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Suggested 6.0 abilities/passives


Hoppinswtor

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I already did with Sorc and Merc, so I might as well continue.

 

ADVANCED PROTOTYPE

 

Level 72 Ability: Emergency Glycol (replaces Thermal Sensor Override)

 

Resets the cooldowns of Hydraulic Overrides and Sonic Missile. Additionally, your next two abilities generate no heat and deal 5% more damage.

 

Level 74 Ability: Micro Missiles

The cooldown of shoulder cannons is reduced to 30 seconds and their damage is reduced by 60%. When Explosive Fuel is active, the damage dealt by Shoulder Cannons is increased by 150%. Additionally, all 7 missiles are loaded instantly.

 

AP is fairly straightforward, so the Level 74 passive will increase the APM wihout sacrificing the burst (during Explosive Fuel, the dmg of Shoulder Cannons is returned to normal).

 

Emergency Glycol will help with survivability and heat management a little bit.

 

PYROTECH

 

Level 72 Ability: Napalm Spray (replaces Searing Wave)

Same cooldown, also an instant cast. Now placed with an AoE reticle within 10 meters, much like Deadly Onslaught or Hatred death field.

 

Previously: Deals 4.3k (8.6kish buffed) elemental damage in a cone to up to 8 targets.

 

Now: Sprays up to 8 targets in a 5-meter radius, dealing 2.8k (5.6k buffed) elemental damage plus 2k (4k) elemental damage over 15 seconds.

 

All of the previous buffs apply to Napalm Spray's dot effect. Overall it's a net DPS gain over Searing Wave due to slightly higher overall damage and the easier AoE placement.

 

Level 74 Passive: Enhanced Systems

When Napalm Spray is used under Explosive Fuel, the damage over time portion of Napalm Spray deals 30% more damage. Additionally, the cooldown of Energy Shield is reduced by 30 seconds and its damage reduction is increased by 5 percent.

 

Shield Tech

 

I dunno, ideas?

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For shieldtech, I've always wanted the ability to ignite my oil slick, so I think that would be an amazing passive at 74.

For powertech: Fuel Slick

"Using searing wave inside the area of your active oil slick will ignite the oil slick, burning enemies who remain in the area for X elemental damage each second and generating a high amount of threat."

For vanguard: Conductive Gas

"Using ion storm inside the area of your riot gas will electrify the gas, shocking enemies who remain in the area for X elemental damage each second and generating a high amount of threat."

 

As for an active ability, we're the ONLY tanking class/spec that doesnt have the ability to push enemies. This was initially an intentional design decision because we were the only tanks that could operate at range with relative efficiency, but now that all of our abilities have been nerfed to 10m range I think we deserve a push. Assassins/shadows have force push and overload/force wave, and juggernauts/guardians have force push. It's time we got our own.

 

So for powertech: Backfire

"Blast all enemies in front of you with a powerful flame burst, dealing X elemental damage and knocking them back 10 meters"

 

For vanguard: Arc Flash

"Blast all enemies in front of you with a powerful ion burst, dealing X elemental damage and knocking them back 10 meters"

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Those are clever ideas that would help PT maintain its status as the ideal AoE tank. Plus, I'm sure lots of PT tanks get bored with the current nature of AoE spam and would be happy to have new toys to weave into their arsenal. However, Firestorm would need a slight nerf to prevent a regression to the days where Shield Tech cranked out more cleave than some dot specs.

 

The knockback should be about as strong (or as weak, heh) as an Inquisitor's Overload because PT's already have a lot of utility in that department. As such, the knockback should have no root or snare attached to it. It seems we're on that same page in that regard.

 

There's also some pretty neat synergy with these proposals; tanks can deploy their oil slick, knock people in, pull another in, carb, and ultimately ignite the slick. Counter play would be interesting.

