Make Stronghold great again

[JecVanguard]

My first reaction when I discovered that they are giving us yet another stronghold was...Oh great yet another useless stronghold. Instead of giving us more of the same why not give strongholds an actual purpose beyond a glorified cargo bay. Get all your large brained boffins together and invent something that we, as paying customers, actually want, instead of the same old same old. How many stronghold does one person need, I use one of them, that's it. Try using your imaginations maybe - it's your job!

[Lunafox]

I want as many strongholds as they can give me. I adore decorating them, and as long as they have a decent building/structure that I can make into a home or a themed building, I'm cool with it.

 

I'm quite satisfied with what we've gotten and I'm glad they're paying more attention to feed back to try and make everyone be happy and have elements they enjoy. I think I'd really welcome an enormous structure in a nice location that makes sense as a home type building. So far, I own, a Jedi HQ complete with a hospital, a Sith apartment, A casino/club/restaurant; a museum and cafe; a luxury train; A Sith Temple/military installation and finally a desert paradise/mando hideout.

 

My next wants are, Rakata Prime Beach paradise resort; Cloud City; or a larger hold on DK with a hanger built into a mountain. Copero is nice too, in the tropical part.

 

PS. If I never heard the saying to 'make _______ great again' it'd be too soon.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Lunafox

[Elessara]

Also, this stronghold isn't exactly "more of the same" or "same old same old". The PVP functions are entirely new. I'm not a PVPer but I think it's an interesting idea and I hope a lot of people enjoy it.

[JecVanguard]

I'm glad some players will enjoy the new SH, but for those that dont, what new content have we actually had since the expansion? I think the answer is very little. It would have been nice to have something new that I can do in the game. I'm not a PvPer either. I pay to play, but I'm continually asking myself why is my hard earn money going towards a game that is stagnant. Sadly I'm not ready to quit yet; obviously I'm a masochist.

[casirabit]

My first reaction when I discovered that they are giving us yet another stronghold was...Oh great yet another useless stronghold. Instead of giving us more of the same why not give strongholds an actual purpose beyond a glorified cargo bay. Get all your large brained boffins together and invent something that we, as paying customers, actually want, instead of the same old same old. How many stronghold does one person need, I use one of them, that's it. Try using your imaginations maybe - it's your job!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=946806

[Zerileth]

Oooh, where to begin. I had high hopes, (don't start singing) for the Manaan SH. My mind had some great ideas. The HK 55 mini expansion quest thingie gave me those great ideas. It was a letdown. They could have added fish floating outside the windows. Firaxa (I'm not going to look up the spelling) sharks of various sizes. Seaweed, etc. NOPE.

 

The Rishi SH is going to be this huge massive SH. Ok great for guild pvp, but w/o experience/valor increase why would I bother? But, additionally, how many cantinas do I need? Medical facilities? Jedi/Sith temples? Bedrooms? Sitting rooms?

 

Yes, I get that some of it is up to our creative minds, but also many of the new decorations are so expensive now, and I'm done buying crates anymore (I have 99% of all cartel stuff) that I just have the same old decos to decorate with. And, I'm not paying 20m creds for cantina speakers.

 

So, I'm going to buy Rishi and pay to open all areas. Add another cantina, another sith temple, another mount display area.... yawn. I made a stock market on Yavin. I made an outdoor fair. Theater: yep. Tech room: yep. Garbage, slum area:yep. Life day area: yep.

 

Tell me I'm wrong.... please. And, no offense to Tux and the pvp guild players, but 10 credits after one month of Rishi SH pvp and then it's another Outlaw's Den.

 

I'm writing this w/o enough coffee in the morning.... I'm grumpy.

[casirabit]

I be getting it later, since we getting one for the guild first and that is going to cost us 50m so mine will need to wait a little bit and I will turn that one into a smuggler town. Each of my strongholds have a theme based on the ones who own it. Yavin- My Jedi Consulars (sage and shadow)-Temple of Light Coruscant (Jedi Guardian-Jedi Sentinel) -Jedi Temple, Nar Shadaa (both my bounty hunters) Pirate Roost, Tattone (both of my warriors) -Chamber of Deception, Manaan (both my agents) -Vacation Retreat, DK (my inquisitors)--Temple of Darkness and Umbarra (my troopers) Military Base so Rishi will be own by both my smugglers so therefore Marketplace Cantina.

