AdamLKvist Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 lolol. It has nothing to do with giving more options and diversity, you ALREADY have that within the current system. This has everything to do with dumbing the game down to a level whereby you can have one toon (because rolling alts is far too much like hard work for you guys) that is a one man army...you want to be PvPing as your uber dps monster, then click click, now you are a top end healer spec, oh noes...still not enough...click click now you have a top end tank spec.... Its entirely about having the best of the trinity on one toon at no cost or effort....with the ability to switch specs at will.... That is what this is really about, saying you just want options is the BS here because you already have them. The fact is you dont like the cost or the effort associated with experimenting with said options and you want it ALL for free. Driz Thank you for raising points. Here's why you're wrong. One, different specs requires different gear - rendering your point about "being the ultimate trinity in one character" mute. But I'm gonna bare with it for a moment. You make a good point (even though its not since getting that kind of gear is so time consuming with the current system that you could basically bring up a level 50 in that same time, ridicolous - but however that's another problem) We do not, in any way, shape or form have the diversity that you speak off. There are so incredibly varied specs - maybe you haven't had the time to consider hybrid specs, but for those of us who have it is outright impossible to spec or experiment. I play a counsular, its 50, myself and I've paid more than 500k for respecs, maybe closer to a million but I wouldnt swear it so lets go with 500k. Why? Seer + Balance, interested hybrid dps build, Telekinetics cause of so much fun, Seer cause of viability and strenght in a group. The mmo system is not built around limiting specs as you propose, three trees within the same class is simply to encourage such experimantation - so why would you want to limit the way the game already plays? The real problem for you should be DUAL SPEC, but this is not about that, at all... Ps. Counsular 50 Smuggler 9 Guardian 17 Vanguard 12 Fulltime job. Gaming. Training. STOP GENERALISING. I'm rolling alts. But I would not DREAM, at this point, to roll ANOTHER Counsular to 50 just to viably have another spec with different gear - why is that hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyress Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There is a reason the old breed of MMO has died, because it forced people into a box and told them to sit there. Over the course of the last few years there has been a change which is to remove the box and let people see the world. Should I spend a month levelling a new alt so I can dps on occassion? I'm sorry but a month of my life is valuable and I WILL not spend it levelling the same character of the same class just so I can enjoy dps. We are not advocating the changability of advanced classes, just a little bit of freedom to try specs. At the moment this game has no diversity and you're forced back into a box which was removed years ago. Make the world smaller and you explore it faster, open it up and people will thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamLKvist Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Both alternatives are currently open, what are you moaning about exactly? If you want to have more utility and optimize your spec, you have to pay for it. Too early in game to say whether the current cost is too high/low due to the economy establishing itself. If history is anything to go by; soon 50k will be NOTHING and BW will have to give that to players as starting creds. In any case, those saying they want to try different specs and are crying about the cost of 4 specs, are you gonna pay for them all in one go after using them for 5 mins each or actually try the different specs for any amount of time!? If the latter then you'll likely have made enough creds in between to fund the respec cost. My respec is 99 800. Also, economy doesn't work like that. You cant take outrageous prices at first because it will balance itself out later. You lower the price now, and you make it higher later. Right now its too high, which is all anyone in this thread "for" this is saying. Don't make it about something else, please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thank you for raising points. Here's why you're wrong. One, different specs requires different gear - rendering your point about "being the ultimate trinity in one character" mute. But I'm gonna bare with it for a moment. Really? How so? Is cunning not cunning for any shape of Smuggler you make? Do Smugglers suddenly need to wear heavy armor, or find Willpower gear? Nope. If you want to absolutely maximize, you can get crit gear perhaps, for a dps class... but, if you choose to play on the fringe, then you gotta jump through the hoops and get extra gear. But completely unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamLKvist Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There is a reason the old breed of MMO has died, because it forced people into a box and told them to sit there. Over the course of the last few years there has been a change which is to remove the box and let people see the world. Should I spend a month levelling a new alt so I can dps on occassion? I'm sorry but a month of my life is valuable and I WILL not spend it levelling the same character of the same class just so I can enjoy dps. We are not advocating the changability of advanced classes, just a little bit of freedom to try specs. At the moment this game has no diversity and you're forced back into a box which was removed years ago. Make the world smaller and you explore it faster, open it up and people will thrive. I may now retire from this thread since this is all I really needed to say - other than adding that I do love the game, but yeah. Well said, sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exothermix Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I play a counsular, its 50, myself and I've paid more than 500k for respecs, maybe closer to a million but I wouldnt swear it so lets go with 500k. The mmo system is not built around limiting specs as you propose, three trees within the same class is simply to encourage such experimantation - so why would you want to limit the way the game already plays? The real problem for you should be DUAL SPEC, but this is not about that, at all... STOP GENERALISING. I'm rolling alts. But I would not DREAM, at this point, to roll ANOTHER Counsular to 50 just to viably have another spec with different gear - why is that hard to understand? I'm not sure if you're even arguing that the cost of respec is too much after reading this post, but assuming you are. If you have earned and spent (at least) 500k on respecing as well as funding consumables/repairs etc. then there doesn't seem to be an issue with the cost of a respec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taskcommnda Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think it may scale with level as well. I just respecced recently and it cost 98500. Suffice I say it'll be my last respec for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 My respec is 99 800. Also, economy doesn't work like that. You cant take outrageous prices at first because it will balance itself out later. You lower the price now, and you make it higher later. Right now its too high, which is all anyone in this thread "for" this is saying. Don't make it about something else, please It's not too high. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing - keeping people from switching specs like turning on a light switch. Your decisions and play style choices need to carry weight. This helps achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyDude Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As a healer, engaging both in PvP and PvE, I recently reached 99800 respec costs - top that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Don't do it so much. The reason the cost is there is as a deterrent. They want you, rightfully so, to play your class as it's defined, not change your role like you change pants. I have been trumpeting this stance all the time too, however because of the pure popularity of having folks respec for different roles, and because of a lack of healers in general. I actually will side with those who wish to respec. I think having the costs more inline with how much it's happening should be done. No use pissing off people, or giving trolls fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Classic yet flawed debating trick to over-exaggerate a viewpoint in order to point out absurdity.... Think about it, if you need to take it to extremes to show a flaw in it... Perhaps it is not flawed. And I don't want to play multiple characters. I want to be a sith warrior dps'n and a sith warrior in PvP.... Veangance (so far) is the best for dps in raids... however it is the worst out of the three for PvP. Now lets do what you did... And take an example to an extreme. My sith warrior has very little AOE dmg abilities... So my raid leader is going to have me role a different character in order to get talents that upgrade smash and sweeping slash for fights that require a lot of AOE. That or the raid leader is going to make me sit out for that fight, and bring the Rage specced SW jugg, who has better AOE in shockwaved smashes. Then, the next fight, im going to switch out my rage specced jugg's for teh vengeance specced jugg's, because the next fight has no AOE requirement, and is a tank and spank. But hey Rage specced Jugg's, dont worry, im sure you'll get used a lot (lol no).. Do you see how ridiculous that is? In reality neither juggernauts get picked cause vengeance has crap dps and bounty hunters have way better aoe. Moot point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
translucentwolf Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There is a reason the old breed of MMO has died, because it forced people into a box and told them to sit there. Over the course of the last few years there has been a change which is to remove the box and let people see the world. Should I spend a month levelling a new alt so I can dps on occassion? I'm sorry but a month of my life is valuable and I WILL not spend it levelling the same character of the same class just so I can enjoy dps. We are not advocating the changability of advanced classes, just a little bit of freedom to try specs. At the moment this game has no diversity and you're forced back into a box which was removed years ago. Make the world smaller and you explore it faster, open it up and people will thrive. Respec is *free* if you wait a week. Can't you live with a given role, for 7 whole days? Experiment all you want. But, you can't call a few hours of pvp with your DPS, and then swap to heal for a Raid experimentation. That's exploitation, and that's what the costs are for. Pick something you like, and give it a week. Maybe you'll find that you like it so much, you're willing to keep it. Judging from this thread though... some of us can't stand to do one role, for more than a couple of hours. They will end up credit poor, while we who can focus on a given task for more than a day or two will save that endless (really, 50k is a lot?! somebody isn't doing very well at pvp... must be the bunny hopping, and lack of mastery of their momentary spec... ) respec cash for some sweet, sweet 1.5 million cred speeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 That cost is there exactly for this reason. To prevent you from respeccing twice a day. It hurts the multiplayer aspect of the game if every player can change the specialisation constantly and fulfill all roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganwishes Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 People really defend these costs? That's some boardgame BS, where choices are permanent. I play the game to have fun and progress, not to live an alter-ego character where I am "Keddikuz" the Immortal specced Sith Warrior. I haven't been playing roleplay games for 20-30 years like some have, but I've been playing mmos ever since DAoC. This is how I play this game; After acquirng the flashpoint gear I start progressing in raids (Since that's the only interesting encounter to beat). BUT inbetween raid times I want to PvP.. And If we are not able to respec freely every day/every other day, without having to grind/farm credits that's basicly like saying "You made the choice to PvE, now stick with it" I'm pretty sure that's not how the developers intended us to play. And something that have happened alot in the past games I've played is that when raiding there's always people that have to leave early due to some unforseen RL event. Say that the off tank have to leave early, I should be able to just port out and get my tankgear and respec instead of everyone having to call it a night. That's making progress flourish how people can be against this boggles my mind. In the end: Cheaper respeccs is not hurting the game in anyway and there's no valid point proving that it is. Also, cheaper costs aint hurting those who approve of the current system, you can just stay in your spec for your entire SWTOR career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 People really defend these costs? That's some boardgame BS, where choices are permanent. I play the game to have fun and progress, not to live an alter-ego character where I am "Keddikuz" the Immortal specced Sith Warrior. I haven't been playing roleplay games for 20-30 years like some have, but I've been playing