Edited by Hoppinswtor
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From my perspective PT tanks really need a new short duration, short cooldown defensive ability. Playing all tanks in NiM, this just feels to me the area where PT tanks are lacking the most. Take for example Terror From Beyond NiM (the last boss), Juggs can reflect an enraged slam, Sins can Shroud it. PT's kinda have to blow their energy shield on it (its 2 minute cooldown meaning you won't be able to on the next set of tentacles) or the can use Explosive Fuel and pray to RNGesus.

 

So I propose Shield Overcharge: Overcharges your shield, increasing shield chance by 100% for 4 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.

 

I think this really fits with PT's overall theme of shielding attacks, forcefully building Heat Screens with guaranteed shields. It also synergises very well with Heat Blast, as its 25% increased absorb will easily get you to 75%+ absorb.

 

For passives I don't really know what would be good. Perhaps make PT gain 1% internal/elemental DR for each stack of Shield Enhancers. Not very exciting, but would help PT tanks a bit in another area they lack, defense against internal/elemental attacks.

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From my perspective PT tanks really need a new short duration, short cooldown defensive ability. Playing all tanks in NiM, this just feels to me the area where PT tanks are lacking the most. Take for example Terror From Beyond NiM (the last boss), Juggs can reflect an enraged slam, Sins can Shroud it. PT's kinda have to blow their energy shield on it (its 2 minute cooldown meaning you won't be able to on the next set of tentacles) or the can use Explosive Fuel and pray to RNGesus.

 

So I propose Shield Overcharge: Overcharges your shield, increasing shield chance by 100% for 4 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.

 

I think this really fits with PT's overall theme of shielding attacks, forcefully building Heat Screens with guaranteed shields. It also synergises very well with Heat Blast, as its 25% increased absorb will easily get you to 75%+ absorb.

 

For passives I don't really know what would be good. Perhaps make PT gain 1% internal/elemental DR for each stack of Shield Enhancers. Not very exciting, but would help PT tanks a bit in another area they lack, defense against internal/elemental attacks.

 

TBH I would rather see translocate replaced with a defensive ability like you suggest. Translocate is absolutely worthless.

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TBH I would rather see translocate replaced with a defensive ability like you suggest. Translocate is absolutely worthless.

 

Obviously translocate is pretty ****, but I like the idea of having some sort of active ability to protect teammates. The buff it grants the target is actually fairly strong, except for the fact that using any healing or damaging ability cancels it, the cast time also makes it quite awkward to use. I propose removing the cast time and making the benign presence last for the full 6 seconds regardless of abilities used.

 

If the devs feel that an instant translocate would be too strong as meme potential (jump of cliff and translocate would be like the good old phasewalk and pull for sorcs, except with one less step), it should at least be a moving cast, so you can move away from enemy dps while casting this on your healer, to get them away, while also making them immune to leaps, as well as ability activation pushback and interrupts.

 

So either make Translocate instant or usable on the move and make the benign presence buff not cancelled by healing. I think this would make Translocate a great defensive tool for PvP. (If it's still mediocre at that point, we can start thinking about maybe granting the target some extra damage reduction perhaps, to help versus ranged dps)

Edited by AdjeYo
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I like some of the ideas here.

 

Personally I have a few Cooldown ideas.

 

Shield Enhancers 1 min 30s cd. Increases Shield chance by 15% additionally-

Grants 5 stacks. Reduces the next incoming hit by 5k and consumes one stack, Lasts 10 seconds. Any stacks remaining will heal for 5% of your health each. Can be used on yourself or allies.

 

Ultimate Sacrifice - 5 minute Cooldown. Makes you immune to all incoming damage (not one shot mechs like reaches tho) for 5 seconds. Afterwards if you took lethal damage (enough to kill you) your health is dropped to 30%

 

I know that sounds OP as hell but I think the long Cooldown on it would make up for it. Would allow vanguards to be more valuable in things like Styrak and Terror enrage or taking orbs in Brontes burn.

 

I also think they should make Riot Gas be 30% acc loss again.

 

Lastly

 

Protective Shield - 1min 30s CD

 

Place down a 8m circumference shield for 10 seconds. When inside this sheild you and allies take 5% reduced damage, additionally Damage and healing done is increased by 5% and you intercept 10% of all allies damage taken while remaining within the shield.