 

As far as the decorations, it took me over a 1 1/2 to do Yavin because I was picky regarding those decorations so I just take my time for Rishi, but first I do the guild one and that one is easier to do the decorations.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I love strongholds. I own all of them and other than Coruscant, I've taken a lot of time to decorate them. Manaan has been a huge disappointment and I've given up on it, because nothing I do with it really seems to work for me, and I wish there were more flexibility with the train, but I really enjoy strongholds.

 

I'm not planning on unlocking all of Rishi and have zero interest in the PvP aspect, but I'm planning on getting it for the Overlook apartment and the ship.

 

I do agree however that the lack of other content is frustrating. In eight months we've had one bit of story, crammed into a flashpoint. I've only kept my subscription over the summer so I could buy Rishi without dealing with the credit cap and escrow. But once this paid time runs out, it runs out until and unless we have new story content or another stronghold.

[Karameck]

Also, this stronghold isn't exactly "more of the same" or "same old same old". The PVP functions are entirely new. I'm not a PVPer but I think it's an interesting idea and I hope a lot of people enjoy it.

^100x this

 

The complaints in OP don't really make sense considering they are complaining about not getting new things, when we literally have a patch next week with new things for Strongholds.

[annabethchase]

This is pretty much the definition of sandbox content. A stronghold to decorate yourself and a tool kit to make your own PvP games. So I'm hoping many of the old sandbox MMO enthusiasts find this update and start supporting the game.

[PennyAnn]

All of this is well and good, except for one thing: the PvP part of the stronghold doesn't work. Many of the speed boost type abilities do not work properly, once you get more than 10 people on that PvP map area of the SH, you will experience lag and de-synch issues that plague the other Huttball maps such that these games are nearly impossible to play due to being unable to target opponents properly and making scoring nearly instant and too easy (especially on a map that is designed as poorly as this one, with ramps leading right up into the scoring area and the score line right near the top of the ramps).

 

These and a multitude of other issues were mentioned on the PTS forums, but have not been dealt with due to the development time being spent on the aesthetics of the stronghold instead of the PvP play-ability and bug squashing. I hope that they will improve these things after release since they haven't managed to do it during the testing period when they had players giving feedback about it.

 

I am going to take the opportunity to repost what Jerba has been saying over and over regarding issues that continue to not be addressed with the hope that the more this is posted, the more likely it will be seen and hopefully dealt with at some point to make the stronghold what it was intended to be:

 

Since you get into specifics, here's my recap of this PTS cycle:

 

 

• 1st patch: Many PvP players checked out the stronghold, and the majority of the current issues were already mentioned back then. There was only one feedback thread, and here the PvP players were definitely drowned out by decorators. In addition, there was a warzone playtest on the weekend, which took away time from testing the PvP areas of the stronghold.
  Nevertheless, we confirmed the major positioning issues with Holotraverse, and held a 7v7 Huttball match with major lag and desync. At this point it was already clear that you can't have large matches inside strongholds, it is an issue with the engine that cannot be fixed.
  Since I was also helping test the decorating/hook layouts and the training dummy, and I couldn't find the vendor to purchase the PvP decorations, I didn't write a huge post on the PvP issues, but I did link to Snave's VOD where he mentioned all the issues. I even gave specific timestamps, so that the devs wouldn't have to watch the whole 3 hour video. But looking back now, it was clear that in this patch, the devs mainly listened to the feedback from decorators.
   
  
• 2nd patch: A spectator mode was added, and it had a few bugs that I reported. But the major focus of this patch was on the matchmaking changes and the Rishi arena. There were several playtest sessions and I was present during all playtest sessions and gave extensive feedback on those, which left little time to test the PvP areas of the stronghold.
   
  
• 3rd patch: The patch notes mentioned changes to spectator mode, however in the process PvP was disabled in the strongholds. In other words, you entered a PvP area and you were not flagged for PvP, so zero testing of the Huttball area was possible.
  In the end I resorted to dueling a player to verify the patch notes, and noticed that half of the patch notes were wrong; nothing was fixed. For example, spectators were not untargeted and could still be hit with AoE. I was the only player to report this.
  There was also another playtest for the Rishi arena, where I again participated and which took time away from testing the stronghold.
   
  
• 4th patch: Here, the major focus was on the new overlook area. The devs also wanted specific feedback on the LoS issues and whether terminals should be restricted to keys.
  Within 6 hours of the patch going live, I wrote a lengthy post, detailing that all the PvP issues from the 1st patch had been ignored, hoping that the patch gets pushed back again and these issues get fixed. In addition, I verified that bugs like the spectator being hit by AoE are still not fixed (despite being mentioned in the patch notes from the 3rd patch), and that the LoS issues are not fixed. We even had a 2v2 Huttball match where I reported issues like stuns not working, PvP adrenals/medpacs not working, and random LoS issues when attacking players in clear sight.
  These are all alarm signs that the patch is not ready to be released and needs more love.
  

