she's your equal, after you've defeated the Emperor and the evilest beings in the galaxy, while she's been doing...what? Spooning gruel to orphans? It's ridiculous that she makes such a claim. She is not and never will be the SI's equal. Ever. And you're right, they handled it all wrong. They got this so-called writer to write the returns, who likely watched all of 10 minutes worth of youtube vids to create the returns. Corso's was atrociously awful for one. But I digress. The SI should've had the chance to accept her, reject her, or outright kill her dead. That would've covered it.