Please bring back chapters for story content rather than flashpoints

[Ciarayn]

I really enjoyed the chapters for story content, and I really dislike the flashpoints for story content. Please bring back the chapter format for story releases instead of flashpoints. The chapters already have mechanics built in such as being able to replay them and being able to leave and then come back and pick up where you left off (rather than having to restart). Also, they are made for story content, and so it worked much better in chapters. In a couple of the flashpoints story felt like an afterthought. This is disappointing as it is the only story content we are getting other than 2-minute companion returns.

 

Additionally, please have at least 4 chapters released per a year. GW2 released 4 chapters in 2017 (and 2018 seems to be similar), and each comes with a map. GW2 releases these for free (no monthly subscription), so I would think with a subscription SWTOR could release at least that amount but with higher quality. This is in addition to expansions.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Seconding this.

 

1. Flashpoints do not allow players to stop and take a break. This is important.

2. Many of the recent flashpoint bosses have mechanics that seem more intended for Ops; not for story players. Please keep in mind that there are many play styles. I don't play Ops and I don't want to contend with an Ops boss or something with 1 million HP like the non-nerfed Copero bosses had.

3. The recent flashpoints don't even allow you to repeat the cut scenes, the way the old ones did.

4. If there were substantial cut scenes *between* the flashpoints like they did with Forged Alliances it might be one thing. But getting two minutes of non-repeatable story followed by an unenjoyable hour-long flashpoint doesn't work so well.

[Paulsutherland]

Thirding this. (+1)

[Cowoline]

Completely agree! I want the chapters too.

 

It's fine that they make an expansion like SOR, but it would be nice to divide it into chapters that we could replay. The same goes for the new FP. I would love for them to make these repeatable as a story chapter.

 

I think, that when the devs said chapters weren't that popular, that they might have misunderstood part of the community. It wasn't that we had chapter content, it was that it was the only content we got for a while.

 

I would love for us to get chapter content, and though I loved when they came out every moth, I would love for them to continue creating chapters like every 3 months for example.

 

In the end, though, what I would really like to see is that the story we do get is going to be repeatable.

[RikuvonDrake]

Yes, bring back the story approach that made the game lose the largest amount of regular players two expansions in a row! /s

 

Nah, flashpoints are the way to go for future game content as well as most story, you can still easily do it solo even if you are a new player (due to support droid) and it enables different levels of gameplay like two variants of multiplayer content. With new schematics and items, Devs have an easy time with both adding loot that incentives players and they have themselves commented that flashpoints are easier from a developer perspective to ensure replayability, while chapters, while still being repeatable, never resulted in much.

[DuchessKristania]

So, I watched the interview by Vullk and what I heard them say was that they were going to do future story more like SoR than KotXX. SoR was my favorite expansion, and I like that it was a middle ground between chapters and the current story with fps model.

 

I liked the story heavy element of chapters, but I didn't like how it took me out of the broader game and auto chose my companions. I'd much prefer the middle ground that SoR, and (even though I hate it) Hutt Cartel were.

[DWho]

Yes, bring back the story approach that made the game lose the largest amount of regular players two expansions in a row! /s

 

This is a false statement that keeps getting repeated as fact. The only reason they "lost" the most players was that they brought in the most players to start with. Financially both were big boons to the game. The issue was that the players that joined for those two expansions were only interested in story so they left once they had consumed it. For several months though, they paid subs. There has been a steady decline of players since 5.1 which was a focus on group content. Can we then say that group content is driving players away from the game?

[casirabit]

If they do it like SoR than the chapters it may actually be better as on Rishi there were only about 2 flashpoints that were part of the story. Most of it was like our class stories, where you had one mission and went to do something and then returned and then went out again. In this way if you want to take a break or stop and do something else you can. I actually thought the way they had SOR was actually better.

[Cowoline]

Yes, bring back the story approach that made the game lose the largest amount of regular players two expansions in a row! /s

 

Actually they had a lot more people stay active with their subscriptions and people kept that description in order to get the HK chapter. The problem was not the chapter approach, but that they did not also create enough group content.