 

Instead, the devs have chosen to go ahead and shutdown PTS and release the patch. We do not know how many of the remaining issues will get fixed, but some issues will surely remain.

At least the crit/absorb bug is getting fixed, which makes me happy since it would have prevented my raiding group from running MM ops until it got hotfixed. But I feel bad for the PvP players who wanted to hold tournaments in the stronghold.

 

 

My feedback to the devs specifically:

• For future PTS cycles, create separate feedback threads for each player group. During the first patch, there should have been separate feedback threads for decorators and for PvP players. Instead, it got mixed together and led to the feedback from PvP players being ignored.
  
• And also for future PTS cycles, do not test everything at once. Specifically, if you want to get feedback from the PvP areas inside the stronghold, do not do a warzone/arena playtest session at the same time. Of all players, I probably spent the most time on PTS, and even I did not have time to test both the PvP areas and the warzone/matchmaking changes.
  
• If you cannot delay this patch, at least ensure that the major issues get fixed with 5.9.3. I consider the following to be major issues which MUST be fixed:
  
  • The hook layout in the Huttball area needs to be completely redone.
    
  • Players who didn't select a team must be removed from the Huttball area when a match starts.
    
  • Players must not be able to get inside the PvP areas after the match has already started.
    
  • Terminals must be restricted to silver keys, not bronze keys.
    
  • PvP adrenals and medpacs must not get disabled when you die in the Huttball area.
    
  • The remaining LoS issues with decorations must be fixed.
    
  • Spectators must be ignored by AoE and knockback abilities. Otherwise, it is super annoying and irritating for streamers to comment on a match.
    
  • There should be a stealth detection for silver/gold key holders so that tournament organizers can be sure there is no stealthed player interfering with the match.
    

  The lag and desync cannot be fixed, but with these changes, at least it becomes viable to organize a tournament, and removes the potential for griefing. (More details, incl. screenshots and videos can be found in this, this and this post.)

 

.

[kodrac]

I'd care more about strongholds if cartel packs weren't the sole source of decorations.

[Karameck]

I'd care more about strongholds if cartel packs weren't the sole source of decorations.

They aren't... by a long shot.

 

Reputation vendors, Conquest Vendors, Fleet Commendations, Flashpoints, achievements, Crafting... just to name a few.

[TrixxieTriss]

My first reaction when I discovered that they are giving us yet another stronghold was...Oh great yet another useless stronghold. Instead of giving us more of the same why not give strongholds an actual purpose beyond a glorified cargo bay. Get all your large brained boffins together and invent something that we, as paying customers, actually want, instead of the same old same old. How many stronghold does one person need, I use one of them, that's it. Try using your imaginations maybe - it's your job!

 

They have with the new one. If you go check out the pts forums and look at the dev notes you will see.

 

It will have a pvp focus that allows you to play your own customised pvp matches with how ever many people you want. There is even a Hutt Ball option and you can place LoS decorations and it also has a Bolster terminal to allow people of different lvls to participate together.

 

I’d say that’s meaningful and different to other SHs and they have worked hard with the testers on the PTS to give the non-pvp SH people things they wanted to.

[TrixxieTriss]

All of this is well and good, except for one thing: the PvP part of the stronghold doesn't work. Many of the speed boost type abilities do not work properly, once you get more than 10 people on that PvP map area of the SH, you will experience lag and de-synch issues that plague the other Huttball maps such that these games are nearly impossible to play due to being unable to target opponents properly and making scoring nearly instant and too easy (especially on a map that is designed as poorly as this one, with ramps leading right up into the scoring area and the score line right near the top of the ramps).

 

These and a multitude of other issues were mentioned on the PTS forums, but have not been dealt with due to the development time being spent on the aesthetics of the stronghold instead of the PvP play-ability and bug squashing. I hope that they will improve these things after release since they haven't managed to do it during the testing period when they had players giving feedback about it.

 

I am going to take the opportunity to repost what Jerba has been saying over and over regarding issues that continue to not be addressed with the hope that the more this is posted, the more likely it will be seen and hopefully dealt with at some point to make the stronghold what it was intended to be:

 

.

 

Hey Penny,

 

All good points and hopefully they will be fixed for the release.

 

Just with dysnc, it’s not limited to HB, it’s in every pvp map in the game, including 4v4 arena and I believe it’s also prevalent in pve stuff too.

