We are tired of PvE being nerfed by PvP-based nerfs! Give us separate pve/pvp stats!

[Mewmaker]

I’m tired of my PvE chars being killed by PvP-based nerfs!

 

My fix- give classes separate nerfs or buffs based on PvE and PvP complaints, and have them only affect PvP/PvE stats respectively.

 

Thank you.

 

P.s.- please please please

[Pscyon]

Indeed. Just about every nerf ever is because some ability that is fun, (even remotely) good or worst of all, has utility, offended the PvP crowd. Having abilities affect PvP and PvE differently would certainly ensure it we'd remain mostly un-nerfed, but since it hasn't been that way since the game released, it's never going to change. Thinking they'd have two teams working separately on this now is the highest degree of wishful thinking possible

[CrazyCT]

Are "WE"?

[Lunafox]

I think this is a good idea, it would be wise to separate the two disciplines/activities. They are completely different animals that require different skill sets and strengths and no matter what is done to one, it will always be to the detriment of the other.

 

You could even make two armor sets, and incorporate these into the wardrobe windows, instead of having one set of equipable armour, you have two, one pve, one pvp, and of course we'd still have the other wardrobe windows to change our looks.

[xordevoreaux]

Are "WE"?

 

Yes, we are.

[Ragico]

Yes please.

 

The simple solution being just to have skills work differently depending on who you are targeting (npc or player). Guild wars managed to pull this off years ago and I find it funny how so many companies neglect to follow suit.

[Mewmaker]

Yeah, why should we PvE ers get punished for people having fun with good abilities in pvp!

[RobertFKennedyUS]

Totally agree with the general concepts of Mew. This is how it should have been all along: separate stats for pvp than pve. Pve'rs are essentially held hostage to whatever ******** we generally don't give a **** about in warzones. A pretty ****** business model, considering you're angering your customers.

[Nyla]

Some separation would be good but I doubt it will happen now.

 

Never understood why some people think class/spec balance is only done for PvP reasons; I guess that overperforming to the point it makes some content/mechanics pointless for some or that class/spec stacking that makes some other classes/specs unwanted in end-game content, thoses things are just a problem for PvP, sure, not at all in PvE...right ?

 

If you don't see how it's a problem either for the low performer class/spec in PvE or from the PoV of the devs, try thinking again...

[Seireeni]

"Stats"? Who cares, have the stats be different. Abilities? Sorry, I'd prefer being able to practice before hopping into the activity where I should already know my abilities and know how to effectively use them while other players try to murder me. Having two sets of abilities, or abilities with serious changes, would be bad for people like me, who play both pvp and pve.

[SteveTheCynic]

My fix- give classes separate nerfs or buffs based on PvE and PvP complaints, and have them only affect PvP/PvE stats respectively.

Explain HOW you think this could possibly work.

 

In a game like GW1 or GW2, there is a clear separation between PvP combat (even if it involves NPCs, as in GW1 GvG or GW2 WvW) and PvE combat.

 

In SWTOR, that isn't true. Sure, in a Warzone, PvP rules would apply, and on a monofaction planet or in an OP/FP/Up or mission instance, PvE rules would apply, BUT...

 

Which ruleset applies on Tatooine? Today, you could establish a rule that the PvP instance uses PvP rules and the PvE instance uses PvE rules, but what about in the old days? By that, I mean, in the time when bifaction planets like Tatooine permitted (and in some cases forced) PvP availability in PvE environments.

 

The disadvantage of doing that, though is that to avoid certain types of problem, PvP abilities would have to be objectively inferior to PvE abilities. If not, there's an advantage to be gained by going to the PvP instance, and that would come off as "forcing" (yes, I know, it's a choice, but you and I both know it would be called that) players to be gank fodder.

[Mewmaker]

I’m not talking about pvp areas, I’m just talking about WZs, ranked or unranked.

[jennywilson]

I'm on board with this - please separate out how abilites work in PvP vs PvE environments. I appreciate that (as the Steve clearly detailed) there might be some problems with how this is implemented, but at the very least it would be nice for stuff to work one way in a wz and another way in ops/fp/uprising.

 

I don't know how to solve the issue of pvp vs pve instances, but I'm pretty tired of my performance in ops getting nerfed by an ability adjustment based on something that isn't remotely relevant to the situation I'm using said ability in. Perhaps PvPers also would feel the same if/when abilities are adjusted for PvE reasons.

 

TL,DR They're completley different styles of game play, please treat the ability adjustments separately too.