 

 

This would give Vanguards a unique raid Cooldown much like guardians leap, awe and aoe taunt and shadows aoe taunt, I suppose they already have rebounder but a second raid cd can't hurt. It would also combo decently with Ultimate Sacrifice.

 

If all these cool downs were implemented Vanguard tanks might be unkillable/op but I feel atleast 2 of them should be.

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What if they removed the pvp adrenal / stim from other classes and make them VG / PT exclusive abilties.

 

Medpack : Heals 35% HP

 

Stim : +15% dmg reduc. for 15 sec.

 

The Utilities need the work (also the pull / leap bugs).

 

The Focus Stims / Explosive Fuel utilities should combo better (like making HiB / Rail Shot 30 m., reset the cooldown of Hold the Line / Hydraulic Overrides, provide more defenses) among other things.

Edited by Lionflash
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The medpac idea isn't bad but the last thing PT needs is another DR Cooldown, we really need stuff to completely negate damage for a few seconds like resilence, blade blitz, reflect, force speed etc. also if HiB reset the CD of Hyrdalix you would basically always have it up, like forever, and that would be so busted on a lot of fights.
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1 thing I forever feel that holds vanguard back in a pve settings for buffs dcd wise is sonic re bounder. I know everyone will say stuff like other classes can "cheese" mechs but in my eyes nothing really compares to sonic rebounder when you're able to protect the entire group excluding yourself and ofc timing has to be on point it's the overall effect it has.

 

As for Pt Tank they honestly already have the skills they just need bioware to actually translate them over to proper dcds which should have been done years ago. A bunch of talents in the tank spec should give baseline abitlites dual function on stuff like energy shield, hydrallics. thermal overload, explosive fuel etc, In the past outside of Pt tanks being the kings of aoe tank damage I recall them being the best at taking a consistent amount of sustained damage,highest shield absorb and dr rating with horrid defense rating which translated well into the fact that they lacked emergency cd's. Now you have dcds on guardians and shadows that just out perform it. Pt tanks in my eyes really just need to be updated they were left behind in the actual tank department.

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Honestly Sonic Rebounders is a nice but of raid utility, but it's potential to cheese is not even close to Shroud. Sure rebounders can protect the whole group from a single hit and do some damage in the process, but usually you're not really cheesing mechanics, you just get the whole group hit with some AoE that's usually avoidable pretty easily anyway. Shroud can actually prevent you from getting stacks from certain bosses; no need to swap on brontes second phase, no need to swap tanks on bestia, and that's just two examples from the top of my head.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd put in a suggestion/idea here.

 

DPS PT's need an accuracy debuff similar to Pacify (sent/mara). Once upon a time, dps PT's had Oil Slick just like tanks. So I suggest making Grapple usable at a shorter range and to apply an accuracy debuff to the target. If the target is white barred, then they still get the accuracy debuff. Raid bosses would need to be immune, ofc.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I wasn't very clear; I meant what if Explosive Fuel reset the cool down for Hydraulic Overrides.

 

PT / VG is the only class that can't be immune to damage like others have said, maybe if Hydraulic Overrides provided something defensive (outside of running away), or healed you 2% of your HP per second... which would have synergy with the other utilities.

 

I've had a theory since 5.0 that Responsive Safeguards was created & intended as a PT/VG DCD, but someone clicked the wrong checkbox, and Mercenary was right next to Powertech

Edited by Lionflash
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1 thing I forever feel that holds vanguard back in a pve settings for buffs dcd wise is sonic re bounder. I know everyone will say stuff like other classes can "cheese" mechs but in my eyes nothing really compares to sonic rebounder when you're able to protect the entire group excluding yourself and ofc timing has to be on point it's the overall effect it has.