mmos ever since DAoC. This is how I play this game; After acquirng the flashpoint gear I start progressing in raids (Since that's the only interesting encounter to beat). BUT inbetween raid times I want to PvP.. And If we are not able to respec freely every day/every other day, without having to grind/farm credits that's basicly like saying "You made the choice to PvE, now stick with it" I'm pretty sure that's not how the developers intended us to play. And something that have happened alot in the past games I've played is that when raiding there's always people that have to leave early due to some unforseen RL event. Say that the off tank have to leave early, I should be able to just port out and get my tankgear and respec instead of everyone having to call it a night. That's making progress flourish how people can be against this boggles my mind. In the end: Cheaper respeccs is not hurting the game in anyway and there's no valid point proving that it is. Also, cheaper costs aint hurting those who approve of the current system, you can just stay in your spec for your entire SWTOR career. Don't worry. BioWare confirmed they want dual-spec in soon after launch (their words) so we won't be in this situation for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganwishes Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Don't worry. BioWare confirmed they want dual-spec in soon after launch (their words) so we won't be in this situation for long. Okay, didnt know this, thanks for the info mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulchilde Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ok many of you have been force to live with the fact the respecing so often is a no no because hey the devs do not like that and balancing the game around every possible spec is hard and game would be too difficult for players to analyze. Bioware why dont you just copy and paste another one of Blizzard's game and allow for unlimited free respecs. Those people above me that complain about "sitck to one build" need to get out of that frame of mind the devs have forced onto you. Flexibility is a feature the gamers value and to deny them is bad product development. I am sorry if everyone here likes being boxed into one play style for the entire game but I rolled an operative to be able to heal and dps because it is what I feel like doing and helps in progression. Only legitimate complaint I have seen on this thread is my math. yea it is roughly 25-30 games, but have many game will the 6th one cost. No, your opinion is that dual spec should be allowed and at this time it isn’t. If you want that flexibility might I suggest WoW and Rift. At this moment SWTOR doesn’t have dual specs and I hope it doesn’t as I like having to decide what role I want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Don't worry. BioWare confirmed they want dual-spec in soon after launch (their words) so we won't be in this situation for long. Got a source for that? Oh...you mean this... "Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure" Confirmation indeed lol. Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Got a source for that? Oh...you mean this... "Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure" Confirmation indeed lol. Driz It's in black and white. Eat your words, sucker. "Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch." http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamLKvist Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm not sure if you're even arguing that the cost of respec is too much after reading this post, but assuming you are. If you have earned and spent (at least) 500k on respecing as well as funding consumables/repairs etc. then there doesn't seem to be an issue with the cost of a respec. The point being, realize how much I had to sacrifice. Unneedingly so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) It's in black and white. Eat your words, sucker. "Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch." http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Old statement is old. Go check out the LATEST communication as per SR's Q&A on redit a few days ago for the LATEST stance on dual spec. Seems to be a lot less committed than the age old quote you have linked, no? I'll give you a spoiler, the latest stance is "Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure" Confirmed indeed lol. Eat your own words, errr sucker Driz Edited January 4, 2012 by ImperialSun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebular Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) The longer one goes without respecing, the cheaper it will be. The more one respecs, the more it will cost. It should take no more than 1 week for the cost to reset back to free, if one would just stop respecing for a week. This has all been posted before and will probably be posted again, since so many seem to skip through the thread and just post their uninformed opinion. Edited January 4, 2012 by Zebular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Old statement is old. Go check out the LATEST communication as per SR's Q&A on redit a few days ago for the LATEST stance on dual spec. Seems to be a lot less committed than the age old quote you have linked, no? I'll give you a spoiler, the latest stance is "Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure" Confirmed indeed lol. Eat your own words, errr sucker Driz Nah, I'm taking the words of the development team over the words of a community manager who isn't involved in game design. No dice, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 For those of you who have not gotten to my point at respec cost let me tell you the cost structure. 1st time: free 2nd: 1800 cred 3rd: 8300 4th: 25000 5th: 50000 if I have to respec again it would cost 50k to do so. When the loading screen suggest I try out different specs through experimentation that is exactly what I did. I also have been switching between healing and dps just to make a heroic grp work for my guild. Just to get a sense of how much 50k is, I would have to do 10 warzone matches just to be able to pay for a respec. Lesson.....consider carefully before you choose. Those prices are very cheap. If you donot know what you want to do by the third time of changing...you really need to play a different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Nah, I'm taking the words of the development team over the words of a community manager who isn't involved in game design. No dice, bro. Lol...thats your problem. Must...grasp....at....straws..... If you cant even concern yourself with the latest company communication and have to cling to an age old comment because it suits your agenda...well, thats your choice and your ignorance. Enjoy it and have fun in game Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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