 

Also, making a new expansion like SOR doesn't rule out the chapters. It just requires that you make the story content repeatable. This has no effect on the group content, but is simply an added bonus to us who enjoy the story.

[Cowoline]

If they do it like SoR than the chapters it may actually be better as on Rishi there were only about 2 flashpoints that were part of the story. Most of it was like our class stories, where you had one mission and went to do something and then returned and then went out again. In this way if you want to take a break or stop and do something else you can. I actually thought the way they had SOR was actually better.

 

I loved SOR and I am fine with them making this kind of expansion. The only thing I would really like, is for the story content to be repeatable.

[JennyFlynn]

I would much prefer a Forged Alliances/Shadows of Revan structure than Chapters. It was a combination of flashpoints, of step-by-step quest progressing in an explorable and wide open map and quite a lot of it could be done with another player. It was enjoyable and even offered a small side-quest chain catered to each specific class. I would embrace having something like that again as opposed to the Chapter system or FP-only system.

 

Of course, much of that also depends on which FA/SoR gameplay elements they intend to implement for the expansion.

[Cowoline]

I would much prefer a Forged Alliances/Shadows of Revan structure than Chapters. It was a combination of flashpoints, of step-by-step quest progressing in an explorable and wide open map and quite a lot of it could be done with another player. It was enjoyable and even offered a small side-quest chain catered to each specific class. I would embrace having something like that again as opposed to the Chapter system or FP-only system.

 

Of course, much of that also depends on which FA/SoR gameplay elements they intend to implement for the expansion.

 

I'm absolutely fine with the FP. I just wish they would be repeatable with the actual story. I don't understand, why you don't get the actual story stuff running FP like Umbrara or Copero solo.

 

Also, I think they should add the "must bring" companions the way they do the droid in the SOR FP, and then let you also bring the companion of your choice. Then you wouldn't get stuck with a companion like Temple, who a lot of people didn't have leveled at all.

[IoNonSoEVero]

If they do it like SoR than the chapters it may actually be better as on Rishi there were only about 2 flashpoints that were part of the story. Most of it was like our class stories, where you had one mission and went to do something and then returned and then went out again. In this way if you want to take a break or stop and do something else you can. I actually thought the way they had SOR was actually better.

 

IF they actually do it SOR-style, which was essentially planets with quests and the two FPs thrown in, it would be great. But in the roundup I read, I interpreted it to mean they were continuing with the flashpoints, which disappoints me.

 

Forged Alliances and SOR seemed as though it had enough for everyone and was the favorite installment of the game after the class stories. Substantial story content between the four Forged Alliance flashpoints. Two planets to explore. Quests and conversations. Something specific for each individual class on Rishi. At least a little companion color commentary (I know only the LIs, but it was something). No forced grouping.

 

IF they did that again I'd love it. But I fear what they meant is more insufferable flashpoints with minimal story.

[Keta]

seconding this.

 

1. Flashpoints do not allow players to stop and take a break. This is important.

2. Many of the recent flashpoint bosses have mechanics that seem more intended for ops; not for story players. Please keep in mind that there are many play styles. I don't play ops and i don't want to contend with an ops boss or something with 1 million hp like the non-nerfed copero bosses had.

3. The recent flashpoints don't even allow you to repeat the cut scenes, the way the old ones did.

4. If there were substantial cut scenes *between* the flashpoints like they did with forged alliances it might be one thing. But getting two minutes of non-repeatable story followed by an unenjoyable hour-long flashpoint doesn't work so well.

 

 

+1.

 

..

[JennyFlynn]

I'm absolutely fine with the FP. I just wish they would be repeatable with the actual story. I don't understand, why you don't get the actual story stuff running FP like Umbrara or Copero solo.

 

Also, I think they should add the "must bring" companions the way they do the droid in the SOR FP, and then let you also bring the companion of your choice. Then you wouldn't get stuck with a companion like Temple, who a lot of people didn't have leveled at all.