 

We always had a tiny bit of dysnc in the game, but 5.0 introduced a massive amount and its actually been getting worse over time. I would say it’s even become 10% worse since March this year.

If they don’t fix it soon, hopefully with this patch, I can see pvp becoming unplayable in the coming months and pve things like raids also becoming more severely affected.

 

There was some major thing they did in 5.0 that made it worse. It all points back to then and is the only logical conclusion. It seems obvious to me, they made some change to the engine or graphics that has messed up. It’s probably bad coding that doesn’t mesh with the original coding and it’s causing the system to deteriorate every time they add more content. I fear if they haven’t fixed it with this patch, it will be a disaster when it goes live.

 

I too will quote Jerba

 

: Originally Posted by Jerba View Post

Since you get into specifics, here's my recap of this PTS cycle:

 

1st patch: Many PvP players checked out the stronghold, and the majority of the current issues were already mentioned back then. There was only one feedback thread, and here the PvP players were definitely drowned out by decorators. In addition, there was a warzone playtest on the weekend, which took away time from testing the PvP areas of the stronghold.

Nevertheless, we confirmed the major positioning issues with Holotraverse, and held a 7v7 Huttball match with major lag and desync. At this point it was already clear that you can't have large matches inside strongholds, it is an issue with the engine that cannot be fixed.

Since I was also helping test the decorating/hook layouts and the training dummy, and I couldn't find the vendor to purchase the PvP decorations, I didn't write a huge post on the PvP issues, but I did link to Snave's VOD where he mentioned all the issues. I even gave specific timestamps, so that the devs wouldn't have to watch the whole 3 hour video. But looking back now, it was clear that in this patch, the devs mainly listened to the feedback from decorators.

2nd patch: A spectator mode was added, and it had a few bugs that I reported. But the major focus of this patch was on the matchmaking changes and the Rishi arena. There were several playtest sessions and I was present during all playtest sessions and gave extensive feedback on those, which left little time to test the PvP areas of the stronghold.

3rd patch: The patch notes mentioned changes to spectator mode, however in the process PvP was disabled in the strongholds. In other words, you entered a PvP area and you were not flagged for PvP, so zero testing of the Huttball area was possible.

In the end I resorted to dueling a player to verify the patch notes, and noticed that half of the patch notes were wrong; nothing was fixed. For example, spectators were not untargeted and could still be hit with AoE. I was the only player to report this.

There was also another playtest for the Rishi arena, where I again participated and which took time away from testing the stronghold.

4th patch: Here, the major focus was on the new overlook area. The devs also wanted specific feedback on the LoS issues and whether terminals should be restricted to keys.

Within 6 hours of the patch going live, I wrote a lengthy post, detailing that all the PvP issues from the 1st patch had been ignored, hoping that the patch gets pushed back again and these issues get fixed. In addition, I verified that bugs like the spectator being hit by AoE are still not fixed (despite being mentioned in the patch notes from the 3rd patch), and that the LoS issues are not fixed. We even had a 2v2 Huttball match where I reported issues like stuns not working, PvP adrenals/medpacs not working, and random LoS issues when attacking players in clear sight.

These are all alarm signs that the patch is not ready to be released and needs more love.

 

Instead, the devs have chosen to go ahead and shutdown PTS and release the patch. We do not know how many of the remaining issues will get fixed, but some issues will surely remain.

At least the crit/absorb bug is getting fixed, which makes me happy since it would have prevented my raiding group from running MM ops until it got hotfixed. But I feel bad for the PvP players who wanted to hold tournaments in the stronghold.

 

 

My feedback to the devs specifically:

For future PTS cycles, create separate feedback threads for each player group. During the first patch, there should have been separate feedback threads for decorators and for PvP players. Instead, it got mixed together and led to the feedback from PvP players being ignored.

And also for future PTS cycles, do not test everything at once. Specifically, if you want to get feedback from the PvP areas inside the stronghold, do not do a warzone/arena playtest session at the same time. Of all players, I probably spent the most time on PTS, and even I did not have time to test both the PvP areas and the warzone/matchmaking changes.

If you cannot delay this patch, at least ensure that the major issues get fixed with 5.9.3. I consider the following to be major issues which MUST be fixed:

The hook layout in the Huttball area needs to be completely redone.

Players who didn't select a team must be removed from the Huttball area when a match starts.

Players must not be able to get inside the PvP areas after the match has already started.

Terminals must be restricted to silver keys, not bronze keys.