 

As for Pt Tank they honestly already have the skills they just need bioware to actually translate them over to proper dcds which should have been done years ago. A bunch of talents in the tank spec should give baseline abitlites dual function on stuff like energy shield, hydrallics. thermal overload, explosive fuel etc, In the past outside of Pt tanks being the kings of aoe tank damage I recall them being the best at taking a consistent amount of sustained damage,highest shield absorb and dr rating with horrid defense rating which translated well into the fact that they lacked emergency cd's. Now you have dcds on guardians and shadows that just out perform it. Pt tanks in my eyes really just need to be updated they were left behind in the actual tank department.

 

Every tank class has a passive that does the same thing as sonic rebounder. Not sure how it's holding us back.

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Every tank class has a passive that does the same thing as sonic rebounder. Not sure how it's holding us back.

 

Well Sonic Rebounders is definitely the best out of those abilities. While Threatening Scream and Assassin's Shelter also provide some defensive benefit on AoE taunt, Sonic Rebounders is a ton better than those. Sonic Rebounder can reflect some very high damaging mechanics, providing both a strong defensive benefit, and also a good offensive benefit. (Think Raptus' force execution or TFB's tentacle slam in first phase).

 

Still I don't think Rebounders are OP or is a reason PT tanks shouldn't get some loving from bioware.

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Did they really? That must've been some time ago then, do you know when this was changed?

 

I misremembered. It's not that it was part of the basic dps abilities, but It was low enough in the shield-tech tree, that you could spec into it. 1.2: http://dulfy.net/2014/01/05/swtor-shield-tech-powertech-tanking-class-guide/.

 

2.0 skill calculator: http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/powertech/16/

 

Sorry for the misinformation.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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  • 4 weeks later...

DISCLAIMER: This is in no way hard criticism, just my opinion, take with a grain of salt <3

 

Level 72 Ability: Emergency Glycol (replaces Thermal Sensor Override)

Resets the cooldowns of Hydraulic Overrides and Sonic Missile. Additionally, your next two abilities generate no heat and deal 5% more damage.

That does way too much for one ability, but i like the reset idea.

Sonic Missile means very little to me as I find it an unreliable ability, however Hydralic Overrides makes me drool. More kiting prowess yes pls

 

Level 74 Ability: Micro Missiles

The cooldown of shoulder cannons is reduced to 30 seconds and their damage is reduced by 60%. When Explosive Fuel is active, the damage dealt by Shoulder Cannons is increased by 150%. Additionally, all 7 missiles are loaded instantly.

I don't like the idea of shoulder cannon being a complete slave to Explo. Fuel, I like the trade-off system, but the biggest issue is that it forces you to play a specific way, in some regard, i kinda respect it, because PT has it probably more so than any other class, very few abilities we have, hold any merit of flexibility, so trade the potential for flexibility for... more burst xD

But I feel like this would make Guard Cannon less useful, as i'd be hesitant to use it outside of explo fuel window

 

Level 72 Ability: Napalm Spray (replaces Searing Wave)

Same cooldown, also an instant cast. Now placed with an AoE reticle within 10 meters, much like Deadly Onslaught or Hatred death field.

I was always behind the whole 'give pyro a searing wave replacement', I'd rather the targetting system be similar to Shatter Slug *the aoe is a direct PBAoE as an effective radius of the initial target, but whatever, beggars and all that.

The name could use some work, seeing as Napalm is technically just a flammable oil mixture, not the flame itself... I could be wrong on that.

 

Level 74 Passive: Enhanced Systems

When Napalm Spray is used under Explosive Fuel, the damage over time portion of Napalm Spray deals 30% more damage. Additionally, the cooldown of Energy Shield is reduced by 30 seconds and its damage reduction is increased by 5 percent.

Ok so, why does Pyrotech get the energy shield cdr? Isn't that prototype's forte? Not that I care, the principle is the same

The napalm dot damage steroid is, well, BW are afraid of double digit percentile amplification soooo yea... xD

 

 

Shield Tech. no ideas really?