Oh definitely, but that was the beauty of the SoR Flashpoints (which I do believe are repeatable including any story cutscenes?). You had the combat droid and then whichever companion of your choosing. Of course there, much of the story took place outside of the FPs and that's currently not repeatable, a thing I would actually love to do but if it comes down to the replayable Chapters+non replayable FPs vs. the method of gameplay with FA/SoR, I'd rather forego the replayability for the sake of a better experience overall. An experience I would then happily 'replay' by running an army of alts through it as well.

 

I do agree the Umbara and Copero flashpoints weren't handled nearly as well and it is a downright shame they lack replayability when it comes to story.

[DWho]

Seconding this.

 

1. Flashpoints do not allow players to stop and take a break. This is important.

2. Many of the recent flashpoint bosses have mechanics that seem more intended for Ops; not for story players. Please keep in mind that there are many play styles. I don't play Ops and I don't want to contend with an Ops boss or something with 1 million HP like the non-nerfed Copero bosses had.

3. The recent flashpoints don't even allow you to repeat the cut scenes, the way the old ones did.

4. If there were substantial cut scenes *between* the flashpoints like they did with Forged Alliances it might be one thing. But getting two minutes of non-repeatable story followed by an unenjoyable hour-long flashpoint doesn't work so well.

 

1: That's how flashpoints work unfortunately

2: That is because they are designed as flashpoints first and story is bolted on later as an afterthought

3: No real reason they were not repeatable as is other than the same "story restriction" you had with KotFE/KotET (if there were actually choices made I could see it, but the railroaded design actually makes "repeats" less problematic)

4: The biggest problem with the "story" flashpoints is that there is no real story in them. No choices to be made that influence anything outside the flashpoint. I suppose this makes it easier for "story continuity" reasons but there is no story continuity if there is no story.

 

The whole flashpoint is story process is problematic overall. Do you make the flashpoint easy enough for anyone to complete, which causes the hardcore players to complain it is too easy or do you design it for hardcore players and have a situation where it is difficult or impossible for an average (or below average) player. If you are going to continue with story as flashpoints, you need to build it as story first and then add flashpoint elements not take a flashpoint and try and dumb it down and toss in some extra (or different) cutscenes. The former would work reasonably well (and was apparently how the SoR prelude flashpoints were designed), the later works not at all.

[Ciarayn]

IF they actually do it SOR-style, which was essentially planets with quests and the two FPs thrown in, it would be great. But in the roundup I read, I interpreted it to mean they were continuing with the flashpoints, which disappoints me.

 

Forged Alliances and SOR seemed as though it had enough for everyone and was the favorite installment of the game after the class stories. Substantial story content between the four Forged Alliance flashpoints. Two planets to explore. Quests and conversations. Something specific for each individual class on Rishi. At least a little companion color commentary (I know only the LIs, but it was something). No forced grouping.

 

IF they did that again I'd love it. But I fear what they meant is more insufferable flashpoints with minimal story.

Yes, I had the impression that the SOR-style content was for an expansion, which would not come for some time. I didn't want to be stuck for the next couple of years with story being only in flashpoints as it was for 2017.

[IoNonSoEVero]

 

Also, I think they should add the "must bring" companions the way they do the droid in the SOR FP, and then let you also bring the companion of your choice. Then you wouldn't get stuck with a companion like Temple, who a lot of people didn't have leveled at all.

 

I think that is another really salient point. Copero, before it was nerfed, expected players to go through platinum mobs and numerous bosses with Ops mechanics and 1 million+ HP with a companion who was Level 1 for 7 of the 8 classes. That just doesn't work.

 

In terms of the story it would have made perfect sense for the player character to elect to bring along another companion of their choice as an "Alliance escort" so they didn't just go walking off on an unfamiliar planet with a complete stranger.