PvP adrenals and medpacs must not get disabled when you die in the Huttball area.

The remaining LoS issues with decorations must be fixed.

Spectators must be ignored by AoE and knockback abilities. Otherwise, it is super annoying and irritating for streamers to comment on a match.

There should be a stealth detection for silver/gold key holders so that tournament organizers can be sure there is no stealthed player interfering with the match.

The lag and desync cannot be fixed, but with these changes, at least it becomes viable to organize a tournament, and removes the potential for griefing. (More details, incl. screenshots and videos can be found in this, this and this post.)

Edited August 5, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Lhancelot]

All of this is well and good, except for one thing: the PvP part of the stronghold doesn't work. Many of the speed boost type abilities do not work properly, once you get more than 10 people on that PvP map area of the SH, you will experience lag and de-synch issues that plague the other Huttball maps such that these games are nearly impossible to play due to being unable to target opponents properly and making scoring nearly instant and too easy (especially on a map that is designed as poorly as this one, with ramps leading right up into the scoring area and the score line right near the top of the ramps).

 

These and a multitude of other issues were mentioned on the PTS forums, but have not been dealt with due to the development time being spent on the aesthetics of the stronghold instead of the PvP play-ability and bug squashing. I hope that they will improve these things after release since they haven't managed to do it during the testing period when they had players giving feedback about it.

 

I am going to take the opportunity to repost what Jerba has been saying over and over regarding issues that continue to not be addressed with the hope that the more this is posted, the more likely it will be seen and hopefully dealt with at some point to make the stronghold what it was intended to be:

 

 

 

.

 

I missed Jerba's post, wow.

 

Wish I had seen that he's right about how it was hard to test everything at once. Agreed, different players drowned out others too with so much feedback.

 

I hope they manage to get it all right, but sounds like a ton of stuff with loose ends. I guess that's why they took an extra week to release the patch.

[TrixxieTriss]

I missed Jerba's post, wow.

 

Wish I had seen that he's right about how it was hard to test everything at once. Agreed, different players drowned out others too with so much feedback.

 

I hope they manage to get it all right, but sounds like a ton of stuff with loose ends. I guess that's why they took an extra week to release the patch.

 

That’s why I started my own thread for my bug feed back, but I was told to post it in the bug section. Which I then did. The feed back thread wasn’t really the place to post the bugs because it got drowned out.

[PennyAnn]

I missed Jerba's post, wow.

 

Wish I had seen that he's right about how it was hard to test everything at once. Agreed, different players drowned out others too with so much feedback.

 

I hope they manage to get it all right, but sounds like a ton of stuff with loose ends. I guess that's why they took an extra week to release the patch.

 

Jerba posted detailed feedback throughout the entire PTS process. Others did too, of course... but his was always very detailed and precise. He did a really good job of directing them to things they really need to change for PvP to work in the stronghold (as best as possible anyway).

 

Trix - De-synch is indeed an issue throughout the game in all areas. The Stronghold PvP map is no different, unfortunately.

 

.

[kodrac]

They aren't... by a long shot.

 

Reputation vendors, Conquest Vendors, Fleet Commendations, Flashpoints, achievements, Crafting... just to name a few.

 

Ok. Allow me to rephrase for the pedants. I'd care more about strongholds if cartel packs wren't the sole source of all the good/fun/wanted decorations. By a long shot...

Edited August 5, 2018 by kodrac

[Karameck]

Ok. Allow me to rephrase for the pedants. I'd care more about strongholds if cartel packs wren't the sole source of all the good/fun/wanted decorations. By a long shot...

Well I'd just flat out disagree with you. Many of my favorite furnishings are not from Cartel packs, they come from a variety of sources including the ones listed above.

 

Prices on the GTN would indicate others consider non-cartel items desirable as well.

[jimmorrisson]

All Strongholds can be improved be including more speederbikes and expanding into exhaustion area-invisible wall territory (Tatooine especially and yes I am aware how to glitch out into exhaustion area)

 

Yavin

- More Speeder bikes!

- Speeder bike moved close to spawn area

- Access to Mountain top

 

Tatooine

- More Speeder bikes!

- Speederbike is needed near spawn area, like say outside the balcony ledge

- Exhaustion area boundary should be moved outward thereby increasing overall stronghold area.

 

Manaan

-Speederbikes?

-Underwater windows should be one expansive window with aquatic life (i.e. Flying Whales assets)

-More rooftop access

 

Strongholds could also use a low profile floor Legacy Bank variant.

Edited August 13, 2018 by jimmorrisson