Personally I'd prefer if they'd restore Jet Charge onto tank spec, I barely use it as a dps spec, it has no synergy with either dps specs, but still holds synergy with tank spec. Pull is way more resourceful and reliable (less bugs too funny enough)

Just my opinion

 

With that in mind, put Battering Ram as a passive onto tank spec and swap it with Coolant, so every spec can get the 35% defense rating explosive fuel + 2% heal total health when above 35% max health on Kolto overload.

That would probably give better defenses for PT overall, at the cost of a highly desirable utility point on legendary (which obviously means you don't have to run it)

 

It's not much, but you can't argue its overpowered, as it already exists.

 

This also makes Translocate an auto ability, which again makes sense as it holds no spec related synergy, so its... kinda harmless to move.

I would also advise a buff on Shield Enhancers to give either +1% defense rating and absorb rating, so its mediocre stat per stack, but broad array of stats.

Or make it 2.5% or 3% shield rating

PT tank needs a hardcore def stat steroid, as it stands right now we're behind on all rng related stats, the 3% here puts us >ON PAR< (so you can't say im being biased here)

Even though its shield rating, i feel like one of the rng stats should hold merit to pt tank, especially seeing as we're called SHIELD SPECIALISTS... get it?

 

In any other case I mentioned this in a post/thread before, give a shield overload mechanic

Basically a Toggle ability that acts as a steroid to our shield rating (could also give absorb), however there is a heavy tradeoff, previously I said the trade-off should be the offensive abilities we have, that way we trade more defenses to tone down the aggression

Using aggressive abilities would force toggle off the shield overload toggle, and then you just continue until its off cooldown.

 

Got no other ideas, sry xD

Edited by Bonzenaattori
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Shield Tech. no ideas really?

Personally I'd prefer if they'd restore Jet Charge onto tank spec, I barely use it as a dps spec, it has no synergy with either dps specs, but still holds synergy with tank spec. Pull is way more resourceful and reliable (less bugs too funny enough)

Just my opinion

 

With that in mind, put Battering Ram as a passive onto tank spec and swap it with Coolant, so every spec can get the 35% defense rating explosive fuel + 2% heal total health when above 35% max health on Kolto overload.

That would probably give better defenses for PT overall, at the cost of a highly desirable utility point on legendary (which obviously means you don't have to run it)

 

It's not much, but you can't argue its overpowered, as it already exists.

 

I'm very much against this, this essentially means PT tanks will have to spend a legendary utility point to get back one of their defense cooldowns (and they are already behind in defensive cooldowns compared to other tanks) and in return grants them one mediocre utility that barely has any use (in pve at least, i don't play pt tank much in pvp, but i've never found any use for it in pve).

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I'm very much against this, this essentially means PT tanks will have to spend a legendary utility point to get back one of their defense cooldowns (and they are already behind in defensive cooldowns compared to other tanks) and in return grants them one mediocre utility that barely has any use (in pve at least, i don't play pt tank much in pvp, but i've never found any use for it in pve).

 

the utility originally belonged in the tank tree before dev took it out and made it a utility. same can be said for jet charge as a whole.

the ability was much stronger and served a great deal of purpose as a pt tank than it ever will as a pt dps

not only did jet charge do a lot more damage, but the movespeed effect had another mechanic where whenever you took damage (something expected of a tank), the effect's duration would refresh itself. Meaning if you were tanking, having 100% uptime was possible, combined with the movespeed peel of oil slick, or hydralic, and you really float.

Retrospectively, there was no reason to take this out to begin with

 

also, when this change was first made, the defense rating from explosive fuel never even existed, so whatever time you played PT tank couldn't have been before this ability change was introduced. which was during the skill tree overhaul, the same time jet charge was taken out of the tank skill tree for the first time, and the embarrassment that is Transpose was put into the tree, with no realistic class synergy, and no consideration for its usage in pvp or pve, both being desperation maneuvers, or specific co-ordinated strats from people that demand a greater deal of skill & teamwork that is not expected of casual players

Edited by Bonzenaattori
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the utility originally belonged in the tank tree before dev took it out and made it a utility. same can be said for jet charge as a whole.

the ability was much stronger and served a great deal of purpose as a pt tank than it ever will as a pt dps

not only did jet charge do a lot more damage, but the movespeed effect had another mechanic where whenever you took damage (something expected of a tank), the effect's duration would refresh itself. Meaning if you were tanking, having 100% uptime was possible, combined with the movespeed peel of oil slick, or hydralic, and you really float.