[DuchessKristania]

[quote=IoNonSoEVero;9578056

 

In terms of the story it would have made perfect sense for the player character to elect to bring along another companion of their choice as an "Alliance escort" so they didn't just go walking off on an unfamiliar planet with a complete stranger.

 

Yeah, from a storytelling perspective this always bothered me. Why would any organization send their leader and figurehead into a combat situation with ONE person, and for many classes, a person who was a complete unknown. Video game storytelling often requires people to set aside basic logic in order to accept details like that.

[Rheshalea]

I'd much prefer proper quest hubs and open worlds over the kind of chapters we had in KotFEET.

Go to place A, talk to a bunch of people and get a bunch of quests. Go out in the world and kill mobs left and right, make a wrong turn and find yourself in a deadly, dangerous place. Fight for your life, maybe die or maybe find your way back to where you were supposed to be, complete the quests and either go back to place A to hand in or go forward to place B to hand in. Talk to people at place B, get a bunch of quests and go out in the world to complete them.

 

Now, IF the devs could make Chapters that actually make sense and are not stuttering along because of too many cutscenes, and IF they can incorporate sidequests and more than one storyline, and IF they can do so in settings that aren't corridor runs, then I'm all for Chapters.

 

What I do agree with OP about is to add new story content 4 or more times a year - and more group content (PvE AND PvP of all kinds) in between so everyone gets something new. Preferably all group content should be tied to the story somehow, and all PvE group content should have solo/story versions.

[Daezihang]

Flashpoints get more mileage out of the game than chapters. It progresses the plot and adds another dungeon to the roster, which is evergreen content,

 

Really anyway, is there so much difference doing a story mode 'chapter' over doing a 'flashpoint' in solo mode? They both take you to a couple of locations, advance the plot, and offer absolutely no challenge to speak of.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Daezihang

[DWho]

Flashpoints get more mileage out of the game than chapters. It progresses the plot and adds another dungeon to the roster, which is evergreen content,

 

Really anyway, is there so much difference doing a story mode 'chapter' over doing a 'flashpoint' in solo mode? They both take you to a couple of locations, advance the plot, and offer absolutely no challenge to speak of.

 

The biggest difference is that chapters can currently be replayed in their original form. Once you play the flashpoint once, all of the story elements are removed in future "playthroughs" on that character. You don't even have the option of playing the flashpoint differently like you do a chapter (though in neither case does what you do actually make a difference).

 

A chapter would also be "evergreen" content because there is nothing precluding a group from playing it on a higher difficulty mode.

Edited April 7, 2018 by DWho

[Ciarayn]

Really anyway, is there so much difference doing a story mode 'chapter' over doing a 'flashpoint' in solo mode? They both take you to a couple of locations, advance the plot, and offer absolutely no challenge to speak of.

To me there is a huge difference. The chapters had a lot of story content and were designed around story, which makes them fun to me. The flashpoints have very little story content, and, as you say, the combat isn't that great (mostly trash mobs, sometimes with high hp) in the story part at least. So, for the story flashpoints, they have taken out much of the part I play them for (story) and only left the trash mobs and such, which makes them very disappointing/boring to play for me.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Ciarayn

[Ibokagain]

Charles mentioned in the stream that Vulk did that those chapters would more than likely not happen in the future. Sounds like any new story, content will be brought out how it was for Revan expansion, I would prefer it that way and not the way of chapters like kotfe/kotet.

[Cowoline]

Charles mentioned in the stream that Vulk did that those chapters would more than likely not happen in the future. Sounds like any new story, content will be brought out how it was for Revan expansion, I would prefer it that way and not the way of cha:)pters like kotfe/kotet.

 

You're right. But I think there is some miscommunication between what a chapter is. I am all for doing a full expansion like SOR, but where it has the repeatable chapter function.

 

I think there is the potential for some middle ground here. If/when they make an expansion like SOR simply dividing it into both chapters and FP and make the story content repeatable. As much as I would love the chapter each month thing, I also realize that expansions like SOR did better in hindsight, but it should still be possible to make the story content repeatable - which I would be fine with.