 

 

(Edit for typos)

Edited April 14, 2018 by jennywilson

[Mewmaker]

"Stats"? Who cares, have the stats be different. Abilities? Sorry, I'd prefer being able to practice before hopping into the activity where I should already know my abilities and know how to effectively use them while other players try to murder me. Having two sets of abilities, or abilities with serious changes, would be bad for people like me, who play both pvp and pve.

 

I am only talking about the stat nerfs and buffs. However, addressing the abilities, I don’t think there should be any drastic changes, and anyway, if there were, they could always make a tutorial level for them like the did with gsf. Also, unranked is what that is for- to practice and learn your abilities.

[SteveTheCynic]

I’m not talking about pvp areas, I’m just talking about WZs, ranked or unranked.

OK, so for you, the boundary between "PvP rules" and "PvE rules" is at the edge of WZs. In all other areas, the PvE rules would apply. That's a reasonable approach, with a good approximation of the GW distinction between objectively PvP zones (PvP, GvG in GW1; sPvP and WvW in GW2, WZs in SWTOR) and objectively PvE zones (everything else).

 

I just wanted to see where you thought the split should be. Thanks.

[Mewmaker]

You are welcome.

[BRKMSN]

There is a whole lot of, "It's all because of them!" going on in threads like these. I've seen both sides accuse the other of being responsible for changes they didn't like. While a specific reason given in the official explanation is usually describing either a PvP or PvE scenario to illustrate, in most cases, the change is considering both phases of play.

 

Some players log in once or twice a week just to do raids with their guild. Some players log in every evening to farm WZs and spam the PvP channel with "____ QUEUE GRANKED!" These players do exist, but there are an awful lot of players that try to do a little of everything or a mix of both PvE and PvP. While you're pointing your fingers at the players that don't specialize in the content you prefer, maybe consider those that just roll with the punches (class balance / over-performing / underperforming) and don't want to see our characters perform differently in different content or, even worse, have 2 sets of gear again.

 

Rest assured that in the event they ever get class balance optimized perfectly, the next level cap increase and utility tweaks will come along and throw everything back out of alignment once again. So, if complaining is your thing, you're all set right now and the outlook is promising for you down the road.

[Mewmaker]

I’m not complaining, I’m just requesting a QoL change.

[drug_cartel]

It is worth noting that SWTOR already does do some amount of differences. For example, the stat mechanics in PvP make Defense, Shield, and Absorb do essentially nothing, while these stats are incredibly useful in PvE. An Operations Tank would never forego all Defense and just focus on Endurance; it would put a ridiculous tax on the healers. But in PvP, because the stats function differently, that is what needs to happen.

 

The end result becomes PvP being a lot more about burst damage, while PvE is about sustained damage.

 

Since they already have adjusted PvP and PvE to function differently, then why do their new changes need to affect both. Why not embrace it and allow both to function differently.

 

Or, barring that, why not actually adjust PvP so that stats like Defense can work in PvP, that way the two can truly be the same.

 

This one-foot-in one-foot-out attitude is what makes sure people in both camps will manage to be upset.

[Wagerbane]

I’m tired of my PvE chars being killed by PvP-based nerfs!

 

My fix- give classes separate nerfs or buffs based on PvE and PvP complaints, and have them only affect PvP/PvE stats respectively.

 

Thank you.

 

P.s.- please please please

 

Make any difference because status works both PvE and PvP. Status is between 200 to 248 max. It depends on how much you play.

[Seireeni]

I am only talking about the stat nerfs and buffs. However, addressing the abilities, I don’t think there should be any drastic changes, and anyway, if there were, they could always make a tutorial level for them like the did with gsf. Also, unranked is what that is for- to practice and learn your abilities.

 

Unranked pvp is for people who dislike arenas or how competitive ranked is but still like pvp. It's not the place to learn to the basics. The same way, you're supposed to queue for SM ops only when you know at least something about your class, spec and combat role, not when you just got your abilities.

 

And the gsf tutorial is terrible. It teaches you nothing. After completing it I might be able to shoot at a target that's just sitting still and not crash into objects if I move slowly enough, and that's not nearly enough to be competitive. One of the reasons gsf is so unpopular is the brutal learning curve, and that's exactly what would happen to pvp too if warzones were the only place to practice.

[Mewmaker]

I’m not suggesting that WZs be the only place to practice, I’m dying that is what it is like now. For the tutorial level, I suggest they make an ai “player” and have u face them, with choices on what class and spec u want to face.

 

 

Also, I agree with u. The gsf tutorial is crap.