Retrospectively, there was no reason to take this out to begin with

 

also, when this change was first made, the defense rating from explosive fuel never even existed, so whatever time you played PT tank couldn't have been before this ability change was introduced. which was during the skill tree overhaul, the same time jet charge was taken out of the tank skill tree for the first time, and the embarrassment that is Transpose was put into the tree, with no realistic class synergy, and no consideration for its usage in pvp or pve, both being desperation maneuvers, or specific co-ordinated strats from people that demand a greater deal of skill & teamwork that is not expected of casual players

 

Battering ram as a utility never existed before 5.0. It was changed from Jet speed (which just applied the movement speed increase with a reset of duration when taking damage) when 5.0 dropped. And yes Jet Speed was once in the tank tree, but even then it was often skipped, except for a few fights where the movement speed could help. But since they added the extra 45% movement speed on Hydraulics utility, I never felt like I needed Jet Speed at all in PvE, good riddance if you ask me.

 

And my point still stand, if you make the change you propose, you force all PowerTech tanks to take the utility which increases defense change by 35% with Explosive Fuel active, and all you give them in return is this mediocre ability (as far as pve is concerned) that was commonly skipped in pve, even when it was part of the tank tree back in the day. So yeah, you're still forcing all pve tanks to spend another legendary utility point, just to be as effective as they were before this change you're proposing.

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Battering ram as a utility never existed before 5.0. It was changed from Jet speed (which just applied the movement speed increase with a reset of duration when taking damage) when 5.0 dropped. And yes Jet Speed was once in the tank tree, but even then it was often skipped, except for a few fights where the movement speed could help. But since they added the extra 45% movement speed on Hydraulics utility, I never felt like I needed Jet Speed at all in PvE, good riddance if you ask me.

 

And my point still stand, if you make the change you propose, you force all PowerTech tanks to take the utility which increases defense change by 35% with Explosive Fuel active, and all you give them in return is this mediocre ability (as far as pve is concerned) that was commonly skipped in pve, even when it was part of the tank tree back in the day. So yeah, you're still forcing all pve tanks to spend another legendary utility point, just to be as effective as they were before this change you're proposing.

 

Utilities are designed to be higher value than auto rolled spec abilities.

Spec/discipline passives are designed to have synergy with the abilities you gain with the spec.

The point is one originally belonged in the skill tree, Coolant before was just an alacrity boost and 2% heal above 35% on Kolto Overload.

Your point still stands... your point is really fickle

You're not understanding the point in time when utilities exist and when they were moved and or reallocated

 

Jet speed was already gone when Hydralics was made a global ability (it used to be on the Prototype spec), so when you say you feel like you never needed jet speed ever since they added extra 45% move speed i dont know what that even means. You're comparing two diff functions that existed in two completely diff patches.

 

What I'm saying is that 35% with Explosive fuel was a buff from a time ago that is more recent than battering ram's design. Any spec could benefit from this and have more reliable defenses than sub 50% defense rating because bw scared to make any ability rival saber ward.

In the same patch that battering ram was made a utility, they nerfed Jet Charge's damage, removed its 30% move speed and then some.

In other words, using Battering Ram is like having old school Jet Charge... so why should this be a utility? It's useless

 

My point is place it in a spec that HAS JET CHARGE SYENRGY

Because jet charge belonged in the tank spec to begin with! Transpose didn't, and still doesn't and probably never will

 

But instead you're acting like you lose the world you belong in, when the Legendary tier utilities for powertech are so garbage, you could literally go 4/8 unpicked and still be as strong as you were before.

Don't understand that logic, don't even want to discuss this anymore.

Wonder why they nerfed oil slick's accuracy reduction btw... oh wait!

Edited by Bonzenaattori
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